Special Agent Clint Hill

[Pat Speer]

Thanks for the excerpts, Bernice. Either Hill is no longer in control of his faculties, or he has chosen to add entirely new, hightly contradictory testimony at this late stage, which shockingly just happens to buttress the lone assassin nonsense. Yeah, I'm sure we all believe that they took the time to explain the wounds to a Secret Service agent. And isn't that high "neck" wound in the rear convenient?

It's despicable for Hill to have something like this published in his name. Does he really think none of us are aware of the historical record?

I never believed anything Clint Hill said or any of the other Secret Service man. They were complicit in the Kennedy Assassination as much as the shooters were, as much as the planners were. I think some of them should have been fired, especially with the pantomime that went on in Love Field. The Kennedys were sitting in the limo by themselves with no one protecting them. I wonder if there could have been shooters somewhere in Love Field. This SS man is about to start jogging next to the car (which, as yet, did not have a driver) when his boss from the next car told him to move away from the limo. The SS man throws his arms up, as if to reluctantly say, OK. It's possible someone was going to shoot the President at Love Field. Because the Secret Service man threw his arms up with such exaggeration. Someone was watching.

Kathy C

OR...they were bored men just trying to have some fun...

FWIW, I have come to conclude that the men on Kennedy's detail were not involved in his killing, but that SS investigators Thomas Kelley and Elmer Moore were involved in the cover-up...

I say this, in part, because so few of the original statements and testimony of the men on the detail support the single-assassin conclusion. Several, including Roy Kellerman and Emory Roberts, thought the last two shots were bunched together, so close together in fact that they couldn't even tell which of these two hit Kennedy. One, Paul Landis, admitted he'd thought the last shot could have come from the knoll.

The WC's counsel was so worried about this, in fact, that Melvin Eisenberg dashed off a memo to the commissioners telling them that the recollections of the SS eyewitnesses were of no value, and should be rejected when they failed to support the single-assassin conclusion the commission had, quite clearly, already decided upon.

Now, would they have done this if these agents were in on the plot? I doubt it.

[Kathleen Collins]

I never believed anything Clint Hill said or any of the other Secret Service man. They were complicit in the Kennedy Assassination as much as the shooters were, as much as the planners were. I think some of them should have been fired, especially with the pantomime that went on in Love Field. The Kennedys were sitting in the limo by themselves with no one protecting them. I wonder if there could have been shooters somewhere in Love Field. This SS man is about to start jogging next to the car (which, as yet, did not have a driver) when his boss from the next car told him to move away from the limo. The SS man throws his arms up, as if to reluctantly say, OK. It's possible someone was going to shoot the President at Love Field. Because the Secret Service man threw his arms up with such exaggeration. Someone was watching.

Kathy C

OR...they were bored men just trying to have some fun...

FWIW, I have come to conclude that the men on Kennedy's detail were not involved in his killing, but that SS investigators Thomas Kelley and Elmer Moore were involved in the cover-up...

I say this, in part, because so few of the original statements and testimony of the men on the detail support the single-assassin conclusion. Several, including Roy Kellerman and Emory Roberts, thought the last two shots were bunched together, so close together in fact that they couldn't even tell which of these two hit Kennedy. One, Paul Landis, admitted he'd thought the last shot could have come from the knoll.

The WC's counsel was so worried about this, in fact, that Melvin Eisenberg dashed off a memo to the commissioners telling them that the recollections of the SS eyewitnesses were of no value, and should be rejected when they failed to support the single-assassin conclusion the commission had, quite clearly, already decided upon.

Now, would they have done this if these agents were in on the plot? I doubt it.

I still think it stinks. All the SS in the Queen Mary did nothing, except Clint Hill. Bored men who want fun? I guess participating in a presidential assassination was a real drag.

Kathy C

[David Josephs]

It may have been touched upon...

wouldn't the SS have to be told some story that would elicit that poor a response?

An exercise that they were told about ahead of time perhaps... as there really is no way to explain the behavior away...

no two ways, Kellerman should have been over JFK after the first SOUND like a shot.

Greer... speeding off.

what could they have been told to make sure they 1) put the limo out front, and 2) didn't react?

had to have been pretty good.

