Tom Hume Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the “Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States” (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a “Petroleum Engineer” (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 “In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)” and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?ID=1297197&SessionID=WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will’s family and LBJ’s family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestarautographs.com/CATALOG(lv)_files/Presidents%20&%20First%20Ladies.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 (edited) On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Bill, I found the following and felt that it might provide a source for what you are looking for, just substitute the document relating to Fort Worth, to, hopefully, a corresponding one for Dallas and logic seemingly dictates, it would have the skinny on the full cast of characters.... See I have included a couple of paragraphs from Je Byrne's article, which you may find helpful The Hours before Dallas: A Recollection by President Kennedy's Fort Worth Advance Man By Jeb Byrne http://www.archives....last-day-1.html After the meeting with [Raymond] Buck, the Secret Service agents began to make their contacts. I knew they were busy, but it was not until years later that I read agent Duncan's "Final Survey Report" in the National Archives and found that 508 persons had participated in security at the Fort Worth stop (Records of the U.S. House of Representatives, Record Group 233, Washington, D.C.). The Fort Worth Police Department assigned 300 officers, the Carswell Air Force Base Police 80, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department 60, and the Texas State Police 5. The Secret Service, including agents who traveled with the President and those in the advance party, had 32 on hand. The Fort Worth Fire Department and the River Oaks Police Department also contributed personnel.......... ........As time went on, two more telephones were installed in my hotel room. The constant ringing of three telephones made the place resound like the inside of a campanile, so I called for assistance. Ross Wilder, on the staff of the Dallas office of the General Services Administration, the agency for which I then was a political appointee in Washington, came over to Fort Worth on November 21 and again on November 22 to help me answer the calls. END BTW: I recently had a conversation with an individual who once worked in a District Attorney's office, and he went on record as saying that it would not be particularly unusual for an entity such as the Game and Fish Agency, to be included in Police Department related affairs, sort of a, need some extra men scenario, if you will, however, that does not resolve the fact that it appears strongly there was an information blackout, if indeed there were a couple of individuals from the G&F in the Depository, immediately after the assassination. I don't blame you for being curious. I do know that when JFK was on the Midwest swing of a tour he did in early 1963, that the U. S. Forest Service was recruited into the Secret Service's Presidential Security apparatus, because of an ostensible shortage of bodies. Perhaps you are wondering why I included the paragraph on Ross Wilder. Well because he was an interesting person and a year after the assassination of JFK, he was deceased. See Below http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=20352082 Colonel Ross “Hoss” Wilder Jan. 10, 1917 Death: Jun. 6, 1964 Entered military service November, 1940 as Flying Cadet. Graduated from flying training and commissioned as Second Lieutenant in May, 1941. Was co-pilot on B-25 that sighted and sank Japanese submarine on December 24, 1941 at mouth of Columbia River. After Tokyo Raid, served as Bombardment Squadron Commander in England, North Africa, Italy , and Corsica. Returned to United States in May, 1944 and served as base commander at bases in Texas and Oklahoma. Reverted to inactive status in June, 1947. Was Regional Director of General Services Administration. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with 9 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Chinese Army, Navy, and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade. Obituary from the Williamson County Sun, 11 June 1964, Georgetown, TX. Colonel Ross Wilder, 47, Dies Of Heart Attack, Is Buried In Taylor Last rites for Col. Ross Wilder of Taylor, whose career during World War II brought him many military honors, were held in Taylor Tuesday afternoon. He died in Dallas early Saturday evening of a heart attack. He was 47 years old. Col. Wilder, a student of Southwestern University 1934-1938, was a pilot with Jimmy Doolittle as the first bombs were dropped on Tokyo in 1942, America's first strike at the Japanese homeland in the bitter conflict. Col. Wilder was born in Taylor and was the son of the late Mr. & Mrs. L. A. Wilder. He was a graduate of Taylor High School and attended Southwestern University and the University of Texas. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity and a member of the Presbyterian Church. At the time of his death, he was regional director of business affairs for the General Service Administration of the government and was a member of the regional administrative staff. He had been with GSA since 1951. He was a task force pilot in the first raid over Tokyo, flying from the aircraft carrier Hornet. He also served as a bomber pilot in the American Defense Theater, in the Mediterranean and European theaters of operation, and in the Pacific-China-India Theaters of War. He was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine clusters, and the Military Order of China among others. Surviving are: his wife, Mrs. Ross Wilder of Dallas; a daughter, Mrs. Shelby Kartenberger of Dallas; a son, Morris Wilder of Dallas; two grandchildren, Mary Louise and William Ross Kartenberger of Dallas; one sister, Mrs. Newton G. Holman of Taylor, and two nephews, Newton Ross Holman and Greg Holman of Taylor. Funeral services were held at 2.p.m. Tuesday in the Condra Memorial Chapel. The Rev. Kenneth Moore officiated with burial in Taylor City Cemetery. Doolittle flyers served as pallbearers. Family links: Parents: Leck A. Wilder (1890 - 1963) Dorothy Ross Wilder (1890 - 1957) Burial: Taylor City Cemetery Taylor Williamson County Texas, USA Plot: Third Addition, Section 25 Created by: John Christeson Record added: Jul 08, 2007 Find A Grave Memorial# 20352082 Small world, eh. This is probably the most interesting item I have come up with so far...... Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders" http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=249 Apparently this Dallas County Rescue Service deal with the City of Dallas was in effect in 1958. By the way, the following person is buried in the same cemetery, that Harry D Holmes is supposed to be buried at, if I am not mistaken. Kenneth M Holmes Sr birth May 14, 1922 death November 18, 1990 wife Norma Chupik Holmes birth May 26, 1924 http://www.findagrav...1&PIpi=26657380 Wife: Norma Chupik Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr. Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson; Dallas County Deputy Sheriff; 1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service); State of Texas Deputy Game Warden; 3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas; Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co. Member of the IOOF 32nd Degree Mason Burial: Grove Hill Memorial Park Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith Created by: Freda Record added: Oct 25, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841 Bill, I hope, at least your paying attention. Or not...... Mrs. Vaughan Dies at Age 51 DMN 3/8/1964 Corpus Christi, TX (AP) Mrs. Ben F. Vaughn, 51, a member of the University of Texas development board and the university’s Committee of 75, died here Saturday. She was the wife of a former chairman of the Texas Game and Fish Commission and a sister of Dudley T Doughtery, South Texas political figure. Mrs. Vaughn was the daughter of James T. Dougherty and Mrs. Doughherty of Beeville, Texas. That same day..... DMN Two Engineers Killed In Crash of Light Plane Clement C Cox, Jr. and Ronald G. Corder both with Ling-Timco Vaught March 8, 1964 I have noticed curious things that pops up whenever I get into this area...... Before I go into detail, I need to know something, if anyone is paying attention. The old story about J.D. Tippit and Weissman meeting Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club was allegedly to have taken place on November 14, 1963..... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=59645&relPageId=176 Was there ever a reference to a rich businessman being at this meeting.....? This is not a serious question, in case anyone is wondering. Edited November 20, 2010 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Bill, I found the following and felt that it might provide a source for what you are looking for, just substitute the document relating to Fort Worth, to, hopefully, a corresponding one for Dallas and logic seemingly dictates, it would have the skinny on the full cast of characters.... See I have included a couple of paragraphs from Je Byrne's article, which you may find helpful The Hours before Dallas: A Recollection by President Kennedy's Fort Worth Advance Man By Jeb Byrne http://www.archives....last-day-1.html After the meeting with [Raymond] Buck, the Secret Service agents began to make their contacts. I knew they were busy, but it was not until years later that I read agent Duncan's "Final Survey Report" in the National Archives and found that 508 persons had participated in security at the Fort Worth stop (Records of the U.S. House of Representatives, Record Group 233, Washington, D.C.). The Fort Worth Police Department assigned 300 officers, the Carswell Air Force Base Police 80, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department 60, and the Texas State Police 5. The Secret Service, including agents who traveled with the President and those in the advance party, had 32 on hand. The Fort Worth Fire Department and the River Oaks Police Department also contributed personnel.......... ........As time went on, two more telephones were installed in my hotel room. The constant ringing of three telephones made the place resound like the inside of a campanile, so I called for assistance. Ross Wilder, on the staff of the Dallas office of the General Services Administration, the agency for which I then was a political appointee in Washington, came over to Fort Worth on November 21 and again on November 22 to help me answer the calls. END BTW: I recently had a conversation with an individual who once worked in a District Attorney's office, and he went on record as saying that it would not be particularly unusual for an entity such as the Game and Fish Agency, to be included in Police Department related affairs, sort of a, need some extra men scenario, if you will, however, that does not resolve the fact that it appears strongly there was an information blackout, if indeed there were a couple of individuals from the G&F in the Depository, immediately after the assassination. I don't blame you for being curious. I do know that when JFK was on the Midwest swing of a tour he did in early 1963, that the U. S. Forest Service was recruited into the Secret Service's Presidential Security apparatus, because of an ostensible shortage of bodies. Perhaps you are wondering why I included the paragraph on Ross Wilder. Well because he was an interesting person and a year after the assassination of JFK, he was deceased. See Below http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=20352082 Colonel Ross “Hoss” Wilder Jan. 10, 1917 Death: Jun. 6, 1964 Entered military service November, 1940 as Flying Cadet. Graduated from flying training and commissioned as Second Lieutenant in May, 1941. Was co-pilot on B-25 that sighted and sank Japanese submarine on December 24, 1941 at mouth of Columbia River. After Tokyo Raid, served as Bombardment Squadron Commander in England, North Africa, Italy , and Corsica. Returned to United States in May, 1944 and served as base commander at bases in Texas and Oklahoma. Reverted to inactive status in June, 1947. Was Regional Director of General Services Administration. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with 9 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Chinese Army, Navy, and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade. Obituary from the Williamson County Sun, 11 June 1964, Georgetown, TX. Colonel Ross Wilder, 47, Dies Of Heart Attack, Is Buried In Taylor Last rites for Col. Ross Wilder of Taylor, whose career during World War II brought him many military honors, were held in Taylor Tuesday afternoon. He died in Dallas early Saturday evening of a heart attack. He was 47 years old. Col. Wilder, a student of Southwestern University 1934-1938, was a pilot with Jimmy Doolittle as the first bombs were dropped on Tokyo in 1942, America's first strike at the Japanese homeland in the bitter conflict. Col. Wilder was born in Taylor and was the son of the late Mr. & Mrs. L. A. Wilder. He was a graduate of Taylor High School and attended Southwestern University and the University of Texas. