Was Irv Kupcinet's Role Obscured A Consequence of Penn Jones's Writing?

[Guest Tom Scully]

...It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.

In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?

It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.

I find that Irv Kupcinet is at the center of the chain of relationships and acquaintances of many of the people I have researched related to the background of Jack Ruby and to Albert E. Jenner, Jr. As a result, I suspect that he has not received the attention of assassination researchers I would expect someone in his unique position, awareness, and contacts would have received if Penn Jones had not linked the sudden, late November, 1963 death of Kupcinet's daughter, Karyn, with an anonymous, prescient call to a California telephone operator, minutes before JFK was assassinated.

Reading this piece escalated my suspicion that Kupcinet had another agenda having nothing to do with Jones's unsupported claim that Karyn Kupcinet was that anonymous caller who tried to warn that the president was about to be killed.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kup-vs-jfk/Content?oid=881114

Kup vs. JFK

Chronicle of a Columnist's Obsession

By Jim Kielty

Year In Review archives »

In an essay on the Oliver Stone film JFK, published a month after his laudatory review in the Sun-Times, Roger Ebert wrote: "Never in my years as a newspaperman have I seen one subject pummeled so mercilessly and joylessly as this movie that questions the official wisdom on the assassination of John F. Kennedy."

Ebert didn't have to look far to find the chief Chicago-area pummeler: his Sun-Times colleague Irv Kupcinet has repeatedly used his column to flail JFK, Oliver Stone, and anyone else who has dared to challenge the findings of the Warren Commission report.

Between December 17 of last year, when he first reviewed JFK as the lead item in his column, and May 22 of this year, when the Sun-Times reviewed the home video version (and I stopped counting), Kup ran more than two dozen items on Stone, his film, and other Kennedy assassination subjects. He also called for the opening of sealed government files on the assassination, venturing that the information contained therein will put an end to "far-fetched conspiracy theories," by which he seems to mean anything other than the Warren Commission report.

Let's run the highlights:

December 17, 1991: Kup says JFK may be "the most controversial movie of our day." He reports that Oliver Stone "has come under severe criticism for twisting the story to fit his own theory." He faults Stone for making former New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison the hero of the movie and for claiming the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. were all linked in some conspiracy. "Stone's movie probably will be a box office hit," Kup predicts, "but in reaching a huge audience he owes history some relevance to the truth."

December 19: Kup mentions another assassination film set for release, Ruby, calling it a "powerful role" for star Danny Aiello.

December 22: Kup's Sunday column carries a photo of the now-aged Governor John Connally of Texas with a caption promoting his planned appearance the next day on CBS This Morning, where, Kup says, Connally will "give his opinion of the movie JFK."

December 23: "The new movie JFK was trashed on David Brinkley's ABC Sunday show," Kup reports. "The various theories of a conspiracy in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in the Oliver Stone production were ridiculed by the panelists, as we previously did."

December 24: Kup criticizes the syndicated Geraldo show telecast in Chicago on Channel Nine the day before. The guests on the show, including the supposed mistress of President Lyndon B. Johnson, claimed that LBJ was the "prime mover in the assassination." Calling the show's theme "the nadir of speculation," Kup asks, "wouldn't Bobby Kennedy, then attorney general . . . have exposed such a plot?"

December 25: On his Christmas wish list for assorted celebrities Kup suggests the following: "Oliver Stone--another theory for his collection of astounding assumptions on the assassination of JFK: the butler did it."

Kup then took a vacation and resumed his column on Sunday, January 5. It took him a week to return to the topic of JFK.

January 12: Kup reports that Oliver Stone is coming to Chicago to tape an Oprah Winfrey show. "I trust Oprah will press him on all the criticism of his convoluted conspiracy theory for the assassination."

January 19: In his lead item this Sunday Kup again plays the Bobby card: "The major flaw in all the theories about the JFK assassination, especially those cited in the movie JFK, is failure to mention Bobby Kennedy, then U.S. attorney general with tremendous resources at his demand. Can anybody believe that Bobby, a tenacious prosecutor, wouldn't have taken action to pursue every conspiracy theory to determine if some person(s) other than Lee Harvey Oswald had killed his beloved brother? Doesn't make sense."

January 23: Kup reports that former House speaker Tip O'Neill "became infuriated" during an interview with radio personality Eddie Schwartz when asked about LBJ's alleged involvement in the assassination. "Meanwhile," Kup adds, "the pressure to open all the records, including Warren Commission documents, is gaining momentum. That would help clarify the confusion now rampant."

January 26: Again Kup leads his Sunday column with the assassination: the nation is "going ballistic" over it, he says. Comparing the current hysteria to public reactions to the deaths of Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, and William McKinley, Kup quotes Chicago historian Ralph Newman, who explains that the nation "refuses to accept the logical explanation for the sudden death of a hero."

February 5: Kup plugs Oliver Stone's appearance on Dan Rather's CBS show 48 Hours, which he seems to have previewed. He identifies Rather as a "severe critic" of the film and adds: "One more time: Stone makes one admission in the interview. He did make up some points in the movie. In doing so, he exercised his legitimate license as an artist to tell a story. But Stone insists that did not alter the movie's conclusion that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK."

February 6: A Chicago alderman has asked Mayor Daley to have the Police Department release its files on Jack Ruby, to determine if Ruby had any connection with the assassination. "That, Your Honor, will be a waste of time and money," Kup advises.

Kup goes on in a second paragraph of this column to quote his old pal Elmer Gertz, who worked as an attorney for Jack Ruby and considers any effort to link him to a conspiracy "sheer madness." According to Gertz, Kup reports, Ruby's shooting of Oswald was a "moment of madness . . . by a self-anointed avenger, anothing more." Kup concludes with a quick slap at Geraldo Rivera: "The search of the Ruby files will be as fruitful as Geraldo Rivera's opening of Al Capone's vault."

February 14: Kup notes that Kevin Costner, who plays Jim Garrison in JFK, portrayed a character in an earlier film, Bull Durham, who "believes in the soul, hard liquor and that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone." Kup asks: "Cinema verite?" The column is illustrated by a stock shot of Costner dressed as Eliot Ness in The Untouchables. The caption reads: "Inconsistencies in 'character.'"

February 28: Kup plugs an appearance by former president Gerald Ford, the lone surviving member of the Warren Commission, on the A&E cable show Investigative Reports. Kup says the former president "minces no words in describing the conspiracy theory in the movie 'JFK.' He calls it 'hogwash.' Adds Ford, 'Not one credible piece of evidence has surfaced to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the lone assassin.'"

March 15: The lead item in Kup's Sunday column reports on an upcoming appearance in Chicago by Oliver Stone, who is to receive an award as "Director of the Decade" from the Chicago International Film Festival. Kup adds that Stone will join a "panel of authorities" on the JFK assassination.

March 29: One day before the Oscars, Kup allows as how JFK, which is up for a slew of awards, "helped get Congress to pass legislation that would open the files on the assassination." But he adds that "the movie had a lot of help," pointing out that Warner Bros., producers of the film, retained Hill & Knowlton's Frank Mankiewicz, former press secretary to Robert F. Kennedy, "to lobby Congress to take such action."

March 30: Kup takes a pre-Oscar shot at JFK's director: "If Oliver Stone doesn't win an award," he asks, "will he charge conspiracy?"

April 1: Kup's Oscar wrap-up says: "Worst Loser--Oliver Stone, whose 'JFK' failed to score except for two technical awards, was victim of a conspiracy, no doubt. Stone was quoted as blaming the media and gays for denouncing the film."

April 3: Kup reports that Motion Picture Association president Jack Valenti, a former aide to LBJ, "denounced 'JFK' as a 'hoax, a smear and pure fiction.'" Kup explains that Valenti waited until after the Academy Awards to denounce the film so as not to influence the voting. "He was especially upset," Kup claims, "because of his loyalty to his former boss . . . who was implicated in the movie as part of a conspiracy to kill JFK."

In the same column, Kup sneaks in another plug for old friend Elmer Gertz. "'Who Shot JFK?' will be Elmer Gertz's topic at Congregation Kol Ami tonight," Kup reports, adding, "Gertz wrote the definitive biography of Jack Ruby."

April 7: Kup again comes to the defense of the Warren Commission, writing, "Dr. Charles Crenshaw, who waited 29 years to 'reveal' that President JFK was shot by 'bullets in front of his head' as described in his book, JFK: Conspiracy of Silence, hereby is awarded the procrastinator medal."

April 15: Kup notes "overwhelming support" to have the government open the files on the assassination of President Kennedy. "But don't expect to see the files shortly," he cautions. "The House appointed a five-member board to review and release all the documents--but it has two years to complete its work."

April 22: Kup again mentions that Oliver Stone is being honored by the Chicago International Film Festival and that Stone "also will join a pre-dinner panel on the JFK assassination."

April 30: Kup criticizes the Justice Department's "surprising opposition to releasing" the Kennedy assassination files, writing that this plays "into the hands of those who insist there was a conspiracy." He then reports that U.S. Representative Henry Hyde wrote to Attorney General William Barr to ask why the government opposed disclosure of the files. Hyde's letter, according to Kup, claims the government's refusal "is supporting the paranoia of Oliver Stone and his conspiracy comrades."

May 21: After three weeks of silence on the issue, Kup notes an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association by the two pathologists who performed the autopsy on the body of President Kennedy. They claim that the bullets that killed the president came from the rear "and confirm the Warren Commission report. That should cause the government to speed up its release of the official reports on the assassination," Kup continues, "and put an end to all those far-fetched conspiracy theories." Kup ends the item by stating: "Some doubters, nevertheless, will continue to hold conspiracy theories, largely because of the movie 'JFK.'"

May 22: Kup reports on Oliver Stone's reaction to the JAMA report, quoting Hollywood columnist Army Archerd as saying that Stone took a "so what?" position. Nevertheless, Kup insists that the claim of the two pathologists "deflates Stone's conspiracy theory that another person was involved." Coincidentally, the home video version of JFK is reviewed in the Sun-Times on this day. The thumbnail critique quotes Roger Ebert's original review, which says the film "convincingly argues the official version of JFK's death is flatly impossible."

What did Kup have against JFK? I asked him recently, and he replied that he thought Stone "went overboard" in tying government agencies to the assassination. He said Jim Garrison, the prosecutor played in the film by Kevin Costner, was "held in low esteem" in New Orleans for his prosecution of Clay Shaw as part of the assassination conspiracy. He felt that if Stone's film went unchallenged, it could give "the wrong impression to young viewers" whose only knowledge of the assassination might come from the film.

But perhaps there's a more personal dimension to Kup's animus. A hint of it surfaces in his column of February 9, which I've held aside from the foregoing chronology. In this Sunday column Kup writes, "The NBC 'Today' show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter."

Calling the inclusion of his daughter "an atrocious outrage," Kup goes on to acknowledge that his daughter died violently in a still unsolved Hollywood murder and that the list including her name was published in a book several years earlier. He denies his daughter had any knowledge of the assassination and says that for the Today show "to repeat the calumny is reprehensible." He concludes by asking the show to "rectify the error."

What exactly had the Today show done? The week of February 3 through 7, Today carried a five-part series entitled "Who Killed JFK?" The last segment included an interview with Oliver Stone conducted by Bryant Gumbel. Immediately after the Stone interview and concluding the five-part series, Gumbel said: "As if JFK's murder weren't enough, consider this: in the first 13 years following the assassination, 37 people with some relation to the case died violently. The odds against that, actuaries say, are higher than 1 in 10,000. We thought showing you who they were, along with how they died, would make an intriguing footnote to our series. They add further mystery to one of the great puzzles of our time." The first name on the list was that of Karyn Kupcinet, preceded by the description, "Murdered--November, 1963."