[Pat Speer]

I never believed anything Clint Hill said or any of the other Secret Service man. They were complicit in the Kennedy Assassination as much as the shooters were, as much as the planners were. I think some of them should have been fired, especially with the pantomime that went on in Love Field. The Kennedys were sitting in the limo by themselves with no one protecting them. I wonder if there could have been shooters somewhere in Love Field. This SS man is about to start jogging next to the car (which, as yet, did not have a driver) when his boss from the next car told him to move away from the limo. The SS man throws his arms up, as if to reluctantly say, OK. It's possible someone was going to shoot the President at Love Field. Because the Secret Service man threw his arms up with such exaggeration. Someone was watching.

Kathy C

OR...they were bored men just trying to have some fun...

FWIW, I have come to conclude that the men on Kennedy's detail were not involved in his killing, but that SS investigators Thomas Kelley and Elmer Moore were involved in the cover-up...

I say this, in part, because so few of the original statements and testimony of the men on the detail support the single-assassin conclusion. Several, including Roy Kellerman and Emory Roberts, thought the last two shots were bunched together, so close together in fact that they couldn't even tell which of these two hit Kennedy. One, Paul Landis, admitted he'd thought the last shot could have come from the knoll.

The WC's counsel was so worried about this, in fact, that Melvin Eisenberg dashed off a memo to the commissioners telling them that the recollections of the SS eyewitnesses were of no value, and should be rejected when they failed to support the single-assassin conclusion the commission had, quite clearly, already decided upon.

Now, would they have done this if these agents were in on the plot? I doubt it.

I still think it stinks. All the SS in the Queen Mary did nothing, except Clint Hill. Bored men who want fun? I guess participating in a presidential assassination was a real drag.

Kathy C

Three of the four bodyguards on the Queen Mary's running board, including Clint Hill, had been out drinking the night before.

[Pat Speer]

It may have been touched upon...

wouldn't the SS have to be told some story that would elicit that poor a response?

An exercise that they were told about ahead of time perhaps... as there really is no way to explain the behavior away...

no two ways, Kellerman should have been over JFK after the first SOUND like a shot.

Greer... speeding off.

what could they have been told to make sure they 1) put the limo out front, and 2) didn't react?

had to have been pretty good.

With the top down on the limo as it rounded that sharp turn, and with more than one shooter, Kennedy was a sitting duck no matter what Greer or Kellerman, or Hill, for that matter, did.

[Bernice Moore]

Agreed Pat, the shots certainly did not come from one direction, to be fair, when the top was off the xp 100, that left a roof support bar, behind the front seat, which the POTUS also used as a support bar when standing on parade.....Kellerman perhaps would have had to have been an olympic jumper to have cleared it and accessed the back seat.....b

[Patrick Block]

It may have been touched upon...

wouldn't the SS have to be told some story that would elicit that poor a response?

An exercise that they were told about ahead of time perhaps... as there really is no way to explain the behavior away...

no two ways, Kellerman should have been over JFK after the first SOUND like a shot.

Greer... speeding off.

what could they have been told to make sure they 1) put the limo out front, and 2) didn't react?

had to have been pretty good.

With the top down on the limo as it rounded that sharp turn, and with more than one shooter, Kennedy was a sitting duck no matter what Greer or Kellerman, or Hill, for that matter, did.

I vehemently disagree with this. If Greer hits the gas, which was his most basic job- and he had six seconds to do this, instead of braking, the scenerio goes from a near stop target to an unpredictable, fastly accelerating target. How can his slowing the vehicle to a crawl not matter? Seriously.

Kellerman and Ready's basic job was to cover the President with their bodies. They also had six seconds to try and do this. Hill stated he was looking the wrong way, and missed Kennedy's reaction to the first shot and lost precious time. So, if Kellerman and Ready had acted promptly and had at least attempted to do their fundamental functions, there is at least a possibility of getting between JFK and that final bullet. Ready would not have had to actually reach JFK to position himself between the Oswald window and a bullet, and Kellerman also might have gottern between a front shooter and JFK without having to actually have reached the President.

Hill, looking the wrong way and presumably hung over, still made the effort to place himself in harms way in a way no other Secret Service member even bothered to attempt. He also has stuck to the right rear fist sized head wound for all these decades, no doubt against great pressures posed against him we can only imagine. Hill is the only one.

It's clear that Roberts and Boring were part of the plot. Probably Sorrels, Blaine, Kellerman and Greer were also compromised.

