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TEXAS GUN LAWS 1963

AND OSWALD

I have wondered why Oswald purchased his pistol and rifle through the mails with a magazine coupon and money order and had sent to an alias at a PO box when he could have walked into any department store, sporting goods store, gun or pawn shop in the State of Texas and obtained one immediately with cash and no identification?

David Von Pein wrote: I doubt very much that Oswald could have walked into any store in Texas and bought a gun without any record being left behind. I'm pretty sure that's Conspiracy Myth #884, and is one that Oliver Stone propped up as the truth in his 1991 fantasy film too.

BK: Dave, why does that have to be a Conspiracy Myth? Why can't it just be a legitimate question as to the motives and behavior of the guy you accuse of using the weapons to kill the President and a cop? And why do you have to bring Ollie Stone and his movie into it? How did Ollie prop this up as the truth? Why isn't it the truth? Why didn't Oswald just buy the weapons with cash in Texas and get them right away rather than go through the riggeramoral of the mail and money order and PO box alias routine?

DVP: Just recently, Jean Davison posted THIS INFORMATION, which deals with this very subject regarding tracing guns that were purchased in brick-and-mortar stores in Texas in 1963. Albert Yeargan's July 1964 affidavit (which is referenced by Davison in the post linked above) certainly indicates that RECORDS WERE KEPT of the sale of firearms at the H.L. Green Sporting Goods store in 1963.

QUOTE

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION

ON THE ASSASSINATION OF

PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS,

County of Dallas, ss:

I, Albert C. Yeargan. Jr. 1922 Mayflower Drive, Dallas, Texas, being

duly sworn say:

1. I was the Sporting Goods Department Manager at the H. L. Green

Company, 1623 Main Street, Dallas. Texas. from the Summer of 1963

until March 13, 1964. I am now employed by Smitty's Sporting Goods,

111 West Jefferson Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

2. When I worked for the H. L. Green Company, it had in stock and was

offering for sale, a large number of Italian 6.5 mm rifles that were

surpluses from World War II.

3. On November 22, 1963, FBI Agents, Secret Service Agents, and I

examined all ***sales records and receipt records*** concerning

Italian 6.5 mm rifles.

4. The records showed that the H. L. Green Company obtained its supply

of these Italian 6.5 mm rifles from the Crescent Firearms Company in

New York City.

5. A review of all of the ***records*** failed to reflect any

***record of sale*** of a 6.5 mm rifle with the Serial Number C2766.

6. ****As far as I know, the H. L. Green Company was at that time the

only Company in Dallas that handled any quantity of these Italian 6.5 mm

rifles.****

Signed the 21st day of July 1964.

(S) Albert C. Yeargan, Jr.,

ALBERT C. YEARGAN. Jr.

UNQUOTE

BK: Yes, they certainly kept sales receipts of all the items they sold, but they didn't sell any MC rifles, even though they had plenty in stock right there behind the counter, at Green's in Dallas not far from where Oswald lived and worked. They have no records of selling any of them. But the question is Would they have required the purcher of a weapon to show identification? That doesn't answer that question, does it?

DVP : This whole topic is something that I very recently started thinking about more and more, and via Jean Davison's post linked above, it certainly looks to me as though Oliver Stone (and other CTers) have been peddling a myth regarding Texas gun shops, circa 1963.

BK: Gee Dave, I'm glad somebody else is wondering the same thing I am, especially Jean, whose sharp mind, clear reason and knowledge of the case should help us get to the bottom of it. But whydo you have to keep bringing Ollie Stone into it, and "other Cters? And what is the myth regarding Texas gun shops, circa 1963 again? The myth that Oswald could have bought the rilfe and pistol over the counter in Dallas with cash without having to show his Oswald or Hidell ID?

DVP: I first brought up this topic just last month in fact, in this post (excerpted below):

"I'd like to know if conspiracists are right when they say that

Oswald could have walked into any gun shop or department store in

Texas in 1963 and bought a gun that could never be traced?

"No paperwork was required at a gun shop in Texas in '63? No

signature from the purchaser? Nothing? Just grab the gun and run?

"I'm not saying that perhaps that wasn't how it worked in Texas

gun stores, circa 1963, but I'm just wondering if it really was that

cut-&-dried--even back in '63? I've never really ever seen that

confirmed anywhere (that I can think of).

Could that be just another of the many conspiracy myths that

we've been saddled with since the JFK assassination--with Oliver Stone giving it a handy push in his blockbuster movie too? I just wonder.

BK: Dave, can't you just leave Ollie out of this? How does he keep fitting in here? You have Olliver Stone on the brain.

"~~Thinking about the "Benavides' Brother" myth that was

destroyed recently, with Domingo's brother really being killed in

1965, not 1964~~" -- DVP; July 21, 2010

Once again I ask, what's the evidence that a rifle could've been

bought in Dallas "with no records"? And again, here's an affidavit

from a gun dealer in Dallas that I posted in another thread, with my

emphasis this time:

BK: Well, as the guy from Green's said, they do keep sales receipts, so there would have been a record of the sale, but Oswald wouldn't have had to show his ID, unless maybe the salesperson thought he was underage.

Fifteen years later, AFTER federal gun control laws were enacted, John Hinckley bought the gun he used to shoot the President at a pawn shop in Dallas within walking distance of Dealey Plaza, just days after he had been arrested in Tennessee for having weapons without a permit when Jimmy Carter was in town. Now if Hinkley could do that in 1980, don't you think Oswald could have done it in 1963? Why didn't he? That's the question.