The book Kup referred to in his February 9 column is Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, by Jim Marrs. It describes Karyn Kupcinet as a "TV host's daughter who was overheard telling of JFK's death prior to 11/22/63." A similar "mysterious deaths list" was carried in another book on the assassination, High Treason: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the New Evidence of Conspiracy by Robert Groden and Harrison Livingstone. These authors refer to Karyn as a "daughter of a childhood friend of Ruby. . . . She was murdered two days after Kennedy. She had foreknowledge of the assassination and was overheard by a telephone operator talking about it." (In his autobiography Kup says he knew Ruby "when he was a one-time organizer for the Waste and Material Handlers Union.")

Asked if there might be some connection, conscious or otherwise, between his attitude toward assassination conspiracy theories and the fact that his daughter's name has been dragged into them, Kup said the insinuations about his daughter are as outlandish as the theories. He said there is no connection whatsoever.

These are just a small sample of the Kupcinet background I think have been sorely overlooked because of Penn Jones's comparatively unsubstantiated distractions, linking Karyn Kupcinet to an anonymous phone call.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/11/us/irv-kupcinet-91-dies-chronicled-chicago-for-60-years.html

Irv Kupcinet, 91, Dies; Chronicled Chicago for 60 Years

By RICHARD SEVERO Published: November 11, 2003

..He believed that each column should end with a dash of humor, but he never thought of himself as a humorist. So he welcomed the participation of ''amateur quipsters.'' One such source was known as Ivan Bunny, but Bunny's offerings were actually the work of two brothers, Jimmy and Ivan Colitz, the latter an auto parts supervisor....

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-2004/The-Lost-World-of-Kup/index.php?cp=7&si=6#artanc

...When Bugsy Siegel was shot to death in the Beverly Hills mansion of his girlfriend, Virginia Hill, in 1947, a True magazine reporter named Mike Stern called Kup. Hill had been hiding out, and Stern had heard she was living on money funneled to her by a local Mob bookkeeper. Stern guessed correctly that Kup might know him.

Kup arranged a dinner at the Blackstone Hotel, and the bookkeeper mentioned in passing that Hill was staying in a small town in Montana. Stern found her and got his scoop. Why didn't the mobsters retaliate against Kup? Stern, now 93, says they liked him. And by then he was too powerful to harm...

http://www.google.com/search?q=furs%20colitz%20clover%20bar%20&hl=en&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1,ar:1,bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=np

The Outfit: The Role of Chicago's Underworld in the Shaping of ... - Page 153

Gus Russo - 2003 - 496 pages - Preview

...Hill had seen how many gamblers were pawning off their wives' furs to her real Chicago love, gambling boss Ira Colitz. Hill convinced Colitz to convert his North Clark Street Clover Bar backroom into a walk-in cooler to store furs that Hill in turn sold to her uptown pals; Hill also occasionally trafficked in hot diamonds acquired in the same manner...

http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.+hauser+clover+bar+clark&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=ewW0TLycNMWAlAec4ODxCg&ved=0CBYQpwU

File Tax Lien Here Against Virginia Hill

‎- Chicago Tribune - Jul 10, 1951

Epstein, who, Mrs. Hauser tes. tified, lived at 25 E. Delaware pl. and spent much of his in the Clover Bar, 172 N. Clark st., could not be (found in either...

JOSEPH EPSTEIN ELUSIVE DESPITE VIRGINIA'S TIPS

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Mar 16, 1951

Virginia whose last name has been Hauser since a recent mar riage said she had contacted Ep stein at the Cloverbar a cocktail lounge at 172 N Clark st and ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=*a+fascinating+yarn+about+Humphrey+Bogart+and+Ira+Colitz&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: KUP'S COLUMN

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - May 2, 1986

AVENUE M magazine in its first issue under new publisher Frank Sullivan features a fascinating yarn about Humphrey Bogart and Ira Colitz man about town and County Board President George Dunne's nightly dinner companion The story tells how Colitz then a World War II GI stationed on the West Coast was in the arms of lovely damsel when Bogart knocked on the door Bogie and Ira thereafter became dear friends And Colitz still is trying to find that girl..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=tycoon+mike+ben+segal++&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Merry Christmas to all of you who made...

‎- Chicago Sun-Times - Dec 22, 1988

To George Dunne Ira Colitz Jesse White and his CabriniGreen tumblers Mr and Mrs Ben Segal and son Mike the tycoon To Edgar Shane the kind of precinct...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=ben+segal+furrier&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Segal's courtship of powerful friends...

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - Jan 29, 2002

Michael Segal built Near North Insurance from a few filing drawers in George Dunne's living room to one of the largest independent brokerage firms in the... learned from his father, Ben, who owned a furrier at Water Tower Place, ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=indicted+furniture+executive+near+north+insurance&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

IRA COLITZ, INSURANCE EXEC, 42ND WARD OPERATIVE

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Jan 26, 1998

A native of Chicago's West Side Mr Colitz worked for 25 years at Near North Insurance Agency most recently as an executive vice president and he served as a...In 1974 Mr Colitz was indicted on federal charges of extorting money from a furniture company for a favorable zoning change He was acquitted a year later..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=michael+segal+near+north+insurance+prison&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Near North Insurance Brokerage Exec Charged with $20M In...

‎Insurance Journal - Jan 31, 2002

According to the Chicago Tribune, Michael Segal, CEO of Near North Insurance ... If convicted, Segal could face up to 25 years in prison for insurance and ...

Segal gets rebuke, 10 years ; Judge sees 'dark side' to...

‎

- Chicago Tribune - Dec 1, 2005

Insurance powerhouse Michael Segal, whose personal empire included a Gold Coast ... And although Segal's company, Near North Insurance Brokerage, ...

Chicago Sun-Times : Segal gets 10 yrs....‎ - Chicago Sun-Times

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK‎ - Page 179

by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996

"....Blakey chose to link Rosselli to Trafficante, by citing his "management role" in

the Havana Sans Souci casino. More pertinent was probably the fact that the Sans Scouci was operated, at this time, by Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick, the suspected killers of James Ragen (9 AH 948). Also at this time, Rosselli's most constant companion was "Major" Charkes "Babe" Baron, a suspected murderer who was also a brigadier-general in the Illinois National Guard. Baron was a protege of Chicago Democratic machine leader Jake Arvey, as were Yaras and Patrick; and an even closer friend of Patrick Hoy, the Henry Crown employee at General Dynamics who arranged for Sidney Korshak to work for Hilton Hotels. Hoy was also the general manager of the Sherman Hotel in Chicago, a hangout frequented ny Ruby and Jones in 1947 (22 WH 366; 24 WH 518 Chicago crime commission, report, 1963)"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=queen+seat+pat+hoy+at+his+farm&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

"Back in 1958, when Queen Elizabeth II dropped in to the Pump Room and its ... Then they shipped the 'throne' off to hotelier Pat Hoy's farm,...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=hoy+know+nothing+about+mixing+concrete&btnG=Search+Books

Kup's Chicago‎ - Page 53

by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages

"But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of.....

http://www.nwitimes.com/entertainment/columnists/offbeat/article_371aff14-0c99-565a-8204-5f89adb0007e.html

...I feel honored that I had the chance to become friends with Kupcinet late in his career, after I joined the Chicago Headline Club. And when I'd visit him at the apartment home he shared in downtown Chicago with his beloved wife Essie, who died in 2001, he loved to point out he had the original Pump Room Booth One in his home...

....Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ...

- Dec 25

File

of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's column... JACK L .

RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark.

Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which

included Ruby, Colitz and their ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1289.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ...

Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column

"Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963,

mini, 74PR II : ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1236.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ...

- 12/27/08

Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1199.pdf

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/20th_Issue/arrb_13.html

ARRB 13th Batch

The Federal Register February 20,1996 p. 6346-6347

Reviewed by Joseph Backes

FBI Documents: Open in Full

...Document # 124-10068-10016 Is a two page document from SAC, Denver to Director dated 11/25/63.

DN [ ]-C frequented Clover Bar next door to Sherman Hotel, Chicago, Illinois, 1946 to 1949. He described this bar as a hangout for hoodlum element. At that time it was operated by Ira Colitz who was described as a personal friend of Colonel Jacob Arvey, well known Chicago political figure. Colitz possibly was recently a candidate for Alderman in Chicago and resides in penthouse apartment on Michigan Boulevard.

Informant related Jack Ruby, whom he identified from Newspaper photographs, frequented Clover bar in about 1946 or 47 and was an acquaintance of Ira Colitz and possibly was a former school mate of Colitz on the West Side of Chicago. He does not know nature of Ruby's activities in Chicago.

[Kathleen Collins]

...It is nice to know that people are using the Forum for research. However, I am surprised that the "Cloak of Darkness" did not look at my web pages on these people. He would have discovered the sources for my views on the deaths of these three women. He says I claimed that Irv Kupcinet was a close friend of Jack Ruby. Did I? What I did say was that Irv Kupcinet got to know Jack Ruby in Chicago in the 1940s. According to W. Penn Jones he kept in contact with Ruby (he supplied Kupcinet with information about the Mafia, etc.). Penn Jones claimed that Kupcinet discovered that Ruby was involved in a plot to assassinate Kennedy. Jones argues that Irv passed this information on to his daughter Karyn.

In his book, Forgive My Grief, Jones suggests that Karyn might have supplied her father with information about the assassination. He argues that "a few days before the assassination, Karyn Kupcinet, 23, was trying to place a long distance telephone call from the Los Angeles area. According to reports, the long distance operator heard Miss Kupcinet scream into the telephone that President Kennedy was going to be killed."

Karyn Kupcinet's body was discovered on 30th November, 1963. Police estimated that she had been dead for two days. The New York Times reported that she had been strangled. Her actor boyfriend, Andrew Prine was the main suspect but he was never charged with the murder and the crime remains unsolved.

Some researchers have claimed that there was a link between the death of Kupcinet and the assassination of Kennedy. It was argued that the conspirators were trying to frighten off Kupcinet from telling what he knew. Kupcinet rejected this idea. He wrote in the Chicago Sun-Times (9th November, 1992): "The NBC Today Show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter. That is an atrocious outrage. She did die violently in a Hollywood murder case still unsolved. That same list was published in a book years ago with no justification or verification. The book left the impression that some on the list may have been killed to silence them because of knowledge of the assassination. Nothing could be further from the truth in my daughter's case."

Was he telling the truth or was he protecting the lives of other members of the family?

It has to be remembered that another journalist claimed that his daughter's murder had nothing to do with the assassination of JFK. According to Lee Israel (Kilgallen: An Intimate Biography) James Kilgallen, a famous investigative journalist, was quick to announce that his daughter's death had nothing to do with the JFK case.

I find that Irv Kupcinet is at the center of the chain of relationships and acquaintances of many of the people I have researched related to the background of Jack Ruby and to Albert E. Jenner, Jr. As a result, I suspect that he has not received the attention of assassination researchers I would expect someone in his unique position, awareness, and contacts would have received if Penn Jones had not linked the sudden, late November, 1963 death of Kupcinet's daughter, Karyn, with an anonymous, prescient call to a California telephone operator, minutes before JFK was assassinated.

Reading this piece escalated my suspicion that Kupcinet had another agenda having nothing to do with Jones's unsupported claim that Karyn Kupcinet was that anonymous caller who tried to warn that the president was about to be killed.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kup-vs-jfk/Content?oid=881114

Kup vs. JFK

Chronicle of a Columnist's Obsession

By Jim Kielty

Year In Review archives »

In an essay on the Oliver Stone film JFK, published a month after his laudatory review in the Sun-Times, Roger Ebert wrote: "Never in my years as a newspaperman have I seen one subject pummeled so mercilessly and joylessly as this movie that questions the official wisdom on the assassination of John F. Kennedy."