Over the ages, when kings, dictators, presidents and emperors fall to coups, it's those loyal bodyguards that inevitably are bought that make such things possible. No difference here, just because it happened in the USA, we tend to be idiots about the subject because of our delusions of being somehow superior to the rest of the human race.

Hill was a last minute addition due to Jackie's personal request. It's not really surprising that this basically loyal and decent man was the only one that acted according to his job description. We need to open our eyes to the truth.

[Michael Hogan]

Vince Palamara reads the account of an HSCA interview of SAIC John Marshall (Miami).

"Twice during the interview, Mr. Marshall mentioned that, for all he knew, someone in the Secret Service could possibly have been involved in the assassination."

[Bernice Moore]

THANKS mike, for anyone who has not stayed up to date on the Secret Service, information, Vince Palamara's sites are to be explored, he has presented much information, and tons of documentation that make it apparent that some SS were involved, or knew of what was to be attempted in Dallas...fyi........http://vincepalamara.blogspot.ca/

Edited April 7, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Don Jeffries]

The Secret Service's "performance" in Dallas cannot be excused. IF the first or second shot to hit JFK had been fatal, then I'd agree they couldn't have done anything. However, JFK would have survived his other wounds; the agents heard gunfire, and had about 6 seconds to respond before the fatal head shot. They did absolutely nothing.

I don't believe "turn around and look at the target" was in Greer's instruction manual, as an acceptable response to the sound of gunfire. Kellerman only had to leap over the middle seat to get to JFK- he heard shots, why didn't he shelter his boss with his body, as he was trained to do? Ready, Hill and any other agent on the follow up car was close enough to jump off and get there before the head shot.

Hill reacted- after it was too late. He is showing what kind of character he has now by completely inventing a new element to his testimony. How can he think anyone who's researched this case will accept he never told anyone, for nearly fifty years, that the doctors at Parkland showed him the "neck" wound in the rear and matched it up conveniently for him with the "exit" wound in the throat? Surely he's aware there has been just a bit of controversy about those wounds, and about this case, for decades. And yet, in all his previous statements on the subject, he just neglected to mention it. In my book, Hill has lost whatever shred of integrity he had.

The most obvious suspects in enabling the assassination were the agents on JFK's Secret Service detail.

[Bernice Moore]

Good points Don; in thinking about what has been researched about the speed of the limo, at that time, i wonder now why Kellerman ignoring the bar in his way to the back seat, and it was in his way to clearly jumping into that seat to JFK,see photo four posts above,#21 why not simply open his door, take a few running steps to the back seat door, open or take a flying leap into and cover JFK ,if Hill could do as he did, it was more than possible that kellerman, could have....In The Kennedy Detail,p 27 it is explained, the first thing the driver is to do, at the first sign of trouble,is to take off increasing speed, and to take immediate evasive action, by zig zagging on the road,Greer did neither...hope all is well, take care..b

Edited April 7, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Richard Hocking]

The Secret Service's "performance" in Dallas cannot be excused. IF the first or second shot to hit JFK had been fatal, then I'd agree they couldn't have done anything. However, JFK would have survived his other wounds; the agents heard gunfire, and had about 6 seconds to respond before the fatal head shot. They did absolutely nothing.

...

or over 8 seconds if you use some of the longer estimates of the shooting sequence.

Either way, your point stands: JFK may have survived the first wounds before the Head shot.

[Patrick Block]

If Kellerman simply opens his door and steps out, he covers the right side of the President more easily than anyone e could simply with his presence with the car still rolling forward. He ends up right next to the President without taking a step. It's a ridiculous notion that he couldn't reach JFK to offer protective cover, and he could also have scanned the area to his right and behind with this action. Why does he need to vault over obstructions?

Also, it's perfectly obvious that the best description of what Kellerman actually did was cower as low to the floor as he possibly could while the bullets were flying and he had a job that still needed doing.

Greer is the most damned by inaction. Instead of doing his job of simply slamming down the gas pedal- which he had time to do whether he was my age or not...instead the man faciliates the assassination by greatly slowing the vehicle down so that the assassins have an easier shot.

Emory Roberts, in charge in the follow-up car, which was extremely close to the President's car, actually orders his men to not aid the President- and has the nerve to admit to this after the assassination to the Warren Commission. Hill goes anyways, to his credit. Roberts apparently fibs, and states this happened after the car was accellerating away. His lie is given away by Ready leaping off the running board, and being called back, with the President's car still mere feet away and barely rolling. Roberts also claimed a motorcycle was in the way.