And does anyone have any idea what the late George M. Evica on this? It's not mentioned in his last book Arogance. - BK

Here's the laws for today:

What is the waiting period for a rifle, handgun, or shotgun?

Texas has no waiting period for rifles, handguns, or shotguns. You can also see laws specific to Texas by clicking here.

How Do I go about getting an assault rifle?

First, you determine what weapon you would like. Assuming

it is not classified as a Title 1 or 2 (Class 3 regulated), then you

can get it the same day. You will be subjected to a background

check, and as long as it comes back clear, you can take your

rifle with you…..

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search

q=cache:4ZOWh2keBEEJ:www.texasgunstore.com/education.html+Texas+Gun+Sales+Laws+1963&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us">http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

In 1963, another executive vice-president of the same gun group told Senator Chris [bK: Sic Chris' father Thomas] Dodd (D-CT) that, "I do not deny you have a problem with mail-order guns, Senator. We want to do everything we can to help you. We will support any reasonable type of legislation to beat that type of business because it is unconscionable." (3) Five years later, the Gun Control Act of 1968 was enacted.

The Development of Gun Control Legislation in the 1960s

A highly controversial bill that precipitated emotional debate and ferocious political battles traveled quite a convoluted path prior to its ultimate approval by Congress. It started down its torturous road in 1963 when Senator Thomas J. Dodd, Democrat from Connecticut, championed legislation geared specifically at tightening restrictions on the sale of mail-order handguns. After President Kennedy was murdered with a military-style rifle obtained through the mail, Senator Dodd extended the reach of the legislation to include "long guns," including rifles and shotguns. The legislation met an early demise when it was held up in the Commerce Committee and not allowed out for a vote on the Senate floor……

.

In 1963, as head of the Senate's Juvenile Delinquency Subcommittee, Senator Thomas Dodd of Connecticut was experimenting with ordering arms from mail order houses in an attempt to gather information allowing Congress to stem unregulated traffic. Senator Dodd instituted the program on behalf of Colt and other small firearms producers in Connecticut who complained of foreign imports. Oswald might have participated in this program. Dodd, a former FBI agent and long-time J. Edgar Hoover loyalist, was also a leading member of the Cuba Lobby (which grew out of the right-wing, red-hunting, China Lobby) through which he was in touch with some of the same Cuban-exile mercenaries as Oswald. He was also investigating the FPCC in which Oswald may have been an infiltrator.

According to a standard textbook by criminologist Charles O'Hara, we can see how Oswald, working in a legitimate undercover capacity for Dodd, could have easily been manipulated into simultaneous conspiracies involving a Mannlicher-Carcano: "In the investigation of subversive activities and systematic thefts undercover operations are almost indispensable. / Undercover work is most successfully used when there is knowledge that certain persons are engaged in criminal activity, but proof which may be used as evidence is lacking...The effective undercover agent is, perhaps, the only means of obtaining detailed information concerning a subversive group or organization."

Two of the gun mail-order houses Dodd's subcommittee was investigating were the ones from which Oswald allegedly ordered his Smith and Wesson .38 revolver (Seaport Traders of Los Angeles) and his Mannlicher-Carcano carbine (Klein's of Chicago). Oswald ordered his pistol two days before Dodd's subcommittee began hearings on the matter on January 29, 1963. The subcommittee's sample statistics later showed a purchase in Texas made from Seaport Traders. One of the groups being investigated for firearm purchases was one whose members Oswald had in his address book, the American Nazi Party. One of the investigators looking into interstate firearms sales at this time was Manuel Pena, the Los Angeles police lieutenant who was later one of the pivotal officers investigating Robert Kennedy's assassination. It was Pena who traced Oswald's telescopic sight to a California gun shop. And one of the primary culprits, robbing domestic manufacturers of profits, was the Mannlicher-Carcano.

On the day Kennedy was assassinated, Dodd considered the tragedy a personal victory, bragging about his friendship with the "new" administration, grieving only over "the damage he [Kennedy] did to us in three years." But we still await author George Michael Evica's proof that, "Beyond speculation...I have learned that according to two unimpeachable sources, Senator Thomas Dodd indeed caused at least one Mannlicher Carcano to be ordered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald (or in the name of 'Alek Hidell') sometime in 1963."

After the assassination, Dodd, using CIA sources, helped the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee publish a story that Oswald had been trained at a KGB assassination school in Minsk. At the time, Dodd was on the payroll of the American Security Council, "the leading public group campaigning to use U.S. military force to oust Castro from Cuba, and to escalate the war in Vietnam."

'The NRA supported the original 'Dodd Bill' to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and to legally disqualified from possessing a handgun." (P.22)

Ted Kennedy:

36. In the fall of 1980, John W. Hinkley, Jr., was arrested in Nashville, Tennessee for illegal possession of three handguns on a day when President Carter was to make a political appearance there. Hinkley was taken to the Nashville-Davidson County Jail where he was booked and released 35 minutes later after paying a fine of $50.00 and $12.50 in court costs. Four days later, Hinkley bought a pair of .22 caliber revolvers in a Dallas, Texas pawn shop for $47.00 each. On March 30, 1981, Hinkley used one of those guns to shoot President Reagan.

Ironically, the Dallas pawn shop where Hinkley purchased the gun used on March 30, 1981, is located approximately one mile from the spot where my brother, John F. Kennedy, was assassinated. (The pawn shop, Rocky's Pawn Shop, has a sign over its front door reading, "Guns don't cause crime any more than flies cause garbage.")

