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Where in Altgens6 is LBJ?


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Yarborough affidavit

On November 22, 1963, as the President and Mrs. Kennedy rode through the streets of Dallas, I was in the second car behind them. The first car behind the Presidential car was the Secret Service car; the second car behind them was Vice-President Lyndon Johnson's car. The driver and a secret service agent were on the front seat of the Vice-President's car. Vice-President Lyndon B. Johnson sat on the right side of the rear seat of the automobile, Mrs. Lyndon B. Johnson was in the center of the rear seat, while I sat on the left side of the rear seat.

Rufus Youngblood's report

The following persons were in the Vice Presidential vehicle when the motorcade departed from the airport at approximately 11:50 a.m., CST.

In the front seat: The driver, Herschel Jacks, Texas Highway Patrol

Other side front seat: ASAIC Youngblood

Rear seat, behind driver: Senator Ralph W. Yarborough

Rear seat, middle: Mrs. Johnson

Rear seat, behind ASAIC Youngblood: The Vice President

.....

I heard an explosion--I was not sure whether it was a firecracker, bomb, bullet, or other explosion. I looked at whatever I could quickly survey, and could not see anything which would indicate the origin of this noise. I noticed that the movements in the Presidential car were very abnormal and, at practically the same time, the movements in the Presidential follow-up car were abnormal. I turned in my seat and with my left arm grasped and shoved the Vice President, at his right shoulder, down and toward Mrs. Johnson and Senator Yarborough. At the same time, I shouted "get down!" I believe I said this more than once and directed it to the Vice President and the other occupants of the rear seat. They all responded very rapidly.

I quickly looked all around again and could see nothing to shoot at, so I stepped over into the back seat and sat on top of the Vice President. I sat in a crouched position and issued orders to the driver. During this time, I heard two more explosion noises and observed SA Hickey in the Presidential follow-up car poised on the car with the AR-15 rifle looking toward the buildings. The second and third explosions made the same type of sound that the first one did as far as I could tell, but by this time I was of the belief that they definitely were shots--not bombs or firecrackers. I am not sure that I was on top of the Vice President before the second shot--he says I was. All of the above related events, from the beginning at the sound of the first shot to the sound of the third shot, happened within a few seconds.

Sorry if this is glaringly obvious but I don't see him to the left (her right) of Lady Bird. Do not see how Lady Bird or Yarborough are reacting as Rufus describes (Altgens 6 is AFTER the first shot... we all agree on that, yes?)

Bottom line - shouldn't we be seeing either LBJ, Rufus, or the movement in the back seat by then?

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Yarborough affidavit

On November 22, 1963, as the President and Mrs. Kennedy rode through the streets of Dallas, I was in the second car behind them. The first car behind the Presidential car was the Secret Service car; the second car behind them was Vice-President Lyndon Johnson's car. The driver and a secret service agent were on the front seat of the Vice-President's car. Vice-President Lyndon B. Johnson sat on the right side of the rear seat of the automobile, Mrs. Lyndon B. Johnson was in the center of the rear seat, while I sat on the left side of the rear seat.

Rufus Youngblood's report

The following persons were in the Vice Presidential vehicle when the motorcade departed from the airport at approximately 11:50 a.m., CST.

In the front seat: The driver, Herschel Jacks, Texas Highway Patrol

Other side front seat: ASAIC Youngblood

Rear seat, behind driver: Senator Ralph W. Yarborough

Rear seat, middle: Mrs. Johnson

Rear seat, behind ASAIC Youngblood: The Vice President

.....

I heard an explosion--I was not sure whether it was a firecracker, bomb, bullet, or other explosion. I looked at whatever I could quickly survey, and could not see anything which would indicate the origin of this noise. I noticed that the movements in the Presidential car were very abnormal and, at practically the same time, the movements in the Presidential follow-up car were abnormal. I turned in my seat and with my left arm grasped and shoved the Vice President, at his right shoulder, down and toward Mrs. Johnson and Senator Yarborough. At the same time, I shouted "get down!" I believe I said this more than once and directed it to the Vice President and the other occupants of the rear seat. They all responded very rapidly.

I quickly looked all around again and could see nothing to shoot at, so I stepped over into the back seat and sat on top of the Vice President. I sat in a crouched position and issued orders to the driver. During this time, I heard two more explosion noises and observed SA Hickey in the Presidential follow-up car poised on the car with the AR-15 rifle looking toward the buildings. The second and third explosions made the same type of sound that the first one did as far as I could tell, but by this time I was of the belief that they definitely were shots--not bombs or firecrackers. I am not sure that I was on top of the Vice President before the second shot--he says I was. All of the above related events, from the beginning at the sound of the first shot to the sound of the third shot, happened within a few seconds.

Sorry if this is glaringly obvious but I don't see him to the left (her right) of Lady Bird. Do not see how Lady Bird or Yarborough are reacting as Rufus describes (Altgens 6 is AFTER the first shot... we all agree on that, yes?)

