Terry Mauro Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Vidal was a relative by marriage. Ill give you the slow-learner version Hugh D. Auchincloss Jr. was Vidals step-father 1935 41 and Jackies step father 1942 79. They probably only knew each other vaguely if at all. There is no reason to assume he has some sort of special insight in to how the father-in-law of his ex-stepfathers step-daughter made his fortune in the 1920s. Len, I know a lot about Gore Vidal. Gore and Jackie were step-siblings once removed. They were at the home at different times and were friendly. She used to wear his plaid shirts for warmth sometimes. Gore Vidal admired her very much. He wrote after she died how intelligent she was and possessed with a profound acerbic wit. He never said anything about her when she was alive, as far as I know. The trouble started when the Kennedys gave a dinner in the White House. Jackie was in a room with several people. There was nowhere to sit. He squatted down by her and kept his balance by resting his hand on Jackie's shoulder next to him. They started talking. Whoever was on her other side spoke to her. Suddenly his hand was knocked off Jackie's shoulder. It was Bobby Kennedy. Gore ignored him. Again Jackie turned to him and the person on her other side engaged her attention. Again Bobby Kennedy knocked Vidal's hand off Jackie's shoulder. Kennedy walked out of the room. Vidal stormed out after him. He closed the door behind him and other doors were closed. He said, "Don't you ever do that again." To which Kennedy replied, "F--- off, Buddy Boy." To which one of America's man of letters heard himself say, "You f--- off." [i had to clean up the language for Kathy Beckett's sake.] When this party was over, Jackie never spoke to him again. And I think that's tragic. Rumors began circulating that Gore Vidal got drunk at the party, disgraced himself -- and by the early '70's Truman Capote had him physically picked up by Secret Service men and placed onto Pennsylvania Ave. This, of course, was not true. But the story always remained that he got drunk at the White House party and caused trouble. In later years a reporter asked Lee Radziwell (Jackie's sister) about the Gore Vidal and Truman Capote feud. "Oh, everyone knows they're both fags," she said. This almost killed Capote. He had done so much for Lee Radziwell so she could be something by herself. I believe this took place after Capote published several chapters of a new book (never finished) in Esquire: "La Cote Basque," I think. None of his high society friends, except Joann Carson, ever spoke to him again, as it was so obviously about them. Anyway, Gore Vidal and Jackie Kennedy ("two of the coolest people of our generation") got onto an elevator together in NY. Neither one of them knew where to look. They just wouldn't talk. She got off first and said in her Monroe-ish voice, tinged with sarcasm, "Bye." Kathy C Time 1976 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,918135-6,00.html 1981 http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20079225,00.html Edited October 19, 2010 by Terry Mauro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 "Joseph Kennedy Ltd" was named as a major player in bootlegging in a 1927 Canadian inquiry and this made the front page of the NY Times at a time when the future president's father was already a major player in Wall St, Hollywood and real estate and you think no one noticed? How many American's or media made a big deal about the NYSE meeting with the drug lords of Columbia in 1999? Not analogous, Grasso was never approved by a government commission to hold an appointed position and was made president of the NYSE before the meeting. Obviously it would have been brought up IF he faced Senate confirmation for SEC chairman etc. In any case he met with them briefly at a time when they were entering peace talks with the government, he did not engage in illegal business dealings with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Time 1976 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,918135-6,00.html 1981 http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20079225,00.html I don’t know why you think either of those article support Kathy’s or your silly claims. People even said But others in the family disagree. "I don't think anyone wouldn't recognize the main characters—Jackie is Savannah, Lee is Melanie, my father is Uncle Melville and my mother is Aunt Miriam," says Nina's half brother Jamie Auchincloss, a 34-year-old photographer. "Nini," complains Jamie, who is the progeny of Nina's father, Hugh Auchincloss, and Jackie's mother, Janet Bouvier, "said some rather rough things about my father." (Perhaps revealingly, Nina's big stepsister Lee Radziwill was conspicuously absent from the Manhattan launch party.) Hmm no mention of Nina's half brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Len, I know a lot about Gore Vidal. Gore