Thomas J. Dodd and Lyndon B. Johnson

The Senator was particularly close to Lyndon B. Johnson and was one of the first to support Johnson for the Presidency in 1960.

Edited by William Kelly
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There was (no doubt not the only) a ''backyard'' store in Alabama where you got what you wanted, no qs, no records. Birdsong of the M.H.P. was familiar with it and docs indicate they used it themselves (in MSC files)

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Thank you, Bill.

Saved me the trouble. The decibel kid and Jean have read into Yeagun's statement for more than what it says. Sales receipts alone say nothing of who bought what.

As for the Dodd committee.... it may be of interest that the cop (Manny Pena) who led the FBI to discover the origin of the scope, had been an investigator for Dodd... he also later worked on the RFK case, causing vital leads to be cut off.

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Guest Tom Scully

I spent some time searching last last night for info about gun shows in Texas. Hand guns, rifles, and ammo could be purchased with no questions asked and no record keeping. Bob Norman had promoted them in Ft. Worth in the late 1960's to the 90's. No newspaper articles covered this angle. They report on the "gun show loophole" and on the Oswald influence on tightening up the mail order regs, but from the day of the assassination, forward, newspaper and book media do not question why Oswald did not take advantage of local gun shows.

I guess reporting that he opted instead to make two mail order purchases would tend to make the official purchases look more like straw purchases.

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Good info, Bill Kelly. Thanks.

I have a correction to make. I said that the Guy from Green's said that their records indicated that no MC rifles were sold, even thouth they had a large number in stock and had obtained them from the same New York distributer that Oswald's rifle came from.

On second reading, it appears that the Guy from Green's actually said that the records indicate they didn't sell a MC with the serial number of Oswald's rifle, so that means they could have sold some, and they must have kept track of the serial numbers of the ones they sold if they knew that they didn't sell the one with serial number of Oswald's rifle.

So they DID keep track of not only sales but serial numbers, but didn't bother to get the name of the person they were selling the weapon to as long as they were 18 years old.

Now come on Dave, you should have caught that. I'm sure Jean did, so now that's corrected.

Now I'm wondering about the ammo. Did Green's or anybody keep track of ammo they sold and to who they sold it to?

And Oswald's guns aren't the only ones in evidence. There's also the guns Ruby bought and sent to McWillie in Cuba, and the pistol he used to kill Oswald, which he obtained from a Dallas cop - Joe Cody, who's pals with Campisis, Marcellos and all the right coppers.

BK

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like Col Birdsong which inevitably leads to Walkers camp

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Okay, I wanted to know where that one article came from that I quoted earlier that included this:

"...But we still await author George Michael Evica's proof that, "Beyond speculation...I have learned that according to two unimpeachable sources, Senator Thomas Dodd indeed caused at least one Mannlicher Carcano to be ordered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald (or in the name of 'Alek Hidell') sometime in 1963."

While I found it first here:

http://www.famoustexans.com/leeharveyoswald.htm.

I think the same article can be found here, and it stems originally from Richard Bartholomew's article and I suspect Richard is the author of that, though I am trying to get to the root of what GME knew and what he knows about Oswald and Sen. Thomas Dodd (D. Conn.).

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/11th_issue

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ru7-dGA73G0J:www.famoustexans.com/leeharveyoswald.htm+Texas+Gun+Sales+Laws+1963&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us.

In 1963, as head of the Senate's Juvenile Delinquency Subcommittee, Senator Thomas Dodd of Connecticut was experimenting with ordering arms from mail order houses in an attempt to gather information allowing Congress to stem unregulated traffic. Senator Dodd instituted the program on behalf of Colt and other small firearms producers in Connecticut who complained of foreign imports. Oswald might have participated in this program. Dodd, a former FBI agent and long-time J. Edgar Hoover loyalist, was also a leading member of the Cuba Lobby (which grew out of the right-wing, red-hunting, China Lobby) through which he was in touch with some of the same Cuban-exile mercenaries as Oswald. He was also investigating the FPCC in which Oswald may have been an infiltrator.

According to a standard textbook by criminologist Charles O'Hara, we can see how Oswald, working in a legitimate undercover capacity for Dodd, could have easily been manipulated into simultaneous conspiracies involving a Mannlicher-Carcano: "In the investigation of subversive activities and systematic thefts undercover operations are almost indispensable. / Undercover work is most successfully used when there is knowledge that certain persons are engaged in criminal activity, but proof which may be used as evidence is lacking...The effective undercover agent is, perhaps, the only means of obtaining detailed information concerning a subversive group or organization."

Two of the gun mail-order houses Dodd's subcommittee was investigating were the ones from which Oswald allegedly ordered his Smith and Wesson .38 revolver (Seaport Traders of Los Angeles) and his Mannlicher-Carcano carbine (Klein's of Chicago). Oswald ordered his pistol two days before Dodd's subcommittee began hearings on the matter on January 29, 1963. The subcommittee's sample statistics later showed a purchase in Texas made from Seaport Traders. One of the groups being investigated for firearm purchases was one whose members Oswald had in his address book, the American Nazi Party. One of the investigators looking into interstate firearms sales at this time was Manuel Pena, the Los Angeles police lieutenant who was later one of the pivotal officers investigating Robert Kennedy's assassination. It was Pena who traced Oswald's telescopic sight to a California gun shop. And one of the primary culprits, robbing domestic manufacturers of profits, was the Mannlicher-Carcano.