Ebert didn't have to look far to find the chief Chicago-area pummeler: his Sun-Times colleague Irv Kupcinet has repeatedly used his column to flail JFK, Oliver Stone, and anyone else who has dared to challenge the findings of the Warren Commission report.

Between December 17 of last year, when he first reviewed JFK as the lead item in his column, and May 22 of this year, when the Sun-Times reviewed the home video version (and I stopped counting), Kup ran more than two dozen items on Stone, his film, and other Kennedy assassination subjects. He also called for the opening of sealed government files on the assassination, venturing that the information contained therein will put an end to "far-fetched conspiracy theories," by which he seems to mean anything other than the Warren Commission report.

Let's run the highlights:

December 17, 1991: Kup says JFK may be "the most controversial movie of our day." He reports that Oliver Stone "has come under severe criticism for twisting the story to fit his own theory." He faults Stone for making former New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison the hero of the movie and for claiming the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. were all linked in some conspiracy. "Stone's movie probably will be a box office hit," Kup predicts, "but in reaching a huge audience he owes history some relevance to the truth."

December 19: Kup mentions another assassination film set for release, Ruby, calling it a "powerful role" for star Danny Aiello.

December 22: Kup's Sunday column carries a photo of the now-aged Governor John Connally of Texas with a caption promoting his planned appearance the next day on CBS This Morning, where, Kup says, Connally will "give his opinion of the movie JFK."

December 23: "The new movie JFK was trashed on David Brinkley's ABC Sunday show," Kup reports. "The various theories of a conspiracy in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in the Oliver Stone production were ridiculed by the panelists, as we previously did."

December 24: Kup criticizes the syndicated Geraldo show telecast in Chicago on Channel Nine the day before. The guests on the show, including the supposed mistress of President Lyndon B. Johnson, claimed that LBJ was the "prime mover in the assassination." Calling the show's theme "the nadir of speculation," Kup asks, "wouldn't Bobby Kennedy, then attorney general . . . have exposed such a plot?"

December 25: On his Christmas wish list for assorted celebrities Kup suggests the following: "Oliver Stone--another theory for his collection of astounding assumptions on the assassination of JFK: the butler did it."

Kup then took a vacation and resumed his column on Sunday, January 5. It took him a week to return to the topic of JFK.

January 12: Kup reports that Oliver Stone is coming to Chicago to tape an Oprah Winfrey show. "I trust Oprah will press him on all the criticism of his convoluted conspiracy theory for the assassination."

January 19: In his lead item this Sunday Kup again plays the Bobby card: "The major flaw in all the theories about the JFK assassination, especially those cited in the movie JFK, is failure to mention Bobby Kennedy, then U.S. attorney general with tremendous resources at his demand. Can anybody believe that Bobby, a tenacious prosecutor, wouldn't have taken action to pursue every conspiracy theory to determine if some person(s) other than Lee Harvey Oswald had killed his beloved brother? Doesn't make sense."

January 23: Kup reports that former House speaker Tip O'Neill "became infuriated" during an interview with radio personality Eddie Schwartz when asked about LBJ's alleged involvement in the assassination. "Meanwhile," Kup adds, "the pressure to open all the records, including Warren Commission documents, is gaining momentum. That would help clarify the confusion now rampant."

January 26: Again Kup leads his Sunday column with the assassination: the nation is "going ballistic" over it, he says. Comparing the current hysteria to public reactions to the deaths of Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, and William McKinley, Kup quotes Chicago historian Ralph Newman, who explains that the nation "refuses to accept the logical explanation for the sudden death of a hero."

February 5: Kup plugs Oliver Stone's appearance on Dan Rather's CBS show 48 Hours, which he seems to have previewed. He identifies Rather as a "severe critic" of the film and adds: "One more time: Stone makes one admission in the interview. He did make up some points in the movie. In doing so, he exercised his legitimate license as an artist to tell a story. But Stone insists that did not alter the movie's conclusion that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK."

February 6: A Chicago alderman has asked Mayor Daley to have the Police Department release its files on Jack Ruby, to determine if Ruby had any connection with the assassination. "That, Your Honor, will be a waste of time and money," Kup advises.

Kup goes on in a second paragraph of this column to quote his old pal Elmer Gertz, who worked as an attorney for Jack Ruby and considers any effort to link him to a conspiracy "sheer madness." According to Gertz, Kup reports, Ruby's shooting of Oswald was a "moment of madness . . . by a self-anointed avenger, anothing more." Kup concludes with a quick slap at Geraldo Rivera: "The search of the Ruby files will be as fruitful as Geraldo Rivera's opening of Al Capone's vault."

February 14: Kup notes that Kevin Costner, who plays Jim Garrison in JFK, portrayed a character in an earlier film, Bull Durham, who "believes in the soul, hard liquor and that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone." Kup asks: "Cinema verite?" The column is illustrated by a stock shot of Costner dressed as Eliot Ness in The Untouchables. The caption reads: "Inconsistencies in 'character.'"

February 28: Kup plugs an appearance by former president Gerald Ford, the lone surviving member of the Warren Commission, on the A&E cable show Investigative Reports. Kup says the former president "minces no words in describing the conspiracy theory in the movie 'JFK.' He calls it 'hogwash.' Adds Ford, 'Not one credible piece of evidence has surfaced to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the lone assassin.'"

March 15: The lead item in Kup's Sunday column reports on an upcoming appearance in Chicago by Oliver Stone, who is to receive an award as "Director of the Decade" from the Chicago International Film Festival. Kup adds that Stone will join a "panel of authorities" on the JFK assassination.

March 29: One day before the Oscars, Kup allows as how JFK, which is up for a slew of awards, "helped get Congress to pass legislation that would open the files on the assassination." But he adds that "the movie had a lot of help," pointing out that Warner Bros., producers of the film, retained Hill & Knowlton's Frank Mankiewicz, former press secretary to Robert F. Kennedy, "to lobby Congress to take such action."

March 30: Kup takes a pre-Oscar shot at JFK's director: "If Oliver Stone doesn't win an award," he asks, "will he charge conspiracy?"

April 1: Kup's Oscar wrap-up says: "Worst Loser--Oliver Stone, whose 'JFK' failed to score except for two technical awards, was victim of a conspiracy, no doubt. Stone was quoted as blaming the media and gays for denouncing the film."

April 3: Kup reports that Motion Picture Association president Jack Valenti, a former aide to LBJ, "denounced 'JFK' as a 'hoax, a smear and pure fiction.'" Kup explains that Valenti waited until after the Academy Awards to denounce the film so as not to influence the voting. "He was especially upset," Kup claims, "because of his loyalty to his former boss . . . who was implicated in the movie as part of a conspiracy to kill JFK."

In the same column, Kup sneaks in another plug for old friend Elmer Gertz. "'Who Shot JFK?' will be Elmer Gertz's topic at Congregation Kol Ami tonight," Kup reports, adding, "Gertz wrote the definitive biography of Jack Ruby."

April 7: Kup again comes to the defense of the Warren Commission, writing, "Dr. Charles Crenshaw, who waited 29 years to 'reveal' that President JFK was shot by 'bullets in front of his head' as described in his book, JFK: Conspiracy of Silence, hereby is awarded the procrastinator medal."

April 15: Kup notes "overwhelming support" to have the government open the files on the assassination of President Kennedy. "But don't expect to see the files shortly," he cautions. "The House appointed a five-member board to review and release all the documents--but it has two years to complete its work."

April 22: Kup again mentions that Oliver Stone is being honored by the Chicago International Film Festival and that Stone "also will join a pre-dinner panel on the JFK assassination."

April 30: Kup criticizes the Justice Department's "surprising opposition to releasing" the Kennedy assassination files, writing that this plays "into the hands of those who insist there was a conspiracy." He then reports that U.S. Representative Henry Hyde wrote to Attorney General William Barr to ask why the government opposed disclosure of the files. Hyde's letter, according to Kup, claims the government's refusal "is supporting the paranoia of Oliver Stone and his conspiracy comrades."

May 21: After three weeks of silence on the issue, Kup notes an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association by the two pathologists who performed the autopsy on the body of President Kennedy. They claim that the bullets that killed the president came from the rear "and confirm the Warren Commission report. That should cause the government to speed up its release of the official reports on the assassination," Kup continues, "and put an end to all those far-fetched conspiracy theories." Kup ends the item by stating: "Some doubters, nevertheless, will continue to hold conspiracy theories, largely because of the movie 'JFK.'"

May 22: Kup reports on Oliver Stone's reaction to the JAMA report, quoting Hollywood columnist Army Archerd as saying that Stone took a "so what?" position. Nevertheless, Kup insists that the claim of the two pathologists "deflates Stone's conspiracy theory that another person was involved." Coincidentally, the home video version of JFK is reviewed in the Sun-Times on this day. The thumbnail critique quotes Roger Ebert's original review, which says the film "convincingly argues the official version of JFK's death is flatly impossible."

What did Kup have against JFK? I asked him recently, and he replied that he thought Stone "went overboard" in tying government agencies to the assassination. He said Jim Garrison, the prosecutor played in the film by Kevin Costner, was "held in low esteem" in New Orleans for his prosecution of Clay Shaw as part of the assassination conspiracy. He felt that if Stone's film went unchallenged, it could give "the wrong impression to young viewers" whose only knowledge of the assassination might come from the film.

But perhaps there's a more personal dimension to Kup's animus. A hint of it surfaces in his column of February 9, which I've held aside from the foregoing chronology. In this Sunday column Kup writes, "The NBC 'Today' show on Friday carried a list of people who died violently in 1963 shortly after the death of President John F. Kennedy and may have had some link to the assassination. The first name on the list was Karyn Kupcinet, my daughter."

Calling the inclusion of his daughter "an atrocious outrage," Kup goes on to acknowledge that his daughter died violently in a still unsolved Hollywood murder and that the list including her name was published in a book several years earlier. He denies his daughter had any knowledge of the assassination and says that for the Today show "to repeat the calumny is reprehensible." He concludes by asking the show to "rectify the error."

What exactly had the Today show done? The week of February 3 through 7, Today carried a five-part series entitled "Who Killed JFK?" The last segment included an interview with Oliver Stone conducted by Bryant Gumbel. Immediately after the Stone interview and concluding the five-part series, Gumbel said: "As if JFK's murder weren't enough, consider this: in the first 13 years following the assassination, 37 people with some relation to the case died violently. The odds against that, actuaries say, are higher than 1 in 10,000. We thought showing you who they were, along with how they died, would make an intriguing footnote to our series. They add further mystery to one of the great puzzles of our time." The first name on the list was that of Karyn Kupcinet, preceded by the description, "Murdered--November, 1963."

The book Kup referred to in his February 9 column is Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, by Jim Marrs. It describes Karyn Kupcinet as a "TV host's daughter who was overheard telling of JFK's death prior to 11/22/63." A similar "mysterious deaths list" was carried in another book on the assassination, High Treason: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the New Evidence of Conspiracy by Robert Groden and Harrison Livingstone. These authors refer to Karyn as a "daughter of a childhood friend of Ruby. . . . She was murdered two days after Kennedy. She had foreknowledge of the assassination and was overheard by a telephone operator talking about it." (In his autobiography Kup says he knew Ruby "when he was a one-time organizer for the Waste and Material Handlers Union.")

Asked if there might be some connection, conscious or otherwise, between his attitude toward assassination conspiracy theories and the fact that his daughter's name has been dragged into them, Kup said the insinuations about his daughter are as outlandish as the theories. He said there is no connection whatsoever.