and Jackie were step-siblings once removed. They were at the home at different times and were friendly. She used to wear his plaid shirts for warmth sometimes. Gore Vidal admired her very much. He wrote after she died how intelligent she was and possessed with a profound acerbic wit. He never said anything about her when she was alive, as far as I know. Kathy what evidence do have for the above? The story makes no sense, whose house did they supposedly share? Auchincloss’? Why would Vidal spend time at his ex-stepfather house? His mother remarried in 1942 the same year Auchincloss married Jackie’s mother. A lot of this can be solved by reading Vidal's memoir Palimpsest. If I have to order it from the library and reread it, I will. It won't be a chore, because it's a good book. Unfortunately, as I've said, Vidal has given thousands of interviews, in which the Kennedys are a frequent topic, and his family revelations can be hard to find, especially online, and they're not (or not all) collected in book form. I guarantee, though, that he's been cutting and catty on the family, increasingly so in interviews after 1980, even more so in the 1990s. In my lifetime as a Vidal watcher, it didn't occur to me to catalogue his Kennedy family references - for which I'm suffering here today. Edited October 19, 2010 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Time 1976 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,918135-6,00.html 1981 http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20079225,00.html I don’t know why you think either of those article support Kathy’s or your silly claims. People even said But others in the family disagree. "I don't think anyone wouldn't recognize the main characters—Jackie is Savannah, Lee is Melanie, my father is Uncle Melville and my mother is Aunt Miriam," says Nina's half brother Jamie Auchincloss, a 34-year-old photographer. "Nini," complains Jamie, who is the progeny of Nina's father, Hugh Auchincloss, and Jackie's mother, Janet Bouvier, "said some rather rough things about my father." (Perhaps revealingly, Nina's big stepsister Lee Radziwill was conspicuously absent from the Manhattan launch party.) Hmm no mention of Nina's half brother. What is the silly claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) "Joseph Kennedy Ltd" was named as a major player in bootlegging in a 1927 Canadian inquiry and this made the front page of the NY Times at a time when the future president's father was already a major player in Wall St, Hollywood and real estate and you think no one noticed? How many American's or media made a big deal about the NYSE meeting with the drug lords of Columbia in 1999? Not analogous, Grasso was never approved by a government commission to hold an appointed position and was made president of the NYSE before the meeting. Obviously it would have been brought up IF he faced Senate confirmation for SEC chairman etc. In any case he met with them briefly at a time when they were entering peace talks with the government, he did not engage in illegal business dealings with them Yes, the head of the NYSE goes down to the jungles of Columbia to meet with the FARC to discuss taking them public and it isnt a major international scandal. He also invites them to visit the floor of the exchange. That would have made for some great TV. The head of the drug cartel FARC hitting the gavel to close out the days trading. You're statement was that in 1927 "no one noticed". I responded by showing you no one noticed that Grasso was trying to partner with Dope, Inc. 44th United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom In office 19381940 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Robert Worth Bingham Succeeded by John Gilbert Winant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Maritime Commission In office 19361938 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by Emory S. Land -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission In office 19341935 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by James M. Landis Edited October 19, 2010 by Terry Mauro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 What is the silly claim? That they were close and shared clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 What is the silly claim? That they were close and shared clothing. Shared clothing? I don't recall making such a bizarre claim. What is the purpose of sharing clothing, did I say how it was connected to Vidal knowing some of the family skeletons? That was my only claim, the Vidal knew the family, and was part of this slime mold of "wealthy" families, like the Kennedy's and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 What is the silly claim? That they were close and shared clothing. Shared clothing? I don't recall making such a bizarre claim. What is the purpose of sharing clothing, did I say how it was connected to Vidal knowing some of the family