On the day Kennedy was assassinated, Dodd considered the tragedy a personal victory, bragging about his friendship with the "new" administration, grieving only over "the damage he [Kennedy] did to us in three years." But we still await author George Michael Evica's proof that, "Beyond speculation...I have learned that according to two unimpeachable sources, Senator Thomas Dodd indeed caused at least one Mannlicher Carcano to be ordered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald (or in the name of 'Alek Hidell') sometime in 1963."

Then there's this interesting tidbit from Assassination Chronicles:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/gtds_3.html - N_166_

An additional twist to the ordering of the Mannlicher-Carcano is being investigated by Assassination Chronicles senior editor George Michael Evica In January of 1963, Senator Thomas Dodd held committee hearings on the unrestricted delivery of weapons through the U.S. mail. Dodd was interested in the unregulated traffic of Italian Mannlicher-Carcanos as well as the company that Oswald supposedly purchased his rifle, Klein's of Chicago. Evia writes that he has learned from two unimpeachable sources that Dodd "caused at least one Mannlicher-Carcano to be ordered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald ... " or in the name of Hidell sometime in 1963. "Whether that rifle was ordered before November 22nd, 1963, ... a left-wing former Marine defector buying mail-order weapons to support concretely Senator Dodd's gun control position, or ordered immediately after the JFK assassination to make the same point (but even more chillingly), the same post-assassination effect was apparently achieved." [14] In the summer of 1963, Dodd had presided over a Senate Internal Securitysubcommittee investigation of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Oswald was the only member of the New Orleans branch. In 1963, Dodd called the Fair Play for Cuba Committee a chief public relations instrument for Castro.

So when Dodd wanted to ban handguns ordered by mail, Oswald decides to order a handgun by mail, and when Dodd decides to investigate the FPCC, Oswald joins the FPCC. Is there a pattern here? - BK

“Thomas Dodd and Lee Harvey Oswald”

http://ronrosenbaumwriter.wordpress.com/2008

By George Michael Evica (from “Agent LHO,” a chapter in a work in progress, The Iron Sights)

Lee Harvey Oswald, a member of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee, made contact with a group of anti-Castro individuals and organizations, most of whom Carlos Bringuier (an FBI informant) was either working with or knew well. Oswald’s actions and Bringuier’s assessment of those actions suggest an attempt by Oswald, a self proclaimed Marxist and one-time defector to the Soviet Union, to penetrate the New Orleans anti-Castro movement on behalf of some yet to be identified U.S. government group.

Bringuier reportedly informed his conservative associates about Oswald, including Edward Butler, a political propagandist for the local anti-Castroites. Butler, with U.S. intelligence links, worked at radio station WDSU in New Orleans. While distributing leaflets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, Oswald was arrested, with media coverage in excess of the event’s importance, after a “fight” which might have been staged with Butler’s friend, Carlos Bringuier, the former media secretary of the CIA supported Cuban Revolutionary Council in New Orleans. (2)

Oswald’s subsequent trial was covered (again, beyond even its local significance) by WDSU-TV; and his second leaflet distribution, five days later, was also covered by WDSU-TV. This series of media events set up still another: Bringuier and Oswald “debated” on WDSU with Butler as “host.” Butler “exposed” Oswald as a defector to the Soviet Union recently returned to the United States, and the radio material was transformed into a so-called “truth tape” for the intelligence associated Information Council of the Americas: INCA (whose hierarchy included New Orleans individuals with powerful Organized Crime connections). Under pressure from this publicity and other negative news coverage and harassed by government agencies and Congressional committees, the national Fair Play for Cuba Committee dissolved itself. (3)

Was this result precisely the object of one of Oswald’s covert jobs? (4)

Oswald as a government provocateur and agent in both New Orleans and Dallas can be most accurately defined by examining the richly-varied activities of Connecticut Senator Thomas Dodd.

Graduating from Yale Law School in 1933, Thomas Dodd was asked by Roosevelt’s Attorney General to visit J. Edgar Hoover in Washington. Carrying heavy political recommendations, Dodd impressed the FBI boss, who hired him as an FBI special agent. Assigned to St. Paul, Minnesota, Dodd reportedly was an active member of the elite Bureau team that attacked Dillinger’s Little Bohemia roadhouse in Wisconsin.(5)

After only a year in the FBI, however, Dodd resigned, going home to develop a powerful political base in Connecticut.(6)

Deeply involved in youth programs and social welfare activities, Dodd was evaluated for both state and national offices. But in 1938, the U.S. Attorney General appointed Dodd his special assistant, and when a new civil rights section was organized in the Justice Department, Dodd became one of its earliest agents, successfully fighting crooked cops and corrupt sheriffs in the South in support of persecuted Afro Americans.(7)

The threat of war brought significant changes to the Justice Department: Dodd entered counterespionage. Not much is known of this early Dodd entry into U.S. intelligence work, but Dodd’s more public role as a key prosecutor of Nazi spies and war-effort profit mongers brought him deserved fame. His greatest triumph, however, was his work as a member of the American Nuremberg team, part of the four-power group trying Nazi war criminals. Dodd became the tribunal’s executive trial counsel, its second-most powerful position. According to all historical accounts the most important member of the U.S. Nuremberg effort, Thomas Dodd became an international hero. 8

Years in both national and state political arenas developing a reputation as a fierce anti-Communist and stalker of labor racketeers (embodied in Jimmy Hoffa), Dodd was eventually elected a U.S. Senator, joining the Senate in January, 1959. He swiftly became a major D.C. power player. (9)

