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Michael has remained silent in this thread since writing this on Nov 23:

"Finally, your [Greg] claim that most people reading the blogger's quote of Marina would make the same assumption that you did, that

it came from Armstrong, is specious. Anyone familiar with Armstrong's work would recognize that he would never claim that

Marina Oswald said those exact words. There were other authors cited by the blogger; what made you think that it was something

Armstrong claimed? I'll give you a one word answer - vendetta."

Obviously no apology necessary for wrongly accusing me of making up something to further an imaginary vendetta.

But with the highlighted words, you, Michael have erased any credibility you may have had in discussing Armstrong's work.

bump

I was always willing to be convinced.

I saw that when I Googled. Those sources were for that author's entire essay. I don't believe that Armstrong

ever used that quote and would have to be shown where he did in order to be convinced otherwise.

Doug Weldon convinced me. You didn't.

I didn't accuse you of making anything up. Let me note that you were the one that coined the word vendetta in our discussion,

claiming that I had one against you. Before this thread, when's the last time I've commented on anything you've posted?

And yeah, I've taken my time in responding to you. I did so, knowing you would bump the topic sooner or later, which you did.

I really didn't want to go back and revisit how you think I have an obligation to criticize others for what they write about you in order

to demonstrate my fairness, or ask John Simkin whether or not you are a whiner, or how you think I have a vendetta against you.

All because I asked you for your source:

Greg, can you tell me where Armstrong used that quote?

If you had been able to do what Doug Weldon did, our discussion would have never taken place.

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Michael has remained silent in this thread since writing this on Nov 23:

"Finally, your [Greg] claim that most people reading the blogger's quote of Marina would make the same assumption that you did, that it came from Armstrong, is specious. Anyone familiar with Armstrong's work would recognize that he would never claim that Marina Oswald said those exact words. There were other authors cited by the blogger; what made you think that it was something Armstrong claimed? I'll give you a one word answer - vendetta."

Obviously no apology necessary for wrongly accusing me of making up something to further an imaginary vendetta.

But with the highlighted words, you, Michael have erased any credibility you may have had in discussing Armstrong's work.

bump

I was always willing to be convinced.

[which is why I said]I saw that when I Googled. Those sources were for that author's entire essay. I don't believe that Armstrong ever used that quote and would have to be shown where he did in order to be convinced otherwise.

Doug Weldon convinced me. You didn't.

You don't own the book, Michael? If so, you're like a member of church choir without a hymn book; a Marine without a manual; a spitoon without spit....

I didn't accuse you of making anything up.

"Finally, your [Greg] claim that most people reading the blogger's quote of Marina would make the same assumption that you did, that it came from Armstrong, is specious."

SPECIOUS

: having deceptive attraction or allure

: having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic

Synonyms: beguiling, deceitful, deceiving, deluding, delusive, delusory, fallacious, false, misleading, deceptive

Let me note that you were the one that coined the word vendetta in our discussion, claiming that I had one against you. Before this thread, when's the last time I've commented on anything you've posted?

When you first asked, I took no offense and apologised if I was wrong. The vendetta issue arose, not because of that question, as you want all to believe, but because of what followed in subsequent exchanges. You childishly then tried to apply it to my critiques of some of the evidence in the two Oswald theory.

And yeah, I've taken my time in responding to you. I did so, knowing you would bump the topic sooner or later, which you did.

If you had responded at the time, I wouldn't have needed to bump.

I really didn't want to go back and revisit how you think I have an obligation to criticize others for what they write about you in order to demonstrate my fairness,

Fair enough. You can just go ahead and continue to nit pick me every time I critique the 2Oz theory, ignore everyone else, and pretend that doesn't amount to a vendetta.

or ask John Simkin whether or not you are a whiner, or how you think I have a vendetta against you.

Of course. Why would you want to check to see if your accusation has any foundation in fact? That would spoil things.

All because I asked you for your source:

Greg, can you tell me where Armstrong used that quote?

I know that's how you want to portray it, but the facts tell a different story. See above.

If you had been able to do what Doug Weldon did, our discussion would have never taken place.

Nice deflection. Not even Jack White was able to do it.

Now maybe you would like to clarify this? "Anyone familiar with Armstrong's work would recognize that he would never claim that Marina Oswald said those exact words."

I'm guessing you didn't believe Armstrong would take the words spoken by Marina so literally - which is the reason I believe it should not have been used. It is just one of those "He was such a nice man, who would guess he would ever chop up his family" type statements.But he did take it literally, and used it in his book.