These are just a small sample of the Kupcinet background I think have been sorely overlooked because of Penn Jones's comparatively unsubstantiated distractions, linking Karyn Kupcinet to an anonymous phone call.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/11/us/irv-kupcinet-91-dies-chronicled-chicago-for-60-years.html

Irv Kupcinet, 91, Dies; Chronicled Chicago for 60 Years

By RICHARD SEVERO Published: November 11, 2003

..He believed that each column should end with a dash of humor, but he never thought of himself as a humorist. So he welcomed the participation of ''amateur quipsters.'' One such source was known as Ivan Bunny, but Bunny's offerings were actually the work of two brothers, Jimmy and Ivan Colitz, the latter an auto parts supervisor....

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-2004/The-Lost-World-of-Kup/index.php?cp=7&si=6#artanc

...When Bugsy Siegel was shot to death in the Beverly Hills mansion of his girlfriend, Virginia Hill, in 1947, a True magazine reporter named Mike Stern called Kup. Hill had been hiding out, and Stern had heard she was living on money funneled to her by a local Mob bookkeeper. Stern guessed correctly that Kup might know him.

Kup arranged a dinner at the Blackstone Hotel, and the bookkeeper mentioned in passing that Hill was staying in a small town in Montana. Stern found her and got his scoop. Why didn't the mobsters retaliate against Kup? Stern, now 93, says they liked him. And by then he was too powerful to harm...

http://www.google.com/search?q=furs%20colitz%20clover%20bar%20&hl=en&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1,ar:1,bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=np

The Outfit: The Role of Chicago's Underworld in the Shaping of ... - Page 153

Gus Russo - 2003 - 496 pages - Preview

...Hill had seen how many gamblers were pawning off their wives' furs to her real Chicago love, gambling boss Ira Colitz. Hill convinced Colitz to convert his North Clark Street Clover Bar backroom into a walk-in cooler to store furs that Hill in turn sold to her uptown pals; Hill also occasionally trafficked in hot diamonds acquired in the same manner...

http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.+hauser+clover+bar+clark&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=ewW0TLycNMWAlAec4ODxCg&ved=0CBYQpwU

File Tax Lien Here Against Virginia Hill

‎- Chicago Tribune - Jul 10, 1951

Epstein, who, Mrs. Hauser tes. tified, lived at 25 E. Delaware pl. and spent much of his in the Clover Bar, 172 N. Clark st., could not be (found in either...

JOSEPH EPSTEIN ELUSIVE DESPITE VIRGINIA'S TIPS

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Mar 16, 1951

Virginia whose last name has been Hauser since a recent mar riage said she had contacted Ep stein at the Cloverbar a cocktail lounge at 172 N Clark st and ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=*a+fascinating+yarn+about+Humphrey+Bogart+and+Ira+Colitz&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: KUP'S COLUMN

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - May 2, 1986

AVENUE M magazine in its first issue under new publisher Frank Sullivan features a fascinating yarn about Humphrey Bogart and Ira Colitz man about town and County Board President George Dunne's nightly dinner companion The story tells how Colitz then a World War II GI stationed on the West Coast was in the arms of lovely damsel when Bogart knocked on the door Bogie and Ira thereafter became dear friends And Colitz still is trying to find that girl..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=tycoon+mike+ben+segal++&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Merry Christmas to all of you who made...

‎- Chicago Sun-Times - Dec 22, 1988

To George Dunne Ira Colitz Jesse White and his CabriniGreen tumblers Mr and Mrs Ben Segal and son Mike the tycoon To Edgar Shane the kind of precinct...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=ben+segal+furrier&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Segal's courtship of powerful friends...

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - Jan 29, 2002

Michael Segal built Near North Insurance from a few filing drawers in George Dunne's living room to one of the largest independent brokerage firms in the... learned from his father, Ben, who owned a furrier at Water Tower Place, ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=indicted+furniture+executive+near+north+insurance&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

IRA COLITZ, INSURANCE EXEC, 42ND WARD OPERATIVE

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Jan 26, 1998

A native of Chicago's West Side Mr Colitz worked for 25 years at Near North Insurance Agency most recently as an executive vice president and he served as a...In 1974 Mr Colitz was indicted on federal charges of extorting money from a furniture company for a favorable zoning change He was acquitted a year later..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=michael+segal+near+north+insurance+prison&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Near North Insurance Brokerage Exec Charged with $20M In...

‎Insurance Journal - Jan 31, 2002

According to the Chicago Tribune, Michael Segal, CEO of Near North Insurance ... If convicted, Segal could face up to 25 years in prison for insurance and ...

Segal gets rebuke, 10 years ; Judge sees 'dark side' to...

‎

- Chicago Tribune - Dec 1, 2005

Insurance powerhouse Michael Segal, whose personal empire included a Gold Coast ... And although Segal's company, Near North Insurance Brokerage, ...

Chicago Sun-Times : Segal gets 10 yrs....‎ - Chicago Sun-Times

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK‎ - Page 179

by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996

"....Blakey chose to link Rosselli to Trafficante, by citing his "management role" in

the Havana Sans Souci casino. More pertinent was probably the fact that the Sans Scouci was operated, at this time, by Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick, the suspected killers of James Ragen (9 AH 948). Also at this time, Rosselli's most constant companion was "Major" Charkes "Babe" Baron, a suspected murderer who was also a brigadier-general in the Illinois National Guard. Baron was a protege of Chicago Democratic machine leader Jake Arvey, as were Yaras and Patrick; and an even closer friend of Patrick Hoy, the Henry Crown employee at General Dynamics who arranged for Sidney Korshak to work for Hilton Hotels. Hoy was also the general manager of the Sherman Hotel in Chicago, a hangout frequented ny Ruby and Jones in 1947 (22 WH 366; 24 WH 518 Chicago crime commission, report, 1963)"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=queen+seat+pat+hoy+at+his+farm&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

"Back in 1958, when Queen Elizabeth II dropped in to the Pump Room and its ... Then they shipped the 'throne' off to hotelier Pat Hoy's farm,...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=hoy+know+nothing+about+mixing+concrete&btnG=Search+Books

Kup's Chicago‎ - Page 53

by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages

"But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of.....

http://www.nwitimes.com/entertainment/columnists/offbeat/article_371aff14-0c99-565a-8204-5f89adb0007e.html

...I feel honored that I had the chance to become friends with Kupcinet late in his career, after I joined the Chicago Headline Club. And when I'd visit him at the apartment home he shared in downtown Chicago with his beloved wife Essie, who died in 2001, he loved to point out he had the original Pump Room Booth One in his home...

....Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ...

- Dec 25

File

of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's column... JACK L .

RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark.

Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which

included Ruby, Colitz and their ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1289.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ...

Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column

"Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963,

mini, 74PR II : ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1236.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ...

- 12/27/08

Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1199.pdf

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/20th_Issue/arrb_13.html

ARRB 13th Batch

The Federal Register February 20,1996 p. 6346-6347

Reviewed by Joseph Backes

FBI Documents: Open in Full

...Document # 124-10068-10016 Is a two page document from SAC, Denver to Director dated 11/25/63.

DN [ ]-C frequented Clover Bar next door to Sherman Hotel, Chicago, Illinois, 1946 to 1949. He described this bar as a hangout for hoodlum element. At that time it was operated by Ira Colitz who was described as a personal friend of Colonel Jacob Arvey, well known Chicago political figure. Colitz possibly was recently a candidate for Alderman in Chicago and resides in penthouse apartment on Michigan Boulevard.

Informant related Jack Ruby, whom he identified from Newspaper photographs, frequented Clover bar in about 1946 or 47 and was an acquaintance of Ira Colitz and possibly was a former school mate of Colitz on the West Side of Chicago. He does not know nature of Ruby's activities in Chicago.

Wow! Where did you come from? I didn't know anyone was interested in Karyn Kupcinet. A few things. Possibly, Irv was a part of Operation Mockingbird and was deliberately knocking the movie. But maybe there was another motive. The original screenplay had Karyn Kupcinet as a character. They decided to use Rose Charamie.

I believe Karyn was killed in Hollywood by the Chicago mob who didn't want the Ruby connection to them to come out. It was a shock crime, mostly for Chicago. Everyone knew her. This took Irv off the scent big time. His best friend was Sidney Korschak, mob lawyer operating out of Los Angeles. He met Irv at the airport and also identified the body for Irv.

Who cared about the Kennedy Assassination now?

Researcher Greg Parker figured out about the Oxnard call. It was not Karyn Kupcinet but a Rosicrucian ritual performed using the phone, called radionics. The woman was not upset, but they heard her incantations (operators). Some 20 minutes later Kennedy was shot. The phone company called the FBI. Sirhan Sirhan was also a Rosicrucian.

Karyn spent the Assassination weekend in Palm Springs with Andy Prine, Earl Holliman and, although she denies it, I have a picture and date, actress Lynn Loring.

The family believed it was David Lange, an alcoholic dating Natalie Wood. No proof. They did find 2 sets of prints not belonging to anyone known. I wonder if today they could put them in a computer and come out with a match.

I have some blogs (not up now) about Karyn Kupcinet. When I can, I will send them to you if you're interested.

Kathy C

PS mobster Paul Dorfman was in Palm Springs that same weekend. Irv Kupcinet found him there. Karyn was there. The plot to kill Karyn may have formulated in Dorfman's mind there.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[Kathleen Collins]

Wow! Where did you come from? I didn't know anyone was interested in Karyn Kupcinet. A few things. Possibly, Irv was a part of Operation Mockingbird and was deliberately knocking the movie. But maybe there was another motive. The original screenplay had Karyn Kupcinet as a character. They decided to use Rose Charamie.

I believe Karyn was killed in Hollywood by the Chicago mob who didn't want the Ruby connection to them to come out. It was a shock crime, mostly for Chicago. Everyone knew her. This took Irv off the scent big time. His best friend was Sidney Korschak, mob lawyer operating out of Los Angeles. He met Irv at the airport and also identified the body for Irv.

Who cared about the Kennedy Assassination now?

Researcher Greg Parker figured out about the Oxnard call. It was not Karyn Kupcinet but a Rosicrucian ritual performed using the phone, called radionics. The woman was not upset, but they heard her incantations (operators). Some 20 minutes later Kennedy was shot. The phone company called the FBI. Sirhan Sirhan was also a Rosicrucian.

Karyn spent the Assassination weekend in Palm Springs with Andy Prine, Earl Holliman and, although she denies it, I have a picture of actress Lynn Loring. This was supposedly taken at Palm Springs the Kennedy weekend. I will search my files for more info. Possibly this was the last photo taken of Karyn.

The family believed it was David Lange, an alcoholic dating Natalie Wood. No proof though. They did find 2 sets of prints not belonging to anyone known. I wonder if today they could put them in a computer and come out with a match.

I have some blogs (not up now) about Karyn Kupcinet. When I can, I will send them to you if you're interested.

Kathy C

PS mobster Paul Dorfman was in Palm Springs that same weekend. Irv Kupcinet found him there. Karyn was there. The plot to kill Karyn may have formulated in Dorfman's mind there.

Jack Ruby was known in Dallas as somebody who hung out at the newspaper offices and police station, wanting to be where the action was. In Chicago Irv Kupcinet was already working for the Chicago Times (later Chicago Sun-Times) with his own column. He joined the paper as a columnist in 1943. He met Ruby in the late '40's. My question is: Was Ruby as nosy in Chicago as he later was in Dallas? Was he hanging around the paper a lot? (The one with Irv Kupcinet.) This would indicate that Irv knew Ruby in some capacity years earlier, more than he admitted.

