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(Merged) Fetzer / Burton Apollo Hoax debate thread


Evan Burton
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Guest James H. Fetzer

Gary,

There is no problem here. If I have a five-part post (because there are five photos that illustrate the same problem),

then Evan can make a five-part response. But it is unnecessary to have FIVE SEPARATE POSTS AND EXCHANGES

in relation to the same issue. Please confirm that we are ready to start, that Evan is a participant and not moderator,

and that I can ask Jack to make the first post, which is in fact a five-part post about the moon rover photos. Thanks.

Jim

*sigh*

Whatever. Just get on with it, please.

ETA: If there are multiple images, I'll need to be allowed one post per image in some cases, to show the reasons each claim is wrong. Sometimes they can be dealt with as a group but sometimes each will need to be addressed seperately. I don't want to leave a loophole where people claim "...but you didn't show why they were all wrong..."

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Gary,

There is no problem here. If I have a five-part post (because there are five photos that illustrate the same problem),

then Evan can make a five-part response. But it is unnecessary to have FIVE SEPARATE POSTS AND EXCHANGES

in relation to the same issue. Please confirm that we are ready to start, that Evan is a participant and not moderator,

and that I can ask Jack to make the first post, which is in fact a five-part post about the moon rover photos. Thanks.

Jim

*sigh*

Whatever. Just get on with it, please.

ETA: If there are multiple images, I'll need to be allowed one post per image in some cases, to show the reasons each claim is wrong. Sometimes they can be dealt with as a group but sometimes each will need to be addressed seperately. I don't want to leave a loophole where people claim "...but you didn't show why they were all wrong..."

I have already posted ALL of the LRV photos. Burton removed them. He can move them back where they belong.

Finding them again for me is a burdensome task when they have already been posted. Burton has them somewhere.

Jack

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Guest Gary Loughran

As soon as you can Jack can you create a new topic - perhaps subtitles first Apollo debate issue so folk understand they cannot post as they would in a regular topic.

I know you have posted the Rover tracks before but would greatly appreciate your time in posting in this new topic.

Jim, Evan will retain moderator status but will not be allowed to moderate any post in these debates - that is absolutely certain, understood by Evan and critical to the debates. I would like to also say that Evan has asked that I put him on moderation for the duration of the debate - which I have rejected as this places unfair restrictions on both what he can post elsewhere and his ability to perform other, critical moderator duties.

Hope this is acceptable to everyone and I look forward to the first post.

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I'm happy with that. Sometimes the same error or condition is repeated over a series, and can be addressed in a single post. A single exchange is all that is required.

Sometimes I need to address the fault in each image (for instance it might be claimed that something cannot be seen, and I point out where it is in each image). It requires a post from me for each image, but the overall error is still the same.

In some cases - probably rare - a series of images, purporting to be the same subject, might be posted but require different explanations and possibly requiring more than one reply to a rebuttal. In those particular cases I will notify all in advance, and have Gary decide upon the conditions to imposed.

Gary,

There is no problem here. If I have a five-part post (because there are five photos that illustrate the same problem),

then Evan can make a five-part response. But it is unnecessary to have FIVE SEPARATE POSTS AND EXCHANGES

in relation to the same issue. Please confirm that we are ready to start, that Evan is a participant and not moderator,

and that I can ask Jack to make the first post, which is in fact a five-part post about the moon rover photos. Thanks.

Jim

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Guest James H. Fetzer

If the next post is not Jack's five-part moon rover sequence

(which Even should restore to this thread), then forget it.

The procrastination here has been beyond belief. I can

understand Gary's lack of interest at this point. It's now

becoming terminal. Restore those photos and let's do it!

I'm happy with that. Sometimes the same error or condition is repeated over a series, and can be addressed in a single post. A single exchange is all that is required.

Sometimes I need to address the fault in each image (for instance it might be claimed that something cannot be seen, and I point out where it is in each image). It requires a post from me for each image, but the overall error is still the same.

In some cases - probably rare - a series of images, purporting to be the same subject, might be posted but require different explanations and possibly requiring more than one reply to a rebuttal. In those particular cases I will notify all in advance, and have Gary decide upon the conditions to imposed.