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity and a member of the Presbyterian Church. At the time of his death, he was regional director of business affairs for the General Service Administration of the government and was a member of the regional administrative staff. He had been with GSA since 1951. He was a task force pilot in the first raid over Tokyo, flying from the aircraft carrier Hornet. He also served as a bomber pilot in the American Defense Theater, in the Mediterranean and European theaters of operation, and in the Pacific-China-India Theaters of War. He was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine clusters, and the Military Order of China among others. Surviving are: his wife, Mrs. Ross Wilder of Dallas; a daughter, Mrs. Shelby Kartenberger of Dallas; a son, Morris Wilder of Dallas; two grandchildren, Mary Louise and William Ross Kartenberger of Dallas; one sister, Mrs. Newton G. Holman of Taylor, and two nephews, Newton Ross Holman and Greg Holman of Taylor. Funeral services were held at 2.p.m. Tuesday in the Condra Memorial Chapel. The Rev. Kenneth Moore officiated with burial in Taylor City Cemetery. Doolittle flyers served as pallbearers. Family links: Parents: Leck A. Wilder (1890 - 1963) Dorothy Ross Wilder (1890 - 1957) Burial: Taylor City Cemetery Taylor Williamson County Texas, USA Plot: Third Addition, Section 25 Created by: John Christeson Record added: Jul 08, 2007 Find A Grave Memorial# 20352082 Small world, eh. This is probably the most interesting item I have come up with so far...... Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders" http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=249 Apparently this Dallas County Rescue Service deal with the City of Dallas was in effect in 1958. By the way, the following person is buried in the same cemetery, that Harry D Holmes is supposed to be buried at, if I am not mistaken. Kenneth M Holmes Sr birth May 14, 1922 death November 18, 1990 wife Norma Chupik Holmes birth May 26, 1924 http://www.findagrav...1&PIpi=26657380 Wife: Norma Chupik Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr. Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson; Dallas County Deputy Sheriff; 1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service); State of Texas Deputy Game Warden; 3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas; Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co. Member of the IOOF 32nd Degree Mason Burial: Grove Hill Memorial Park Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith Created by: Freda Record added: Oct 25, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841 Bill, I hope, at least your paying attention. Or not...... Mrs. Vaughan Dies at Age 51 DMN 3/8/1964 Corpus Christi, TX (AP) Mrs. Ben F. Vaughn, 51, a member of the University of Texas development board and the university’s Committee of 75, died here Saturday. She was the wife of a former chairman of the Texas Game and Fish Commission and a sister of Dudley T Doughtery, South Texas political figure. Mrs. Vaughn was the daughter of James T. Dougherty and Mrs. Doughherty of Beeville, Texas. That same day..... DMN Two Engineers Killed In Crash of Light Plane Clement C Cox, Jr. and Ronald G. Corder both with Ling-Timco Vaught March 8, 1964 I have noticed curious things that pops up whenever I get into this area...... Before I go into detail, I need to know something, if anyone is paying attention. The old story about J.D. Tippit and Weissman meeting Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club was allegedly to have taken place on November 14, 1963..... http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=176 Was there ever a reference to a rich businessman being at this meeting.....? This is not a serious question, in case anyone is wondering. For the sake of posterity, it can be rightfully argued, depending upon one's assessment of information, that the above question may truly be the unanswered question of the assassination. It turns out that the oilman, as a third party to the ostensible Ruby/Tippit/Weissman meeting of November 14, 1963 was "introduced" by Dorothy Kilgallen. The quickest way to discredit this from a kill the messenger standpoint would be to attack the author of said book. But even independent of her as a source, it seems hard to prove that Jack Ruby and Dorothy did not have a few minutes of privacy, although the privacy may have been only in the physical sense; somehow it seems there was a possibility that Kilgallen and Ruby's conversation was eavesdropped, or tapped by the Dallas Police. Equally interesting Ruby, Tippit and Weissman at the Carousel Club http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5923 Excerpts from an FBI document from the National Archives (#180-10020-10469), dated March 28, 1967. The original document is a teletype and is in all caps. "Bureau has received a letter from a Mr. Lawrence Schiller, Alskog, Inc., Los Angeles, dated March Fifteen last ... Schiller has advised he is in possession of the name and location of Mark Lane's informant who allegedly furnished Lane information. He was supposedly present and overheard an alleged meeting between Jack Ruby, Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissman, On Nov. Fourteen, Sixtythree... Schiller interviewed by Los Angeles, March Twentytwo last, and indicated that Mark Lane's confidential informant is Paul Bridewell aka Phil Burns, and that Bridewell currently located somewhere in Oregon, possibly Portland or Rainier. Exact location of Bridewell is probably known to one John Sutton, who formerly was in radio business in Dallas... According to Schiller, Mark Lane learned of identity of Bridewell and info in possession of Bridewell from Theodore (Thayer) Waldo, formerly associated with Fort Worth, Texas, newspaper, "Sun Telegraph"... Waldo indicates that about a week after assassination Sutton asked to meet him at the Dallas Press Club and at that time Sutton indicated he knew a man who witnessed a meeting in the Carousel Club between Ruby, Officer J.D. Tippit, and a Bernard Weissman, but who was reluctant to come forward with this information [over one line redacted] Phil Burns said he was there, and that Jack Ruby walked by and said "You know J.D. here"......... It was Kilgallen, who on September 3, gave the first account of the story Lane had told the Warren Commission about the alleged "meeting" at the Carousel Club between Jack Ruby, J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissmann (the author of the anti-Kennedy ad that had upset Ruby on the day of the assassination), and to her it seemed interesting that Jack Ruby had never flat-out denied that such a meeting had occurred when he'd been asked about it by the Warren Commission. Kilgallen also siezed on a bizarre trivality in which the purloined Ruby testimony indicated that a mysterious "oil man" had also been linked to the meeting with Tippit and Weissman, but that Lane had never mentioned such an oil man in his WC testimony, and that therefore the original story of a Carousel Club meeting had to have been confirmed by at least one other, unknown source. Here's a toast to unknown sources, wherever you are. But here's one for the, bet you didn't know that department When Madame Nhu came to visit Texas, she had a member of her entourage listed as a security officer, he was in Dallas as recorded in the following news story DMN 10/24/1963 Boos, Pickets Roses and Flags, Greet Petite ‘Dragon Lady’ .....Dallas Police officers W. S. Biggio and H. M. Hart of the Dallas police departments special services division were on hand as well as numerous uniformed police officers..... Among the Nhu entourage was listed William Elliscue a “security officer.” According to a news story that same day Elliscue, was a former agent with the Central Intelligence Agency. See also DMN 11/24/63 Mme Nhu Sees Red Hand Robert: It was this incident, in which Robert Allen Surrey’s then 15-year old daughter Karen of 3506 Lindenwood presented Mme Nhu with a dozen red roses, an eerie foreshadowing, of the same tradition taking place when President Kennedy’s wife Jackie Kennedy disembarked from Air Force One also at Dallas, on November 22nd. “Miss Surrey said she represented the U.S.-Day Committee, the anti-United Nations organization headed by former Gen. Edwin A Walker of Dallas.” Dudley T. Dougherty, a Beeville oilman-rancher had sent Paul Reddam, [who referred to himself as an “executive in one of Dougherty’s companies”] of Saint Petersburg, Florida, to New York the previous week to invite the Nhu group to his ranch for an overnight stay. Lee Oswald was allegedly present when Edwin Walker spoke later that evening. When Ruth Paine was being questioned by Allen Dulles and then Warren Commission, member Gerald Ford, the later President asked: What prompted her, if you know, to ask about Madame Nhu? Ruth Paine: She was interested in the family. She was worried about what Madame Nhu would do. Madame Nhu and the children still in her country. She wanted to know were these children going to come out either in Paris or the United States. She was concerned and her concern for world affairs seemed to go this way, of what is this mother and children going to do. See WC Vol 2 H 490 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=38&relPageId=498 Personally, I am not embarrassed to admit, I never knew Marina asked about Madame Nhu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Bill, I found the following and felt that it might provide a source for what you are looking for, just substitute the document relating to Fort Worth, to, hopefully, a corresponding one for Dallas and logic seemingly dictates, it would have the skinny on the full cast of characters.... See I have included a couple of paragraphs from Je Byrne's article, which you may find helpful The Hours before Dallas: A Recollection by President Kennedy's Fort Worth Advance Man By Jeb Byrne http://www.archives....last-day-1.html After the meeting with [Raymond] Buck, the Secret Service agents began to make their contacts. I knew they were busy, but it was not until years later that I read agent Duncan's "Final Survey Report" in the National Archives and found that 508 persons had participated in security at the Fort Worth stop (Records of the U.S. House of Representatives, Record Group 233, Washington, D.C.). The Fort Worth Police Department assigned 300 officers, the Carswell Air Force Base Police 80, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department 60, and the Texas State Police 5. The Secret Service, including agents who traveled with the President and those in the advance party, had 32 on hand. The Fort Worth Fire Department and the River Oaks Police Department also contributed personnel.......... ........As time went on, two more telephones were installed in my hotel room. The constant ringing of three telephones made the place resound like the inside of a campanile, so I called for assistance. Ross Wilder, on the staff of the Dallas office of the General Services Administration, the agency for which I then was a political appointee in Washington, came over to Fort Worth on November 21 and again on November 22 to help me answer the calls. END BTW: I recently had a conversation with an individual who once worked in a District Attorney's office, and he went on record as saying that it would not be particularly unusual for an entity such as the Game and Fish Agency, to be included in Police Department related affairs, sort of a, need some extra men scenario, if you will, however, that does not resolve the fact that it appears strongly there was an information blackout, if indeed there were a couple of individuals from the G&F in the Depository, immediately after the assassination. I don't blame you for being curious. I do know that when JFK was on the Midwest swing of a tour he did in early 1963, that the U. S. Forest Service was recruited into the Secret Service's Presidential Security apparatus, because of an ostensible shortage of bodies. Perhaps you are wondering why I included the paragraph on Ross Wilder. Well because he was an interesting person and a year after the assassination of JFK, he was deceased. See Below http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=20352082 Colonel Ross "Hoss" Wilder Jan. 10, 1917 Death: Jun. 6, 1964 Entered military service November, 1940 as Flying Cadet. Graduated from flying training and commissioned as Second Lieutenant in May, 1941. Was co-pilot on B-25 that sighted and sank Japanese submarine on December 24, 1941 at mouth of Columbia River. After Tokyo Raid, served as Bombardment Squadron Commander in England, North Africa, Italy , and Corsica. Returned to United States in May, 1944 and served as base commander at bases in Texas and Oklahoma. Reverted to inactive status in June, 1947. Was Regional Director of General Services Administration. