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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

Doug: She has proof that they worked together. What about Anna Lewis? Anna did not even like Judyth so why would she lie?

Have you read Ed Haslam's book? Judyth's? I do not think it is fair to pass judgement on someone withouth reading the person's book first. In fact you and I are in agreement on Armstrong's work on another thread.

Dawn

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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

Doug: She has proof that they worked together. What about Anna Lewis? Anna did not even like Judyth so why would she lie?

Have you read Ed Haslam's book? Judyth's? I do not think it is fair to pass judgement on someone withouth reading the person's book first. In fact you and I are in agreement on Armstrong's work on another thread.

Dawn

Dawn:

Your point is fair. Yes, I have Haslam's book and have read it. I have followed Judyth for over a decade and carefully followed the monumental thread here.I have seen Judyth change so many things to conform to the tough questions asked of her. I don't want to raise questions here because I don't want to tip Judyth off. If her story is legitimate then she can enhance her credibility in a number of ways: produce the physical evidence, i.e., the Oswald handwriting, the Mary Ferrell tape recording, etc. and submit herself to questions that she doesn't have a chance to ponder and choose which one's to ignore and answer. The truth can defend itself. If she does not produce the evidence she claims to have do you not agree the failure to do so should construe that evidence against her. Judyth had stated she wasn't going to subject herself to any further questions but she has appeared on the radio, etc. It is easy to fool the unknowing. There were , as I mentioned before, aspects of her story that at first intriqued me, i.e., where would she get the idea that she and Oswald were going to write a science fiction book? I discovered how she was able to do that. I am always reticent with witnesses who embrace their own celebrity. Judyth has motive to fabricate and I believe that could be exposed. Do you really believe she could remember all the dialogue she writes? I certainly could not. Whoever Oswald was I do not believe any evidence establishes he was a James Bond-Renaissance man character. As far as Armstrong, you can see I was one of the many people he dedicated the book to, so many things were run by me directly. I do believe there are stronger aspects of his book than others and I have questions but most people do not know the right questions to ask. I am curious. Did Judyth contact you or did you contact her?

My best,

Doug Weldon

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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

It looks like a very straightforward statement to me, Pamela, saying that he does not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald. Well, by golly, that is exactly what he said! It doesn't have anything to do with someone else's assessment about any other part of the case,so I am a bit confused by your comment. :-)

Since you are a known Judyth believer, this would be a perfect opportunity for you to share with all of us just what "credible evidence" exists that she did personally know Oswald.

We know they worked at Reily at the same time in the summer of 1963, even starting work on the same day. She worked in the office, he greased machines. Other than a common nodding knowledge of one another, like many of the 100-ish employees at Reily could very likely have had with one another, what "credible evidence" have you seen that Judyth and Oswald actually knew one another?

I will be very interested in your response, and look forward to what specific credible evidence you will present, because thus far, I have never seen any credible evidence of them having known one another at all.

Thanks,

Barb :-)

I've learned a lot about the decade old debate about Judyth Baker's story from reading Barb's posts here and on the

Exile thread started by Jim Fetzer. Barb almost invariably provides links and/or documentation for her posts, making it easy

to see the source for what she is discussing. Most people interested in making up their own minds appreciate this approach to

research. Barb has had to listen to some people accuse her of attacking Judyth or nitpicking. They find this preferable to actually

discussing what Barb has written. That's my impression.

Judyth Baker has no bigger supporter than Ed Haslam. In Dr Mary's Monkey (page 291), Haslam asks "did Judyth know Lee Harvey Oswald in

New Orleans in 1963?" Haslam offers only two items to support such a contention: Baker's W-2 from Reily and the 2003 video recording of Anna Lewis.

These are the "two critical pieces of evidence" that Haslam uses to wonder if it is time "to reconsider our history" of the Kennedy murder.

That's it. That's Haslam's evidence that Baker and Oswald knew each other. The rest of his faith is based on his belief in her "as a person."

Barb has written that the devil is often in the details and I agree with that. But often there are large questions, which Baker and her supporters

almost never address. I find this 2005 comment by James Richards worth considering:

One thing about Judyth's story I have never been able to figure out. If she was indeed working on some cancer inducing virus which was

to be used to kill Castro, then there is no way she would have been told who the victim was going to be. She would have worked with no

information as to the weapon's ultimate use. This type of activity is definitely conducted on a 'need to know'. That's just the way it is.