Dodd was acting chair of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, where his outspoken anti-Communism brought him in close contact with :

1. conservative members of the U.S. intelligence community;

2. highly vocal members of both the China and Cuba Lobbies, and

3. Anti-Communist defectors, informers, and double agents, domestic and foreign. Dodd also chaired the Senate Juvenile Delinquency Subcommittee (called popularly the “Dodd Committee”); in that role, he battled the evil he and his staffers found on television and built a national reputation. (10)

But two other areas of political concern brought Thomas Dodd directly into the territory of the JFK assassination: “…as a crusading foe of narcotics traffickers…[and] as the leader of a national effort to control the indiscriminate interstate sale of firearms.” (11)

Just four months before the JFK assassination, Senator Dodd had presided over a Senate Internal Security subcommittee investigation of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (to which, of course, Oswald belonged), calling it “…the chief public relations instrument of the Castro network in the United States.” (12)

Dodd had taken testimony from several important Castro defectors, including Frank Sturgis’ friend, Pedro Diaz Lanz (Sturgis himself later admitted to having intelligence connections to the Internal Security subcommittee). According to an earlier FBI report on the FPCC, the proCastro group had been “…heavily infiltrated by [both] the Communist party and the Socialist Workers party.” The House UnAmerican Activities Committee made identical findings. (13)

A curious combination: Stalinist Communists and anti-Stalinist Trotskyites burrowing into a pro-Castro organization. While Lee Harvey Oswald was in the custody of the Dallas police and still alive on November 23rd, 1963, news reports on the FPCC stated that it had been “…the subject of a series of investigations by Congressional committees [including those of Senator Thomas Dodd] and the Justice Department over the last three years [1961-1963].” (14)

The apparently contradictory political acts of Lee Harvey Oswald, therefore, make logical sense measured against these Dodd/Internal Security/FBI materials. Oswald had, in fact, contacted

1. the Fair Play for Cuba Committee;

2. the (anti- Communist) Socialist Workers Party, and

3. the (anti-Socialist Workers) Communist Party.

Oswald could not have set up a more consistent pattern had he been working (whether directly or indirectly) for Dodd’s Senate Internal Security subcommittee.(15)

Why was Lee Harvey Oswald, dishonorably discharged from the U.S. Marines as a known defector to the Soviet Union, reading rifle magazines at Alba’s Garage in New Orleans? And why was he collecting coupons for mail-order weapons?(16)

The Dodd connection was the answer.

Senator Thomas Dodd commanded the Senate’s Juvenile Delinquency subcommittee and its interest in “gun control,” specifically mail-order weapons control. Beginning in January, 1963, Dodd held committee hearings on the unrestricted delivery of weapons through the U.S. mails. One of the companies Dodd was interested in was Klein’s of Chicago, and one of the weapons about whose unregulated traffic the Senate in 1963 was agitated was the Italian Mannlicher Carcano. “Hidell,” of course, allegedly ordered a Mannlicher Carcano from Klein’s of Chicago, reportedly found in the Texas School Book Depository on November 22nd, 1963, becoming a major part of the FBI/Warren Commission lone-assassin theory in the JFK killing. (17)

Seaport Traders of California was still another mail-order weapons’ distributor the Dodd Committee was examining, the very company from which “Hidell” ordered the revolver reported to have been used in the Tippet murder on November 22nd, 1963.(18)

A “Communist,” pro-Castro, Fair Play for Cuba Committee member with ties to both the Communist and Social Workers parties had been able to order at least two lethal weapons (both of great concern to the U.S. Congress) apparently under a fake name (“Hidell”) through the United States mail. Was someone associated with the Dodd Committee trying to connect a mortal threat to the president with the committee’s anti-weapons work?

A series of incidents involving the son of a Dodd friend who was hired as a Dodd staff investigator strongly suggests precisely that conclusion. Reportedly investigating juvenile delinquency on the U.S. Mexican border, the young sleuth created a major disturbance at the living quarters of a local stripper. Mexican police had to break into a locked bathroom to apprehend the Dodd investigator, found packing a hidden revolver. Dodd had been informed that the FBI reported this same Dodd staffer had been taken into custody wearing a weapon and impersonating a law officer. (19)

But the most serious incident featuring the young man occurred exactly at the time Dodd was writing his mail-order weapons legislation. The troublesome investigator had been apprehended attempting to transport three weapons and an enormous amount of ammunition to Hyannisport, Massachusetts, a deadly combination.(20)

What made the incident so ominous? President John F. Kennedy was at Hyannisport for the weekend.(21)

A young man associated with a committee inquiring into youthful criminal offenders and the transportation of weapons had been involved in a strange incident in Mexico, had impersonated a law officer, and had attempted to send lethal weapons to the same town where the president was visiting: weapons, the Dodd Committee, and a possible threat to President John F. Kennedy.

Did some of Thomas Dodd’s allies, people in the State Department’s Office of Security (Otto Otepka, for example), or in the Justice Department (Hoover’s FBI, for example), or in the Treasury Department (in its Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Division or in its Bureau of Narcotics), direct Lee Harvey Oswald (with a “delinquency record”) to contact two splinters of the American Left; “join” a pro-Castro committee allegedly infiltrated by both splinters; then order a rifle and a pistol through the mails under an assumed name, proving just how dangerous the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and its outlaw members were?

