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I'd like to know if it is possible to determine if these are two different prints - possibly from the same negative - or if the one on the right is a cleaned up and enlarged photoshop version of the photo on the left?

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2010/08/steve-monis-mom-in-mc.html

The details and signifiance of the photo(s) will be explained later, but I'd like to know if it can be determined if the photos are the same, and one cleaned up and enlarged via photoshop or something similar, or if it can be shown that they are two different prints?

First, is it possible to determine such a thing, and if so, is the larger one a copy of the smaller one on the left?

Thanks,

And I'm not interested in debating any issues, I just want to know if its possible to determine such a thing.

Thanks,

BK

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I'd like to know if it is possible to determine if these are two different prints - possibly from the same negative - or if the one on the right is a cleaned up and enlarged photoshop version of the photo on the left?

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2010/08/steve-monis-mom-in-mc.html

The details and signifiance of the photo(s) will be explained later, but I'd like to know if it can be determined if the photos are the same, and one cleaned up and enlarged via photoshop or something similar, or if it can be shown that they are two different prints?

First, is it possible to determine such a thing, and if so, is the larger one a copy of the smaller one on the left?

Thanks,

And I'm not interested in debating any issues, I just want to know if its possible to determine such a thing.

Thanks,

BK

Bill...Photoshop is one of many methods the cleaned up version could be done. With sufficient analysis

your other questions might be answered. But a quick look seems to indicate the same original.

Jack

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I'd like to know if it is possible to determine if these are two different prints - possibly from the same negative - or if the one on the right is a cleaned up and enlarged photoshop version of the photo on the left?

http://jfkcountercou...-mom-in-mc.html

The details and signifiance of the photo(s) will be explained later, but I'd like to know if it can be determined if the photos are the same, and one cleaned up and enlarged via photoshop or something similar, or if it can be shown that they are two different prints?

First, is it possible to determine such a thing, and if so, is the larger one a copy of the smaller one on the left?

Thanks,

And I'm not interested in debating any issues, I just want to know if its possible to determine such a thing.

Thanks,

BK

Bill...Photoshop is one of many methods the cleaned up version could be done. With sufficient analysis

your other questions might be answered. But a quick look seems to indicate the same original.

Jack

Thanks Jack

BK

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dupe

Edited by John Dolva
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It's been ''photoshopped'', some scratch removal by replacing with averaged next neighbour perhaps, enlarged and greyscaled. The ''alterations'' are area specific leaving traces indicating the left is the original, though there are ways to apply filters to make it look so, iow the one on the right has been turned into the one on the left , though the other way around is more likely. (imo). It could also be a studio job of scratch removal then greyscaled. IOW I don't know.

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You're welcome, BK. Anytime.

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It's been ''photoshopped'', some scratch removal by replacing with averaged next neighbour perhaps, enlarged and greyscaled. The ''alterations'' are area specific leaving traces indicating the left is the original, though there are ways to apply filters to make it look so, iow the one on the right has been turned into the one on the left , though the other way around is more likely. (imo). It could also be a studio job of scratch removal then greyscaled. IOW I don't know.

John,

Are you saying it is or it is not photoshopped? I'm confused.

You say "the one on the right has been turned into the one on the left, though the other way around is more likely. It could also be a studio job of scratch removal...."

I'm asking if it is possible to tell if it has been photoshopped?

Barry showed how easy it is to do.

Can it be determined if that is what has been done?

Thanks to anyone who can answer the question,

BK

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I'm saying I think it is. The scratches and creases are still visible in the right hand one indicating a use of a filter or a pixel by pixel nearest neighbour average (of pixels) but It is also posiible that the reverse has been done, and it may be possible to do such ''cleansing'' and reprinting in a studio, and it's possible to create both. The only differences I can see is the hidind of the creases/scratches leaving a faint difference in and around just those pixels (apart from format conversion) with the rest of the pixels matching. ie the look of a repaired image using standard techniques most likely like those in software like photoshop, but it could also be done using (MS) Paint..

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I'd like to know if it is possible to determine if these are two different prints - possibly from the same negative - or if the one on the right is a cleaned up and enlarged photoshop version of the photo on the left?

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2010/08/steve-monis-mom-in-mc.html

The details and signifiance of the photo(s) will be explained later, but I'd like to know if it can be determined if the photos are the same, and one cleaned up and enlarged via photoshop or something similar, or if it can be shown that they are two different prints?

First, is it possible to determine such a thing, and if so, is the larger one a copy of the smaller one on the left?

Thanks,

And I'm not interested in debating any issues, I just want to know if its possible to determine such a thing.

Thanks,

BK

I think we are looking at two different images. The second, enlarged and repaired image shows the woman to be in a slighty different position in relation to the man. The image of the man and woman is the same in both images, but the placement has changed. Its quite subtle, but she seems to move slightly to the right in larger image, more of a rotation really, near the bottom.

Can't tell for sure given the small size of the images but if I had to make a call based on these images, I would say she was cut out and pasted back in, either in an analog darkroom or in a digital imaging program

Its quite possible that has happened in the damaged image as well, but again the samples are really too small for close inspection.

Edited by Craig Lamson
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I'd like to know if it is possible to determine if these are two different prints - possibly from the same negative - or if the one on the right is a cleaned up and enlarged photoshop version of the photo on the left?

http://jfkcountercou...-mom-in-mc.html

The details and signifiance of the photo(s) will be explained later, but I'd like to know if it can be determined if the photos are the same, and one cleaned up and enlarged via photoshop or something similar, or if it can be shown that they are two different prints?

First, is it possible to determine such a thing, and if so, is the larger one a copy of the smaller one on the left?

Thanks,

And I'm not interested in debating any issues, I just want to know if its possible to determine such a thing.

Thanks,

BK

I think we are looking at two different images. The second, enlarged and repaired image shows the woman to be in a slighty different position in relation to the man. The image of the man and woman is the same in both images, but the placement has changed. Its quite subtle, but she seems to move slightly to the right in larger image, more of a rotation really, near the bottom.

Can't tell for sure given the small size of the images but if I had to make a call based on these images, I would say she was cut out and pasted back in, either in an analog darkroom or in a digital imaging program

Its quite possible that has happened in the damaged image as well, but again the samples are really too small for close inspection.

Thanks Craig,

I'd like to get a consensus of whether it is two different prints from the same negative or an enlarged and retouched version of the smaller one.

BK

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Flattening the left creases may account for the shifts you see, Craig?

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This is a sample of a rough (forced by resource lack to be incomplete) of how such things can be determined.

Using my technique© as outlined in Missing Nix topic with expansion in other topics:

IF one places an inverted, (resized) 50 % opacity, copy of one on top of the other, then the result obeys the cancelling of colors or values when they are the same non inverted. ie, if there is no difference, the resultant image is flat grey (the resizing must be exact as well as values balanced), where there is a difference it stands out.

In this rough sample (not resized or centered exactly) that which one can see is the differences. Therefore anyone who takes the care to apply this process properly can present an answer that may be the correct one.

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