Bottom line - shouldn't we be seeing either LBJ, Rufus, or the movement in the back seat by then?

We don't see LBJ, obviously because Youngblood has already pushed him down. We may be seeing Youngblood's back/butt however, although it's hard to see much detail in that area.

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Looking at a much higher resolution copy of the photo and then zooming in and out, I don't see the outline that you are suggesting. And in fact, the curvature you've drawn in for the top of your LBJ head just does not exist in the Altgens photo.

unknown.jpg

This is the copy of the Altgens photo I am using. The resolution is 4464 × 2902.

altgens.jpg

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LBJ has to be upright at the Altgens 6 moment, because Lady Bird and Yarborough are unfazed. In the SS car behind LBJ, the right rear door is opening, and the SS agent's hand outside the window has been suspected of having a firearm airbrushed out of it.

Edited by David Andrews
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Well. then - is the entire back seat cast of the VP car reconstituted for the retouched Altgens 6? Maybe that's why Lyndon's head is a dark smudge.

NB, we shpuld be evaluating the VP car backseat in contrast to what's going on simultaneously in the following SS car. See my post just above for others' thoughts on the SS agent's hand out the window.

Edited by David Andrews
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Well. then - is the entire back seat cast of the VP car reconstituted for the retouched Altgens 6? Maybe that's why Lyndon's head is a dark smudge.

In his new book, Phil Nelson claims to have witnesses that state that LBJ hit the floor as much as 40 seconds prior to the first shot.

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I apologize for not having access to my better print than the one shown in this thread, but I can show you where LBJ is in the print being used here ....

1-LBJ_2-SecretServiceAgent.jpg

LBJ's left ear and hairline is visible just to our left of the SS Agents face. The Agent appears to be in the process of turning to look back over his shoulder or he may be in the process of rising up so to get to the VP. I say the latter might be more true because of the way he has leaned towards the driver as if to turn his body so to rise up and get out of his seat.

Bill MIller

Edited by Bill Miller
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I looked at this thread and what each person said concerning how they read the picture ... 'LBJ had already ducked' ... 'LBJ ducked down 40 seconds before the shooting' ... 'the photo has been retouched' ... 'the dark face is LBJ' ... all I was waiting for next was that the head I pointed out was too small to be human. (smile)

While there appears to have been a conspiracy, too much has been attributed to conspiracy because of mis-interpretation in reading the image. I'm glad that at least this matter was resolved.

Bill

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I looked at this thread and what each person said concerning how they read the picture ... 'LBJ had already ducked' ... 'LBJ ducked down 40 seconds before the shooting' ... 'the photo has been retouched' ... 'the dark face is LBJ' ... all I was waiting for next was that the head I pointed out was too small to be human. (smile)

While there appears to have been a conspiracy, too much has been attributed to conspiracy because of mis-interpretation in reading the image. I'm glad that at least this matter was resolved.

Bill

Well, the only issue I was considering was the question of whether we see an upright LBJ in that photo. The Altens photo could not have been altered, because Altgens took his film directly to the AP, where it was processed and then wired out to hundreds of affiliated newspapers and magazines, before the authorities ever laid their hands on it.

And four people (Youngblood, Jacks, LBJ, and Ladybird) confirmed that Youngblood pushed LBJ down then. If memory serves, most of them said that happened after the first shot though of course, most witnesses only heard one of the early shots.

FWIW, I am not convinced that we are seeing an upright LBJ then, but I also fail to see why the issue is worth spending a lot of time on.

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Moderator i just uploaded 3 photos, it would not post, kept telling me i had too many photos attached even after i had deleted all.....just letting you know, i have in the past posted as many as 7 in one post..i then tried one, but that is not showing now either...??????thanks b..

Edited by Bernice Moore
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Bernice, I have had similar sounding problems when posting articles.

One way that seems to get around the problem is to paste the article into plain text notepad and remove any extraneous stuff and copy paste the gist of the article from there. Sometimes too one has to not just delete the image from the post (which is a reference) but go to 'my settings' > 'manage attachments' and delete them from there, and then repost the inage/s.

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Bernice, I have had similar sounding problems when posting articles.

One way that seems to get around the problem is to paste the article into plain text notepad and remove any extraneous stuff and copy paste the gist of the article from there. Sometimes too one has to not just delete the image from the post (which is a reference) but go to 'my settings' > 'manage attachments' and delete them from there, and then repost the inage/s.

:ph34r: thanks john,but there are no attachments of what i tried to post attached there in my settings. they are none existant simply gone,no record and it is a very plain copied and pasted print out of an article, i have not a clue what the hecker, but will try again, Da Gremlin has reared his head again...perhaps,it is close to goblin time of year coming up...b :ph34r:

i just tried again and it is not accepting photos nor print out, i will let it go for now perhaps tomorrow, when the gremlin sleeps...thanks take care b;)

Edited by Bernice Moore
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