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Is the "Other" film a hoax?


Guest Duncan MacRae
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24 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the "Other" film a hoax?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      14


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Yes. However, there might be some differences in recollections--which is to be expected.

The limo comes into view while it is still on Houston as it approaches Elm. The "other film" shows an extremely WIDE turn from Houston onto Elm. The limo almost strikes the curb on the northwest corner of Houston and Elm, in front of the TSBD, and is forced to "slow down to a crawl" there, too--almost STOP--in order to negotiate the turn. (Even if nothing else had happened that day, that is a poor reflection on SS Presidential Protection Detail protocol!)

There is no "break" in filming during the entire sequence.

The limo drifts toward the SOUTH side of Elm at approximately the point where it is even (give or take) with the Stemmon's Freeway sign. The limo comes to a COMPLETE STOP before reaching the steps leading up the Grassy Knoll, during the head shot. It comes to an additional "rolling stop" (less than 5 miles/hour) shortly thereafter at the approximate spot directly in front of the street level "storm drain" on Elm.

More than one Secret Service Agent climbed out of the Queen Mary with automatic weapons drawn, apparently looking to return fire. The sequence of events as depicted in the "Happy Zappy--Should Be Rated X for Violence--Cartoon" are contrived. The events are depicted in a very surreal manner. One needs to "slow down" the events as seen on the Zapruder film so that they conform with REALITY. We all have a "sense" of reality. We all have a sense that there is something wrong with the extant Zapruder film--unless...we're in denial.

The quality of this "other film" is extremely high. There is nothing "jittery" in it. The "bottom section" of the film doesn't drop out of sight--and It doesn't cause one to wonder why the film seems weird. As far as I can tell, it is the recordation of an event that was captured on film by PROFESSIONALS and it bears the signature of those with knowledge beyond that of an "amateur photographer"; knowledge far beyond that of one who "just happened" to be in the right place at the wrong time. IMO, whoever shot the "other film" was in the "right place at the right time" but perhaps for ALL OF THE WRONG REASONS.

Greg, with all due respect ... you have just described an event that must be a hoax or a recreation that someone has confused as being an actual film of JFK's assassination. Let me point out one of the flaws in that description ....

I only know of Roy Truly mentioning the car appearing to have almost hit the curb, but from his location I am certain that he was mistaken for two main reasons ...

1) Truly was the only person that I am aware of that claimed the car appeared to almost hit the curb during the turn onto Elm Street. This is one reason why I believe that Truly was mistaken.

2) The other reason is that the Doorman film (sprocket hole version) for an instance shows the limo in the middle of the street when making that turn. The Towner film also shows the limo in the center lane as it completed its turn. The limo's left tire is right near the south lane stripe which means the limo is in the center lane. I welcome anyone to contact the Museum and ask Gary Mack to confirm what these films show for both originals are currently there.

So if I had to make an educated guess based on the evidence, I would believe that Truly was merely mistaken before I would believe that an elaborate alteration of two films had taken place over such a non-eventful event.

Maybe Robin Unger has the frames available to show this?

The limo comes to a COMPLETE STOP before reaching the steps leading up the Grassy Knoll, during the head shot.

Moorman's Polaroid #5 taken within 3/18s of a second of the head shot shows the car to be in motion. This is shown by the emblems on the hub-caps as they are blurred from being in motion. It was Craig Lamson who made me aware of this years ago.

Bill Miller

Edited by Bill Miller
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Bill,

The detail in the flag between the red arrows.

As I asked previously, if someone has a non-newspaper copy of Altgen's with this detail, I'm all ears.

It does not exist in any of the best copies that have been submitted so far.

chris

Altgens6.png

I personally wouldn't waste time on obviously altered Newspaper prints. The one above has had the rear view mirror mount removed and I am certain that JFK didn't have such a narrow head ... just to name a few obvious alterations/air brush attempts. The clearest Altgens 6 print I have seen is the print Josiah Thompson posted long ago ... that would be the print that doesn't show JFK's head as narrow as most pan fish. biggrin.gif If a newspaper print shows more detail in the flag than Josiah's print, then it has been retouched, especially when other signs of retouching are seen.

Edited by Bill Miller
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Large Scan.

Click on thumbnail to view full size.

Murray%7E1.jpg

Sitzman seen in Skaggs & Sitzman being interviewed while standing at the pedestal

Click on thumbnail to view full size:

I guess these images shoots the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder .... unless someone wants to run with the plot that Sitzman and others agreed to let impostors stand-in for them only to return to the pedestal to do the interviews.

It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that one's brains fall out of their head.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller
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Large Scan.

Click on thumbnail to view full size.

Murray%7E1.jpg

Sitzman seen in Skaggs & Sitzman being interviewed while standing at the pedestal

Click on thumbnail to view full size:

I guess these images shoots the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder ...

Bill

Oh? Regarding ANY DP photo/film taken 11/22/63, you're the ONLY amateur researcher that can positively ID Sitzman in those film/photos as standing next to (who we've been told) Abraham Zapruder on the DP/Elm St. pedestal. BTW, what positively identifies Marilyn Sitzman in those photos? Still ever the comedian I see. Don't give up your day job! ROTFLMFAO!