There is a seemingly endless list of improbabilities and implausibilies like this that help explain why JVB has so many doubters.

If there was credible evidence linking Baker and Oswald, why did Douglass and Horne choose not to mention it in their recent books?

There were scores of journalists and investigative reporters in New Orleans in the 60's and 70's that had their ears

very close to the ground. There have been many researchers that have written extensively about Oswald in New Orleans.

None of them have ever found any credible evidence of an association between Baker and Oswald, to my knowledge.

Michael:

Outstanding post.

Doug Weldon

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I have attached the picture in New Orleans. Judyth claimed to be the woman in the striped dress and when that person was discovered to have been positively identified she claimed to be the apparently pregnant woman with the explanation that she sometimes became bloated. She also claimed to still have the dress from then. Which dress is it and where is it? It is another example of a claim made by her with no substantiation.

Exactly correct, Doug.

All bold mine.

Judyth Vary Baker with Howard Platzman, Ph.D, "Deadly Alliance," alternate draft provided to Robert Vernon, posted by Vernon at alt.assassination.jfk, August 30, 2004:
"Judyth is 90% certain that Warren Commission exhibit Pizzo 453-B, a photo of the scene, includes her standing near Lee. The picture is blurry, but there is a resemblance between the girl in the photo and contemporaneous photos of Judyth. The dress pattern in the picture matches close-up photos of a dress Judyth wore in other photos in her possession.

Judyth Vary Baker, Internet forum post, October 9, 2004: "No, not standing next to Lee, but in the same general area as Lee - iF [sic] that person is me. The face is too blurry to be certain. The pavement sloped upward there, as I have proven with other photos, but I cannot prove this woman is me. Though have never been 100% certain the woman was me, I remember talking to the two girls shown in the footage under consideration. In any case, Lee simply happens to be nearby, and there is little, if any, interaction with the woman, beyond a smile in her direction as he approaches with flyers. I do not remember being filmed, but was warned that filming was taking place, and to leave at once, a warning which Lee gave to me.

Quotations from a compilation by Dave Reitzes, at his website, links to actual posts and documents are there.

Reitzes website on Judyth

In her new book, Me & Lee, the telling has changed. She now says this of this incident:

Lee arrived at Dr. Mary's apartment about 10:00 A.M.
I wanted to be there with him, but he was afraid I would be photographed and identified.
So I decided to dress up as a Cuban girl to change my appearance. First, I put in my specially tinted contact lenses that made my eyes brown. Then I put on too much make-up and curled my hair like Latinas did back then. I put on a festive looking sundress and black high heel shoes to complete the cha-cha look.
Lee was amused by my efforts, and thought I could be a good "extra" in the scene to attract attention, but he wanted me to disappear when the TV camera arrived so I would not get captured on film.

Everything worked according to plan. Lee and two paid helpers handed out leaflets. I engaged several Cuban girls in conversation to attract a crowd, discussing America's poor treatment of Cuba.
The television crew arrived on cue and I disappeared, heading to Thompson's Restaurant to wait for Lee.

This was all the subject of much debate on and off with the claim of being a certain girl in the photo changing to being the other girl, Judyth noting she remembered carrying a big black purse. That either one was her became more vague after it was shown in documents that the girls had been identified.

A couple other things about this incident were discussed. One was Judyth claiming, and she wrote it this way in her first book, that Oswald and the men helping him pass out leaflets were all dressed in "white shirts, nice slacks and thin ties." But a film of the incident taken by WWL-tv showed one of the men wearing bermuda shorts. Seems to me someone posted a link to a clip of that at the time, but I cannot currently find it online ... perhaps someone here knows where it can be found.

The other thing involved the film taken by WWL and the film shot that day by WDSU. Judyth went on about the big television cameras and what all went on with them getting all set up to film the event. Johann Rush, the actual WDSU cameraman who shot the film that day showed up on the newsgroup and posted that there was no huge setup ... that the cameras both he and the fellow from the other station used that day were small, hand held cameras.

And in her first book, she did not meet Oswald at Dr. Mary's apartment that morning ... she met up with him on Canal Street.

Judyth has made the claims. It is she who claims to be in possession of the physical evidence that would support those claims. Don't you agree that the burden of proof should be on her? If she is truthful I sincerely believe she would be one of the most valuable witnesses ever in the history of the case. Ironically, if she is fabricating her involvement she is doing the opposite of what she claims to seek. By doing such, she diminishes Oswald, casts dispersion upon the entire research community who believes that the true story of 1963 has not been told by the government bodies,and distorts what happened that day in 1963. I absolutely have no bad feelings towards Judyth but I cannot ignore the evidence that has been presented or ignore the evidence she refuses to produce. I do believe it is possible that even if this is fabricated, that she may believe it.