skeletons? That was my only claim, the Vidal knew the family, and was part of this slime mold of "wealthy" families, like the Kennedy's and others. Kathy said they shared clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) "Joseph Kennedy Ltd" was named as a major player in bootlegging in a 1927 Canadian inquiry and this made the front page of the NY Times at a time when the future president's father was already a major player in Wall St, Hollywood and real estate and you think no one noticed? How many American's or media made a big deal about the NYSE meeting with the drug lords of Columbia in 1999? Not analogous, Grasso was never approved by a government commission to hold an appointed position and was made president of the NYSE before the meeting. Obviously it would have been brought up IF he faced Senate confirmation for SEC chairman etc. In any case he met with them briefly at a time when they were entering peace talks with the government, he did not engage in illegal business dealings with them Yes, the head of the NYSE goes down to the jungles of Columbia to meet with the FARC to discuss taking them public and it isnt a major international scandal. He also invites them to visit the floor of the exchange. That would have made for some great TV. The head of the drug cartel FARC hitting the gavel to close out the days trading. You're statement was that in 1927 "no one noticed". I responded by showing you no one noticed that Grasso was trying to partner with Dope, Inc. 44th United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom In office 1938–1940 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Robert Worth Bingham Succeeded by John Gilbert Winant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Maritime Commission In office 1936–1938 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by Emory S. Land -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission In office 1934–1935 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by James M. Landis Sorry it is not analogous because - FARC is primarily a guerrilla group not a drug cartel, it sells drugs to finance its “revolution” - The Colombian government was preparing to negotiate with them and - the country’s president asked Grasso to meet with them. Despite the above he did face criticism VICTIMS' FAMILIES BLAST VISIT WITH GUERRILLAS New York Post - Jul 1, 1999 Page: 34 Section:Business Word Count: 480 Author:JESSE ANGELO Abstract (Document Summary) Ali El-Issa, whose wife Ingrid Washinawatock El-Issa was slain by rebels from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) in March, said [Richard Grasso]'s actions were outrageous and inexcusable. Grasso met with leaders of FARC over the weekend at the request of Colombian President Andres Pastarna, who has been trying to end the civil war that has claimed 35,000 civilian lives since the early 1960s. WHAT A FARC-E: The families of Terence Freitas (top left) and Lahe'ena'e Gay (bottom left), who were killed by FARC guerrillas, accused NYSE boss Richard Grasso, shown embracing Colombian rebel leader [Comandante Raul Reyes], of condoning terrorist activities. AP http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nypost/access/68498034.html?dids=68498034:68498034&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+01,+1999&author=JESSE+ANGELO&pub=New+York+Post&desc=GRASSO+UNDER+FIRE+-+FARC+VICTIMS'+FAMILIES+BLAST+VISIT+WITH+GUERRILLAS&pqatl=google See also: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9VZIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ux4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=2774,5828367&dq=richard+grasso+farc+pastrana&hl=en Thanks for point out that JPK Sr. was confirmed 3, not 2, times by the Senate, another own goal. Edited October 19, 2010 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 "Joseph Kennedy Ltd" was named as a major player in bootlegging in a 1927 Canadian inquiry and this made the front page of the NY Times at a time when the future president's father was already a major player in Wall St, Hollywood and real estate and you think no one noticed? How many American's or media made a big deal about the NYSE meeting with the drug lords of Columbia in 1999? Not analogous, Grasso was never approved by a government commission to hold an appointed position and was made president of the NYSE before the meeting. Obviously it would have been brought up IF he faced Senate confirmation for SEC chairman etc. In any case he met with them briefly at a time when they were entering peace talks with the government, he did not engage in illegal business dealings with them Yes, the head of the NYSE goes down to the jungles of Columbia to meet with the FARC to discuss taking them public and it isnt a major international scandal. He also invites them to visit the floor of the exchange. That would have made for some great TV. The head of the drug cartel FARC hitting the gavel to close out the