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Large Scan.

Click on thumbnail to view full size.

Murray%7E1.jpg

Sitzman seen in Skaggs & Sitzman being interviewed while standing at the pedestal

Click on thumbnail to view full size:

I guess these images shoots the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder .... unless someone wants to run with the plot that Sitzman and others agreed to let impostors stand-in for them only to return to the pedestal to do the interviews.

It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that one's brains fall out of their head.

Bill

Bill all you can see is the back of "Sitzmans" head in that picture

How does that image "shoot the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder" ?

Edited by Dean Hagerman
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Oh? Regarding ANY DP photo/film taken 11/22/63, you're the ONLY amateur researcher that can positively ID Sitzman in those film/photos as standing next to (who we've been told) Abraham Zapruder on the DP/Elm St. pedestal. BTW, what positively identifies Marilyn Sitzman in those photos? Still ever the comedian I see. Don't give up your day job! ROTFLMFAO!

Still rubbing your head while working them jaws in hopes of coming up with an intelligent response ... it just ain't working, David.

post-1084-1214368161.gif

Recognize Sitzman??? Just follow the bouncing ball, David. Of course I did leave in the senseless option of all the parties involved hatching a big lie by using stand-ins ... that should have made you happy.

Bill

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post-2389-017730300%201289916499_thumb.jpg

Robin, do you know who shot this footage?

I think the persons name was Oliver Stone

Dean all i have is the photo is marked with INTV, that is a reporter who interviewed her shortly after the assassination,name gone, that photo had nothing to do with Stone, and Marilyn i believe had died by the time the film came out, but i will look that up.nope,.she died aug 11 1993, but she was not in the movie....b

possibly John Wiseman merely told us in his memo of 11/23/63 that he talked to Marilyn Sitzman and an unnamed man who thought the shots came from the Depository (XIX, 535-6).

could this be Wiseman interviewing Sitzman?

Edited by Bernice Moore
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post-2389-017730300%201289916499_thumb.jpg

Robin, do you know who shot this footage?

I think the persons name was Oliver Stone

Dean,

I think I gave you a reference to Trask's book "Pictures of the pain" ... it was not Oliver Stone, but if it helps you in some way to think like that ... its fine by me.

Bill

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Bill all you can see is the back of "Sitzmans" head in that picture

How does that image "shoot the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder" ?

Two things, Dean ... the Photographic records from Zapruder first filming Sitzman turning to his camera through to the interview caption seen here shows only one woman in and around the plaza who dressed and looked like Sitzman, but when you come up with another one in the same photo record ... please let me know.

And for the record /// do you really believe that Zapruder, Sitzman, the Hester's, and any one else who saw Zapruder and Sitzman on the pedestal have entered into a cover-up to cover for stand-ins?

Bill

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Bill all you can see is the back of "Sitzmans" head in that picture

How does that image "shoot the hell out of Sitzman not being the woman on the Pedestal with Zapruder" ?

Two things, Dean ... the Photographic records from Zapruder first filming Sitzman turning to his camera through to the interview caption seen here shows only one woman in and around the plaza who dressed and looked like Sitzman, but when you come up with another one in the same photo record ... please let me know.

And for the record /// do you really believe that Zapruder, Sitzman, the Hester's, and any one else who saw Zapruder and Sitzman on the pedestal have entered into a cover-up to cover for stand-ins?

Bill

Personally Bill, I think Zappy and Sitzman were on the pedestal, I think Zappy shot film, I think that was used with the "other" film to create what we know today as the Z-film

I just get tired of my fellow alterationists being made fun of and called out on the Zappy/Sitzman issue in regards to being clearly seen in any film or photos during the assassination.

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Im not saying its not real footage, but just watch JFK and when the scene with Sitzman comes up it looks just like the one where Vince D'onofrio is playing Bill Newman and being interviewed in Dealey Plaza

Its looks to me like Stone shot that for his movie making it look like a real old interview

I have been right about another photo that members thought was real showing a policeman running across Elm with Babushka and others in the picture. It was not a real photo but a frame taken from JFK

:ph34r:

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post-2389-017730300%201289916499_thumb.jpg

Robin, do you know who shot this footage?

I think the persons name was Oliver Stone

Dean,

I think I gave you a reference to Trask's book "Pictures of the pain" ... it was not Oliver Stone, but if it helps you in some way to think like that ... its fine by me.

Bill

Bill I just looked at the index of POTP and went to every page with Sitzman on it and did a quick flip through the entire book and did not see the picture.

Do you remember what section or what page it was on?

Again I could be wrong, im not saying im correct, I just dont remember this picture or frame if its from a film.

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Im not saying its not real footage, but just watch JFK and when the scene with Sitzman comes up it looks just like the one where Vince D'onofrio is playing Bill Newman and being interviewed in Dealey Plaza

Its looks to me like Stone shot that for his movie making it look like a real old interview

I have been right about another photo that members thought was real showing a policeman running across Elm with Babushka and others in the picture. It was not a real photo but a frame taken from JFK

:ph34r:

From memory the Sitzman frame came from Grodens JFK: The Case for Conspiracy: DVD

Edited by Robin Unger
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