I don't believe Ruby killed Karyn. But I believe there's a possibility that Paul Dorfman did, via a hit man. The purpose was to shock Chicago and get the Chicago mob out of the headlines. They did not want to be connected to Kennedy's murder. They also, I would bet, kidnapped Frank Sinatra Jr a few weeks later, again to distract people and maybe make Sinatra Sr squirm a bit. After all, who did more to get Kennedy elected than Frank Sinatra? He really stuck his neck out and Bobby Kennedy sliced off his head. Instead of staying at Sinatra's guest house with Marilyn Monroe, he stayed at Republican Catholic hypocrite Bing Crosby's guest house with Monroe. What a kick in the face for Frank Sinatra.

And then, balm to America's wounds, the Beatles came over. The assassination took a back seat to them.

Tom, what are you trying to say in your post? Could you spell it out for me?

The family believed it was David Lange, an alcoholic dating Natalie Wood. No proof though. They did find 2 sets of prints not belonging to anyone known. I wonder if today they could put them in a computer and come out with a match.

I have some blogs (not up now) about Karyn Kupcinet. When I can, I will send them to you if you're interested.

Kathy C

PS mobster Paul Dorfman was in Palm Springs that same weekend. Irv Kupcinet found him there. Karyn was there. The plot to kill Karyn may have formulated in Dorfman's mind there.

Sorry about the repitiion in these posts. I don't know how that happened. One was written last night and one today.

Kathy C

Edited October 13, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[Kathleen Collins]

Tom, are you saying that Irv Kupcinet had strong connections to the Mob? I know his best friend was Jewish Mob lawyer, Sidney Korshack, who worked from Los Angeles. The mob supposedly asked Irv if he wanted them to send someone to investigate Karyn's murder. He declined.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

Tom, are you saying that Irv Kupcinet had strong connections to the Mob? I know his best friend was Jewish Mob lawyer, Sidney Korshack, who worked from Los Angeles. The mob supposedly asked Irv if he wanted them to send someone to investigate Karyn's murder. He declined.

Kathy C

What happened to Tom Scully? Did he fall off the face of the earth? I know a lot about this subject, so he shouldn't ignore me.

For the record, the Kupcinet family believed David Lange, actress Hope Lange's younger brother and a gofer at her husband's studio (Alan Pakula), killed Karyn. Karyn's niece Kari Kriser said so on a radio show, which I heard.

Karyn's apartment complex (Monterey Apts.) was made up of 2-story buildings. Her place was in the back and David Lange moved in downstairs a very short time before she died. He was an acquaintance of Andrew Prine's and Karyn helped him get the apartment. Lange was dating Natalie Wood, but he was sleeping around a lot. Lange was an alcoholic (as was Natalie). He came home drunk around the time Karyn was murdered, approx. 12:30 am Thanksgiving morning. He told police he collapsed in his bed immediately upon arriving home and slept through the night.

Both he and his sister are deceased.

Kathy C

[Guest Tom Scully]

Sorry Kathleen...I think your PM box is full...it wouldn't accept new messages. My point was that intentionally or unintentionally, the writing of Penn Jones distracted from this "stuff".:

I think Oliver Stone hit a nerve, as Kupcinet's reaction showed. I think Kupcinet knew almost everything I've observed....that Albert Jenner was helping to shield the Dorfmans at least since 1953 when he represented their first major union insurance client, Frank Darling in a Senate investigation hearing...that Patrick Hoy had no related business qualifications to be hired by Henry Crown to run Material Service or be a General Dynamics VP...that Hoy's boss and Kupcinet's host in the Pump Room, Ernest Byfield Jr. had a complex background...White Russian wife with a sister married to Rionda Braga's first cousin...Kupcinet was there in 1943 when Byfield was asked to be best man in William HG Fitzgerald's wedding...Kupcinet knew that the JFK family was living in Byfield's mother Glady Tartiere's glen Ora estate....he knew that his newspaper column partners, the Colitzes, had been close to Jack Ruby and owned the Clover bar where Ruby and Virginia Hill's mentor, Joseph Epstein hung out...Kupcinet had to suspect Albert Jenner was on the WC to cover up, not to investigate, and that Hoy and his Boss Henry Crown might have been involved in sending Ruby to kill Oswald, especially after the Torbitt documents said Crown was involved. Kupcinet had to kinow that James Ragen had named Crown, Hilton, and Annenberg as heads of the mob. He had to think it was suspicious that Warren's daughter Virginia had been so close to Conrad Hilton...yet there Kupcinet was....promoting the Warren Commission in the early 1990's...over and over....AND we don't even know what Kupcinet learned from Korshak!

[Kathleen Collins]

Sorry Kathleen...I think your PM box is full...it wouldn't accept new messages. My point was that intentionally or unintentionally, the writing of Penn Jones distracted from this "stuff".:

I think Oliver Stone hit a nerve, as Kupcinet's reaction showed. I think Kupcinet knew almost everything I've observed....that Albert Jenner was helping to shield the Dorfmans at least since 1953 when he represented their first major union insurance client, Frank Darling in a Senate investigation hearing...that Patrick Hoy had no related business qualifications to be hired by Henry Crown to run Material Service or be a General Dynamics VP...that Hoy's boss and Kupcinet's host in the Pump Room, Ernest Byfield Jr. had a complex background...White Russian wife with a sister married to Rionda Braga's first cousin...Kupcinet was there in 1943 when Byfield was asked to be best man in William HG Fitzgerald's wedding...Kupcinet knew that the JFK family was living in Byfield's mother Glady Tartiere's glen Ora estate....he knew that his newspaper column partners, the Colitzes, had been close to Jack Ruby and owned the Clover bar where Ruby and Virginia Hill's mentor, Joseph Epstein hung out...Kupcinet had to suspect Albert Jenner was on the WC to cover up, not to investigate, and that Hoy and his Boss Henry Crown might have been involved in sending Ruby to kill Oswald, especially after the Torbitt documents said Crown was involved. Kupcinet had to kinow that James Ragen had named Crown, Hilton, and Annenberg as heads of the mob. He had to think it was suspicious that Warren's daughter Virginia had been so close to Conrad Hilton...yet there Kupcinet was....promoting the Warren Commission in the early 1990's...over and over....AND we don't even know what Kupcinet learned from Korshak!

Kup knew everyone in Chicago and those that visited Chicago, waiting for another plane. I'm sure he'd know these people. Where did you get all this info and put it together? Still, it's not hitting me. Could he really believe his daughter was murdered by someone with these connections and swore to himself never to say anything against the Warren Commission? And too bad if Andrew Prine was the police suspect. Irv became incensed when asked if his daughter could have been killed so he would keep the lid on whatever he knew about the assassination and apparently other people here besides Ruby. And he'd become almost violent if someone suggested she probably committed suicide.

Please explain it to me again. Like try to do so in 2 sentences so I know for sure what you're telling me. I know the CTs loved Penn Jones, Jr. Was this one story he was lying about?

Kathy C

[Guest Tom Scully]

Karyn Kupcinet's hyoid bone was broken and that finding was indicative of homicide and not untimely, solitary death.

That discovery and Penn Jone's linking of the prescient, Oxnard telephone call seem to me to have obscured the more intriguing associations of the JFK and Oswald murders, with Irv Kupcinet.

The story about the men who met with George Senator in Ruby's apartment in the evening after Ruby shot Oswald, and the subsequent deaths of those men, and the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallen, followed two days later by the death of her friend, Florence Pritchard Smith, are odd and interesting events, too...but, compared to all that Kupcinet seemed to be in the center of, I think that they are all dead end, distractions. Deeper investigations of those deaths offer low probability of solving the core crimes; the murders of JFK and Oswald.

That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.

If you accept that Henry Crown, himself, seemed to believe his General Dynamics might lose the TFX contract, he had a motive for "regime change" in Washington. His lawyer, Albert Jenner, should never have been appointed as a WC investigator. The record shows that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson thought the appointment of Jenner was a good idea.

Drew Pearson's Diaries inform us that James Ragen told Tom Clark that Henry Crown "ran the Chicago mob", but that didn't stop Tom Clark from picking Crown's son as Clark's law clerk, or objecting to Jenner on the WC. Crown's son, John, left Clark's Supreme Court office in 1957. Clark only appointed two clerks each year. In 1959, Jenner hired Crown's son. Clark had to have an awareness of every detail in this paragraph. I think Irv Kupcinet had a similar awareness. Irv and Essie spent part of every evening for more than 20 years, by 1964, in Ernie Byfield's and Patrick Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.

They both had to know everything I've posted in this thread. I found all of it by patiently looking online, after wondering why I had never heard of Obama's richest early sponsor, Lester Crown. Lester was even married to Renee Schine, RFK enemy, G. David Schine's sister. The Schine's, Ruby's roommate and Vincent Alo's soldier, Joe Cataldo, all came from the upstate NY town of Gloversville, population, 15,0000.

Clark Clifford manipulated the reluctant mother of Byfield to lease her Middleburg, VA estate to JFK and Jackie. Byfield's mother Gladys Tartiere was close to NY Sen. Kenneth Keating, political enemy of JFK and RFK.

The evening after the assassination, Clifford's obit states that he met with LBJ at the White House, so long into the evening that Lady Bird interrupted to ask if LBJ was ever going to eat dinner.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cclifford.htm

...Johnson was hardly in office 24 hours when he called for Clifford. Faced with the sudden and enormous task of running the country after Kennedy's assassination, Johnson talked with Clifford for two hours, then three, then four. It was late in the evening, Clifford remembered, when Lady Bird Johnson entered the Oval Office and reminded her husband, "Just because you're president now doesn't mean you don't have to eat dinner." ...

When Arthur Goldberg had to resign from the Supreme Court, Clark Clifford, counsel to three Democratic presidents, said:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=bks%3A1&q=%22clark+clifford%22+supreme+court+albert+jenner&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

The Supreme Court under Earl Warren, 1953-1969 - Page 282

Michal R. Belknap, Earl Warren - 2005 - 406 pages -

Clifford suggested that the President nominate a nonpolitical Republican lawyer, such as Albert Jenner of Chicago,..

The last column Drew Pearson distributed before the assassination said the Henry Crown was lobbying key members of congress in reaction to concern that the TFX contract would be re-bid. The year before, General Dynamics had the largest one year loss of any corporation in US history. Crown owned 20 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock. TFX was the largest military contract award in history. On the afternoon of 22 November, Don Reynolds was telling his story to republican members of the McClellan senate committee investigating TFX, Bobby Baker, and LBJ.

Newspaper reports on 15, December, 1963 stated that the McClellan investigation had ceased. It did not resume until 1969.

Except for rare articles like this, and the writing of PD Scott and George Michael Evica, scant attention has been given to the research of all of these curious details, and it looked to me that Chicago newspaper columnists and TV talk show host, Irv Kupcinet, had to have more knowledge about them, than anyone else, but he reacted by keeping silent for nearly 30 years, and then by vigorously attacking Oliver Stone and pushing the WC Report's "findings."

http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-11-18/business/17787252_1_jfk-s-assassination-construction-firm-federal-contracts

ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices

November 18, 1996|By JONATHAN MARSHALL

One of the first questions any murder investigator asks is cui bono -- who benefits. ...

...A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.

In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer....

Consider, too, that the assassination of JFk could have amounted to no more than a lucky and timely break for both Henry Crown and LBJ, but that does not mean that either of them or their associates, or those actually behind the assassination did not quickly see a need to silence Oswald, and enlist the cooperation of Crown and Hoy and their acquaintances to select and dispatch Ruby, and then work to install Albert Jenner on the WC "team".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1963%2Ccd_max%3A1963&q=house+hold+words+in+Chicago.++yet+they+still&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Drew Pearson .Valachi Story Recalls Death Of Chicagoan .

‎Tuscaloosa News - Oct 26, 1963

...Some of the rulers of the underworld had be come supposedly respected businessmen and politicians whose names were house hold words in Chicago. Some of them, it was stated, had reformed. Yet they still controlled the mob.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Tom Scully

[Kathleen Collins]

Karyn Kupcinet's hyoid bone was broken and that finding was indicative of homicide and not untimely, solitary death.