days trading. You're statement was that in 1927 "no one noticed". I responded by showing you no one noticed that Grasso was trying to partner with Dope, Inc. 44th United States Ambassador to the United Kingdom In office 1938–1940 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Robert Worth Bingham Succeeded by John Gilbert Winant -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Maritime Commission In office 1936–1938 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by Emory S. Land -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission In office 1934–1935 President Franklin D. Roosevelt Preceded by Office created Succeeded by James M. Landis Sorry it is not analogous because - FARC is primarily a guerrilla group not a drug cartel, it sells drugs to finance its “revolution” - The Colombian government was preparing to negotiate with them and - the country’s president asked Grasso to meet with them. Despite the above he did face criticism VICTIMS' FAMILIES BLAST VISIT WITH GUERRILLAS New York Post - Jul 1, 1999 Page: 34 Section:Business Word Count: 480 Author:JESSE ANGELO Abstract (Document Summary) Ali El-Issa, whose wife Ingrid Washinawatock El-Issa was slain by rebels from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) in March, said [Richard Grasso]'s actions were outrageous and inexcusable. Grasso met with leaders of FARC over the weekend at the request of Colombian President Andres Pastarna, who has been trying to end the civil war that has claimed 35,000 civilian lives since the early 1960s. WHAT A FARC-E: The families of Terence Freitas (top left) and Lahe'ena'e Gay (bottom left), who were killed by FARC guerrillas, accused NYSE boss Richard Grasso, shown embracing Colombian rebel leader [Comandante Raul Reyes], of condoning terrorist activities. AP http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nypost/access/68498034.html?dids=68498034:68498034&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+01,+1999&author=JESSE+ANGELO&pub=New+York+Post&desc=GRASSO+UNDER+FIRE+-+FARC+VICTIMS'+FAMILIES+BLAST+VISIT+WITH+GUERRILLAS&pqatl=google See also: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9VZIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ux4EAAAAIBAJ&pg=2774,5828367&dq=richard+grasso+farc+pastrana&hl=en Thanks for point out that JPK Sr. was confirmed 3, not 2, times by the Senate, another own goal. Sorry it is not analogous because - FARC is primarily a guerrilla group not a drug cartel, it sells drugs to finance its “revolution” - The Colombian government was preparing to negotiate with them and - the country’s president asked Grasso to meet with them. More jibberish. The head of the NYSE Richard Grasson meets with FARC, the drug army occupying Columbia to talk about taking them public and it's not on par with the company name "Joseph Kennedy LTD. on the pages of the NY Times in 1927 about bootlegging alcohol through Canada into the USA ? How many American's even knew Joseph Kennedy in 1927? According to your brilliant analysis the FARC is not the drug cartel, but instead they sell drugs to finance their revolution. What's their revolution, oh yeah, topple the legitimate government of Columbia and turn the country over to Dope, Inc. Furthermore accodring to you the Columbian government (Grasso introduced the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia while touring with them in Europe) asks Grasso to negotiate on their behalf. Grasso's solution is to "take the FARC's cocaine business "public" and trade shares in the illegal enterprise on the financial markets. Wall Street and illegal booze, drugs have always been welded at the hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Sorry it is not analogous because - FARC is primarily a guerrilla group not a drug cartel, it sells drugs to finance its “revolution” - The Colombian government was preparing to negotiate with them and - the country’s president asked Grasso to meet with them. More jibberish. The head of the NYSE Richard Grasson meets with FARC, the drug army occupying Columbia to talk about taking them public and it's not on par with the company name "Joseph Kennedy LTD. on the pages of the NY Times in 1927 about bootlegging alcohol through Canada into the USA ? How many American's even knew Joseph Kennedy in 1927? According to your brilliant analysis the FARC is not the drug cartel, but instead they sell drugs to finance their revolution. What's their revolution, oh yeah, topple the legitimate government of Columbia and turn the country over to Dope, Inc. Furthermore accodring to you the Columbian government (Grasso introduced the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia while touring with them in Europe) asks Grasso to negotiate on their behalf. Grasso's solution is to "take the FARC's cocaine business "public" and trade shares in the illegal enterprise on the financial markets. Wall Street and illegal booze, drugs have always