I wholeheartedly agree, Doug. Unless her story is absolute and accurate truth, the already muddy waters of this case are made even muddier, and worse, researchers are sent off down false trails. That is just not okay when it comes to uncovering the truth about the assassination of our president ... and for having an accurate history. Like any witness, Judyth's claims must be checked out. It's nothing personal against Judyth. It's normal, necessary ... and expected ... procedure.

Excellent posts, Doug.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Doug:

You do raise many goood points. The pic is very interesting. I wonder why she would say it is her. But you cannot tell who it is.

I had my first doubts about her when the Harvey and Lee thread was going on. But now I have gone back and looked at some of the NO period in Armstrong's book and it seems to back Judyth even more. As for why she refuses to do certain things I cannot speak for her.

I know she totally discounts Armstrong w/o having read his most imprssive work. I hope that Dr. Fetzer sees fit to get her a copy of Harvey and Lee. It was Harvey she met and it is clear that he never shared this with her. (That they were two). I have considered that she has made it all up. In fact when I saw The Love Affair that raised many doubts for me. I will go back and see that again. Am in court all day today...so will get back to this later.

Have you read her book? Haslams? Comments.

Thanks,

Dawn

In my opinion, John Armstrong's theory about 2 Oswalds is COMPLETE AND TOTAL BUNK. Totally NOT buying it. Secondly, I believe Judyth Vary Baker when she says she was Lee Harvey Oswald's lover and mistress in New Orleans. Baker is a key witness to truth in the JFK assassination.

Having said that, it does not mean one should blindly believe everything Judyth says. Or anyone else for that matter. It also does not mean I don't respect John Armstrong's work in other areas of the research on the 1963 Coup d'Etat. Armstrong believes Allen Dulles was involved in the JFK assassation; I believe that was the case as well, not JUST the cover up when he was on the Allen Dulles Commission.

Robert, have you read both books, and Dr Mary's monkey? I know you haven't read all of Armstrong's work, it seems many haven't...which is a major shame. But how, then, do you know all the details of his 2 Oswald theory? Details in this case are everything.

Do you agree that Oswald was being impersonated? If so, why is Newman's theory Bunk? What particulars do you have with it?

What parts of Judyth's story do you believe? which don't you? I think Doug may have asked this several pages ago. What do you think she was a key witness too? Judyth's claim to have genius level memory recall, should really exclude her from making quite a few glaring mistakes, as this topic is about? How do you pic and choose? Have you been reading the counter argument posts as well, they are offering some pretty excellent insight into her story.

I'm sorry, but all these blanket statements, without, as I said, giving particulars, is getting confusing. There is time in the posts to go into more detail.

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With Harrys knowledge; to post;

Judyth; A Heads up.... Permission was not asked for nor granted,from Harry, why not...??.

Hi BerniceAs JVB has spread my face with some confessedly incorrect statements on her recently discovered blog, I wish to verify the significance re; flowers...http://judythbaker.blogspot.com/

placed on Oswald's grave from 24 November 1965 and continued forseveral years. {It is not possible to access her blog}.The purpose of the flowers was simply to support specific four to eightline poems,intended to provoke authorities into cracking open the Archivedoor.At some point I read that the then president Johnson furiously ordered his people to find who the guilty party was.The Los Angeles bureau office, tried 'every method to discourage' thoseannual deliveries.Just wanted this known. Until later... Harry aka Hj

Bernice,

Could you please send me a private message as to how I might contact Mr. Dean?

Thank you,

Dean

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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

Doug: She has proof that they worked together. What about Anna Lewis? Anna did not even like Judyth so why would she lie?

Have you read Ed Haslam's book? Judyth's? I do not think it is fair to pass judgement on someone withouth reading the person's book first. In fact you and I are in agreement on Armstrong's work on another thread.

