Martin Hinrichs Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) Chris In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things. (1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames. (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ? Click on Attachment: (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters Robin thats a good question. I believe this a motion caused by the sitting Beatrice Hester (possibly a reflection on her bag) close after the headshot. Here a Crop of Chris's great GIF enhanced. best Martin Edit: After watching the Bronson Still photo it looks like she was standing. Edited November 6, 2010 by Martin Hinrichs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) Well, I suppose but I think it's much more likely that she was filming UM who was certainly unusual enough to merit a second or so of footage. As for poor Duncan, he was obviously wrong again, which is why he went into another incoherent fantasy babble. I cannot imagine what it must feel like being him I didn't think your theories could get any sillier, Robert, but you're trumping yourself here by a long way, and proving once again that you haven't a clue about varying perspectives in varying photographs. Cutting the limo out of Bronson tp prove a line of sight is just hilarious. ROFLMAO! You seem to think that you can insert a line or an arrow and convince everyone of anything you like, no matter how idiotic it is. Hey! Why don't you draw an arrow pointing upward, over B.L.'s head so that you can claim she was filming a UFO?? I bet Bill would buy it! Edited November 6, 2010 by Robert Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Harris Posted November 6, 2010 Author Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) And the witnesses were overwhelmingly consistent about the shots they were able to hear and when they heard them. The fact that you have to endlessly make up excuses for why they fully corroborate me tells us much more about you than it does about them. BTW, when are you going to answer my question about when you think the shots were fired?? Is this just a case of bashfulness or are you still looking for a pair of dry pants I offered three examples of shooting sequences offered by witnesses who also heard gunfire and they didn't match - that is a fact. People who have seen your claims over the years say that its always been junk research based on the most meaningless details ... like the closed fist garbage you set out to push recently. About the 'when the shots were fired' .... My opinions on that have been known for years by what must be everyone, but you despite my debating my thoughts with you for weeks now. Save this for later reference so not to have to ask me again or to wrongly state that I have not answered this question. Shots that I believe occurred and when .... The first shot came between Betzner's photo and the Willis photo. There are several reasons for my saying this ... one man said he had just snapped his picture when the first loud explosion came and the other man said he heard the explosion and took his photo at the same instant .... possibly a half a second later. JFK on the Zapruder film appears to be waving and smiling at the women with Woodward just as his hand immediately comes back into the limo and across his face where it continues on to both hands being in front of his mouth. This action also falls between the Betzner and Willis photos. The next shot fired would be the one that hit Connally in the shoulder, thus driving him forward and downward immediately on impact. I have stated over the years with stabilized clips showing this moment of impact. I have spoken about the "transfer of momentum" and how it applied to Z223/224 (the moment the energy of the imapct of the bullet was transferred as it went through Connally's shoulder and chest) The next shot came when the man Ed Hoffman saw had fired a shot from the fence which caused smoke drift out from under the trees that Holland, Simmons, Dodd, and so on reported seeing at that instant. The second shot from the fence came from the Badge Man location in my view. I say this because I have seen the Badge Man work that Jack and Gary did. I believe from the photographic film record that Arnold was on the knoll and that Jack and Gary's work support Arnold's story. I also have personally spoke to Earl Golz as to what Yarborough said to him pertaining to seeing Arnold. As to the why the Badgeman shot came second is two fold ... Moorman's photo was taken 3/18ths of a second after JFK's head exploded between Z312 and Z313. Knowing that a bullet traveling at 2000 fps would go from the fence to the street in only a fraction of 1/18th of a second and because Mrs. Edna Hartman said that she witnessed a furrow in the grass leading back to the Badge Man location that an officer confirmed was a bullet strike .... and because JFK's head didn't explode twice, I find suffient evidence that the more likely scenario I have just stated is supported by the evidence when taken as a whole. I am also aware of a shot being reported sparking off the street ... though not during the Towner filming as you attempted to lean towards, but later when the limo was near the Chism's. I also believe a shot missed the car and hit the curb near James Tauge. These additional shots, if they were shots, would total six bullets fired, which is the same amount of impulses thought to be discovered on the Police dicta-belt recording. What I have just stated has been posted on not only this forum, but Lancer's over the years. So please read it - save it to your research notes so not to error again by saying I have never stated my views on this matter. If you continue with the same modus-operandi, then I will have no choice but to refer you to the archives. Bill Miller By the frame number or range of frame numbers please? Edited November 6, 2010 by Robert Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) The illumination on her upper body, head and right arm is an indicator (taking into account sun location and shadows) , imo, that she is filming the limo. Her legs indicate she is deliberately set up for a pan, ie an indicator as well that she is filming. (I'm really curious about why this film is not available.) edit add: just a thought. In the Bell film there's a cop in a dark longcoat walking with a woman towards the terminal annexe, she had some sort of scarf and was carrying something, not wearing a coat. I wonder if somwone could post a good frame of these two? Edited November 6, 2010 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) By the frame number or range of frame numbers please? If you do actual research with what has been provided you, then you would know that I place JFK's reaction to being hit first between Z193-Z195. Connally's impact was clearly stated several times to be at Z223/224. The head shot has also been repeatedly said to have occurred between