Correct me if my guess is wrong.

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Michael has remained silent in this thread since writing this on Nov 23:

"Finally, your [Greg] claim that most people reading the blogger's quote of Marina would make the same assumption that you did, that it came from Armstrong, is specious. Anyone familiar with Armstrong's work would recognize that he would never claim that Marina Oswald said those exact words. There were other authors cited by the blogger; what made you think that it was something Armstrong claimed? I'll give you a one word answer - vendetta."

Obviously no apology necessary for wrongly accusing me of making up something to further an imaginary vendetta.

But with the highlighted words, you, Michael have erased any credibility you may have had in discussing Armstrong's work.

bump

I was always willing to be convinced.

[which is why I said]I saw that when I Googled. Those sources were for that author's entire essay. I don't believe that Armstrong ever used that quote and would have to be shown where he did in order to be convinced otherwise.

Doug Weldon convinced me. You didn't.

You don't own the book, Michael? If so, you're like a member of church choir without a hymn book; a Marine without a manual; a spitoon without spit....

I didn't accuse you of making anything up.

"Finally, your [Greg] claim that most people reading the blogger's quote of Marina would make the same assumption that you did, that it came from Armstrong, is specious."

SPECIOUS

: having deceptive attraction or allure

: having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic

Synonyms: beguiling, deceitful, deceiving, deluding, delusive, delusory, fallacious, false, misleading, deceptive

Let me note that you were the one that coined the word vendetta in our discussion, claiming that I had one against you. Before this thread, when's the last time I've commented on anything you've posted?

When you first asked, I took no offense and apologised if I was wrong. The vendetta issue arose, not because of that question, as you want all to believe, but because of what followed in subsequent exchanges. You childishly then tried to apply it to my critiques of some of the evidence in the two Oswald theory.

And yeah, I've taken my time in responding to you. I did so, knowing you would bump the topic sooner or later, which you did.

If you had responded at the time, I wouldn't have needed to bump.

I really didn't want to go back and revisit how you think I have an obligation to criticize others for what they write about you in order to demonstrate my fairness,

Fair enough. You can just go ahead and continue to nit pick me every time I critique the 2Oz theory, ignore everyone else, and pretend that doesn't amount to a vendetta.

or ask John Simkin whether or not you are a whiner, or how you think I have a vendetta against you.

Of course. Why would you want to check to see if your accusation has any foundation in fact? That would spoil things.

All because I asked you for your source:

Greg, can you tell me where Armstrong used that quote?

I know that's how you want to portray it, but the facts tell a different story. See above.

If you had been able to do what Doug Weldon did, our discussion would have never taken place.

Nice deflection. Not even Jack White was able to do it.

Now maybe you would like to clarify this? "Anyone familiar with Armstrong's work would recognize that he would never claim that Marina Oswald said those exact words."

I'm guessing you didn't believe Armstrong would take the words spoken by Marina so literally - which is the reason I believe it should not have been used. It is just one of those "He was such a nice man, who would guess he would ever chop up his family" type statements.But he did take it literally, and used it in his book.

Correct me if my guess is wrong.

Back to the Oswald's... a few days ago, I was checking some material regarding Thomas Eli Davis, III; Ruby's gun-running pal, who was arrested in Morocco around the time of the assassination of JFK.....The following should explain things more clearly, it was on the Lansdale, thread, believe it or not....

At any rate, I discovered a reference in the CIA files to a slew of Oswald names, that I couldn't make heads or tails out of.....

The article on Adele Oswald, I believe, however anachronistic is interesting, but the classified ad citing Mrs. Oswald, really got my attention....

So for those who are still looking......

Another thing that may be more than incidental, which, in essence, is a correction to something I posted.

But, the kind of mistake, that I am glad I made, because, it made me look a little deeper.

I had posted earlier on this thread, [Lansdale] that when Thomas Eli Davis was arrested in Morocco, Jack Ruby's friend,

that he had documents referencing Oswald and Ruby.

Well, according to Oswald Talked authors, Mary and Ray LaFontaine, the Oswald referenced in Thomas Eli Davis' notes

"was Victor Oswald, an international arms dealer in Madrid, and the Adnan Koshoggi of his day."

I tried to ascertain the source they cite, it is definitely not a declassified document, and appears to be the "Files of

Seth Kantor obtained from Bill Adams."