Dawn

Dawn:

Your point is fair. Yes, I have Haslam's book and have read it. I have followed Judyth for over a decade and carefully followed the monumental thread here.I have seen Judyth change so many things to conform to the tough questions asked of her. I don't want to raise questions here because I don't want to tip Judyth off. If her story is legitimate then she can enhance her credibility in a number of ways: produce the physical evidence, i.e., the Oswald handwriting, the Mary Ferrell tape recording, etc. and submit herself to questions that she doesn't have a chance to ponder and choose which one's to ignore and answer. The truth can defend itself. If she does not produce the evidence she claims to have do you not agree the failure to do so should construe that evidence against her. Judyth had stated she wasn't going to subject herself to any further questions but she has appeared on the radio, etc. It is easy to fool the unknowing. There were , as I mentioned before, aspects of her story that at first intriqued me, i.e., where would she get the idea that she and Oswald were going to write a science fiction book? I discovered how she was able to do that. I am always reticent with witnesses who embrace their own celebrity. Judyth has motive to fabricate and I believe that could be exposed. Do you really believe she could remember all the dialogue she writes? I certainly could not. Whoever Oswald was I do not believe any evidence establishes he was a James Bond-Renaissance man character. As far as Armstrong, you can see I was one of the many people he dedicated the book to, so many things were run by me directly. I do believe there are stronger aspects of his book than others and I have questions but most people do not know the right questions to ask. I am curious. Did Judyth contact you or did you contact her?

My best,

Doug Weldon

Doug: I am pretty sure that I contacted her. I was asked to help by another forum member. This was to try to get the Anna Lewis video. But I am not in touch with Ms. Conway so I had no way to accomplish that, other than enlist others to assist.

I have not followed her every word. Just do not have the time. As far as the dialogue goes in her book I am assuming this is mostly made up. No one could remember ACTUAL dialoge from that long ago. So it has to be paraphrased.

I do not know what celebrity she has embraced or what motive she would have for ruining her life and not being able to be in this country with her children and grandchildren.

That part of the Love Affair that jumped out at me as false was when they "accidentally" met. But in reading her book it became clear that this meeting was no accident. I would indeed like to see the handwriting tested and any other recordings she claims to have. But would even this satisify people?

Even her detractors agree that they worked at Reily together.

Dawn

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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

Doug: She has proof that they worked together. What about Anna Lewis? Anna did not even like Judyth so why would she lie?

Have you read Ed Haslam's book? Judyth's? I do not think it is fair to pass judgement on someone withouth reading the person's book first. In fact you and I are in agreement on Armstrong's work on another thread.

Dawn

Dawn:

Your point is fair. Yes, I have Haslam's book and have read it. I have followed Judyth for over a decade and carefully followed the monumental thread here.I have seen Judyth change so many things to conform to the tough questions asked of her. I don't want to raise questions here because I don't want to tip Judyth off. If her story is legitimate then she can enhance her credibility in a number of ways: produce the physical evidence, i.e., the Oswald handwriting, the Mary Ferrell tape recording, etc. and submit herself to questions that she doesn't have a chance to ponder and choose which one's to ignore and answer. The truth can defend itself. If she does not produce the evidence she claims to have do you not agree the failure to do so should construe that evidence against her. Judyth had stated she wasn't going to subject herself to any further questions but she has appeared on the radio, etc. It is easy to fool the unknowing. There were , as I mentioned before, aspects of her story that at first intriqued me, i.e., where would she get the idea that she and Oswald were going to write a science fiction book? I discovered how she was able to do that. I am always reticent with witnesses who embrace their own celebrity. Judyth has motive to fabricate and I believe that could be exposed. Do you really believe she could remember all the dialogue she writes? I certainly could not. Whoever Oswald was I do not believe any evidence establishes he was a James Bond-Renaissance man character. As far as Armstrong, you can see I was one of the many people he dedicated the book to, so many things were run by me directly. I do believe there are stronger aspects of his book than others and I have questions but most people do not know the right questions to ask. I am curious. Did Judyth contact you or did you contact her?

My best,

Doug Weldon

Doug: I am pretty sure that I contacted her. I was asked to help by another forum member. This was to try to get the Anna Lewis video. But I am not in touch with Ms. Conway so I had no way to accomplish that, other than enlist others to assist.

I have not followed her every word. Just do not have the time. As far as the dialogue goes in her book I am assuming this is mostly made up. No one could remember ACTUAL dialoge from that long ago. So it has to be paraphrased.

I do not know what celebrity she has embraced or what motive she would have for ruining her life and not being able to be in this country with her children and grandchildren.

That part of the Love Affair that jumped out at me as false was when they "accidentally" met. But in reading her book it became clear that this meeting was no accident. I would indeed like to see the handwriting tested and any other recordings she claims to have. But would even this satisify people?