If Lee Harvey Oswald was indeed being used by someone associated with the Dodd Committee as a double agent to infiltrate various “subversive” groups and, at the same time, order weapons to illustrate Dodd’s mail-order thesis, and if those manipulators of Oswald/”Hidell” were U.S. intelligence agents or assets, how did they have access to the Dodd Committee?

As a member of the Judiciary Committee, Dodd had a passkey to Justice Department materials and agents. Senator Dodd himself was a staunch defender of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, and “…the FBI…made itself so much at home in Dodd’s [senate] office that staff members joked about assigning the Bureau a desk.” (22)

The Senator was so well known as an anti-narcotics crusader he was one of the few Congressional participants in Kennedy’s national anti-narcotics conference. In his role as a scourge of drug traffickers, Dodd was in direct contact with the conservative Federal Bureau of Narcotics and its anti-Communist agents. As acting chairperson of the Internal Security Subcommittee, Dodd was able to call on his connections to such characters as Frank Sturgis, Pedro Diaz Lanz, J.G. Sourwine, and Paul Bethal, just a few of the many intelligence associated people linking Dodd to a small army of spies and counterspies. And, of course, his acting Internal Security chairmanship “…gave him access to the security and loyalty files maintained by both his own subcommittee and the House UnAmerican Activities Committee, as well as the raw [report] files…provided [to Dodd and his staff] by the FBI on request.”(23)

But access, of course, was a two way street: members of U.S. intelligence were also able to utilize Dodd’s Senate staff and his committee files, files containing material on both the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and mail order weapons.

Strong circumstantial evidence supports the conclusion that Senator Thomas Dodd (or someone close to Dodd with access to his Committee files) ordered weapons in the name of either Oswald or “Hidell.”

On Monday, November 25, 1963, Senator Dodd made an interesting error, if, indeed, it was an error. The Connecticut senator stated that Oswald acquired the alleged assassination rifle for $12.78. (24) But $12.78 was the price of a 40-inch Carcano, minus the scope, in November, 1963. “Hidell” (Oswald using an alias, according to the Warren Commission) purchased a Carcano (40.2 inches, again, according to the Commission) for $19.95, with scope, months earlier. But, of course, the rifle that was actually ordered, at least according to the mail-order coupon allegedly used, was a 36-inch “carbine” with scope.

Given the cross-breeding between various U.S. intelligence agents and assets and the Senator Thomas Dodd’s committee, the persuasive argument developed by the former CIA Chief of Problems Analysis, George O’ Toole, discussing the possibility that Oswald sold a rifle to Buell Wesley Frazier the morning of the assassination as part of a police-intelligence plot–for $12.78. (25)

Beyond speculation, however, I have learned that according to two unimpeachable sources, Senator Thomas Dodd indeed caused at least one Mannlicher Carcano to be ordered in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald (or in the name of “Alek Hidell”) sometime in 1963. (emphasis added by Drago)

Whether that rifle was ordered before November 22nd, 1963, as part of the scenario discussed above: a left-wing former Marine defector buying mail -order weapons to support concretely Senator Dodd’s gun control position, or ordered immediately after the JFK assassination to make the same point ((but even more chillingly), the same post-assassination effect was apparently achieved.

Did the facilitators of the JFK murder plot, with convenient entry to Senator Thomas Dodd, use the Dodd connection–the Oswald/”Hidell”/FPCC/Communist/Weapons links–to frame Lee Harvey Oswald?

And through those links, and with the certain knowledge that at least one weapon had been ordered in either Oswald’s or Hidell’s name by either Dodd himself or someone with access to Dodd, were Senator Thomas Dodd and his anti-communist allies made mute on any Dodd committee access to Lee Harvey Oswald in the aftermath of the JFK assassination?

Notes

1. Sometime between 1964 and 1967, Sylvia Meagher, author of Accessories After the Fact (New York: Vintage Books, 1976 [reprint of the 1967 edition], hereafter cited as Meagher) was apparently in contact with several (unnamed) fellow researchers (Meagher – 194) who “pointed to two related factors” suggesting reasons for “Oswald’s otherwise inexplicable mail-order purchases of firearms” (Meagher 194):

• Oswald was working for some “federal investigative agency” (Meagher 194);

• Oswald was involved with a “Senate committee” attempting “to introduce legislation curbing the mail-order sale of firearms” (Meagher 194). Developing this hypothesis in 1977, I made a note (“Oswald and gun-control”) intending to credit Meagher–and promptly forgot it. I therefore did not give Sylvia Meagher credit for her “Senate committee” and “gun control” insights. The pages in my book, And We Are All Mortal, are 252-254. I now set the record straight: Sylvia Meagher was my original source.

• The Dodd connection, developed on those same pages and extended in this article, however, was my own.

Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt (New York: Henry Holt, 1985, hereafter cited as Hurt), in his version of this Oswald story (300-302)

• gives credit to Fred Newcomb and Perry Adams (most probably two of the several researchers Meagher does not name) in their unpublished manuscript, Murder From Within (Hurt 300), but does date the latter work;

• cites one page of Meagher in a buried credit;

• echoes And We Are All Mortal throughout his discussion of Oswald and mail-order weapons (Hurt 300-302) but does not cite the latter work specifically; and

• lists the book in his bibliography as And We Are Still All Mortal, a funny error. I have adopted Hurt’s error as the title of this article.

Paul Hoch anticipated some of the analysis in the present study: “…Oswald [might have] thought he was placing the gun orders as part of [the Dodd]…effort, on the instructions of whoever he was working for.” “Echoes of Conspiracy,” 11/30/77, page 3. Hoch’s speculation was not available to me when I was drafting And We Are All Mortal.