However, I did find other citations regarding Victor Oswald one on maryferrell.org from April 11, 1950, March 27, 1950, and July 21, 1950

and a Viktor and Rudolph Oswald from Aug 23, 1950 file 450 file 8-6 [with reference to file 8-6 see below]

See

Oswald 201 File, Misc Docs, Set 2*

http://www.maryferre...6&relPageId=154

* Note the list of Oswald's that cites Victor Oswald, I found at the link above.

The complete list of names I had posted here on the Forum some time ago, I believe under the thread

entitled Svaltapuk Oswald. It is also noteworthy that at the bottom of the page

listing which includes Victor Oswald, there is an asterisk next to the names of Rudolph Oswald and Viktor Oswald

the notation

"Same Document. File 8-6 was entitled East-West Trade [redacted] Reports. File Destroyed [redacted]"

But the really interesting one was from the National Archives

reprinted here:

Records of the Office of Strategic Services RG 226

12389 - Safehaven report on Baquera, Kusche and Martin S.A. in Spain. 3 pp. July 1945; see also XL 13247 Safehaven report on Baquera Kusche, and Martin (BAKUMAR), German- controlled Spanish customs and shipping agents; includes information on use of BAKUMAR by German intelligence. 37 pp. July 1945; XL 23982 Report on Baquera, Kusche & Martin, S.A., Spain. 4 pp. Oct. 1945; XL 24199 Report that Baquera, Kusche y Martin of Irun, Spain, owe Willers Engel & Co., of Hamburg, Germanty 840 RM. 1 p. Oct. 1945; XL 30649 Proposed sale of Bacuera, Kusche & Martin to Victor Oswald (Swiss) and Emilio Colon (Catalan). 1 p. November 1945

It was then that I wrote on the Lansdale thread.....

Are we looking at a page out of the Oswald Project, the one that only two people ever mentioned by name.

Richard Helms and discredited CIA Accountant James Wilcott?

Notice two different sources, both are related to Spain.

I did find a reference to Safehaven at Mary Ferrell's website, but it didn't go into details about anything that would have

pertained to a Victor Oswald or arms dealers, but it does explain what SAFEHAVEN was.

Church Committee: Book VI - Supplementary Reports on Intelligence Activities

Current Section: VII. Civilian Intelligence

http://www.maryferre...2&relPageId=236

One other intelligence unit maintained, in part, by the State Department was the Economic Warfare Division of the London Embassy

and Consulate General..........

The Economic Warfare Division was established in the Embassy in London in March of 1942 and remained in existence until June 1945.

...its top personnel being drawn to a large extent from the Foreign Economic Administration and the Office of Strategic Services.

...By March 1945 it was concerned with postwar occupation problems. It began to gather data on "Safehaven" Operations, (the prevention

of enemy property from finding a safe haven in neutral territory);

I attempted to find out more about the arms dealer named Victor Oswald, even going so far to check some books I do not have

Life Magazine issue during the pertinent time frame, et cetera, without any success, however I did find a couple

of things that made the effort worthwhile the classified notice is more than interesting because, I am almost certain

that the Oswald's were living on Worth Street in Dallas in circa 1945, 1946.....

Dallas Morning News November 14, 1909

The above picture represents Miss Adele Oswald, prima donna, [opera]

of the Top of the World Company, mounted on her famous Kentucky

jumper, Vladimer. Miss Oswald is a famous horsewoman and her zeal

and entries have wone for her many blue ribbons at the various horse shows

of New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City and Louisville. She is a daughter

of Hon John F. Oswald of Lake Forest, Ill. Mr. Oswald was one of the earliest

settlers of Chicago and was very prominent in the growth of that marvelous city.

Miss Oswald, aside from being an accomplished horsewoman, is a girl of rare

beauty and posesses a soprano voice of a very high and mellow sweetness.

She has studied abroad and was a favorite pupil of the world's greatest voice

culturer and builder Madame Marchesi, of France. Miss Oswald has been

privileged to study under the two famous deReszke brothers Jean and Placon,

the greatest tenor and barytone the world has ever known. Miss Oswald

will be seen with the Top of the World when produced here Nov. 19 and 20.

Dallas Morning News July 20, 1946

Classified Section page Eight

Bookeepers, Stenographers G-2

Secretary-Steno able to translate Spanish, German, Italian

Experienced, dependable, trustworthy, free to travel

MRS OSWALD T-7-5796

Final thoughts.

If you notice the phone number,

I'm assuming that is supposed to be a phone number

for MRS Oswald, has only 6 digits, instead of seven, I do not understand why that is.

I realize, or believe that many people are

not real interested in the Oswald Project,

or maybe I should say, James Wilcott, because?