Even her detractors agree that they worked at Reily together.

Dawn

Dawn:

Thanks for the reply. I do not dispute they worked at Reilly at the same time but that in of itself means nothing. According to Judyth's former husband Judyth, upon seeing Oswald on television, exclaimed something to the effect, that Oswald looked like someone she used to work with. I don't know about all of Judyth's motives but she has written to people from her high school class that there could be movie rights, etc. and she has certainly drawn attention to herself. I think the handwriting and recordings would go a long way towards establishing her credibility, especially the handwriting. The failure to do so speaks loudly against her veracity as does her refusal to answer tough questions.. Absent those things, because of the obvious contradictions and provable falsehoods she is more than highly suspect. BTW, I also believe that Arfstrong does a nice job in his public speaking and to the contrary I now believe his book makes JVB less plausible.

Best,

Doug Weldon

Edited by Doug Weldon
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Dawn:

The picture is in the next posting. I am computer-challenged. I do not believe there is credible evidence that Judyth ever met Oswald.

With all due respect, that comes across as an equivalent to Gary Mack's infamous statement, "I have not seen any hard evidence of conspiracy."

Doug: She has proof that they worked together. What about Anna Lewis? Anna did not even like Judyth so why would she lie?

Have you read Ed Haslam's book? Judyth's? I do not think it is fair to pass judgement on someone withouth reading the person's book first. In fact you and I are in agreement on Armstrong's work on another thread.

Dawn

Dawn:

Your point is fair. Yes, I have Haslam's book and have read it. I have followed Judyth for over a decade and carefully followed the monumental thread here.I have seen Judyth change so many things to conform to the tough questions asked of her. I don't want to raise questions here because I don't want to tip Judyth off. If her story is legitimate then she can enhance her credibility in a number of ways: produce the physical evidence, i.e., the Oswald handwriting, the Mary Ferrell tape recording, etc. and submit herself to questions that she doesn't have a chance to ponder and choose which one's to ignore and answer. The truth can defend itself. If she does not produce the evidence she claims to have do you not agree the failure to do so should construe that evidence against her. Judyth had stated she wasn't going to subject herself to any further questions but she has appeared on the radio, etc. It is easy to fool the unknowing. There were , as I mentioned before, aspects of her story that at first intriqued me, i.e., where would she get the idea that she and Oswald were going to write a science fiction book? I discovered how she was able to do that. I am always reticent with witnesses who embrace their own celebrity. Judyth has motive to fabricate and I believe that could be exposed. Do you really believe she could remember all the dialogue she writes? I certainly could not. Whoever Oswald was I do not believe any evidence establishes he was a James Bond-Renaissance man character. As far as Armstrong, you can see I was one of the many people he dedicated the book to, so many things were run by me directly. I do believe there are stronger aspects of his book than others and I have questions but most people do not know the right questions to ask. I am curious. Did Judyth contact you or did you contact her?

My best,

Doug Weldon

Doug: I am pretty sure that I contacted her. I was asked to help by another forum member. This was to try to get the Anna Lewis video. But I am not in touch with Ms. Conway so I had no way to accomplish that, other than enlist others to assist.

I have not followed her every word. Just do not have the time. As far as the dialogue goes in her book I am assuming this is mostly made up. No one could remember ACTUAL dialoge from that long ago. So it has to be paraphrased.

I do not know what celebrity she has embraced or what motive she would have for ruining her life and not being able to be in this country with her children and grandchildren.

That part of the Love Affair that jumped out at me as false was when they "accidentally" met. But in reading her book it became clear that this meeting was no accident. I would indeed like to see the handwriting tested and any other recordings she claims to have. But would even this satisify people?

Even her detractors agree that they worked at Reily together.

Dawn

"TOGETHER"? At the same time is more accurate. They worked in different areas in a large company. Would the CIA recruit

a 19-year-old for a sensitive assignment and pair her with an undercover operative involved in penetrating Castro groups?

Why?

Jack

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With Harrys knowledge; to post;

Judyth; A Heads up.... Permission was not asked for nor granted,from Harry, why not...??.