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with 9 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Chinese Army, Navy, and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade. Obituary from the Williamson County Sun, 11 June 1964, Georgetown, TX. Colonel Ross Wilder, 47, Dies Of Heart Attack, Is Buried In Taylor Last rites for Col. Ross Wilder of Taylor, whose career during World War II brought him many military honors, were held in Taylor Tuesday afternoon. He died in Dallas early Saturday evening of a heart attack. He was 47 years old. Col. Wilder, a student of Southwestern University 1934-1938, was a pilot with Jimmy Doolittle as the first bombs were dropped on Tokyo in 1942, America's first strike at the Japanese homeland in the bitter conflict. Col. Wilder was born in Taylor and was the son of the late Mr. & Mrs. L. A. Wilder. He was a graduate of Taylor High School and attended Southwestern University and the University of Texas. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity and a member of the Presbyterian Church. At the time of his death, he was regional director of business affairs for the General Service Administration of the government and was a member of the regional administrative staff. He had been with GSA since 1951. He was a task force pilot in the first raid over Tokyo, flying from the aircraft carrier Hornet. He also served as a bomber pilot in the American Defense Theater, in the Mediterranean and European theaters of operation, and in the Pacific-China-India Theaters of War. He was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine clusters, and the Military Order of China among others. Surviving are: his wife, Mrs. Ross Wilder of Dallas; a daughter, Mrs. Shelby Kartenberger of Dallas; a son, Morris Wilder of Dallas; two grandchildren, Mary Louise and William Ross Kartenberger of Dallas; one sister, Mrs. Newton G. Holman of Taylor, and two nephews, Newton Ross Holman and Greg Holman of Taylor. Funeral services were held at 2.p.m. Tuesday in the Condra Memorial Chapel. The Rev. Kenneth Moore officiated with burial in Taylor City Cemetery. Doolittle flyers served as pallbearers. Family links: Parents: Leck A. Wilder (1890 - 1963) Dorothy Ross Wilder (1890 - 1957) Burial: Taylor City Cemetery Taylor Williamson County Texas, USA Plot: Third Addition, Section 25 Created by: John Christeson Record added: Jul 08, 2007 Find A Grave Memorial# 20352082 Small world, eh. This is probably the most interesting item I have come up with so far...... Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders" http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=249 Apparently this Dallas County Rescue Service deal with the City of Dallas was in effect in 1958. By the way, the following person is buried in the same cemetery, that Harry D Holmes is supposed to be buried at, if I am not mistaken. Kenneth M Holmes Sr birth May 14, 1922 death November 18, 1990 wife Norma Chupik Holmes birth May 26, 1924 http://www.findagrav...1&PIpi=26657380 Wife: Norma Chupik Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr. Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson; Dallas County Deputy Sheriff; 1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service); State of Texas Deputy Game Warden; 3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas; Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co. Member of the IOOF 32nd Degree Mason Burial: Grove Hill Memorial Park Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith Created by: Freda Record added: Oct 25, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841 Bill, I hope, at least your paying attention. Or not...... Mrs. Vaughan Dies at Age 51 DMN 3/8/1964 Corpus Christi, TX (AP) Mrs. Ben F. Vaughn, 51, a member of the University of Texas development board and the university's Committee of 75, died here Saturday. She was the wife of a former chairman of the Texas Game and Fish Commission and a sister of Dudley T Doughtery, South Texas political figure. Mrs. Vaughn was the daughter of James T. Dougherty and Mrs. Doughherty of Beeville, Texas. That same day..... DMN Two Engineers Killed In Crash of Light Plane Clement C Cox, Jr. and Ronald G. Corder both with Ling-Timco Vaught March 8, 1964 I have noticed curious things that pops up whenever I get into this area...... Before I go into detail, I need to know something, if anyone is paying attention. The old story about J.D. Tippit and Weissman meeting Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club was allegedly to have taken place on November 14, 1963..... http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=176 Was there ever a reference to a rich businessman being at this meeting.....? This is not a serious question, in case anyone is wondering. For the sake of posterity, it can be rightfully argued, depending upon one's assessment of information, that the above question may truly be the unanswered question of the assassination. It turns out that the oilman, as a third party to the ostensible Ruby/Tippit/Weissman meeting of November 14, 1963 was "introduced" by Dorothy Kilgallen. The quickest way to discredit this from a kill the messenger standpoint would be to attack the author of said book. But even independent of her as a source, it seems hard to prove that Jack Ruby and Dorothy did not have a few minutes of privacy, although the privacy may have been only in the physical sense; somehow it seems there was a possibility that Kilgallen and Ruby's conversation was eavesdropped, or tapped by the Dallas Police. Equally interesting Ruby, Tippit and Weissman at the Carousel Club http://educationforu...?showtopic=5923 Excerpts from an FBI document from the National Archives (#180-10020-10469), dated March 28, 1967. The original document is a teletype and is in all caps. "Bureau has received a letter from a Mr. Lawrence Schiller, Alskog, Inc., Los Angeles, dated March Fifteen last ... Schiller has advised he is in possession of the name and location of Mark Lane's informant who allegedly furnished Lane information. He was supposedly present and overheard an alleged meeting between Jack Ruby, Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissman, On Nov. Fourteen, Sixtythree... Schiller interviewed by Los Angeles, March Twentytwo last, and indicated that Mark Lane's confidential informant is Paul Bridewell aka Phil Burns, and that Bridewell currently located somewhere in Oregon, possibly Portland or Rainier. Exact location of Bridewell is probably known to one John Sutton, who formerly was in radio business in Dallas... According to Schiller, Mark Lane learned of identity of Bridewell and info in possession of Bridewell from Theodore (Thayer) Waldo, formerly associated with Fort Worth, Texas, newspaper, "Sun Telegraph"... Waldo indicates that about a week after assassination Sutton asked to meet him at the Dallas Press Club and at that time Sutton indicated he knew a man who witnessed a meeting in the Carousel Club between Ruby, Officer J.D. Tippit, and a Bernard Weissman, but who was reluctant to come forward with this information [over one line redacted] Phil Burns said he was there, and that Jack Ruby walked by and said "You know J.D. here"......... It was Kilgallen, who on September 3, gave the first account of the story Lane had told the Warren Commission about the alleged "meeting" at the Carousel Club between Jack Ruby, J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissmann (the author of the anti-Kennedy ad that had upset Ruby on the day of the assassination), and to her it seemed interesting that Jack Ruby had never flat-out denied that such a meeting had occurred when he'd been asked about it by the Warren Commission. Kilgallen also siezed on a bizarre trivality in which the purloined Ruby testimony indicated that a mysterious "oil man" had also been linked to the meeting with Tippit and Weissman, but that Lane had never mentioned such an oil man in his WC testimony, and that therefore the original story of a Carousel Club meeting had to have been confirmed by at least one other, unknown source. Here's a toast to unknown sources, wherever you are. But here's one for the, bet you didn't know that department When Madame Nhu came to visit Texas, she had a member of her entourage listed as a security officer, he was in Dallas as recorded in the following news story DMN 10/24/1963 Boos, Pickets Roses and Flags, Greet Petite 'Dragon Lady' .....Dallas Police officers W. S. Biggio and H. M. Hart of the Dallas police departments special services division were on hand as well as numerous uniformed police officers..... Among the Nhu entourage was listed William Elliscue a "security officer." According to a news story that same day Elliscue, was a former agent with the Central Intelligence Agency. See also DMN 11/24/63 Mme Nhu Sees Red Hand Robert: It was this incident, in which Robert Allen Surrey's then 15-year old daughter Karen of 3506 Lindenwood presented Mme Nhu with a dozen red roses, an eerie foreshadowing, of the same tradition taking place when President Kennedy's wife Jackie Kennedy disembarked from Air Force One also at Dallas, on November 22nd. "Miss Surrey said she represented the U.S.-Day Committee, the anti-United Nations organization headed by former Gen. Edwin A Walker of Dallas." Dudley T. Dougherty, a Beeville oilman-rancher had sent Paul Reddam, [who referred to himself as an "executive in one of Dougherty's companies"] of Saint Petersburg, Florida, to New York the previous week to invite the Nhu group to his ranch for an overnight stay. Lee Oswald was allegedly present when Edwin Walker spoke later that evening. When Ruth Paine was being questioned by Allen Dulles and then Warren Commission, member Gerald Ford, the later President asked: What prompted her, if you know, to ask about Madame Nhu? Ruth Paine: She was interested in the family. She was worried about what Madame Nhu would do. Madame Nhu and the children still in her country. She wanted to know were these children going to come out either in Paris or the United States. She was concerned and her concern for world affairs seemed to go this way, of what is this mother and children going to do. See WC Vol 2 H 490 http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=498 Personally, I am not embarrassed to admit, I never knew Marina asked about Madame Nhu. I didn't either Robert. I following you. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Bill, I found the following and felt that it might provide a source for what you are looking for, just substitute the document relating to Fort Worth, to, hopefully, a corresponding one for Dallas and logic seemingly dictates, it would have the skinny on the full cast of characters.... See I have included a couple of paragraphs from Je Byrne's article, which you may find helpful The Hours before Dallas: A Recollection by President Kennedy's Fort Worth Advance Man By Jeb Byrne http://www.archives....last-day-1.html After the meeting with [Raymond] Buck, the Secret Service agents began to make their contacts. I knew they were busy, but it was not until years later that I read agent Duncan's "Final Survey Report" in the National Archives and found that 508 persons had participated in security at the Fort Worth stop (Records of the U.S. House of Representatives, Record Group 233, Washington, D.C.). The Fort Worth Police Department assigned 300 officers, the Carswell Air Force Base Police 80, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department 60, and the Texas State Police 5. The Secret Service, including agents who traveled with the President and those in the advance party, had 32 on hand. The Fort Worth Fire Department and the River Oaks Police Department also contributed personnel.......... ........As time went on, two more telephones were installed in my hotel room. The constant ringing of three telephones made the place resound like the inside of a campanile, so I called for assistance. Ross Wilder, on the staff of the Dallas office of the General Services Administration, the agency for which I then was a political appointee in Washington, came over to Fort Worth on November 21 and again on November 22 to help me answer the calls. END BTW: I recently had a conversation with an individual who once worked in a District Attorney's office, and he went on record as saying that it would not be particularly unusual for an entity such as the Game and Fish Agency, to be included in Police Department related affairs, sort of a, need some extra men scenario, if you will, however, that does not resolve the fact that it appears strongly there was an information blackout, if indeed there were a couple of individuals from the G&F in the Depository, immediately after the assassination. I don't blame you for being curious. I do know that when JFK was on the Midwest swing of a tour he did in early 1963, that the U. S. Forest Service was recruited into the Secret Service's Presidential Security apparatus, because of an ostensible shortage of bodies. Perhaps you are wondering why I included the paragraph on Ross Wilder. Well because he was an interesting person and a year after the assassination of JFK, he was deceased. See Below http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=20352082 Colonel Ross "Hoss" Wilder Jan. 10, 1917 Death: Jun. 6, 1964 Entered military service November, 1940 as Flying Cadet. Graduated from flying training and commissioned as Second Lieutenant in May, 1941. Was co-pilot on B-25 that sighted and sank Japanese submarine on December 24, 1941 at mouth of Columbia River. After Tokyo Raid, served as Bombardment Squadron Commander in England, North Africa, Italy , and Corsica. Returned to United States in May, 1944 and served as base commander at bases in Texas and Oklahoma. Reverted to inactive status in June, 1947. Was Regional Director of General Services Administration. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with 9 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Chinese Army, Navy, and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade. Obituary from the Williamson County Sun, 11 June 1964, Georgetown, TX. Colonel Ross Wilder, 47, Dies Of Heart Attack, Is Buried In Taylor Last rites for Col. Ross Wilder of Taylor, whose career during World War II brought him many military honors, were held in Taylor Tuesday afternoon. He died in Dallas early Saturday evening of a heart attack. He was 47 years old. Col. Wilder, a student of Southwestern University 1934-1938, was a pilot with Jimmy Doolittle as the first bombs were dropped on Tokyo in 1942, America's first strike at the Japanese homeland in the bitter conflict. Col. Wilder was born in Taylor and was the son of the late Mr. & Mrs. L. A. Wilder. He was a graduate of Taylor High School and attended Southwestern University and the University of Texas. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity and a member of the Presbyterian Church. At the time of his death, he was regional director of business affairs for the General Service Administration of the government and was a member of the regional administrative staff. He had been with GSA since 1951. He was a task force pilot in the first raid over Tokyo, flying from the aircraft carrier Hornet. He also served as a bomber pilot in the American Defense Theater, in the Mediterranean and European theaters of operation, and in the Pacific-China-India Theaters of War. He was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine clusters, and the Military Order of China among others. Surviving are: his wife, Mrs. Ross Wilder of Dallas; a daughter, Mrs. Shelby Kartenberger of Dallas; a son, Morris Wilder of Dallas; two grandchildren, Mary Louise and William Ross Kartenberger of Dallas; one sister, Mrs. Newton G. Holman of Taylor, and two nephews, Newton Ross Holman and Greg Holman of Taylor. Funeral services were held at 2.p.m. Tuesday in the Condra Memorial Chapel. The Rev. Kenneth Moore officiated with burial in Taylor City Cemetery. Doolittle flyers served as pallbearers. Family links: Parents: Leck A. Wilder (1890 - 1963) Dorothy Ross Wilder (1890 - 1957) Burial: Taylor City Cemetery Taylor Williamson County Texas, USA Plot: Third Addition, Section 25 Created by: John Christeson Record added: Jul 08, 2007 Find A Grave Memorial# 20352082 Small world, eh. This is probably the most interesting item I have come up with so far...... Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders" http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=249 Apparently this Dallas County Rescue Service deal with the City of Dallas was in effect in 1958. By the way, the following person is buried in the same cemetery, that Harry D Holmes is supposed to be buried at, if I am not mistaken. Kenneth M Holmes Sr birth May 14, 1922 death November 18, 1990 wife Norma Chupik Holmes birth May 26, 1924 http://www.findagrav...1&PIpi=26657380 Wife: Norma Chupik Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr. Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson; Dallas County Deputy Sheriff; 1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service); State of Texas Deputy Game Warden; 3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas; Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co. Member of the IOOF 32nd Degree Mason Burial: Grove Hill Memorial Park Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith Created by: Freda Record added: Oct 25, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841 Bill, I hope, at least your paying attention. Or not...... Mrs. Vaughan Dies at Age 51 DMN 3/8/1964 Corpus Christi, TX (AP) Mrs. Ben F. Vaughn, 51, a member of the University of Texas development board and the university's Committee of 75, died here Saturday. She was the wife of a former chairman of the Texas Game and Fish Commission and a sister of Dudley T Doughtery, South Texas political figure. Mrs. Vaughn was the daughter of James T. Dougherty and Mrs. Doughherty of Beeville, Texas. That same day..... DMN Two Engineers Killed In Crash of Light Plane Clement C Cox, Jr. and Ronald G. Corder both with Ling-Timco Vaught March 8, 1964 I have noticed curious things that pops up whenever I get into this area...... Before I go into detail, I need to know something, if anyone is paying attention. The old story about J.D. Tippit and Weissman meeting Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club was allegedly to have taken place on November 14, 1963..... http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=176 Was there ever a reference to a rich businessman being at this meeting.....? This is not a serious question, in case anyone is wondering. For the sake of posterity, it can be rightfully argued, depending upon one's assessment of information, that the above question may truly be the unanswered question of the assassination. It turns out that the oilman, as a third party to the ostensible Ruby/Tippit/Weissman meeting of November 14, 1963 was "introduced" by Dorothy Kilgallen. The quickest way to discredit this from a kill the messenger standpoint would be to attack the author of said book. But even independent of her as a source, it seems hard to prove that Jack Ruby and Dorothy did not have a few minutes of privacy, although the privacy may have been only in the physical sense; somehow it seems there was a possibility that Kilgallen and Ruby's conversation was eavesdropped, or tapped by the Dallas Police. Equally interesting Ruby, Tippit and Weissman at the Carousel Club http://educationforu...?showtopic=5923 Excerpts from an FBI document from the National Archives (#180-10020-10469), dated March 28, 1967. The original document is a teletype and is in all caps. "Bureau has received a letter from a Mr. Lawrence Schiller, Alskog, Inc., Los Angeles, dated March Fifteen last ... Schiller has advised he is in possession of the name and location of Mark Lane's informant who allegedly furnished Lane information. He was supposedly present and overheard an alleged meeting between Jack Ruby, Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissman, On Nov. Fourteen, Sixtythree... Schiller interviewed by Los Angeles, March Twentytwo last, and indicated that Mark Lane's confidential informant is Paul Bridewell aka Phil Burns, and that Bridewell currently located somewhere in Oregon, possibly Portland or Rainier. Exact location of Bridewell is probably known to one John Sutton, who formerly was in radio business in Dallas... According to Schiller, Mark Lane learned of identity of Bridewell and info in possession of Bridewell from Theodore (Thayer) Waldo, formerly associated with Fort Worth, Texas, newspaper, "Sun Telegraph"... Waldo indicates that about a week after assassination Sutton asked to meet him at the Dallas Press Club and at that time Sutton indicated he knew a man who witnessed a meeting in the Carousel Club between Ruby, Officer J.D. Tippit, and a Bernard Weissman, but who was reluctant to come forward with this information [over one line redacted] Phil Burns said he was there, and that Jack Ruby walked by and said "You know J.D. here"......... It was Kilgallen, who on September 3, gave the first account of the story Lane had told the Warren Commission about the alleged "meeting" at the Carousel Club between Jack Ruby, J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissmann (the author of the anti-Kennedy ad that had upset Ruby on the day of the assassination), and to her it seemed interesting that Jack Ruby had never flat-out denied that such a meeting had occurred when he'd been asked about it by the Warren Commission. Kilgallen also siezed on a bizarre trivality in which the purloined Ruby testimony indicated that a mysterious "oil man" had also been linked to the meeting with Tippit and Weissman, but that Lane had never mentioned such an oil man in his WC testimony, and that therefore the original story of a Carousel Club meeting had to have been confirmed by at least one other, unknown source. Here's a toast to unknown sources, wherever you are. But here's one for the, bet you didn't know that department When Madame Nhu came to visit Texas, she had a member of her entourage listed as a security officer, he was in Dallas as recorded in the following news story DMN 10/24/1963 Boos, Pickets Roses and Flags, Greet Petite 'Dragon Lady' .....Dallas Police officers W. S. Biggio and H. M. Hart of the Dallas police departments special services division were on hand as well as numerous uniformed police officers..... Among the Nhu entourage was listed William Elliscue a "security officer." According to a news story that same day Elliscue, was a former agent with the Central Intelligence Agency. See also DMN 11/24/63 Mme Nhu Sees Red Hand Robert: It was this incident, in which Robert Allen Surrey's then 15-year old daughter Karen of 3506 Lindenwood presented Mme Nhu with a dozen red roses, an eerie foreshadowing, of the same tradition taking place when President Kennedy's wife Jackie Kennedy disembarked from Air Force One also at Dallas, on November 22nd. "Miss Surrey said she represented the U.S.-Day Committee, the anti-United Nations organization headed by former Gen. Edwin A Walker of Dallas." Dudley T. Dougherty, a Beeville oilman-rancher had sent Paul Reddam, [who referred to himself as an "executive in one of Dougherty's companies"] of Saint Petersburg, Florida, to New York the previous week to invite the Nhu group to his ranch for an overnight stay. Lee Oswald was allegedly present when Edwin Walker spoke later that evening. When Ruth Paine was being questioned by Allen Dulles and then Warren Commission, member Gerald Ford, the later President asked: What prompted her, if you know, to ask about Madame Nhu? Ruth Paine: She was interested in the family. She was worried about what Madame Nhu would do. Madame Nhu and the children still in her country. She wanted to know were these children going to come out either in Paris or the United States. She was concerned and her concern for world affairs seemed to go this way, of what is this mother and children going to do. See WC Vol 2 H 490 http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=498 Personally, I am not embarrassed to admit, I never knew Marina asked about Madame Nhu. I didn't either Robert. I following you. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 On September 20, 2010, Robert Howard listed the members of the State Parks and Wildlife Commission that included its Chairman, Will Odom. This would appear to be William E. Odom who was on the "Board of Directors and member of the Executive Committee of Coastal States" (Gas Producing Company) and he is also called a "Petroleum Engineer" (not to be confused with Lt. Gen. William E. Odom). www.ci.austin.tx.us/edims/document.cfm?id=41268 "In 1963, the State Parks Board and the Game and Fish Commission were merged to form the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife (House Bill 21, 58th Legislature, Regular Session)" and Will Odom remained a Chairman. www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20137/tsl-20137.html In 1993, The Coastal Corporation listed Will Odom as on the Board of Directors: Name Mailing Address ---- --------------- Oscar S. Wyatt, Jr. . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Harry G. Fair . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Norman S. Davis . . . . . . . . . 1515 National Bank of Commerce Building San Antonio, Texas 78205 H. T. Capelle . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Tracy N. DuBose . . . . . . . . . Lincoln Liberty Life Building Houston, Texas 77002 Roy L. Gates . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 521 Corpus Christi, Texas 78403 Leon Jaworski . . . . . . . . . . Fulbright, Crooker & Jaworski Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Will E. Odom . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Box 595 Austin, Texas 78767 Harold Vance . . . . . . . . . . 