That discovery and Penn Jone's linking of the prescient, Oxnard telephone call seem to me to have obscured the more intriguing associations of the JFK and Oswald murders, with Irv Kupcinet.

The story about the men who met with George Senator in Ruby's apartment in the evening after Ruby shot Oswald, and the subsequent deaths of those men, and the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallen, followed two days later by the death of her friend, Florence Pritchard Smith, are odd and interesting events, too...but, compared to all that Kupcinet seemed to be in the center of, I think that they are all dead end, distractions. Deeper investigations of those deaths offer low probability of solving the core crimes; the murders of JFK and Oswald.

That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.

If you accept that Henry Crown, himself, seemed to believe his General Dynamics might lose the TFX contract, he had a motive for "regime change" in Washington. His lawyer, Albert Jenner, should never have been appointed as a WC investigator. The record shows that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson thought the appointment of Jenner was a good idea.

Drew Pearson's Diaries inform us that James Ragen told Tom Clark that Henry Crown "ran the Chicago mob", but that didn't stop Tom Clark from picking Crown's son as Clark's law clerk, or objecting to Jenner on the WC. Crown's son, John, left Clark's Supreme Court office in 1957. Clark only appointed two clerks each year. In 1959, Jenner hired Crown's son. Clark had to have an awareness of every detail in this paragraph. I think Irv Kupcinet had a similar awareness. Irv and Essie spent part of every evening for more than 20 years, by 1964, in Ernie Byfield's and Patrick Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.

They both had to know everything I've posted in this thread. I found all of it by patiently looking online, after wondering why I had never heard of Obama's richest early sponsor, Lester Crown. Lester was even married to Renee Schine, RFK enemy, G. David Schine's sister. The Schine's, Ruby's roommate and Vincent Alo's soldier, Joe Cataldo, all came from the upstate NY town of Gloversville, population, 15,0000.

Clark Clifford manipulated the reluctant mother of Byfield to lease her Middleburg, VA estate to JFK and Jackie. Byfield's mother Gladys Tartiere was close to NY Sen. Kenneth Keating, political enemy of JFK and RFK.

The evening after the assassination, Clifford's obit states that he met with LBJ at the White House, so long into the evening that Lady Bird interrupted to ask if LBJ was ever going to eat dinner.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cclifford.htm

...Johnson was hardly in office 24 hours when he called for Clifford. Faced with the sudden and enormous task of running the country after Kennedy's assassination, Johnson talked with Clifford for two hours, then three, then four. It was late in the evening, Clifford remembered, when Lady Bird Johnson entered the Oval Office and reminded her husband, "Just because you're president now doesn't mean you don't have to eat dinner." ...

When Arthur Goldberg had to resign from the Supreme Court, Clark Clifford, counsel to three Democratic presidents, said:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=bks%3A1&q=%22clark+clifford%22+supreme+court+albert+jenner&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

The Supreme Court under Earl Warren, 1953-1969 - Page 282

Michal R. Belknap, Earl Warren - 2005 - 406 pages -

Clifford suggested that the President nominate a nonpolitical Republican lawyer, such as Albert Jenner of Chicago,..

The last column Drew Pearson distributed before the assassination said the Henry Crown was lobbying key members of congress in reaction to concern that the TFX contract would be re-bid. The year before, General Dynamics had the largest one year loss of any corporation in US history. Crown owned 20 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock. TFX was the largest military contract award in history. On the afternoon of 22 November, Don Reynolds was telling his story to republican members of the McClellan senate committee investigating TFX, Bobby Baker, and LBJ.

Newspaper reports on 15, December, 1963 stated that the McClellan investigation had ceased. It did not resume until 1969.

Except for rare articles like this, and the writing of PD Scott and George Michael Evica, scant attention has been given to the research of all of these curious details, and it looked to me that Chicago newspaper columnists and TV talk show host, Irv Kupcinet, had to have more knowledge about them, than anyone else, but he reacted by keeping silent for nearly 30 years, and then by vigorously attacking Oliver Stone and pushing the WC Report's "findings."

http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-11-18/business/17787252_1_jfk-s-assassination-construction-firm-federal-contracts

ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices

November 18, 1996|By JONATHAN MARSHALL

One of the first questions any murder investigator asks is cui bono -- who benefits. ...

...A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.

In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer....

Consider, too, that the assassination of JFk could have amounted to no more than a lucky and timely break for both Henry Crown and LBJ, but that does not mean that either of them or their associates, or those actually behind the assassination did not quickly see a need to silence Oswald, and enlist the cooperation of Crown and Hoy and their acquaintances to select and dispatch Ruby, and then work to install Albert Jenner on the WC "team".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1963%2Ccd_max%3A1963&q=house+hold+words+in+Chicago.++yet+they+still&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Drew Pearson .Valachi Story Recalls Death Of Chicagoan .

‎Tuscaloosa News - Oct 26, 1963

...Some of the rulers of the underworld had be come supposedly respected businessmen and politicians whose names were house hold words in Chicago. Some of them, it was stated, had reformed. Yet they still controlled the mob.

First to lend insult to injury Karyn K's hyoid bone may not have been broken and/or the coroner himself might have broken it. Three years after Karyn's autopsy, this man was brought up on charges. Two husbands were fighting for their lives in court. One lawyer got his client's wife's body exhumed. Kade or Wade (whatever his name was) had declared the woman's death to be a homicide and said she was strangled and her head practically decapitated. The exhumation proved this wasn't near the truth at all. Then they exhumed a second woman, whom the coroner said was strangled to death. She died from natural causes. The main coroner said he didn't have the money to exhume another woman whom Kade had also said died by strangulation.

Kade said Karyn Kupcinet was strangled and her hyoid bone broken. After that autopsy, this coroner, who was often drunk, said, "Well, at least I didn't break the hyoid bone on that one. That one -- Karyn Kupcinet? Even though Karyn was buried in Chicago, this news must have gotten back to the Kupcinets. And if it wasn't true, what were the implications? She died of a drug overdose, either on purpose or accidentally?

Her apartment was messed up: cigarettes on the floor, clothes falling from drawers, closets open (showing a mink stole), the bed clothes torn from the bed revealing 2 twin beds shoved together.

Could another kind of killer have caused this mess to make it look like a homicide/robbery? The only thing missing were some 100 methamphetamine pills (Desoxyn) from her "neat and orderly bathroom." The cruelest thing: the killer placed her face down on the sofa, which brings lividity to the face. She wasn't found for 3 days. She was 22 years old.

It's just that Kup must have been a great actor if he knew such things as you've described and his daughter winds up dead and he thinks the downstairs neighbor did it? Could Irv had been so self-assured he didn't think the mob did it? Paul Dorfman was in Palm Springs that weekend, as was Karyn and Irv found Dorfman there and told him about Ruby killing Oswald.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.

If you accept that Henry Crown, himself, seemed to believe his General Dynamics might lose the TFX contract, he had a motive for "regime change" in Washington. His lawyer, Albert Jenner, should never have been appointed as a WC investigator. The record shows that Tom Clark and Dean Acheson thought the appointment of Jenner was a good idea.

Drew Pearson's Diaries inform us that James Ragen "told Tom Clark that Henry Crown "ran the Chicago mob", but that didn't stop Tom Clark from picking Crown's son as Clark's law clerk, or objecting to Jenner on the WC. Crown's son, John, left Clark's Supreme Court office in 1957. Clark only appointed two clerks each year. In 1959, Jenner hired Crown's son. Clark had to have an awareness of every detail in this paragraph. I think Irv Kupcinet had a similar awareness. Irv and Essie spent part of every evening for more than 20 years, by 1964, in Ernie Byfield's and Patrick Hoy's Pump Room restaurant.

They both had to know everything I've posted in this thread. I found all of it by patiently looking online, after wondering why I had never heard of Obama's richest early sponsor, Lester Crown. Lester was even married to Renee Schine, RFK enemy, G. David Schine's sister. The Schine's, Ruby's roommate and Vincent Alo's soldier, Joe Cataldo, all came from the upstate NY town of Gloversville, population, 15,0000.

[url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22jack+anderson%22+TFX+SKELETONS.+ARE+BURIED%3B+SEN%2C+MCCLELLAN+MAY+DIG+henry+crown&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=[/url]

"The last column Drew Pearson distributed before the assassination said the Henry Crown was lobbying key members of congress in reaction to concern that the TFX contract would be re-bid. The year before, General Dynamics had the largest one year loss of any corporation in US history. Crown owned 20 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock. TFX was the largest military contract award in history. On the afternoon of 22 November, Don Reynolds was telling his story to republican members of the McClellan senate committee investigating TFX, Bobby Baker, and LBJ.

Newspaper reports on 15, December, 1963 stated that the McClellan investigation had ceased. It did not resume until 1969.

Except for rare articles like this, and the writing of PD Scott and George Michael Evica, scant attention has been given to the research of all of these curious details, and it looked to me that Chicago newspaper columnist and TV talk show host, Irv Kupcinet, had to have more knowledge about them, than anyone else, but he reacted by keeping silent for nearly 30 years, and then by vigorously attacking Oliver Stone and pushing the WC Report's "findings."

http://articles.sfgate.com/1996-11-18/business/17787252_1_jfk-s-assassination-construction-firm-federal-contracts

ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices

November 18, 1996|By JONATHAN MARSHALL

One of the first questions any murder investigator asks is cui bono -- who benefits. ...

...A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.

In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer....

Consider, too, that the assassination of JFk could have amounted to no more than a lucky and timely break for both Henry Crown and LBJ, but that does not mean that either of them or their associates, or those actually behind the assassination did not quickly see a need to silence Oswald, and enlist the cooperation of Crown and Hoy and their acquaintances to select and dispatch Ruby, and then work to install Albert Jenner on the WC "team".

Drew Pearson. Valachi Story Recalls Death Of Chicagoan,

‎Tuscaloosa News - Oct 26, 1963

...Some of the rulers of the underworld had be come supposedly respected businessmen and politicians whose names were house hold words in Chicago. Some of them, it was stated, had reformed. Yet they still controlled the mob.

The name Crown sounded familiar to me. Henry Crown and his son Lester were owners of Royal Crown Soda. I was a cola afficianado in the '60's, FWIW. Pepsi was the best. Second Coca Cola. And then there was Royal Crown Cola, which didn't live up to the other two. There was Dr. Pepper. And there was Tab, a 1-calorie cola -- horrible.

Regarding this company, they've made most of their money overseas.

Henry Crown died a billionaire from all the business interests he had acquired, which included Hilton Hotels. Irv Kupcinet had to have known him. He knew a lot of businessmen. He and Essee were a distance from Chicago at an opening of a new Sara Lee plant when they got the news that their daughter was found dead. It was all over the TV, etc. They might have been the last ones to know.

Kathy C

Edited October 19, 2010 by Kathleen Collins

[Kathleen Collins]

Karyn Kupcinet's hyoid bone was broken and that finding was indicative of homicide and not untimely, solitary death.

That discovery and Penn Jone's linking of the prescient, Oxnard telephone call seem to me to have obscured the more intriguing associations of the JFK and Oswald murders, with Irv Kupcinet.

The story about the men who met with George Senator in Ruby's apartment in the evening after Ruby shot Oswald, and the subsequent deaths of those men, and the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallen, followed two days later by the death of her friend, Florence Pritchard Smith, are odd and interesting events, too...but, compared to all that Kupcinet seemed to be in the center of, I think that they are all dead end, distractions. Deeper investigations of those deaths offer low probability of solving the core crimes; the murders of JFK and Oswald.