Hi BerniceAs JVB has spread my face with some confessedly incorrect statements on her recently discovered blog, I wish to verify the significance re; flowers...http://judythbaker.blogspot.com/

placed on Oswald's grave from 24 November 1965 and continued forseveral years. {It is not possible to access her blog}.The purpose of the flowers was simply to support specific four to eightline poems,intended to provoke authorities into cracking open the Archivedoor.At some point I read that the then president Johnson furiously ordered his people to find who the guilty party was.The Los Angeles bureau office, tried 'every method to discourage' thoseannual deliveries.Just wanted this known. Until later... Harry aka Hj

Bernice,

Could you please send me a private message as to how I might contact Mr. Dean?

Thank you,

Dean

Bernice,

Cancel the private message. Judyth has removed all references to Harry Dean on her web site and has asked me to convey her apologies to him.

Dean

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With Harrys knowledge; to post;

Judyth; A Heads up.... Permission was not asked for nor granted,from Harry, why not...??.

Hi BerniceAs JVB has spread my face with some confessedly incorrect statements on her recently discovered blog, I wish to verify the significance re; flowers...http://judythbaker.blogspot.com/

placed on Oswald's grave from 24 November 1965 and continued forseveral years. {It is not possible to access her blog}.The purpose of the flowers was simply to support specific four to eightline poems,intended to provoke authorities into cracking open the Archivedoor.At some point I read that the then president Johnson furiously ordered his people to find who the guilty party was.The Los Angeles bureau office, tried 'every method to discourage' thoseannual deliveries.Just wanted this known. Until later... Harry aka Hj

Bernice,

Could you please send me a private message as to how I might contact Mr. Dean?

Thank you,

Dean

Bernice,

Cancel the private message. Judyth has removed all references to Harry Dean on her web site and has asked me to convey her apologies to him.

Dean

thanks for the information Dean, you could have contacted him through the forum's email, he is a member, he has been following this thread i do believe , so i imagine, he will have read your information...b

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I think the handwriting and recordings would go a long way towards establishing her credibility, especially the handwriting. The failure to do so speaks loudly against her veracity as does her refusal to answer tough questions.. Absent those things, because of the obvious contradictions and provable falsehoods she is more than highly suspect.

Agreed, Doug. Interestingly, the claim about having anything with Oswald's handwriting on it seems to have emerged late. The first mention I can find is mid-2003 in a couple of newsgroup posts ... and then just what the writing is supposedly in/on is not mentioned. It only came up then because someone had once asked if she didn't have a love letter or something Oswald had written as part of her evidence.

Martin Shackelford posted July 8, 2003, alt.assassination.jfk:

"As for materials in Oswald's handwriting, you can see that in the book."

In a further exchange on July 20, 2003, McAdams posted:

"OIC. Harris asked something like "do you have a love letter in

Oswald's handwriting," and she said "no," failing to mention that she

has something *else* in Oswald's handwriting.

Question for Martin, and for lurkers too: when is the absolute

*first* time that Judyth or Team Judyth ever claimed to have something

in Oswald's handwriting?

This sounds like very recent-appearing evidence to me."

It was an interesting question, one for which I see no response. The first time I find (via google) that "Pocket Aristotle" was mentioned on that newsgroup was not until August 2006. Her first book came out in 2006 and contains a photo of the pages as well as the story about LHO having written in it.

The "Harris" referred to in John's post is Robert Harris .... who had many long conversations with Judyth early on ... in 1999. He had asked her if she had anything with LHO's writing on it, and she had said "no."

DEADLY ALLIANCE, the early outline penned by Judyth with Howard Platzman contains no mention of her having Oswald's handwriting on anything that I can find, and there is no mention of the Pocket Aristotle.

I don't know about you, Doug, but if I was claiming to have known Oswald personally, and had his handwriting in the margins of a book, I would first have it certified by a professional examiner, and then it would be the first thing I would shout from the roof tops.

Bests,

Barb :-)

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I think the handwriting and recordings would go a long way towards establishing her credibility, especially the handwriting. The failure to do so speaks loudly against her veracity as does her refusal to answer tough questions.. Absent those things, because of the obvious contradictions and provable falsehoods she is more than highly suspect.

Agreed, Doug. Interestingly, the claim about having anything with Oswald's handwriting on it seems to have emerged late. The first mention I can find is mid-2003 in a couple of newsgroup posts ... and then just what the writing is supposedly in/on is not mentioned. It only came up then because someone had once asked if she didn't have a love letter or something Oswald had written as part of her evidence.

Martin Shackelford posted July 8, 2003, alt.assassination.jfk:

"As for materials in Oswald's handwriting, you can see that in the book."