1429 Bank of the Southwest Building Houston, Texas 77002 Jack Ware . . . . . . . . . . . . Post Office Drawer 1827 Uvalde, Texas 78801 http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 Will's family and LBJ's family seem to have been close. http://cfdrm.fr/Lettres_Papiers.htm http://www.lonestara...st%20Ladies.htm Thanks for that Tom, any help in scrutinizing this topic is gratefully appreciated. Robert Bill, I found the following and felt that it might provide a source for what you are looking for, just substitute the document relating to Fort Worth, to, hopefully, a corresponding one for Dallas and logic seemingly dictates, it would have the skinny on the full cast of characters.... See I have included a couple of paragraphs from Je Byrne's article, which you may find helpful The Hours before Dallas: A Recollection by President Kennedy's Fort Worth Advance Man By Jeb Byrne http://www.archives....last-day-1.html After the meeting with [Raymond] Buck, the Secret Service agents began to make their contacts. I knew they were busy, but it was not until years later that I read agent Duncan's "Final Survey Report" in the National Archives and found that 508 persons had participated in security at the Fort Worth stop (Records of the U.S. House of Representatives, Record Group 233, Washington, D.C.). The Fort Worth Police Department assigned 300 officers, the Carswell Air Force Base Police 80, the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department 60, and the Texas State Police 5. The Secret Service, including agents who traveled with the President and those in the advance party, had 32 on hand. The Fort Worth Fire Department and the River Oaks Police Department also contributed personnel.......... ........As time went on, two more telephones were installed in my hotel room. The constant ringing of three telephones made the place resound like the inside of a campanile, so I called for assistance. Ross Wilder, on the staff of the Dallas office of the General Services Administration, the agency for which I then was a political appointee in Washington, came over to Fort Worth on November 21 and again on November 22 to help me answer the calls. END BTW: I recently had a conversation with an individual who once worked in a District Attorney's office, and he went on record as saying that it would not be particularly unusual for an entity such as the Game and Fish Agency, to be included in Police Department related affairs, sort of a, need some extra men scenario, if you will, however, that does not resolve the fact that it appears strongly there was an information blackout, if indeed there were a couple of individuals from the G&F in the Depository, immediately after the assassination. I don't blame you for being curious. I do know that when JFK was on the Midwest swing of a tour he did in early 1963, that the U. S. Forest Service was recruited into the Secret Service's Presidential Security apparatus, because of an ostensible shortage of bodies. Perhaps you are wondering why I included the paragraph on Ross Wilder. Well because he was an interesting person and a year after the assassination of JFK, he was deceased. See Below http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=20352082 Colonel Ross "Hoss" Wilder Jan. 10, 1917 Death: Jun. 6, 1964 Entered military service November, 1940 as Flying Cadet. Graduated from flying training and commissioned as Second Lieutenant in May, 1941. Was co-pilot on B-25 that sighted and sank Japanese submarine on December 24, 1941 at mouth of Columbia River. After Tokyo Raid, served as Bombardment Squadron Commander in England, North Africa, Italy , and Corsica. Returned to United States in May, 1944 and served as base commander at bases in Texas and Oklahoma. Reverted to inactive status in June, 1947. Was Regional Director of General Services Administration. Decorations include the Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with 9 Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Chinese Army, Navy, and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade. Obituary from the Williamson County Sun, 11 June 1964, Georgetown, TX. Colonel Ross Wilder, 47, Dies Of Heart Attack, Is Buried In Taylor Last rites for Col. Ross Wilder of Taylor, whose career during World War II brought him many military honors, were held in Taylor Tuesday afternoon. He died in Dallas early Saturday evening of a heart attack. He was 47 years old. Col. Wilder, a student of Southwestern University 1934-1938, was a pilot with Jimmy Doolittle as the first bombs were dropped on Tokyo in 1942, America's first strike at the Japanese homeland in the bitter conflict. Col. Wilder was born in Taylor and was the son of the late Mr. & Mrs. L. A. Wilder. He was a graduate of Taylor High School and attended Southwestern University and the University of Texas. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity and a member of the Presbyterian Church. At the time of his death, he was regional director of business affairs for the General Service Administration of the government and was a member of the regional administrative staff. He had been with GSA since 1951. He was a task force pilot in the first raid over Tokyo, flying from the aircraft carrier Hornet. He also served as a bomber pilot in the American Defense Theater, in the Mediterranean and European theaters of operation, and in the Pacific-China-India Theaters of War. He was decorated with the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with nine clusters, and the Military Order of China among others. Surviving are: his wife, Mrs. Ross Wilder of Dallas; a daughter, Mrs. Shelby Kartenberger of Dallas; a son, Morris Wilder of Dallas; two grandchildren, Mary Louise and William Ross Kartenberger of Dallas; one sister, Mrs. Newton G. Holman of Taylor, and two nephews, Newton Ross Holman and Greg Holman of Taylor. Funeral services were held at 2.p.m. Tuesday in the Condra Memorial Chapel. The Rev. Kenneth Moore officiated with burial in Taylor City Cemetery. Doolittle flyers served as pallbearers. Family links: Parents: Leck A. Wilder (1890 - 1963) Dorothy Ross Wilder (1890 - 1957) Burial: Taylor City Cemetery Taylor Williamson County Texas, USA Plot: Third Addition, Section 25 Created by: John Christeson Record added: Jul 08, 2007 Find A Grave Memorial# 20352082 Small world, eh. This is probably the most interesting item I have come up with so far...... Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders" http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=249 Apparently this Dallas County Rescue Service deal with the City of Dallas was in effect in 1958. By the way, the following person is buried in the same cemetery, that Harry D Holmes is supposed to be buried at, if I am not mistaken. Kenneth M Holmes Sr birth May 14, 1922 death November 18, 1990 wife Norma Chupik Holmes birth May 26, 1924 http://www.findagrav...1&PIpi=26657380 Wife: Norma Chupik Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr. Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson; Dallas County Deputy Sheriff; 1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service); State of Texas Deputy Game Warden; 3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas; Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co. Member of the IOOF 32nd Degree Mason Burial: Grove Hill Memorial Park Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith Created by: Freda Record added: Oct 25, 2008 Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841 Bill, I hope, at least your paying attention. Or not...... Mrs. Vaughan Dies at Age 51 DMN 3/8/1964 Corpus Christi, TX (AP) Mrs. Ben F. Vaughn, 51, a member of the University of Texas development board and the university's Committee of 75, died here Saturday. She was the wife of a former chairman of the Texas Game and Fish Commission and a sister of Dudley T Doughtery, South Texas political figure. Mrs. Vaughn was the daughter of James T. Dougherty and Mrs. Doughherty of Beeville, Texas. That same day..... DMN Two Engineers Killed In Crash of Light Plane Clement C Cox, Jr. and Ronald G. Corder both with Ling-Timco Vaught March 8, 1964 I have noticed curious things that pops up whenever I get into this area...... Before I go into detail, I need to know something, if anyone is paying attention. The old story about J.D. Tippit and Weissman meeting Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club was allegedly to have taken place on November 14, 1963..... http://www.maryferre...5&relPageId=176 Was there ever a reference to a rich businessman being at this meeting.....? This is not a serious question, in case anyone is wondering. For the sake of posterity, it can be rightfully argued, depending upon one's assessment of information, that the above question may truly be the unanswered question of the assassination. It turns out that the oilman, as a third party to the ostensible Ruby/Tippit/Weissman meeting of November 14, 1963 was "introduced" by Dorothy Kilgallen. The quickest way to discredit this from a kill the messenger standpoint would be to attack the author of said book. But even independent of her as a source, it seems hard to prove that Jack Ruby and Dorothy did not have a few minutes of privacy, although the privacy may have been only in the physical sense; somehow it seems there was a possibility that Kilgallen and Ruby's conversation was eavesdropped, or tapped by the Dallas Police. Equally interesting Ruby, Tippit and Weissman at the Carousel Club http://educationforu...?showtopic=5923 Excerpts from an FBI document from the National Archives (#180-10020-10469), dated March 28, 1967. The original document is a teletype and is in all caps. "Bureau has received a letter from a Mr. Lawrence Schiller, Alskog, Inc., Los Angeles, dated March Fifteen last ... Schiller has advised he is in possession of the name and location of Mark Lane's informant who allegedly furnished Lane information. He was supposedly present and overheard an alleged meeting between Jack Ruby, Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissman, On Nov. Fourteen, Sixtythree... Schiller interviewed by Los Angeles, March Twentytwo last, and indicated that Mark Lane's confidential informant is Paul Bridewell aka Phil Burns, and that Bridewell currently located somewhere in Oregon, possibly Portland or Rainier. Exact location of Bridewell is probably known to one John Sutton, who formerly was in radio business in Dallas... According to Schiller, Mark Lane learned of identity of Bridewell and info in possession of Bridewell from Theodore (Thayer) Waldo, formerly associated with Fort Worth, Texas, newspaper, "Sun Telegraph"... Waldo indicates that about a week after assassination Sutton asked to meet him at the Dallas Press Club and at that time Sutton indicated he knew a man who witnessed a meeting in the Carousel Club between Ruby, Officer J.D. Tippit, and a Bernard Weissman, but who was reluctant to come forward with this information [over one line redacted] Phil Burns said he was there, and that Jack Ruby walked by and said "You know J.D. here"......... It was Kilgallen, who on September 3, gave the first account of the story Lane had told the Warren Commission about the alleged "meeting" at the Carousel Club between Jack Ruby, J.D. Tippit, and Bernard Weissmann (the author of the anti-Kennedy ad that had upset Ruby on the day of the assassination), and to her it seemed interesting that Jack Ruby had never flat-out denied that such a meeting had occurred when he'd been asked about it by the Warren Commission. Kilgallen also siezed on a bizarre trivality in which the purloined Ruby testimony indicated that a mysterious "oil man" had also been linked to the meeting with Tippit and Weissman, but that Lane had never mentioned such an oil man in his WC testimony, and that therefore the original story of a Carousel Club meeting had to have been confirmed by at least one other, unknown source. Here's a toast to unknown sources, wherever you are. But here's one for the, bet you didn't know that department When Madame Nhu came to visit Texas, she had a member of her entourage listed as a security officer, he was in Dallas as recorded in the following news story DMN 10/24/1963 Boos, Pickets Roses and Flags, Greet Petite 'Dragon Lady' .....Dallas Police officers W. S. Biggio and H. M. Hart of the Dallas police departments special services division were on hand as well as numerous uniformed police officers..... Among the Nhu entourage was listed William Elliscue a "security officer." According to a news story that same day Elliscue, was a former agent with the Central Intelligence Agency. See also DMN 11/24/63 Mme Nhu Sees Red Hand Robert: It was this incident, in which Robert Allen Surrey's then 15-year old daughter Karen of 3506 Lindenwood presented Mme Nhu with a dozen red roses, an eerie foreshadowing, of the same tradition taking place when President Kennedy's wife Jackie Kennedy disembarked from Air Force One also at Dallas, on November 22nd. "Miss Surrey said she represented the U.S.-Day Committee, the anti-United Nations organization headed by former Gen. Edwin A Walker of Dallas." Dudley T. Dougherty, a Beeville oilman-rancher had sent Paul Reddam, [who referred to himself as an "executive in one of Dougherty's companies"] of Saint Petersburg, Florida, to New York the previous week to invite the Nhu group to his ranch for an overnight stay. Lee Oswald was allegedly present when Edwin Walker spoke later that evening. When Ruth Paine was being questioned by Allen Dulles and then Warren Commission, member Gerald Ford, the later President asked: What prompted her, if you know, to ask about Madame Nhu? Ruth Paine: She was interested in the family. She was worried about what Madame Nhu would do. Madame Nhu and the children still in her country. She wanted to know were these children going to come out either in Paris or the United States. She was concerned and her concern for world affairs seemed to go this way, of what is this mother and children going to do. See WC Vol 2 H 490 http://www.maryferre...8&relPageId=498 Personally, I am not embarrassed to admit, I never knew Marina asked about Madame Nhu. I didn't either Robert. I following you. BK I promise after this post, to stay on topic... But....regarding J.D. Tippit, a simple search at NARA under last name Tippit shows 675 hits...... Would it surprise anyone if there was a POSTPONED IN FULL document? See below AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10080-10169 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 008591 DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE FROM : [No From] TO : [No To] TITLE : ADMISSIBILITY OF EVIDENCE OF OTTO CRIMES; THE SHOOTING OF OFFICER.... DATE : 00/00/0000 PAGES : 9 DOCUMENT TYPE : REPORT SUBJECTS : OSWALD, LEE HARVEY; ACTIVITIES OF NOV 22-24, 1963; TIPPIT, J.D.; SHOOTING CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/24/1993 COMMENTS : Extra copy attached. Box 156. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Hi Robert, Does this mean that it's now released, or am I confused? (and who's Otto Crimes?) http://cryptome.org/jya/jfk080597.txt Notice of Additional Releases After consultation with appropriate Federal agencies, the Review Board announces that the following House Select Committee on Assassination records are now being opened in full: "...180-10080-10169..." ASSASSINATION RECORDS REVIEW BOARD Formal Determinations, Releases, and Assassination Records Designation Reconsideration AGENCY: Assassination Records Review Board. ACTION: Notice. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: The Assassination Records Review Board (Review Board) met in a closed meeting on July 9, 1997, and made formal determinations on the release of records under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (JFK Act). By issuing this notice, the Review Board complies with the section of the JFK Act that requires the Review Board to publish the results of its decisions on a document-by- document basis in the Federal Register within 14 days of the date of the decision. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: T. Jeremy Gunn, General Counsel and Associate Director for Research and Analysis, Assassination Records Review Board, Second Floor, Washington, D.C. 20530, (202) 724-0088, fax (202) 724-0457. Edited November 21, 2010 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) Hi Robert, Does this mean that it's now released, or am I confused? (and who's Otto Crimes?) http://cryptome.org/jya/jfk080597.txt Notice of Additional Releases After consultation with appropriate Federal agencies, the Review Board announces that the following House Select Committee on Assassination records are now being opened in full: "...180-10080-10169..." ASSASSINATION RECORDS REVIEW BOARD Formal Determinations, Releases, and Assassination Records Designation Reconsideration AGENCY: Assassination Records Review Board. ACTION: Notice. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: The Assassination Records Review Board (Review Board) met in a closed meeting on July 9, 1997, and made formal determinations on the release of records under the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (JFK Act). By issuing this notice, the Review Board complies with the section of the JFK Act that requires the Review Board to publish the results of its decisions on a document-by- document basis in the Federal Register within 14 days of the date of the decision. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: T. Jeremy Gunn, General Counsel and Associate Director for Research and Analysis, Assassination Records Review Board, Second Floor, Washington, D.C. 20530, (202) 724-0088, fax (202) 724-0457. Tom, in response to your question, I can state with zero certainty that the name Otto Crimes is probably not a person but a discombobulated title, which is not uncommon to veterans of perusing declassified government documents.... My guess is that the Otto being referenced is named below, but it is only an educated guess. John Otto was named by Edwin Meese as acting FBI Director from May to November 1987. He was born December 18, 1938 and raised in St. Paul, Minnesota. He served two years in the Marine Corps and in 1963 he was working in the Oakland Police Department as a member of the special duty tactical squad. On October 12, 1964 he entered the FBI as an agent working in the Dallas and Newark field offices as well as the Tyler, Texas and Camden, New Jersey resident agencies. See page 347 The FBI: A Comprehensive Reference Guide - Athan G. Theoharis Hopefully, there is more to come......for the time being Possible Discovery of an Automobile Used Exes and Texas Strange Magnolias Bush's close friend and confidant, William "Will" Stamps Farish III, also has family ties to companies that helped sponsor the Nazis. In 1937, William Stamps Farish, Sr., became chief executive and president of Standard Oil of New Jersey after merging his own company, Humble Oil, with John D. Rockefeller, Jr.'s. In 1942, a Senate committee headed by Harry S Truman found that Standard had extensive secret relations with both Germany and Japan; including close relations with Hitler's government and a virtual cartel with "Germany's giant I.G. Farben chemical complex, manufacturers of Zyklon B, the nerve gas used in the Nazi death camps to exterminate `undesirables.'" Bush goes quail hunting annually on Farish's Lazy F Ranch near Beeville, Texas.290 Another Beeville rancher is James R. Dougherty, former resident of UT's "politically correct" upperclassman dormitory, "Old B Hall"; an honor shared with William F. Buckley, Sr., Rex G. and Hines Baker (top executives at Humble Oil), Senator Richard Kleberg (LBJ's former Capitol Hill boss), William B. Bates (founder of the law firm Fulbright and Jaworski), D.H. Byrd, and C.B. Smith. The Dougherty clan produced right-wing Dallas oilman Dudley Dougherty, who brought Madam Ngo Dinh Nhu to Dallas in October 1963 to be honored at General Walker's "U.S. Day" rally attended by Lee Harvey Oswald. Walker's aid, Robert Surrey, author of the infamous "Wanted for Treason" poster attacking JFK, was rumored to be a member of a Minuteman group, training at the ranch of Dudley Dougherty.291 Brading's proximity to Magnolia, Hunt, Zapata, and David Ferrie, and his arrest and release in Dealey Plaza, make it well worth examining a similar incident in Dealey Plaza. 291. Frantz, The Forty Acre Follies, pp. 97-100; Byrd, I'm an Endangered Species, p. 17; Scott, Government Documents..., ch. II, pp. 18-21; WCR, p. 298.) http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/17th_Issue/rambler2.html Genealogy possibilities....? Sam Dougherty. He was one of eight other persons who came to Dallas Sept 28-29, 1963 to produce "How Hollywood Makes Movies" at State Fair Midway 10/5-10/20 1963. They stayed at the Baker Hotel the first few days then moved to the 3900 block of Gaston Avenue, they were the only occupants of the house; seemingly little is known about their activities See WC Vol 25, p. 326) PS Some would cite the following as going full circle, others would say grasping at straws, but it is nonetheless noteworthy that the Dudley Dougherty Foundation is listed among the supporters of the Texas Wildlife Association Foundation See www.twafoundation.org/pdfs/TWAFAnnualReport2009.pdf By the way, Dudley's T Dougherty b. obituary seems rather hard to find...If anyone can lend a hand I would be eternally grateful Edited November 21, 2010 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) Aug 14, 1967: “Howard Dodgen, executive secretary of the Texas Game and Fish Commission, said, "If the dredgers are given the go-ahead, the oyster industry will be destroyed for all time to come." In the summer of 1963 Texas Governor John Connally asked the legislature to combine the nine-man Texas Game and Fish Commission with the five-man Parks Commission. Sportsmen's clubs agreed, with the understanding that fishing-license fees would go to fishing facilities rather than into the parks, of which Texas has pitifully few. The legislature went along with Connally. A new Parks and Wildlife Commission was created. The three members were Will Odom of Austin, a geologist, engineer and independent oil and gas producer; James M. Dellinger of Corpus Christi, a road contractor who has used much oyster shell in construction; and A. W. Moursund, a Johnson City lawyer who serves as trustee for President Johnson's personal business affairs, has a direct telephone line to the White House and claims it is his job to keep the President's affairs secret from the President to avoid conflict of interest. Moursund's name is one of those, along with White House staffers and secret service agents, that appear on a mimeographed passenger list used on presidential helicopters.” http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080169/2/index.htm JAMES M. DELLINGER: Also, in 1946 James M. Dellinger was Superintendent of Brown and Root, Corpus Christi. http://www1.tshaonline.org/publications/journals/shq/online/v050/n1/issue_print.htmlanniversary. WILL ODOM also sat on the Board of Directors of the multi-billion dollar Coastal Corporation along with Leon Jaworski. http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?ID=1297197&SessionID=WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 A. W. MOURSUND: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897372-1,00.html “It is hardly a secret that President Johnson likes Texans—and has imported a fair number of them to work in Washington. Yet the Texan that Lyndon probably likes best of them all is one he has left behind. He is A. W. (for Albert Wadel) Moursund, 45, who lives in a modest ranch house in the hills of central Texas, works out of a small brick building off Johnson City's courthouse square, has a passion for anonymity, and insists to inquiring newsmen that "I don't give interviews. I just practice law, that's about all." Moursund practices more than a little law: he is recognized as a highly respected authority on the law of real property in a state where such expertise counts heavily. He is also the principal trustee of all the Johnsons' land, cattle, municipal bonds, radio and television holdings. Elected Blanco County judge, a largely administrative post, in the mid-'50s, he quit politics after five years, but still is known as "the Judge" around Johnson City. Through Prickly Pear. Moursund is an all-round man in the best Texas tradition. He controls a local bank. He can survey land, brand cattle, ride a horse through prickly pear cactus, steer his Lincoln Continental through cedar brush in pursuit of game, drop a deer with unerring aim, then gut and skin the animal. To the Judge ranching is more of a pleasure than a source of income. Explains an associate: "He gets a real kick out of manipulating cattle from one pasture to another." He also enjoys food in quantity. When he speaks of a "couple of hamburgers" for lunch, it turns out to be thick chunks of roast round steak, rolls, iced tea, jalapenos, peas, fried potatoes, fruit cake, and cottage cheese salad. Johnson's admiration of Moursund knows no bounds. Shortly after he became President, he boasted to newsmen that Moursund, who stands 6 ft. 3 in., and weighs 230 Ibs. with no fat, could "whup Sonny Listen tonight, right now." According to Lyndon, Moursund keeps a six-shooter in the glove compartment of his Lincoln and is fast on the draw. A few months after Jack Kennedy's death, Johnson declared: "If anybody tried to do anything to me, the Judge would get him before anybody." Moursund also keeps a .30-caliber rifle with a nickel-plated barrel clipped under the front seat of his car. Explains he: "When you have to shoot a rattlesnake, pistols aren't worth a damn." The Judge is also at home on water. Once Lyndon developed a craving for a cruise up the narrow, treacherous Llano River on a winter night so pitch-dark that Moursund stepped right off the end of the pier into hip-deep water. Yet A. W. took the wheel of the cruiser, while Lyndon unconcernedly ate shrimp in the cabin below. Said Johnson: "He'll get us there. I wouldn't trust anybody else." An Extra Million. Moursund's business acumen is held in awe, particularly by those who recall such feats as his 1958 sale of 631,000 acres on three ranches owned by the West-Pyle Cattle Co. for almost $3,000,000—a cool $1,000,000 more than the owners had expected. He did it by rounding up the biggest cattle buyers in the Southwest, carefully sorting the cattle by breed, size and quality, insisting on sealed bids for each pen. “It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. oursund comes naturally by such talents. His father, A. W. Moursund Jr., had developed ranch holdings in Blanco County, founded Johnson City State Bank (it survived the Depression but closed in the late '30s), and married Mary Frances Stribling. The Striblings, largely through Mary's mother, Lurania, who had a knack for acquiring land and stocking it profitably with cattle, sheep and goats, owned some 100,000 acres near the Pedernales River. Lurania was once asked how much land she thought was "enough." "Just what's mine," she said, "and that which joins mine." The Judge worked as a boy on his grandmother's ranch, earned a law degree from the University of Texas and learned practical law from his uncle, Anton N. Moursund, who at 88 is still a respected circuit judge in San Antonio. After 42 months' duty as an Air Force staff sergeant in World War II, A. W. set up practice in Johnson City. He also gradually expanded his inherited lands into a millionaire's fortune of his own. "More Little Places." It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. Two ranches, now part of the Johnson trust, are