That is the point I wanted to make with this thread. Ironically, Penn Jones's "Forgive My Grief", journalistic slant seems to have resulted in insulating serious inquiry of Irv Kupcinet, who he knew, the involvement of the people he knew, what Irv knew or suspected about their involvement, and his public reaction to what he knew, and his circumstances at the center of it all.

Was Karyn's death also a distraction, which I believe? But was it also a message to Irv? No one before has come up with these things, these names, these people. Do you consider her death of low probability in solving the core murders -- JFK and Oswald?

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

In reading this over, Irv had to know these people. He considered himself a real journalist. That he remained quiet all his life... Was he protecting the rest of his family? Karyn's death overwhelmed him and nearly destroyed him. He must have been mostly sure the mob didn't kill his daughter.

Everything you've told me points to Chicago as a reference point to the Kennedy Assassination. I just want to thank you for confirming my beliefs that Chicago was behind Ruby and they needed a shock crime.

For the record, Karyn was a very unhappy girl. That she wasn't known well in Hollywood made her think she was disappointing her parents, who had such hopes for her. And her mother especially, who nagged her to keep her weight down. Karyn was big-boned, like her father. People with big bones aren't fat, but they probably weigh more than other people of the same height. Essee, her mother, started her on diet pills -- amphetamines. Karyn eventually graduated to methamphetamines, suffered hallucinations and did many odd things.

When you have so much plastic surgery -- she had a nose job, her ears fixed, her chin straightened and she couldn't keep the weight off -- where do you derive self-worth in a town like Hollywood where everything was appearances? There were many pretty girls there, rivals. I think she should have packed up and went home. If I was her father, I'd steer her towards journalism. The hell with her mother. The mother was living through her vicariously because she wanted to be a dancer and her father wouldn't allow it.

That's my take.

Kathy C

[Guest Tom Scully]

Is this theme an explanation of why Albert Jenner was selected for service on the WC? Was Jenner the fixer for the entire Crown family?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14408&view=findpost&p=174430

...The project was cut short when Material Service was subpoenaed by a Federal grand jury investigating corruption in the industry.

The family turned to Albert E. Jenner Jr., a lawyer and longtime friend who is on the board of General Dynamics. ''Whenever the kids got into trouble,'' Jenner says, ''they never bothered the old man. They talked to me, and I got them out of trouble.'' In return for his cooperation with the grand jury, Lester Crown was granted immunity from prosecution.

In May 1974, Crown was elected to the board of directors of General Dynamics, and two months later the Defense Department approved his application for a top-secret clearance. The results of the grand jury proceedings did not become public until December. Neither the members of the board nor the Pentagon had been told of the bribery case....

Kathy, it took me some time putting this post together, more so because it took more thought deciding what to leave in, than what to take out. There are just too many coincidences... Crowns' daughter-in-law coming from Gloversville, NY, the sister of G David Schine whose family owned the Ambassador Hotel in LA and the Miami hotel where Hoover and Tolson vacationed on the house, Byfield, Hoy's boss and Kupcinet's nightly, Pump Room host, former OSS, son of the woman who leased Glen Ora to JFK, a woman who had a second husband, a son, step-son, step-son's wife, all connected with WWII covert operations, Byfield's first white Russian noblewoman wife's sister married to Rionda Braga's first cousin, and his second wife later married to Robert S. McNamara...Paul Nitze connected to Crown via Aspen, Gilpatric was Gen. Dyn. lawyer who negotiated purchase of Crown's assetless Material Service Corp. at a grossly inflated price....

Through gaining control of Gen. Dyn., Crown "inherits" Max Clark and former FBI weapons expert and Hoover favorite, IB Hale. FBI withholds reports from WC that Hale's sons are observed by FBI leaving Judith Exner's LA apartment in summer, 1962. By then Hoover, and maybe IB Hale know that Exner called Evelyn Lincoln and had had contact with JFK. Gen. Dyn. is awarded TFX, highest value military contract in US history in competition with better qualified Boeing.

Just before the Hale break in of Exner's apartment...one of the burglars was the Hale son who had been investigated in the 1959 shooting of his new wife, daughter of neighbor, John B. Connally, IB Hale's wife, Virginia, working at the Ft. Worth Texas State Employment Office, sends Lee Oswald to a job interview at Leslie Welding.

Tom Clark was told by the FBI that James Ragen said Crown and Hilton were in the top mob hierarchy, so he appointed Crown's son as his law clerk in 1956, and recommended Crown's lawyer, Albert Jenner, to the WC in late 1963. Earl Warren's daughter traveled the world with Conrad Hilton, was introduced to the Queen of England by Henry Crown, and Warren appointed Paul Ziffren's son as his law clerk in 1965....

Henry Crown knew the founder and the next owner of Sara Lee, Crown may have owned a piece of the company, himself.:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Charles+W+Lubin%22+crown&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=w23ATPmoAYWKlwerhIz-Cw&ved=0CBIQpwU

PARAMOUNT FILES PROXY-FIGHT PLAN; Says 3 Industrialists...

?

$3.95 - New York Times - Mar 31, 1966

... its proxy battle with two dissident directors include such wellknown industrialists as Henry Crown (through his ), Nathan Cummings and Charles W. Lubin. ...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-07-17/news/8801150451_1_sara-lee-corp-charles-w-lubin-frozen

Charles W. Lubin, Sara Lee Founder - Chicago Tribune

Jul 17, 1988 ... Services for Charles W. Lubin, 84, the ``little old baker`` who founded the Kitchens of Sara Lee and was a pioneer in the frozen-food ...

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15323

Supreme Court Justice Tom C. Clark: A Life of Service

Rionda Braga, accurately predicting the timing of the Bay of Pigs operation, in the book, "The Fish is Red"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14879&view=findpost&p=173125

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=%22besides+lew+wasserman+and+paul+ziffren%2C+one+of+korshak%27s+closest%22&btnG=Search+Books

The Nick Tosches reader - Page 517

Nick Tosches - 2000 - 593 pages - Preview

Besides Lew Wasserman and Paul Ziffren, one of Korshak's closest friends, Kupcinet said, was Frank Sinatra. "Frank and Sid were very close friends. Very close friends

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=+lester+crown+unindicted&btnG=Search+Archives&hl=en&ned=us&scoring=a

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=+lester+crown+thompson&btnG=Search+Archives&hl=en&ned=us&scoring=a

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bazelon%20friend%20colonel&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp

Supermob: how Sidney Korshak and his criminal associates became ...

Gus Russo - 2006 - 623 pages - Snippet view

Even prior to that, in April 1941, when Ziffren and Bazelon were at the Gottlieb firm, Ziffren had inquired of the ... friend Colonel Henry Crown purchased a twenty-six-thousand-acre abandoned coal mine in Farmersville, California, ...

Captive city

Ovid Demaris - 1969 - 366 pages - Snippet view

The Alien Property Custodian in 1947, the year the Colonel purchased the Farmersville mine, was David L. Bazelon, ... Considered close friends, Ziffren and Bazelon joined in several multimillion-dollar ventures across the country. ...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=hoy+know+nothing+about+mixing+concrete&btnG=Search+Books

Kup's Chicago? - Page 53

by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages

"But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of.....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16336&view=findpost&p=201195

The Defender: The Story of General Dynamics? - Page 228

by Roger Franklin - Technology & Engineering - 1986 - 385 pages

Crown rapidly demolished the faint hope that he would stay close to Chicago and

... He brought in several Chicago cronies, including one, Patrick H. Hoy, ...

http://books.google.com/books?ei=LULHTKSSGYWclge8mPmyAg&ct=result&id=LHAEAQAAIAAJ&dq=barron+hoy+korshak&q=%28Back+in+1929%2C+Baron%2C+while+accompanied+by+Joe+Cota+and+Robert+Emmet+Ryan%2C#search_anchor

Captive city

Ovid Demaris - 1969 - 366 pages - Snippet view

From 1960 to 1966, the Colonel's general factotum was Patrick H. "Pat" Hoy, who went from president of the Sherman Hotel in .

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=%22hedging+his+bets+between+labor+and+management%2C+korshak*%22&btnG=Search+Books

Dark victory: Ronald Reagan, MCA, and the Mob

Dan E. Moldea - 1986 - 382 pages - Snippet view

27 Hedging his bets between labor and management, Korshak had done legal work for the Hilton Corporation since the early 1960s on a case- by-case basis. After Conrad Hilton's son, Barron Hilton, took control of the business, Patrick Hoy, a vice-president of the General Dynamics Corporation,* who was a close friend of both Hilton and Korshak, recommended that Korshak be kept on retainer

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1&q=%22son%2C+Barron+Hilton%2C+took+control+of+the+business%2C*%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1&q=%22*While+Hoy+was+a+vice+president+of+General+Dynamics+and+Korshak%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

General Dynamics, the nation's largest defense contractor, was owned by Colonel Henry Crown, for whom Korshak had done some unspecified legal work. While Hoy was a vice president of General Dynamics and Korshak .

was working for Crown, General Dynamics had engaged in fraudulent cost-overrun claims to the US Navy. In 1984, when the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee began to investigate General Dynamics, it subpoenaed the Justice Department's internal records on the company.

When Attorney General William French Smith repeatedly defied the committee, refusing to give it the requested documents, the subcommittee cited Smith for contempt of Congress. It is not known whether Hoy — who had earlier pleaded guilty to mail fraud in connection

with a $2 million bank fraud case — or Korshak appears in those secret reports.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&q=Patrick+Hoy+Byfield&ie=UTF-8

"July 18, 1949, Traverse City, Michigan

Subscription - Record-Eagle - NewspaperArchie - Jul 18, 1949

... flaming sword is something new on the fabulous Pump Room menu in

Chicago as demonstrated by Patrick Hoy executive assistant to Ernest

Byfield (Sr.) president ..."

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Kennedy+with+her+newest+admirer%2C+Ernie+Byfield&btnG=Search+Archives&ned=us&hl=en

Skylarking JAMES COPP

Pay-Per-View - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver - Dec 13, 1950

AND SITTING IN the Stork Club, New York, a few nights ago-Pat -Kennedy with her newest admirer, Ernie Byfield ...

Pat, you know, recently deserted Los Angeles for New. Turn to Page 6, Column 3. Continued from First Page. York, at which time her name was being constantly linked with that of Bachelor Alfredo de la Vega . . . AT THE Stork, Ernie was having a great time ...celebrat. ing what he termed "our last night of peace before declaring war on China," Pat kept telling him to be quiet-or else!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1956%2Ccd_max%3A1957&q=byfield+nephew+hoy&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Front Views & Profiles

‎Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - Feb 5, 1957

... Ernest Byfield Jr are plan ning a new dining room to be called the Left Bank . Bill is a nephew of Pat Hoy president of the Sher manAmbassador hotels and

http://www.google.com/search?q=arvey+hoy+marine+bank&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=GVvHTOupBo609gS4pcDdAw&ved=0CBUQpwU

ASK APPROVAL OF STATE BANK IN MARINA CITY

‎

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - Aug 4, 1962

Permission to organize the Marina City bank in the twin tower project is being ... Organizers are J a c ob M Arvey Patrick H Hoy William Fuller Gregson ..

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

I am replying here to Kathy's post on the thread titled, "Replying to Cuban-Exile Military hat/beret"

.....

I looked through "Kup: Man, Era, City" and the only 2 (besides Korshak) mentioned is Henry Crown, whom he called "the great industrialist" and Ernie Byfield as "the famous hotelier" who made the Pump Room what it was.

This stuff is fascinating. And his friend Colitz was Ruby's best friend for years? It's odd, then, why he wanted to speak to Dorfman when Ruby killed Oswald. I couldn't find a mention of Colitz in Kup's book, not even as Ivan Bunny. Maybe he was a fact checker?