I'm assuming the reason was that the HSCA, or

perhaps Blakey specifically stated that after

investigation, Wilcott's allegations were

proven to be erroneous, or, words to that effect.

Why I believe Wilcott was telling the truth.

There was no rope that Wilcott provided

to hang himself, what the HSCA did, and

first it should be pointed out that Wilcott

had testified, or written in a manuscript

that the Atsugi Station was politically

against the JFK Administration, the hierarchy,

that is, while most of the lower level employee's, of which

James Wilcott was, were pro-Kennedy;

but the atmosphere at the station was so

anti-Kennedy [according to Wilcott] that if you wanted to do well

or maintain a good rapport with the top people

you had better not speak of JFK in a manner that reflected

you, personally approved of his Administration and/or

foreign policy. Wilcott said that the senior members of the

Atsugi Station were "jubilant" at the news of JFK's death.

Jubilant........

Wilcott an accountant, stated

that as someone who maintained records of

agents vouchers for various projects, the agents

were required to provide receipts for expenses

for those projects, which they turned into Wilcott.

It was then ostensibly, that a couple of agents

allegedly told Wilcott, words to the effect,

you remember those receipts I turned in the

other day, those were for the Oswald project.

The way that the CIA and HSCA discredited

Wilcott was pathetic, and they did it on three points.

They stated that Wilcott never went back and rechecked the

official disbursement reports for evidence of the Oswald

project, and that he had never reported the allegation that a case officer

told him Oswald was an agent, or the disbursements allegation to his superiors.

We'll considering the violatle nature of just what was being alleged in 1978 by Wilcott

he was in a no-win situation. He may have decided that he knew the case officer

was telling the truth, and that was good enough for him.

Maybe he was afraid to go back and look at the disbursement

reports, or, he may have actually looked at them and never told anyone he did look at them.

You wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to know that between the CIA and the HSCA

Wilcott was in the eye of a storm, that could grind him up and spit him out

The other allegation against Wilcott was equally bogus, the HSCA said that

in investigating Wilcott's allegations, it went back and interviewed

the appropriate officials at the Station from 1954 onwards and received denials

from those Wilcott cited as sources for Oswald as a CIA agent and the project

Oswald nomenclature as ever having taken place.

Here is their analysis of Wilcott's allegations from the HSCA Final Report

http://www.maryferre...0&relPageId=229

Note, you really have to read everything that Wilcott stated to get an idea

of how his statements, were used to refute him.

Well think about it.......

If you worked for the agency as a CIA employee, and someone

had, in effect snitched, citing you as a source, and the CIA

sat you down and asked you about it, are you going to say

yes, I knew Oswald worked for us?

Hell no, of course you're going to deny it, because

you wouldn't want to join the deck of the Titanic with Wilcott.....

Marita Lorenz? I can understand her caravan story not holding up

to scrutiny, but she had a pre-existing, good relationship with Sturgis

from what I understand before the allegation was ever broached.

The only smoking guns the HSCA went after, were those

that placed the blame for JFK's assassination at the feet of the Mafia.....

Edited by Robert Howard
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DMN April 28, 1946 Building Material Shortage Draws Attention to Texas Stone Supplies [excerpt]

By Victor Schoffelmayer

Science Editor of the News

In company with G.A. Parkinson, assistant testing engineer of the University of Texas

engineering laboratory and Edwin A. Ekdahl, geologist of the Texas-Electric Service Company, Fort

Worth, I have travelled through the area west and north of Austin to become familiar

with the revived building stone industry.

February 17, 1952

Texas Swedish Cultural Foundation Will Meet

Col. Sigurd N. Ekdahl, president of the recently organized

Texas Swedish Cultural Foundation will preside at a Dallas meeting

of the foundation Sunday which will be attended by Swedish consul

and Mrs. Gunnar Dryselius of Houston.

Meeting at 7 pm at the home of Mrs. Alice M. Roberts, 8935 Douglas,

the group will discuss the foundation's work of providing international

exchange scholarships for outstanding students in the arts and sciences.

Three Texas students already have been sent to Stockholm, Sweden this year.

Ekdahl is a retiring faculty member of the University of Texas.

I don't know if the Oswald's are the modern age spy family, but they

certainly seem to have been pretty big in the 20th century.

But I suppose, I should add the disclaimer we, [meaning myself]

are all entitled to our opinions.

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trivia Gunnar is typical Swedsh. Dryselius sounds 'foreign'.

Sigurd is more Norwegian, I think; or old Scandinavian.

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