jointly owned by Johnson and Moursund. Acquired in 1961 and 1962, they are the 2,186-acre Three Springs Ranch along the Pedernales in Blanco County and the 4,500-acre Haywood Ranch in the lake region of nearby Llano County. They consist chiefly of pastureland on which cattle, sheep and Angora goats thrive. Moursund explains his interest in such land acquisition with typical understatement. Says he: "The more little places you have, the better off you are." Nowadays, when Lyndon is at the LBJ Ranch or even taking one of his patented auto tours of his property, Moursund can reach him by radiotelephone either from the Moursund office, his car, or from the Moursund house. And when Lyndon is in Washington, all Moursund has to do is pick up a white telephone on a counter in his kitchen. A small blue White House symbol on its face indicates that it is a special, direct line to the President." Edited November 23, 2010 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 Aug 14, 1967: “Howard Dodgen, executive secretary of the Texas Game and Fish Commission, said, "If the dredgers are given the go-ahead, the oyster industry will be destroyed for all time to come." In the summer of 1963 Texas Governor John Connally asked the legislature to combine the nine-man Texas Game and Fish Commission with the five-man Parks Commission. Sportsmen's clubs agreed, with the understanding that fishing-license fees would go to fishing facilities rather than into the parks, of which Texas has pitifully few. The legislature went along with Connally. A new Parks and Wildlife Commission was created. The three members were Will Odom of Austin, a geologist, engineer and independent oil and gas producer; James M. Dellinger of Corpus Christi, a road contractor who has used much oyster shell in construction; and A. W. Moursund, a Johnson City lawyer who serves as trustee for President Johnson's personal business affairs, has a direct telephone line to the White House and claims it is his job to keep the President's affairs secret from the President to avoid conflict of interest. Moursund's name is one of those, along with White House staffers and secret service agents, that appear on a mimeographed passenger list used on presidential helicopters.” http://sportsillustr...169/2/index.htm JAMES M. DELLINGER: Also, in 1946 James M. Dellinger was Superintendent of Brown and Root, Corpus Christi. http://www1.tshaonli...tmlanniversary. WILL ODOM also sat on the Board of Directors of the multi-billion dollar Coastal Corporation along with Leon Jaworski. http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 A. W. MOURSUND: http://www.time.com/...97372-1,00.html “It is hardly a secret that President Johnson likes Texans—and has imported a fair number of them to work in Washington. Yet the Texan that Lyndon probably likes best of them all is one he has left behind. He is A. W. (for Albert Wadel) Moursund, 45, who lives in a modest ranch house in the hills of central Texas, works out of a small brick building off Johnson City's courthouse square, has a passion for anonymity, and insists to inquiring newsmen that "I don't give interviews. I just practice law, that's about all." Moursund practices more than a little law: he is recognized as a highly respected authority on the law of real property in a state where such expertise counts heavily. He is also the principal trustee of all the Johnsons' land, cattle, municipal bonds, radio and television holdings. Elected Blanco County judge, a largely administrative post, in the mid-'50s, he quit politics after five years, but still is known as "the Judge" around Johnson City. Through Prickly Pear. Moursund is an all-round man in the best Texas tradition. He controls a local bank. He can survey land, brand cattle, ride a horse through prickly pear cactus, steer his Lincoln Continental through cedar brush in pursuit of game, drop a deer with unerring aim, then gut and skin the animal. To the Judge ranching is more of a pleasure than a source of income. Explains an associate: "He gets a real kick out of manipulating cattle from one pasture to another." He also enjoys food in quantity. When he speaks of a "couple of hamburgers" for lunch, it turns out to be thick chunks of roast round steak, rolls, iced tea, jalapenos, peas, fried potatoes, fruit cake, and cottage cheese salad. Johnson's admiration of Moursund knows no bounds. Shortly after he became President, he boasted to newsmen that Moursund, who stands 6 ft. 3 in., and weighs 230 Ibs. with no fat, could "whup Sonny Listen tonight, right now." According to Lyndon, Moursund keeps a six-shooter in the glove compartment of his Lincoln and is fast on the draw. A few months after Jack Kennedy's death, Johnson declared: "If anybody tried to do anything to me, the Judge would get him before anybody." Moursund also keeps a .30-caliber rifle with a nickel-plated barrel clipped under the front seat of his car. Explains he: "When you have to shoot a rattlesnake, pistols aren't worth a damn." The Judge is also at home on water. Once Lyndon developed a craving for a cruise up the narrow, treacherous Llano River on a winter night so pitch-dark that Moursund stepped right off the end of the pier into hip-deep water. Yet A. W. took the wheel of the cruiser, while Lyndon unconcernedly ate shrimp in the cabin below. Said Johnson: "He'll get us there. I wouldn't trust anybody else." An Extra Million. Moursund's business acumen is held in awe, particularly by those who recall such feats as his 1958 sale of 631,000 acres on three ranches owned by the West-Pyle Cattle Co. for almost $3,000,000—a cool $1,000,000 more than the owners had expected. He did it by rounding up the biggest cattle buyers in the Southwest, carefully sorting the cattle by breed, size and quality, insisting on sealed bids for each pen. “It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. oursund comes naturally by such talents. His father, A. W. Moursund Jr., had developed ranch holdings in Blanco County, founded Johnson City State Bank (it survived the Depression but closed in the late '30s), and married Mary Frances Stribling. The Striblings, largely through Mary's mother, Lurania, who had a knack for acquiring land and stocking it profitably with cattle, sheep and goats, owned some 100,000 acres near the Pedernales River. Lurania was once asked how much land she thought was "enough." "Just what's mine," she said, "and that which joins mine." The Judge worked as a boy on his grandmother's ranch, earned a law degree from the University of Texas and learned practical law from his uncle, Anton N. Moursund, who at 88 is still a respected circuit judge in San Antonio. After 42 months' duty as an Air Force staff sergeant in World War II, A. W. set up practice in Johnson City. He also gradually expanded his inherited lands into a millionaire's fortune of his own. "More Little Places." It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. Two ranches, now part of the Johnson trust, are jointly owned by Johnson and Moursund. Acquired in 1961 and 1962, they are the 2,186-acre Three Springs Ranch along the Pedernales in Blanco County and the 4,500-acre Haywood Ranch in the lake region of nearby Llano County. They consist chiefly of pastureland on which cattle, sheep and Angora goats thrive. Moursund explains his interest in such land acquisition with typical understatement. Says he: "The more little places you have, the better off you are." Nowadays, when Lyndon is at the LBJ Ranch or even taking one of his patented auto tours of his property, Moursund can reach him by radiotelephone either from the Moursund office, his car, or from the Moursund house. And when Lyndon is in Washington, all Moursund has to do is pick up a white telephone on a counter in his kitchen. A small blue White House symbol on its face indicates that it is a special, direct line to the President." Thanks for those last few posts Robert and Tom, And Robert, especially John Otto, the FBI agent who worked in Camden (with my father), and Tom for Albert Wadel Moursund. I wonder if the Fish & Game guy were members of the Koon Kreek Klub - a private fishing club that Judyth Baker of all people, first made note of? We still don't know who the Fish & Game Commission guys were in the TSBD after the assassination. Were they the guys with rifles, looking for rattlesnakes? And the idea Moursund worked on LBJ's stocks. I thought J. W. Bullion did that, as that's the first guy LBJ called from AF1 after the assassination, apparently in regards to his stocks. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) Aug 14, 1967: "Howard Dodgen, executive secretary of the Texas Game and Fish Commission, said, "If the dredgers are given the go-ahead, the oyster industry will be destroyed for all time to come." In the summer of 1963 Texas Governor John Connally asked the legislature to combine the nine-man Texas Game and Fish Commission with the five-man Parks Commission. Sportsmen's clubs agreed, with the understanding that fishing-license fees would go to fishing facilities rather than into the parks, of which Texas has pitifully few. The legislature went along with Connally. A new Parks and Wildlife Commission was created. The three members were Will Odom of Austin, a geologist, engineer and independent oil and gas producer; James M. Dellinger of Corpus Christi, a road contractor who has used much oyster shell in construction; and A. W. Moursund, a Johnson City lawyer who serves as trustee for President Johnson's personal business affairs, has a direct telephone line to the White House and claims it is his job to keep the President's affairs secret from the President to avoid conflict of interest. Moursund's name is one of those, along with White House staffers and secret service agents, that appear on a mimeographed passenger list used on presidential helicopters." http://sportsillustr...169/2/index.htm JAMES M. DELLINGER: Also, in 1946 James M. Dellinger was Superintendent of Brown and Root, Corpus Christi. http://www1.tshaonli...tmlanniversary. WILL ODOM also sat on the Board of Directors of the multi-billion dollar Coastal Corporation along with Leon Jaworski. http://google.brand....WHiYHWQXC5UvL27 A. W. MOURSUND: http://www.time.com/...97372-1,00.html "It is hardly a secret that President Johnson likes Texans—and has imported a fair number of them to work in Washington. Yet the Texan that Lyndon probably likes best of them all is one he has left behind. He is A. W. (for Albert Wadel) Moursund, 45, who lives in a modest ranch house in the hills of central Texas, works out of a small brick building off Johnson City's courthouse square, has a passion for anonymity, and insists to inquiring newsmen that "I don't give interviews. I just practice law, that's about all." Moursund practices more than a little law: he is recognized as a highly respected authority on the law of real property in a state where such expertise counts heavily. He is also the principal trustee of all the Johnsons' land, cattle, municipal bonds, radio and television holdings. Elected Blanco County judge, a largely administrative post, in the mid-'50s, he quit politics after five years, but still is known as "the Judge" around Johnson City. Through Prickly Pear. Moursund is an all-round man in the best Texas tradition. He controls a local bank. He can survey land, brand cattle, ride a horse through prickly pear cactus, steer his Lincoln Continental through cedar brush in pursuit of game, drop a deer with unerring aim, then gut and skin the animal. To the Judge ranching is more of a pleasure than a source of income. Explains an associate: "He gets a real kick out of manipulating cattle from one pasture to another." He also enjoys food in quantity. When he speaks of a "couple of hamburgers" for lunch, it turns out to be thick chunks of roast round steak, rolls, iced tea, jalapenos, peas, fried potatoes, fruit cake, and cottage cheese salad. Johnson's admiration of Moursund knows no bounds. Shortly after he became President, he boasted to newsmen that Moursund, who stands 6 ft. 3 in., and weighs 230 Ibs. with no fat, could "whup Sonny Listen tonight, right now." According to Lyndon, Moursund keeps a six-shooter in the glove compartment of his Lincoln and is fast on the draw. A few months after Jack Kennedy's death, Johnson declared: "If anybody tried to do anything to me, the Judge would get him before anybody." Moursund also keeps a .30-caliber rifle with a nickel-plated barrel clipped under the front seat of his car. Explains he: "When you have to shoot a rattlesnake, pistols aren't worth a damn." The Judge is also at home on water. Once Lyndon developed a craving for a cruise up the narrow, treacherous Llano River on a winter night so pitch-dark that Moursund stepped right off the end of the pier into hip-deep water. Yet A. W. took the wheel of the cruiser, while Lyndon unconcernedly ate shrimp in the cabin below. Said Johnson: "He'll get us there. I wouldn't trust anybody else." An Extra Million. Moursund's business acumen is held in awe, particularly by those who recall such feats as his 1958 sale of 631,000 acres on three ranches owned by the West-Pyle Cattle Co. for almost $3,000,000—a cool $1,000,000 more than the owners had expected. He did it by rounding up the biggest cattle buyers in the Southwest, carefully sorting