Kathy C

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol15/page24.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. XV - Page 24

(Testimony of Hyman Rubenstein)

...Mr. Rubenstein.

Jack was never in Dallas before in his life. He didn't know nothing about Dallas. He never met Jones. I met Jones through Eva.

Mr. Griffin.

You don't ever remember meeting Jones with Jack?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I told you Jack did not know Jones.

Mr. Griffin.

Well now, if the record showed differently, would you think you might be mistaken?

Mr. Rubenstein.

No; I am almost positive. Because this was before Jack went down there.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember a time when Jack was living at the Sherman Hotel?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. When was that?

Mr. Rubenstein.

When he came out of the Army.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall if during part of the period when he was living at the Sherman Hotel he also went down to Dallas for a while to see Eva?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't remember that.

Mr. Griffin.

Incidentally, when Jack was in Chicago were there times when he did not live with the family?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Yes; when he stayed at the Sherman Hotel.

Mr. Griffin.

Any other time?

Mr. Rubenstein.

Either the Sherman or the Congress, one of the two hotels I know he stayed.

Mr. Griffin.

For how long was he living in a hotel?

Mr. Rubenstein.

I don't know, after he got out of the service.

Mr. Griffin.

Why was it that he was not living with the family?

Mr. Rubenstein.

He had sold out his business to my brother Earl or part of his interest to my brother Earl, and he had some money, and so he felt he wanted to live by himself for a while, which is all right. I mean he was no kid any more, he was a man....

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1289.pdf

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1199.pdf

From the first post on this thread:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16754&view=findpost&p=208497 :

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/11/us/irv-kupcinet-91-dies-chronicled-chicago-for-60-years.html

Irv Kupcinet, 91, Dies; Chronicled Chicago for 60 Years

By RICHARD SEVERO Published: November 11, 2003

..He believed that each column should end with a dash of humor, but he never thought of himself as a humorist. So he welcomed the participation of ''amateur quipsters.'' One such source was known as Ivan Bunny, but Bunny's offerings were actually the work of two brothers, Jimmy and Ivan Colitz, the latter an auto parts supervisor....

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/June-2004/The-Lost-World-of-Kup/index.php?cp=7&si=6#artanc

...When Bugsy Siegel was shot to death in the Beverly Hills mansion of his girlfriend, Virginia Hill, in 1947, a True magazine reporter named Mike Stern called Kup. Hill had been hiding out, and Stern had heard she was living on money funneled to her by a local Mob bookkeeper. Stern guessed correctly that Kup might know him.

Kup arranged a dinner at the Blackstone Hotel, and the bookkeeper mentioned in passing that Hill was staying in a small town in Montana. Stern found her and got his scoop. Why didn't the mobsters retaliate against Kup? Stern, now 93, says they liked him. And by then he was too powerful to harm...

http://www.google.com/search?q=furs%20colitz%20clover%20bar%20&hl=en&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1,ar:1,bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=np

The Outfit: The Role of Chicago's Underworld in the Shaping of ... - Page 153

Gus Russo - 2003 - 496 pages - Preview

...Hill had seen how many gamblers were pawning off their wives' furs to her real Chicago love, gambling boss Ira Colitz. Hill convinced Colitz to convert his North Clark Street Clover Bar backroom into a walk-in cooler to store furs that Hill in turn sold to her uptown pals; Hill also occasionally trafficked in hot diamonds acquired in the same manner...

http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.+hauser+clover+bar+clark&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=ewW0TLycNMWAlAec4ODxCg&ved=0CBYQpwU

File Tax Lien Here Against Virginia Hill

‎- Chicago Tribune - Jul 10, 1951

Epstein, who, Mrs. Hauser tes. tified, lived at 25 E. Delaware pl. and spent much of his in the Clover Bar, 172 N. Clark st., could not be (found in either...

JOSEPH EPSTEIN ELUSIVE DESPITE VIRGINIA'S TIPS

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Mar 16, 1951

Virginia whose last name has been Hauser since a recent mar riage said she had contacted Ep stein at the Cloverbar a cocktail lounge at 172 N Clark st and ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=*a+fascinating+yarn+about+Humphrey+Bogart+and+Ira+Colitz&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: KUP'S COLUMN

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - May 2, 1986

AVENUE M magazine in its first issue under new publisher Frank Sullivan features a fascinating yarn about Humphrey Bogart and Ira Colitz man about town and County Board President George Dunne's nightly dinner companion The story tells how Colitz then a World War II GI stationed on the West Coast was in the arms of lovely damsel when Bogart knocked on the door Bogie and Ira thereafter became dear friends And Colitz still is trying to find that girl..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=tycoon+mike+ben+segal++&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Merry Christmas to all of you who made...

‎- Chicago Sun-Times - Dec 22, 1988

To George Dunne Ira Colitz Jesse White and his CabriniGreen tumblers Mr and Mrs Ben Segal and son Mike the tycoon To Edgar Shane the kind of precinct...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=ben+segal+furrier&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Chicago Sun-Times: Segal's courtship of powerful friends...

‎ - Chicago Sun-Times - Jan 29, 2002

Michael Segal built Near North Insurance from a few filing drawers in George Dunne's living room to one of the largest independent brokerage firms in the... learned from his father, Ben, who owned a furrier at Water Tower Place, ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=indicted+furniture+executive+near+north+insurance&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

IRA COLITZ, INSURANCE EXEC, 42ND WARD OPERATIVE

‎ - Chicago Tribune - Jan 26, 1998

A native of Chicago's West Side Mr Colitz worked for 25 years at Near North Insurance Agency most recently as an executive vice president and he served as a...In 1974 Mr Colitz was indicted on federal charges of extorting money from a furniture company for a favorable zoning change He was acquitted a year later..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws%3A1%2Car%3A1&q=michael+segal+near+north+insurance+prison&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Near North Insurance Brokerage Exec Charged with $20M In...

‎Insurance Journal - Jan 31, 2002

According to the Chicago Tribune, Michael Segal, CEO of Near North Insurance ... If convicted, Segal could face up to 25 years in prison for insurance and ...

Segal gets rebuke, 10 years ; Judge sees 'dark side' to...

‎

- Chicago Tribune - Dec 1, 2005

Insurance powerhouse Michael Segal, whose personal empire included a Gold Coast ... And although Segal's company, Near North Insurance Brokerage, ...

Chicago Sun-Times : Segal gets 10 yrs....‎ - Chicago Sun-Times

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK‎ - Page 179

by Peter Dale Scott - History - 1996

"....Blakey chose to link Rosselli to Trafficante, by citing his "management role" in

the Havana Sans Souci casino. More pertinent was probably the fact that the Sans Scouci was operated, at this time, by Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick, the suspected killers of James Ragen (9 AH 948). Also at this time, Rosselli's most constant companion was "Major" Charkes "Babe" Baron, a suspected murderer who was also a brigadier-general in the Illinois National Guard. Baron was a protege of Chicago Democratic machine leader Jake Arvey, as were Yaras and Patrick; and an even closer friend of Patrick Hoy, the Henry Crown employee at General Dynamics who arranged for Sidney Korshak to work for Hilton Hotels. Hoy was also the general manager of the Sherman Hotel in Chicago, a hangout frequented ny Ruby and Jones in 1947 (22 WH 366; 24 WH 518 Chicago crime commission, report, 1963)"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=queen+seat+pat+hoy+at+his+farm&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

"Back in 1958, when Queen Elizabeth II dropped in to the Pump Room and its ... Then they shipped the 'throne' off to hotelier Pat Hoy's farm,...

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=hoy+know+nothing+about+mixing+concrete&btnG=Search+Books

Kup's Chicago‎ - Page 53

by Irv Kupcinet - Chicago (Ill.) - 1962 - 286 pages

"But I'm a hotelman," Hoy protested. "I know nothing about mixing concrete." "Maybe not," said Crown. "But without being a cook you've done an excellent job of running the Pump Room." Yielding to Crown's persuasion, Hoy began a new career at the age of.....

http://www.nwitimes.com/entertainment/columnists/offbeat/article_371aff14-0c99-565a-8204-5f89adb0007e.html

...I feel honored that I had the chance to become friends with Kupcinet late in his career, after I joined the Chicago Headline Club. And when I'd visit him at the apartment home he shared in downtown Chicago with his beloved wife Essie, who died in 2001, he loved to point out he had the original Pump Room Booth One in his home...

....Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1289 - FBI report dated June 5 ...

- Dec 25

File

of Ivan Bunny which appears frequently in Irv Kupcinet's column... JACK L .

RUBY. IIe bought the Clover Bar next to the Sherman Hotel on Clark.

Street after selling the Realto .... group of Jewish people which

included Ruby, Colitz and their ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1289.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1236 - FBI report of interview ...

Union Local 20467,. AFL, is quoted in IRV KUPCINET's. column

"Chicago ... COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1235. 2. On November 25, 1963,

mini, 74PR II : ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1236.pdf

Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1199 - FBI report dated ...

- 12/27/08

Commission, IRA COLT= owner of the Clover Bar, and LOUIS. SCHNITZ were friends of RUBY. ... RUBY was at the Clover Bar about five years ago . RUBY at the ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1199.pdf

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/20th_Issue/arrb_13.html

ARRB 13th Batch

The Federal Register February 20,1996 p. 6346-6347

Reviewed by Joseph Backes

FBI Documents: Open in Full

...Document # 124-10068-10016 Is a two page document from SAC, Denver to Director dated 11/25/63.

DN [ ]-C frequented Clover Bar next door to Sherman Hotel, Chicago, Illinois, 1946 to 1949. He described this bar as a hangout for hoodlum element. At that time it was operated by Ira Colitz who was described as a personal friend of Colonel Jacob Arvey, well known Chicago political figure. Colitz possibly was recently a candidate for Alderman in Chicago and resides in penthouse apartment on Michigan Boulevard.

Informant related Jack Ruby, whom he identified from Newspaper photographs, frequented Clover bar in about 1946 or 47 and was an acquaintance of Ira Colitz and possibly was a former school mate of Colitz on the West Side of Chicago. He does not know nature of Ruby's activities in Chicago.

[Kathleen Collins]

Tom, thank you for sharing that. It's amazing that you got most of that from the Internet. I want to ask -- are you an American, a Britisher or an Australian?

So Irv knew a lot but never reported these things. And when LHO was killed, there were a number of people in Chicago who knew Jack Ruby. I don't know why he got in touch with Paul Dorfman. Maybe he tried other individuals and couldn't find them that day.

Someone in your reporting said Jack Ruby was the least violent man he knew. Was he kidding? And Dorfman said, "Sparky wouldn't do that. He's a nebbish kind of guy." Ruby was a violent, excitable man. Jada, the dancer, called him a "maniac." He worked as a bouncer in his own club. When he was a youth he ran around with gangs and loved getting into fights. Oddly, Irv Kupcinet did the same thing in Chicago. I have to research whether the 2 men, the same age, in Chicago, ever met as kids. Because Irv, like Ruby, liked to fight.

Kupcinet was a violent young man. Quick to anger. When he received a football scholarship to Northwestern (where he met Essee) he got thrown out because he punched the coach's brother. North Dakota College accepted him for his athletic prowess and he graduated from there with an interest in Journalism. He then became a football star but had to give up the sport when he injured his shoulder in his first and only year as a professional football player. But, according to him, he didn't mind. He wanted to become a newspaper man.

So Irv escaped the fate of Ruby and learned to control his temper over the years. They have some Kup's Show programs on the Museum of Broadcasting in Chicago. Some time ago I watched some. I hope they're still available. I don't remember the exact link to the website.

I want to thank you, Tom, for your wealth of information on Chicago.

Kathy C