2. For Oswald and Bringuier, see Meagher 384.

3. For Oswald’s activities as planned media events, and for Oswald and Bringuier, see Scott, Crime and Coverup (Berkeley, Cal: Westworks, 1977) 13-14, hereafter cited as Scott; see especially Scott’s citations.

4. Anthony V. Bouza, Police Intelligence (New York: AMS Press, Inc., 1976), pointed out the Fair Play for Cuba Committee’s “association” with Oswald’s name resulted in the group expiring “as its members scattered” (149).

5. Drew Pearson and Jack Anderson, The Case Against Congress (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1968) 34-35; hereafter, cited as Pearson.

6. Pearson 35.

7. Pearson 35.

8. Pearson 35-36.

9. Pearson 36-37.

10. Pearson 38-53.

11. Pearson 54, 63, 66.

12. Pearson 54.

13. Dodd, in I.F. Stone, The Haunted Fifties (New York: Random House, 1963) 348. See also Scott 8, and I.F. Stone’s Weekly, February 8th, 1960, June 27th, 1960, and April 24th, 1961.

14. Dodd, the Internal Security Subcommittee and the FPCC, in Hartford Times, November 23rd, 1963. FBI report and UnAmerican Activities Committee cited in Hartford Times, November 23rd, 1963.

15. FPCC subject of inquiries, in Hartford Times, November 23rd, 1963. See also 26 H (CE 3081-3085) 689-693.

16. See Martha Moyer, “The Rifle,” The Assassination Chronicles, Volume II, Issue 1, March 1996; cited hereafter as Moyer.

17. See, for example, Washington Post January 27th, 1963; see also Washington Post, November 26th, 1963, in 24 H (CE 2180) 852. See also Congressional Record-Senate, August 2nd, 1963, p.13945, and November 27th, 1963, pp. 22868-22869. For Congressional interest in the Mannlicher Carcano, see Henry S. Bloomgarden, The Gun (New York: Bantam, 1976 [reprint of 1975 edition]) 66-67.

18. Seaport Traders, in R 174.

19. Hurt 301.

20. Hurt 301.

21. Hurt 301.

22. Pearson 94.

23. Pearson 63.

24. 24H (CE 2180) 852.

25. The Assassination Tapes (New York: Penthouse Press, 1975) 204. For still another police-associated “$12.78″ rifle, see 24 H (CE 2145)761.

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So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

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quote name='William Kelly' date='07 August 2010 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1281198779' post='200722']

So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Maybe Jack would know. I just know that records were not being kept, particularily at gun shows, until after the 80's. With gun legialation laws. But to respond to your other question: "LHO" was following orders: told to order guns, done. There HAD to be a record.

The Lone nuts here at the Ed Forum have really taken over the joint. I note an influx with the arrival of Jim DiEugenio. Hmmmmm Maybe Jim's onto something requiring round the clock forum surveilance.

Dawn

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  • 2 weeks later...

So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Could you buy a weapon across the counter without an ID in Texas in 1963?

That is the question.

BK

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So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Could you buy a weapon across the counter without an ID in Texas in 1963?

That is the question.

BK

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16327&view=findpost&p=202217

Why do you ask, Bill?

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So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Could you buy a weapon across the counter without an ID in Texas in 1963?

That is the question.

BK

http://educationforu...ndpost&p=202217

Why do you ask, Bill?

Well,

It has been alledged by John McAdams and DVP, that it is an Ollie Stone factoid that you could buy a gun in Texas in 1963 without any identification or record of your purchase.

If so, then why did Oswald buy two weapons through the mail, using a PO box, alias and money orders, when he could have walked into any pawn or gun shop or department store in Dallas or all Texas for that matter,

and just bought the same items with cash and no paper trace of the transaction?

One Warren Commission document was dragged out that included the statement from the manager of Green's in Dallas, a store that had a surplus of Manlicher Carcano rifles and .38 revolvers, and their records showed that they did not sell any such weapons, though that indicated only that such stores kept sales receipts on items sold, and did not answer the question of whether an ID had to be presented for purchase.

BK

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So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Could you buy a weapon across the counter without an ID in Texas in 1963?

That is the question.

BK

http://educationforu...ndpost&p=202217

Why do you ask, Bill?

Well,

It has been alledged by John McAdams and DVP, that it is an Ollie Stone factoid that you could buy a gun in Texas in 1963 without any identification or record of your purchase.

If so, then why did Oswald buy two weapons through the mail, using a PO box, alias and money orders, when he could have walked into any pawn or gun shop or department store in Dallas or all Texas for that matter,

and just bought the same items with cash and no paper trace of the transaction?

One Warren Commission document was dragged out that included the statement from the manager of Green's in Dallas, a store that had a surplus of Manlicher Carcano rifles and .38 revolvers, and their records showed that they did not sell any such weapons, though that indicated only that such stores kept sales receipts on items sold, and did not answer the question of whether an ID had to be presented for purchase.

BK

I just didn't see why your question stipulated that it had to be "across the counter." If you read the thread that I linked,

even David Von Pein finally conceded that Oswald could have obtained an untraceable weapon in a variety of ways.

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So isn't there some Texas Yahoo out there who actually knows what the Texas Gun Laws were in 1963, who can tell us if there were any records kept as to the identity of the purchaser of any over the counter weapon with cash?