the cattle by breed, size and quality, insisting on sealed bids for each pen. "It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. oursund comes naturally by such talents. His father, A. W. Moursund Jr., had developed ranch holdings in Blanco County, founded Johnson City State Bank (it survived the Depression but closed in the late '30s), and married Mary Frances Stribling. The Striblings, largely through Mary's mother, Lurania, who had a knack for acquiring land and stocking it profitably with cattle, sheep and goats, owned some 100,000 acres near the Pedernales River. Lurania was once asked how much land she thought was "enough." "Just what's mine," she said, "and that which joins mine." The Judge worked as a boy on his grandmother's ranch, earned a law degree from the University of Texas and learned practical law from his uncle, Anton N. Moursund, who at 88 is still a respected circuit judge in San Antonio. After 42 months' duty as an Air Force staff sergeant in World War II, A. W. set up practice in Johnson City. He also gradually expanded his inherited lands into a millionaire's fortune of his own. "More Little Places." It was a land deal that brought Johnson and Moursund, who had been neighbors and friends for years, closer together. In the early '50s Johnson sought the lawyer's help in putting the LBJ Ranch together from land held by Lyndon's grandfather, Samuel Ealy Johnson. Moursund handled the legal work efficiently, also proved a sharp adviser on new grasses, breeding and pasture planning. As Lyndon rose in Washington politics, he came to rely more and more on A.W. to tend to business matters at home. Two ranches, now part of the Johnson trust, are jointly owned by Johnson and Moursund. Acquired in 1961 and 1962, they are the 2,186-acre Three Springs Ranch along the Pedernales in Blanco County and the 4,500-acre Haywood Ranch in the lake region of nearby Llano County. They consist chiefly of pastureland on which cattle, sheep and Angora goats thrive. Moursund explains his interest in such land acquisition with typical understatement. Says he: "The more little places you have, the better off you are." Nowadays, when Lyndon is at the LBJ Ranch or even taking one of his patented auto tours of his property, Moursund can reach him by radiotelephone either from the Moursund office, his car, or from the Moursund house. And when Lyndon is in Washington, all Moursund has to do is pick up a white telephone on a counter in his kitchen. A small blue White House symbol on its face indicates that it is a special, direct line to the President." Thanks for those last few posts Robert and Tom, And Robert, especially John Otto, the FBI agent who worked in Camden (with my father), and Tom for Albert Wadel Moursund. I wonder if the Fish & Game guy were members of the Koon Kreek Klub - a private fishing club that Judyth Baker of all people, first made note of? We still don't know who the Fish & Game Commission guys were in the TSBD after the assassination. Were they the guys with rifles, looking for rattlesnakes? And the idea Moursund worked on LBJ's stocks. I thought J. W. Bullion did that, as that's the first guy LBJ called from AF1 after the assassination, apparently in regards to his stocks. BK We may never know who the persons were in the TSBD from the Texas Game and Fish Commission, but I am reasonably sure, someone knows. One thing I have discovered, is that the Dallas Police Department in those days, had a Bureau that arguably, could cloak something of that nature; One thing that keeps coming up when I seem to get close to discovering anything about a linkage between the Texas Game and Fish Commission and the Dallas Police Department is a section heading of the Dallas Police Department referenced as the Special Section Bureau; At first, I was under the impression it was an entity unto itself, but that does not appear altogether accurate. Example in an DMN Article dated November 7, 1963 entitled "School Issue Cited: Students Not Eating" there is a passage which states "Lt Frank Dyson of the Vice section, Special Service Bureau of the Dallas Police Department, spoke on the dangers and influence of pornography.... But an October 30, 1963 DMN article specifically states "Detective Pat Gannaway chief of the special service bureau, which conducted the gambling raids last week personally filed the complaints." One is listed as a subsection of the Vice Section, the other story mentions, that Gannaway is, as stated, the Chief of the Special Service Bureau.... I am very interested in the Special Service Bureau, for reasons which seem logical. See Two Named in Gambling Complaints By the way the two named were Joseph Ronald Horwitz, 32 of 5330 Meadowcrest and Virgil Henry Arnold, Jr. 35, of St. Moritz The gambling house was located at 4208 Live Oak The article also mention a raid Thursday night on a stag party at the Cabana Motor Hotel...... The obituary below should help answer some questions about A. W. Moursund. San Antonio Express-News (TX) - April 26, 2002 Moursund 82, friend of LBJ Lawmaker worked on electric coop Former state Rep. Albert Wadel Moursund III, a good friend and adviser of President Johnson, has died at 82. Moursund, also a prominent lawyer and longtime general counsel for the Pedernales Electric Cooperative, had been a rancher, a banker, county judge in Blanco County and a member of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission. He served in the House from 1948 to 1952. He died Monday at his home in Round Mountain. With Johnson and John Connally, who would later become Texas governor, Moursund was known for his work to get federal aid to extend power lines to more households in Central Texas. At the time, investor-owned utilities were reluctant to incur such expenses in the sparsely populated region. The Pedernales cooperative is now the nation's largest, with 165,000 hookups serving about 500,000 people in 21 counties. "They were all big men, physically," Bennie Fuelberg, general manager of the cooperative, said of Johnson, Connally and Moursund. "They also thought big. They're part of a vanishing breed of Texan." Moursund became friends with Johnson when their families lived half a block apart in Johnson City. In 1963, Johnson granted Moursund an irrevocable power of attorney to manage his financial affairs. The families remained close. "A.W. was a figure larger than life in the lives of our family," Lady Bird Johnson said Tuesday. "His adventurous spirit, sagacity, grit and good humor were gifts to all of us. He was much loved and will be much missed." He owned two banks - the Arrowhead in Llano and the Cattleman's in Round Mountain - at the time of his death. Moursund earned his law degree at the University of Texas at Austin in 1941 and served in the U.S. Army Air Corps during World War II. He opened his law practice in Johnson City after the war. Survivors include his wife, Mary Allen; a son, Will; a daughter, Mary; and two grandchildren. He was buried Thursday in Round Mountain. Edited November 23, 2010 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) Mr. REVILL My name is Jack Revill. I reside at 5617 Madowics, Dallas, Tex. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an official connection with the police department of Dallas? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I do. Mr. RANKIN. What is that? Mr. REVILL. I am presently a lieutenant of police of the Dallas Police Department. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you occupied that position? Mr. REVILL. I was promoted to lieutenant June 26, 1958. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any particular area of responsibility? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I am presently in charge of the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. Have you been in charge of that section since November 22 of 1963? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I have. Mr. RANKIN. What are the functions of your work in that job? Mr. REVILL. My unit--our primary responsibility is to investigate crimes of an organized nature, subversive activities, racial matters, labor racketeering, and to do anything that the chief might desire. We work for the chief of police. I report to a captain who is in charge of the special service bureau. Mr. RANKIN. Who is that? Mr. REVILL. Capt. Pat Gannaway. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you reported to him? Mr. REVILL. In my present capacity? Mr. RANKIN. Yes. Mr. REVILL. Since I have been assigned to the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. So that was for all times since and on November 22, 1963? edit add maybe it has somethingto do with Texas Association of School Boards (TASB) as well. the search requires subscription from here but the sybopsis mentions it but not in a way that indicates context Edited November 23, 2010 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted November 24, 2010 Share Posted November 24, 2010 Mr. REVILL My name is Jack Revill. I reside at 5617 Madowics, Dallas, Tex. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an official connection with the police department of Dallas? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I do. Mr. RANKIN. What is that? Mr. REVILL. I am presently a lieutenant of police of the Dallas Police Department. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you occupied that position? Mr. REVILL. I was promoted to lieutenant June 26, 1958. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any particular area of responsibility? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I am presently in charge of the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. Have you been in charge of that section since November 22 of 1963? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I have. Mr. RANKIN. What are the functions of your work in that job? Mr. REVILL. My unit--our primary responsibility is to investigate crimes of an organized nature, subversive activities, racial matters, labor racketeering, and to do anything that the chief might desire. We work for the chief of police. I report to a captain who is in charge of the special service bureau. Mr. RANKIN. Who is that? Mr. REVILL. Capt. Pat Gannaway. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you reported to him? Mr. REVILL. In my present capacity? Mr. RANKIN. Yes. Mr. REVILL. Since I have been assigned to the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. So that was for all times since and on November 22, 1963? edit add maybe it has somethingto do with Texas Association of School Boards (TASB) as well. the search requires subscription from here but the sybopsis mentions it but not in a way that indicates context Thanks for that John! For all those who are interested there is an article that might help those who are interested in pursuing this further. It was written by Jerry Dealey, and entitled: The Ups & Downs of The Texas Schoolbook Depository DPE Vol 12 Issue #1 - March 2008 Here is the URL http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=1510370 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share Posted November 24, 2010 Mr. REVILL My name is Jack Revill. I reside at 5617 Madowics, Dallas, Tex. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have an official connection with the police department of Dallas? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I do. Mr. RANKIN. What is that? Mr. REVILL. I am presently a lieutenant of police of the Dallas Police Department. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you occupied that position? Mr. REVILL. I was promoted to lieutenant June 26, 1958. Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any particular area of responsibility? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I am presently in charge of the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. Have you been in charge of that section since November 22 of 1963? Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I have. Mr. RANKIN. What are the functions of your work in that job? Mr. REVILL. My unit--our primary responsibility is to investigate crimes of an organized nature, subversive activities, racial matters, labor racketeering, and to do anything that the chief might desire. We work for the chief of police. I report to a captain who is in charge of the special service bureau. Mr. RANKIN. Who is that? Mr. REVILL. Capt. Pat Gannaway. Mr. RANKIN. How long have you reported to him? Mr. REVILL. In my present capacity? Mr. RANKIN. Yes. Mr. REVILL. Since I have been assigned to the criminal intelligence section. Mr. RANKIN. So that was for all times since and on November 22, 1963? edit add maybe it has somethingto do with Texas Association of School Boards (TASB) as well. the search requires subscription from here but the sybopsis mentions it but not in a way that indicates context Thanks for that John! For all those who are interested there is an article that might help those who are interested in pursuing this further. It was written by Jerry Dealey, and entitled: The Ups & Downs of The Texas Schoolbook Depository DPE Vol 12 Issue #1 - March 2008 Here is the URL http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1510370 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce709.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now