Is the "Other" film a hoax?

[Guest Duncan MacRae]

[Doug Weldon]

I have the highest respect for William Reymond and the late Rich DellaRosa. I believe they saw a filmas they described and I cannot conceive that someone could have "added" to the film so I believe their accounts are truthful. I have another first hand account from an officer in the motorcade who saw the limo stop. I do not believe he has been named before.

Doug Weldon

Edited October 13, 2010 by Doug Weldon

[David Andrews]

At least at one time, there had to be another version on film of the elements we see reconstituted in the edited Zapruder. Therefore --

[Kathleen Collins]

I have the highest respect for William Reymond and the late Rich DellaRosa. I believe they saw a filmas they described and I cannot conceive that someone could have "added" to the film so I believe their accounts are truthful. I have another first hand account from an officer in the motorcade who saw the limo stop. I do not believe he has been named before.

Doug Weldon

Yes. The Limo came to a STOP. Read this: The limo came to a STOP. A clean, shiny trunk and no limo stop? Baloney.

[Bill Miller]

I cannot believe there are those who continue to claim the limo came to a complete stop. That is not to say that depending on where one was in relation to the limo ... they could have seen it this way. However, there are many more people who said the limo slowed or came to a near stop or what some people call a rolling stop.

As far as this other film ... I am reminded that there were a lot of folks claiming to have seen it, but their versions varied quite a bit. So which other film was the correct one?

Bill

[Dean Hagerman]

I believe Rich Dellarosa

He has told me personally through email about the other film

I believe him 100%

RIP Rich

Edited October 13, 2010 by Dean Hagerman

[Doug Weldon]

Doug,

Where, in relation to the limo, was the officer you said that told you the limo stopped?

Kathy

Kathy:

He was on Houston. He will be in my book.

Best,

Doug Weldon

[Doug Weldon]

I cannot believe there are those who continue to claim the limo came to a complete stop. That is not to say that depending on where one was in relation to the limo ... they could have seen it this way. However, there are many more people who said the limo slowed or came to a near stop or what some people call a rolling stop.

As far as this other film ... I am reminded that there were a lot of folks claiming to have seen it, but their versions varied quite a bit. So which other film was the correct one?

Bill

Bill:

I am not aware that there were "lots" of folks who saw another film. The ones who have claimed to see it have been remarkably consistent. What variations are you making reference to? The Zapruder film does not show any "near stop" so what is it that you believe that these people saw? The witness (police officer) who relayed his account to me was and is well respected. Good luck.

Doug Weldon

[Daniel Meyer]

I'm unsure how to vote.

I'm agnostic as to what William Reymond says in the YouTube clip. (I try to be vigorously agnostic about all individual accounts relating to this case unless I've seen multiple independent confirmations.)

As to whether their is or was film showing more details of the assassination than are publically available now, I'd say yes. And multiple films, not just one. Orville Nix even admitted to Mark Lane that the film he got back from the Feds was not the same as it had been before.

(Youtube copy of relevant portion of the "Rush to Judgement" film:

)

[Bill Miller]

Bill:

I am not aware that there were "lots" of folks who saw another film. The ones who have claimed to see it have been remarkably consistent. What variations are you making reference to? The Zapruder film does not show any "near stop" so what is it that you believe that these people saw? The witness (police officer) who relayed his account to me was and is well respected. Good luck.

Doug Weldon

DellaRosa's site years ago had a list of people who claimed to have seen the 'other film'. I pointed out that some of those witnesses were saying they saw things that were not part of other peoples description. For instance, one person had said that the 'other film' he saw had shown the President and Connally being shot as the car was making the turn onto Elm Street .... other accounting's didn't mention this. So rightfully so, I responded that there seems to be various versions of this so-called 'other film'. That if this so-called 'other film' had actually been witnessed by 'x' number of people, then each version should show the same sequences of events unfolding. That any difference in their descriptions implies that some of the witnesses are merely jumping on the 'I saw the other film' wagon and didn't see it or they all were telling the truth, but merely describing different films.

Bill

Edited November 12, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Kathy:

He was on Houston. He will be in my book.

Best,

Doug Weldon

I hope you have researched his field of view and angle to the limo so to have tested his perception of the event. Some folks saw the parade stop for a few seconds and possibly felt the limo did as well. Others looking at a limo heading away from them and slowing to a near stop may look to be stopped for a brief moment. White House reporter Merriman Smith said that from his angle to the President's car that while the follow-up cars in the parade did come to a halt for a few seconds .... the President's car only faltered. So what I am saying is that a witness can be truthful in saying what they believe they saw, I only advise being thorough in considering whether what they saw was real or not.

Bill

[David Andrews]

Since the Z-film is itself an edit and a reassemblage - I have no doubt that a different version (different edit or different camera) existed, and perhaps still does. We might as well ask if bootleg recordings exist.