been welded at the hip. Terry he spoke to FARC at the behest of the country's president "Grasso introduced the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia while touring with them in Europe" I never heard of him introducing "the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia" or "touring with them in Europe". I think these were figments of you imagination like that supposed article in the Baltimore Sun. "Grasso's solution is to "take the FARC's cocaine business "public" and trade shares in the illegal enterprise on the financial markets." You made that up too. "According to your brilliant analysis the FARC is not the drug cartel, but instead they sell drugs to finance their revolution." Splitting hairs perhaps but they "tax" (and sometimes provide protection for)drug dealers just as they "tax" all businesses in the areas they control. "What's their revolution, oh yeah, topple the legitimate government of Columbia and turn the country over to Dope, Inc" I'm not defending them but even their critics say that taxing drug dealers is a means to an end not their final objective. According to most sources their relations with the dealers is a bit tense. So this is not analogous the main reasons are -Grasso was not involved in drug trafficking or anything else illegal. - He met FARC at the behest of Colombia's president. Edited October 21, 2010 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McGuire Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Figured this was as about good as any place to post this article. It lays "the notion of M.M and JFK being lovers" to rest. Ex-Secret Service officer: I almost shot LBJ By Brett Michael Dykes Retired Secret Service agent Gerald Blaine has a book coming out -- "The Kennedy Detail" -- that contains a rather stunning revelation: In the chaotic wake of the power transfer that took place after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Blaine says he almost shot Lyndon Johnson, when he mistook him for an intruder inside Johnson's D.C. home. [Historic photo: Moving family moment after JFK assassination] In an excerpt from the book on the Huffington Post, Blaine describes standing watch at the Johnson home the night after the Kennedy assassination, and how he heard someone approaching him from behind. The book -- a broader insider account of the presidential security detail during the Kennedy-Johnson era that Blaine wrote with the assistance of journalist Lisa McCubbin -- describes the ensuing scene in the third person. Instinctively Blaine picked up the Thompson submachine gun and activated the bolt on top. The unmistakable sound was similar to racking a shotgun. He firmly pushed the stock into his shoulder, ready to fire. He'd expected the footsteps to retreat with the loud sound of the gun activating, but they kept coming closer. Blaine's heart pounded, his finger firmly on the trigger. "Let me see your face, you bastard." The next instant, there was a face to go with the footsteps. The new President of the United States, Lyndon Baines Johnson, had just rounded the corner, and Blaine had the gun pointed directly at the man's chest. In the blackness of the night, Johnson's face went completely white. It's hard to surmise whether the night-after killing of Johnson would have laid to rest any of the Oliver Stone-style theories of the Kennedy assassination as a massive top-down government cover-up -- or only have caused them to spin more frenetically out of control. Happily, thanks to Blaine's self-restraint, we'll never have to know. [Related: Candidate won't remove ad with vintage JFK footage] Meanwhile, Blaine also uses "The Kennedy Detail" to lay another bit of JFK-related intrigue to rest: The playboy 35th president never did have a romantic dalliance with Marilyn Monroe, the author insists. Blaine says that the film siren was only in the company of Kennedy twice, and that she left alone both times -- though he doesn't appear to say whether those meetings occurred in private, or if not, whether the two were able to adjourn to a more secluded setting at some point. We suppose we'll have to buy the book to get the full story. (Photo: AP) Edited October 21, 2010 by Peter McGuire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Mauro Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 (edited) Sorry it is not analogous because - FARC is primarily a guerrilla group not a drug cartel, it sells drugs to finance its “revolution” - The Colombian government was preparing to negotiate with them and - the country’s president asked Grasso to meet with them. More jibberish. The head of the NYSE Richard Grasson meets with FARC, the drug army occupying Columbia to talk about taking them public and it's not on par with the company name "Joseph Kennedy LTD. on the pages of the NY Times in 1927 about bootlegging alcohol through Canada into the USA ? How many American's even knew Joseph Kennedy in 1927? According to