Gary,

There is no problem here. If I have a five-part post (because there are five photos that illustrate the same problem),

then Evan can make a five-part response. But it is unnecessary to have FIVE SEPARATE POSTS AND EXCHANGES

in relation to the same issue. Please confirm that we are ready to start, that Evan is a participant and not moderator,

and that I can ask Jack to make the first post, which is in fact a five-part post about the moon rover photos. Thanks.

Jim

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Jim...as I recall, there were MORE THAN 5 images I posted which Burton removed.

I request that EVERY IMAGE I posted be restored. I want to make sure the BEST ones

are included, and the discussion is not just about images Burton chooses.

If necessary, I can again look up all the images and repost them. I am sure it

was more than 5. I started with 15 (too many) and I think I narrowed it down to

either 7 or 9.

I will try to find them, since Burton is stalling on restoring them.

Jack

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I found the file of LRV trackless rover photos I posted to the forum in a folder so marked.

There are SEVEN of them, not five.

Here are the file names.

17besttracklessrover

tracklessnumber1post

tracklessnumber2post

tracklessnumber4post

tracklessnuber6and7postx

tracklessnumber8post

tracklessnumber12

If Burton refuses to restore these, I can repost them. Each one has a significance. They should

be in the above order when posted.

Jack

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In the interest of readers of this "debate" I offer this quote of moderator Burton on another forum:

"It is Jack White who utters the lie, and with a total lack of logic.

He claims he admires the achievement but then desecrates and denigrates the achievements of Project Apollo.

He is a hypocrite of the first order."

Readers are entitled to know of Burton's biased agenda.

Jack

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Jack, if they are restored, they will be out of order and a couple pages back in this thread. In the interest of getting this damn show on the road, here are the images you and Jim refuse to take 5 minutes to post. This will be my only post in this thread.

Thanks for reposting the images which Burton had removed.

I apologize for the lack of NASA file numbers on the reposted studies. They are the ORIGINAL studies

from my files. When I submitted my studies to AULIS, David Percy insisted that I add file numbers

to all studies. I did that on all the ones I sent to him, but those are all TIFF files, which this forum does

not accept. After I added the numbers, I did not convert the files to JPGs. The studies ARE ON AULIS

WITH THE FILE NUMBERS. To find the file numbers, go to:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

The file numbers ARE available, so do not accuse me of not posting file numbers for them. Claiming

they are INVALID without file numbers is a silly excuse to avoid addressing them. Claiming I have

altered them because no file numbers are on them is a specious excuse. Any serious student of the

photos available KNOWS these are genuine photos. These studies were originally done for my own

edification, not for public debate.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Guest James H. Fetzer

Jack,

Please repost these in the proper order.

The title of this section ought to be:

Part I: Jack White's Apollo Photo Studies

Argument 1: The Moon Rover Photo Sequence

These photos show the moon rover but not the

tracks that it should have made, suggesting

that it was lifted into place by using a crane

rather than by making its way on its own. But

if that is the case, then these photos are fake.

Many thanks!

Jim

I found the file of LRV trackless rover photos I posted to the forum in a folder so marked.

There are SEVEN of them, not five.

Here are the file names.

17besttracklessrover

tracklessnumber1post

tracklessnumber2post

tracklessnumber4post

tracklessnuber6and7postx

tracklessnumber8post

tracklessnumber12

If Burton refuses to restore these, I can repost them. Each one has a significance. They should

be in the above order when posted.

Jack

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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In the interests of getting this thing rolling, here are the image numbers and links to the images Jack used in his original studies. Gary, feel free to move this to the other thread if you deem it appropriate.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-023483100%201283279937_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS17-137-20979

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-095921600%201283279948_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS17-143-21933

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-036518400%201283279959_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS17-140-21354

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-070676600%201283279984_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS15-88-11902

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-089437100%201283280026_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS15-85-11470

Image number - AS15-85-11471

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-018472200%201283280033_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS15-85-11437

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-5621-021770500%201283280041_thumb.jpg

Image number - AS16-109-17797

I've changed the thumbnails of Jack's studies to links due to the limit on posting images, but they're pretty much in order as posted.

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