[Doug Weldon]

Bill:

I am not aware that there were "lots" of folks who saw another film. The ones who have claimed to see it have been remarkably consistent. What variations are you making reference to? The Zapruder film does not show any "near stop" so what is it that you believe that these people saw? The witness (police officer) who relayed his account to me was and is well respected. Good luck.

Doug Weldon

DellaRosa's site years ago had a list of people who claimed to have seen the 'other film'. I pointed out that some of those witnesses were saying they saw things that were not part of other peoples description. For instance, one person had said that the 'other film' he saw had shown the President and Connally being shot as the car was making the turn onto Elm Street .... other accounting's didn't mention this. So rightfully so, I responded that there seems to be various versions of this so-called 'other film'. That if this so-called 'other film' had actually been witnessed by 'x' number of people, then each version should show the same sequences of events unfolding. That any difference in their descriptions implies that some of the witnesses are merely jumping on the 'I saw the other film' wagon and didn't see it or they all were telling the truth, but merely describing different films.

Bill

Bill:

Fair enough and thank you for the reply. I am not familiar with that list of people (how many?). The consistent factors that stand out from those whom I am aware saw another film are that they saw the limo taking a very wide turn on Elm Street(almost hitting the curb by the depository) and that the limo stopped. It does not surprise me that there would be those who would jump on the wagon. Again, thanks.

Doug Weldon

[Doug Weldon]

Kathy:

He was on Houston. He will be in my book.

Best,

Doug Weldon

I hope you have researched his field of view and angle to the limo so to have tested his perception of the event. Some folks saw the parade stop for a few seconds and possibly felt the limo did as well. Others looking at a limo heading away from them and slowing to a near stop may look to be stopped for a brief moment. White House reporter Merriman Smith said that from his angle to the President's car that while the follow-up cars in the parade did come to a halt for a few seconds .... the President's car only faltered. So what I am saying is that a witness can be truthful in saying what they believe they saw, I only advise being thorough in considering whether what they saw was real or not.

Bill

Bill:

Again, your reply is legitimate and your points are, of course, well taken. You are very thorough and reasonable and I respect that. I have not researched exactly where he was when he "saw" the limo stop.. I did not solicit the comment but he offered it. He was looking at the limo. Obviously the Z film shows nothing like a stop. He sounded very puzzled why it did not. I believe his comment (I will need to listen to it again) was to the effect "I could swear that it stopped." When evidence is corroborative and cumulative it carries more weight. Yes, a witness can be mistaken. However, it becomes noteworthy if sixty witnesses describe the same thing. Dealey Plaza, can be an enigma as to sounds and echoes. I have seen nothing in Dealey Plaza that lends itself to creating optical illusions. When the limo turned onto Elm two officers saw the ground and dust come up in the plaza across from the depository, convincing them that it was from a shot. They shared this with WC investigators and both were told they could not have seen that. The one officer diagrammed for me exactly where it hit.

Best,

Doug Weldon

[Bill Miller]

Again, your reply is legitimate and your points are, of course, well taken. You are very thorough and reasonable and I respect that. I have not researched exactly where he was when he "saw" the limo stop.. I did not solicit the comment but he offered it. He was looking at the limo. Obviously the Z film shows nothing like a stop. He sounded very puzzled why it did not. I believe his comment (I will need to listen to it again) was to the effect "I could swear that it stopped." When evidence is corroborative and cumulative it carries more weight. Yes, a witness can be mistaken. However, it becomes noteworthy if sixty witnesses describe the same thing. Dealey Plaza, can be an enigma as to sounds and echoes. I have seen nothing in Dealey Plaza that lends itself to creating optical illusions. When the limo turned onto Elm two officers saw the ground and dust come up in the plaza across from the depository, convincing them that it was from a shot. They shared this with WC investigators and both were told they could not have seen that. The one officer diagrammed for me exactly where it hit.

Best,

Doug Weldon

I too have read where witnesses described a bullet striking the ground ... I find their observations intriguing and do not rule the possibility out. But for now I will do well to deal with one claim at a time and I just wanted to share that people who were at a right angle to the limo like Merriman Smith, Jean Hill, Mary Moorman, Charles Brehm, Toni Foster, and so on do not seem to have ever stated that the progressive movement of the limo in the films is different than what they saw with the naked eye. I have read many instances where people said the motorcade/parade came to a stop, but they didn't specify if that included the limo. This is why I cited Merriman Smith for from his vantage point he was able to note the difference in what the follow-up vehicles had done Vs the President's car when it came to completely stopping or not. I do know from experience that when seeing a slow moving object moving away from me ... it will often times look to not be moving at a distance whereas when I get closer to the the object ... it actually is moving. It was when I started seeing these patterns in the witnesses observations and how their location to the limo might be a factor ... I dismissed the idea that such a stop would be removed from the film record.

Bill

Edited November 13, 2010 by Bill Miller