Z312/Z313. The Moorman photo was exposed between Z315/Z316 and that is also a well known position I have posted for years. Zapruder film with gun shots inserted (click on the image) The missed shots I can not pinpoint to any given film frame. I hope this response has added something new to your understanding of my position that wasn't already well known. Bill Miller Edited November 6, 2010 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Robert, no one, not even Jim DiEugenio, is going to buy your latest theory, that instead of filming the president, the Babushka lady decided to film a bystander with an umbrella. I can't wait to see your next ground breaking theory. The BL (who I believe to be Bev Oliver) can be seen panning the limo as it passed by her location, which implies to me that she was filming the President as she said she was and not filming a guy with an umbrella. I would think that common sense would win out that everyone in the Plaza, especially along the streets, were there to see the nations First Couple and not to film people with umbrellas. And before another silly response is offered up my Harris ... I am not saying that the BL didn't capture the umbrella man in her film as the President's limo passed between he and her. Bill Miller Occam's razor: The principle is popularly summarized as "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one." The principle of Occam's Razor recommends selecting the competing hypothesis that makes the fewest new assumptions (aka postulates, entities). It is also important that the two hypotheses be equal in other respects; for instance, they must both sufficiently explain available data in the first place. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Very nice summary, Martin. Thank you Duncan Thanks Martin / Chris Very nice work as always. Chris In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things. (1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames. (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ? Click on Attachment: Thanks Robin, I'm a little more interested in the red box and surrounding area. That looks like the guy in Z. Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them. chris P.S. I believe Martin has it correct in that, it is a newspaper reflection, which is held by Beatrice Hester. If that is the area you are describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 For future reference: I place JFK's reaction to being hit first between Z193-Z195. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 For future reference: Connally's impact from a bullet appears to have come at Z223/224. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 For future reference: The head shot occurred between Z312/Z313. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 (edited) I agree with that, Bill. Another short video which I made a while ago which shows the reaction. Yes, a picture is worth a thousand words. Action and reaction and understanding the differences is most helpful. (click on image below to activate) People like Harris don't seem to know that Connally demonstrated before the press cameras his (head) turn to the right to see the President. It was that turn that Connally said he was looking for when he examined the transparencies that Life Magazine provided him. Had Harris of known this, then I don't think he would be thinking the later full torso turn was what was meant. JFK's reaction started when he stopped his wave and first started bringing his hand into the car and across his face. The President and Connally disappeared for just over a second and when JFK emerged he was already in the process of bringing his hands up to his mouth as Connally's right shoulder was being shoved forward and downward with what could be little else than the transfer of momentum from the second shot going through his upper torso. Bill Miller Edited November 6, 2010 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Very nice summary, Martin. Thank you Duncan Thanks Martin / Chris Very nice work as always. Chris In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things. (1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames. (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ? Click on Attachment: Thanks Robin, I'm a little more interested in the red box and surrounding area. That looks like the guy in Z. Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them. chris P.S. I believe Martin has it correct in that, it is a newspaper reflection, which is held by Beatrice Hester. If that is the area you are describing. Chris / Martin What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8 Click on thumbnail Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Very nice summary, Martin. Thank you Duncan Thanks Martin / Chris Very nice work as always. Chris In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things. (1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames. (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ? Click on Attachment: Thanks Robin, I'm a little more interested in the red box and surrounding area. That looks like the guy in Z. Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them. chris P.S. I believe Martin has it correct in that, it is a newspaper reflection, which is held by Beatrice Hester. If that is the area you are describing. Chris / Martin What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8 Chris I see two more areas left of your red square where there also appears to be some movement. Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) Quote: Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them. Chris. I think your red square is close to the Altgens, Bothun, Summers area. unfortunately the tree is blocking the view Edited November 7, 2010 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Very nice summary, Martin. Thank you Duncan Thanks Martin / Chris Very nice work as always. Chris In your Bronson GIF i noticed two things. (1)- the Toni Foster "side step" as can be seen in the nix frames. (2)- something happening in the East pergola area,just near the Hesters looks like a man walking out of the left side of the pergola, possible Charles Hester on the move ? Click on Attachment: Thanks Robin, I'm a little more interested in the red box and surrounding area. That looks like the guy in Z. Should we also see at least one of the three down closer to the street? Altgen's being one of them. chris P.S. I believe Martin has it correct in that, it is a newspaper reflection, which is held by Beatrice Hester. If that is the area you are describing. Chris / Martin What is see is a small BLACK shape appearing in frame 8 Click on thumbnail hi robin; upper right hand corner square is that not the hesters getting up from their bench and beginning their run down the knoll......best b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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