In a further exchange on July 20, 2003, McAdams posted:

"OIC. Harris asked something like "do you have a love letter in

Oswald's handwriting," and she said "no," failing to mention that she

has something *else* in Oswald's handwriting.

Question for Martin, and for lurkers too: when is the absolute

*first* time that Judyth or Team Judyth ever claimed to have something

in Oswald's handwriting?

This sounds like very recent-appearing evidence to me."

It was an interesting question, one for which I see no response. The first time I find (via google) that "Pocket Aristotle" was mentioned on that newsgroup was not until August 2006. Her first book came out in 2006 and contains a photo of the pages as well as the story about LHO having written in it.

The "Harris" referred to in John's post is Robert Harris .... who had many long conversations with Judyth early on ... in 1999. He had asked her if she had anything with LHO's writing on it, and she had said "no."

DEADLY ALLIANCE, the early outline penned by Judyth with Howard Platzman contains no mention of her having Oswald's handwriting on anything that I can find, and there is no mention of the Pocket Aristotle.

I don't know about you, Doug, but if I was claiming to have known Oswald personally, and had his handwriting in the margins of a book, I would first have it certified by a professional examiner, and then it would be the first thing I would shout from the roof tops.

Bests,

Barb :-)

Barb:

Absolutely. Very interesting but not a surprise. This seems to be very consistent with everything.

Best,

Doug

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Guest Robert Morrow

"TOGETHER"? At the same time is more accurate. They worked in different areas in a large company. Would the CIA recruit

a 19-year-old for a sensitive assignment and pair her with an undercover operative involved in penetrating Castro groups?

Why?

Jack

Absolutely. They were both young and in New Orleans. Judyth Vary Baker was under the wings of a big time player Dr. Ochsner. When a big time intelligence player is your mentor things just seem to happen your way. Or not your way if you offend them as Judyth did when she rebelled against putting cancer in the inmates of LA prisons.

Just because LHO might have been run by James Angleton or David Atlee Phillips does not mean that Judyth was being run by anyone or treated the same way as LHO. Judyth was the golden girl cancer researcher until Ochsner's wings and she and LHO probably got hooked up because they were in proximity, not because of some grand CIA scheme or master plan.

I think that Judyth Vary Baker is an incredibly important witness to truth in the JFK assassintion. Not that one should believe EVERYTHING she says ... but that is true of anyone.

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'Robert Morrow' date='08 December 2010 - 04:26 AM' timestamp='1291782382' post='214153'

"TOGETHER"? At the same time is more accurate. They worked in different areas in a large company. Would the CIA recruit

a 19-year-old for a sensitive assignment and pair her with an undercover operative involved in penetrating Castro groups?

Why?

Jack

Absolutely. They were both young and in New Orleans. Judyth Vary Baker was under the wings of a big time player Dr. Ochsner. When a big time intelligence player is your mentor things just seem to happen your way. Or not your way if you offend them as Judyth did when she rebelled against putting cancer in the inmates of LA prisons.

Just because LHO might have been run by James Angleton or David Atlee Phillips does not mean that Judyth was being run by anyone or treated the same way as LHO. Judyth was the golden girl cancer researcher until Ochsner's wings and she and LHO probably got hooked up because they were in proximity, not because of some grand CIA scheme or master plan.

I think that Judyth Vary Baker is an incredibly important witness to truth in the JFK assassintion. Not that one should believe EVERYTHING she says ... but that is true of anyone.

I considered this very laughable until I saw you wrote "PROBABLY" and then I realized you had no evidence of anything said. Opinions are not facts.

Jack

Edited by Jack White
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Absolutely. They were both young and in New Orleans. Judyth Vary Baker was under the wings of a big time player Dr. Ochsner. When a big time intelligence player is your mentor things just seem to happen your way. Or not your way if you offend them as Judyth did when she rebelled against putting cancer in the inmates of LA prisons.

Just because LHO might have been run by James Angleton or David Atlee Phillips does not mean that Judyth was being run by anyone or treated the same way as LHO. Judyth was the golden girl cancer researcher until Ochsner's wings and she and LHO probably got hooked up because they were in proximity, not because of some grand CIA scheme or master plan.

I think that Judyth Vary Baker is an incredibly important witness to truth in the JFK assassintion. Not that one should believe EVERYTHING she says ... but that is true of anyone.

Robert:

What do you believe she is not telling the truth about?

Doug Weldon

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