your brilliant analysis the FARC is not the drug cartel, but instead they sell drugs to finance their revolution. What's their revolution, oh yeah, topple the legitimate government of Columbia and turn the country over to Dope, Inc. Furthermore accodring to you the Columbian government (Grasso introduced the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia while touring with them in Europe) asks Grasso to negotiate on their behalf. Grasso's solution is to "take the FARC's cocaine business "public" and trade shares in the illegal enterprise on the financial markets. Wall Street and illegal booze, drugs have always been welded at the hip. Terry he spoke to FARC at the behest of the country's president "Grasso introduced the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia while touring with them in Europe" I never heard of him introducing "the FARC as the legitimate government of Columbia" or "touring with them in Europe". I think these were figments of you imagination like that supposed article in the Baltimore Sun. "Grasso's solution is to "take the FARC's cocaine business "public" and trade shares in the illegal enterprise on the financial markets." You made that up too. "According to your brilliant analysis the FARC is not the drug cartel, but instead they sell drugs to finance their revolution." Splitting hairs perhaps but they "tax" (and sometimes provide protection for)drug dealers just as they "tax" all businesses in the areas they control. "What's their revolution, oh yeah, topple the legitimate government of Columbia and turn the country over to Dope, Inc" I'm not defending them but even their critics say that taxing drug dealers is a means to an end not their final objective. According to most sources their relations with the dealers is a bit tense. So this is not analogous the main reasons are -Grasso was not involved in drug trafficking or anything else illegal. - He met FARC at the behest of Colombia's president. Dope, Inc. Edgar Bronfman along with Kennedy in law California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger push for the legalization of Marijuana in California on behalf of Dope, Inc. Edgar Bronfman penned this pro drug legalization article in the San Jose Mercury News on October 20th, 2010. Ironically Gary Webb a reporter with the San Jose Mercury news broke the story in 1996 about drugs, and Iran/Contra. Former Bronfman family attorney Louis Mortimer Bloomfield was the director of Permindex, the apparatus deployed to assassinate President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963. The Kennedy family continue to collaborate with the killers of President John F. Kennedy. Quote: California voters often approach elections with a sharp recognition of the importance of their decisions, not just in their own lives, but in the future of the state and the nation. Seldom has this been truer than the votes they will cast next month on their ballot measure known as Proposition 19. If it becomes law, marijuana will become legal to grow, sell and use as a step toward comparable regulations and taxation as have been in effect in the United States regarding alcohol since the repeal of Prohibition 77 years ago. First, our economy will receive an enormous boost. Tax revenues are likely to jump first, followed by a significant reduction in the tens of billions of government spending on the costs of interdiction and enforcement, including our spending on police, courts and prisons. Third, we can become a more rational country in our approach to treatment for those who suffer from the abuses and addictions associated with the many drug dangers in our society. Ironically, Americans enhanced our understanding of the simple fact of equivalence -- there is the same amount of the same ingredient -- potable ethanol -- in most beer, wine and spirits. Now we need to take the opposite step with regard to drugs by focusing on how different are the dangers and treatments. Fourth, I am reminded that two of our greatest intellectual leaders with staunchly opposite views on many topics take virtually the same view on legalizing marijuana. Milton Friedman, the godfather of conservative economics, led a group of more than 500 American economists who endorsed a Harvard study on the costs of marijuana prohibition and the revenue to be gained from legalizing it. At the other end of the philosophical spectrum, Ira Glasser, the former longtime leader of the American Civil Liberties Union is currently speaking out in the marijuana legalization movement. Finally, and despite continued opposition to the proposition itself, California just passed, and the governor just signed, legislation that essentially decriminalizes the state's laws regarding marijuana. This in a very positive step because it has strong similarities to the 8-year-old laws of Portugal, which experts like those of the Cato Institute have long believed is the most effective decriminalization