This would go a long way in setting up the answer to the question of why Oswald ordered the pistol and rifle through the mails with a money order and alias and a PO box with his name on it rather than just go over to Green's a few blocks away and get the same weapons for cash without any documents of the transactions other than the sales receipt?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

Could you buy a weapon across the counter without an ID in Texas in 1963?

That is the question.

BK

http://educationforu...ndpost&p=202217

Why do you ask, Bill?

Well,

It has been alledged by John McAdams and DVP, that it is an Ollie Stone factoid that you could buy a gun in Texas in 1963 without any identification or record of your purchase.

If so, then why did Oswald buy two weapons through the mail, using a PO box, alias and money orders, when he could have walked into any pawn or gun shop or department store in Dallas or all Texas for that matter,

and just bought the same items with cash and no paper trace of the transaction?

One Warren Commission document was dragged out that included the statement from the manager of Green's in Dallas, a store that had a surplus of Manlicher Carcano rifles and .38 revolvers, and their records showed that they did not sell any such weapons, though that indicated only that such stores kept sales receipts on items sold, and did not answer the question of whether an ID had to be presented for purchase.

BK

I just didn't see why your question stipulated that it had to be "across the counter." If you read the thread that I linked,

even David Von Pein finally conceded that Oswald could have obtained an untraceable weapon in a variety of ways.

Thanks Michael,

I missed that one.

BK

Journal of Legal Studies 1975

FIREARMS AND FEDERAL LAW: THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968

by Franklin E Zimring

Excerpt:

The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 was the most significant pre-1968 attempt to impose federal controls on the commerce and possession of a broad spectrum of firearms. Shepherded through the Congress by the National Rifle Association, the 1938 Act was pressed more to submerge than to further the schemes for federal handgun registration that regularly commuted from the justice Department to the Congress (and back) during the 1930s.

The 1938 Federal Firearms Act spread a thin coat of regulation over all firearms and many classes of ammunition suitable for handguns. All manufacturers, importers and dealers handling guns shipped in interstate commerce were required to obtain federal licenses ($25 for manufacturers and importers, $1 for dealers). Licensees were prohibited from knowingly shipping a firearm in interstate commerce to some felons, a fugitive from justice, a person under indictment, or anyone required to have a license under the law of the seller's state who did not have a license. All these prohibited owner classes were also forbidden to receive guns which were or had been in interstate commerce. Dealers were also required to keep records of firearms transactions. Enforcement responsibility was vested in the Secretary of the Treasury, who delegated the assignment to the Internal Revenue Service.

The apparent aims of the 1938 legislation were to create an independent federal policy banning the receipt of firearms by what must have been thought of as the criminal class of society, and to aid state and local efforts at tighter control by prohibiting transactions that would violate local laws. As a strategy to accomplish these goals, however, the Federal Firearms Act was deficient in a number of respects, and further crippled by a tradition of as less-than-Draconian enforcement by the Internal Revenue Service. One major problem was that the Act prohibited only the transfer of weapons to the prohibited classes when the transferor knew or had reasonable cause to believe his transferee was a felon, fugitive, etc. but transferors were not required to obtain positive identification of their customers or to take other steps to verify the eligibility of customers under the act. From the standpoint of prosecuting dealers for violation of the federal ban against sale to felons, the requirement of knowledge, coupled with the absence of a verification system, rendered the Act stillborn. (bold added) When local law required a license, however, the license requirement made both dealer and customer liable under federal law if they were aware of the local requirements.

Two other prominent loopholes in the 1938 Act deserve special mention because they determined the shape of the 1968 Act. First, the modest cost of a dealer's license and the fact that dealers could freely receive firearms in interstate commerce created strong incentives for private parties to receive [Page 141] dealer licenses. This in turn resulted in a large number of dealers (over 100,000 in the mid-1960s) and made any serious effort to monitor dealer compliance with the act an enormous undertaking for an Internal Revenue Service that did not, in any event, give the F.F.A. a very high priority. A second problem was that customers from states that required licenses could purchase guns in states that did not, as long as they did not give the dealer in the no-license state any reason to have knowledge of their lack of eligibility. The customer might have to lie to his supplier and would himself be subject to federal criminal penalties, but guns were readily available through this route.

Full study:

DVP Question:

Can you tell me if Ray's records from that 1/19/60 revolver purchase positively show the name of "Joe Cody" as the purchaser of the revolver that ended up in the hands of Jack Ruby on 11/24/63?

Thank you.

David V.P.

=========================================================

Date: 8/17/2010 4:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Gary Mack

To: David Von Pein

---------------------

They do not, they show only Ruby's name. I have seen a scan of the record which was sent to me by Ray's Hardware. Cody has spoken about it many times over the years including, as I recall, in the Museum's oral history.

It was quite legal and, since Joe was a cop, he could purchase the gun without having to pay sales tax, thus saving Ruby a few dollars. But Ruby was listed as the purchaser, and Federal law, from what Ray's told me, requires gun dealers to keep that record.

Ray's Hardware in Dallas still has their January 19, 1960 log showing the revolver bought by Jack Ruby (but paid for by police detective Joe Cody, one of Ruby's friends). One of the folks at Ray's told me long ago that they must keep such records.

Gary

In addition we can now say Gary Mack is wrong in his assertion above that the federal laws at the time required them - Ray's Hardware to keep such records, even though Ray's Hardware told Gary that "factoid."

It appears that Ray's just kept good records because they were just good businessmen.

Edited by William Kelly
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