framework regarding all drugs to date. That experience found that "none of the nightmare scenarios ... from rampant increases in drug usage among the young to the transformation of Lisbon into a haven for 'drug tourists' has occurred." Moreover, they found that "drug-related pathologies -- such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage -- have decreased dramatically." With America's experience with alcohol prohibition and the prolonged success of Portugal's halfway measure of decriminalization, it's time for the voters to lead their tentative politicians by passing Proposition 19 and legalizing marijuana. EDGAR M. BRONFMAN is a former chairman and CEO of Seagram Company Ltd. He wrote this article for this newspaper. http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_16390287 Edited October 26, 2010 by Terry Mauro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) Gore Vidal, Palimpsest: A Memoir. (New York: Random House, 1995) Excerpts in italics are adapted from notes Vidal made in 1961. Vidal on Joe Kennedy: "I thought even then that, excepting [Jack], the whole family was pretty deplorable, while the father belonged in jail, along with his close friend Frank Costello. In fact once a week, until Joe's stroke, the boss of the mob and the president's father had dinner together in the Central Park South Kennedy apartment. An ancient Teamster would give each a massage first, and sometimes he would stay to dinner; once, he reported their conversation to the producer Ray Stark, who told me (but now denies the story). Of course, Joe made no secret of his underworld connections, unavoidable for a man who had cornered the Scotch whiskey market." (348) JFK on why England slept: "I said that one would occasionally hear the voice of Joe in Jack. The other night at Hyannis, Jack got on the subject of what he called ' that old drunk Churchill. What was so marvelous about him? Nobody could've mishandled that war. He didn't have a chance of going down, because we wouldn't have allowed it.' " (381) JFK on plot structure: "Jackie asks Jack to tell me the plot he had thought of for a movie. He says he has only the beginning. He gets into the White House elevator in the morning.... The camera cuts to his office 'and there is Lyndon. Where is the president? No one knows.' He grins: 'It's just Lyndon and Sam [Rayburn] then.' " (364) Vidal on the state of the nation: "...[Jack] would soon be exhorting [Americans] to 'bear any burden' so that freedom, or something, might prevail in a 'twilight time....' But then his own fragile health was itself a kind of premature twilight, So why not share it? Cuba, Laos, Berlin, Vietnam - he would keep us in permanent crisis. Better night than twilight?" (356) "We had been carefully conditioned to believe that the gallant, lonely USA was, on every side, beleaguered by the Soviet Union, a monolithic Omnipotency; we now know that they were weak and reactive while we were strong and provocative. Once Jack had inherited the make-believe war against Communism in general and the Soviet in particular, he proceeded, unknown to all but a few, to change the rules of the game. He was about to turn Truman's pseudo-war into a real war. He was going to fight, somewhere, anywhere. Cuba had gone wrong. At Vienna, Laos had been marginalized as a place of no essential interest to us or to the Soviet. Yet in June and July of 1961, Jack had called for a $5.5 billion military appropriation to deal with what he termed the 'Berlin crisis.' "...Jack had just acquired the powers to call up 250,000 reservists; he could also mobilize two army divisions, as well as fifty-four air squadrons. During Jack's brief reign, military spending rose $17 billion above that of the Eisenhower years, 'constituting,' according to the historian C, N, Degler, 'one of the largest and swiftest build-ups of military power in history.' Although Jack had claimed in the campaign that there was a 'missile gap' between the United States and the Soviet Union, the gap proved to be in our favor, as he later admitted. So the build-up was simply to get us ready for a serious war somewhere or other. The venue was of minor importance, glory all important - but glory for whom? "Since politicians say what their auditor wants to hear, Jack made the $5.5 billion military build-up sound like so much 'pump-priming for liberals,' a group he deeply despised. 'No one can be liberal enough for the New York Post,' he used to say. But then the speed with which so many liberals abandoned Stevenson to join him was a source of his amused contempt as he himself went about courting conservatives like John J. McCloy." (362) Stumping for Vidal in the congressional district of Dutchess County, NY, 1960: "Later, into a microphone, he introduced me as 'a relation of my wife' who had ' vigor,' the key word that year." (347) Edited November 20, 2010 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now