So- if there is something between a President and an agent while shots are flying, the agents are supposed to let the President be killed?

Robert's report after the assassination is interesting in that he lies about the presence of an extra agent inside the car who was not there. Why? Does he really not know who is riding in that single car he is responsible for?

Perhaps he was feeling guilt over ordering an agent off the running board beside the President as it left the airport, which was captured in a now famous video, and felt he would get away with the lie, not realizing film of the assassination would escape the conspirators hands and become public in the far future.

Roberts additionally lies about the distance the President's car was from his car during the shots- he actually has the nerve to claim it was 20-25 feet away, and going 20 to 25 miles an hour!!

Finally, the real kicker is Robert's reward for a job well done. Instead of being fired for various lies and for giving the order to not go to the President's aid, this obviously successful conspirator in the President's death- someone who flagrantly broke his pledge to protect the President, and acted about as wretchedly as was humanly possible- this guy gets promoted for his efforts to the desired position of Inspector at Secret Service Headquarters. Nice payoff.

Among the Warren Commission's great whoppers is their description of the actions of the Secret Serice protection that day. Whenever we consider the value of their evaluation of the assassination evidence, it is an excellent idea to compare their keen observations of the Secret Serice detail's performance to arrive at the Warren Commission's real value as an investigating body.

The Commission's summary-

"The Commission finds that the Secret Service agents in the motorcade who were immediately responsible for the President's safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired. Their actions demonstrate that the President and the Nation can expect courage and devotion to duty from the agents of the Secret Service."

Mark Lane, in his latest book Last Word notes that it was almost as if Kennedy had survived.

[Robin Unger]

Kellerman planting the seed of the stretcher bullet scenario in Finck's brain.

http://history-matte...html/Image3.htm

Edited April 7, 2012 by Robin Unger

[Pat Speer]

If Kellerman simply opens his door and steps out, he covers the right side of the President more easily than anyone e could simply with his presence with the car still rolling forward. He ends up right next to the President without taking a step. It's a ridiculous notion that he couldn't reach JFK to offer protective cover, and he could also have scanned the area to his right and behind with this action. Why does he need to vault over obstructions?

Also, it's perfectly obvious that the best description of what Kellerman actually did was cower as low to the floor as he possibly could while the bullets were flying and he had a job that still needed doing.

Greer is the most damned by inaction. Instead of doing his job of simply slamming down the gas pedal- which he had time to do whether he was my age or not...instead the man faciliates the assassination by greatly slowing the vehicle down so that the assassins have an easier shot.

Emory Roberts, in charge in the follow-up car, which was extremely close to the President's car, actually orders his men to not aid the President- and has the nerve to admit to this after the assassination to the Warren Commission. Hill goes anyways, to his credit. Roberts apparently fibs, and states this happened after the car was accellerating away. His lie is given away by Ready leaping off the running board, and being called back, with the President's car still mere feet away and barely rolling. Roberts also claimed a motorcycle was in the way.

So- if there is something between a President and an agent while shots are flying, the agents are supposed to let the President be killed?

Robert's report after the assassination is interesting in that he lies about the presence of an extra agent inside the car who was not there. Why? Does he really not know who is riding in that single car he is responsible for?

Perhaps he was feeling guilt over ordering an agent off the running board beside the President as it left the airport, which was captured in a now famous video, and felt he would get away with the lie, not realizing film of the assassination would escape the conspirators hands and become public in the far future.

Roberts additionally lies about the distance the President's car was from his car during the shots- he actually has the nerve to claim it was 20-25 feet away, and going 20 to 25 miles an hour!!

Finally, the real kicker is Robert's reward for a job well done. Instead of being fired for various lies and for giving the order to not go to the President's aid, this obviously successful conspirator in the President's death- someone who flagrantly broke his pledge to protect the President, and acted about as wretchedly as was humanly possible- this guy gets promoted for his efforts to the desired position of Inspector at Secret Service Headquarters. Nice payoff.

Among the Warren Commission's great whoppers is their description of the actions of the Secret Serice protection that day. Whenever we consider the value of their evaluation of the assassination evidence, it is an excellent idea to compare their keen observations of the Secret Serice detail's performance to arrive at the Warren Commission's real value as an investigating body.

The Commission's summary-

"The Commission finds that the Secret Service agents in the motorcade who were immediately responsible for the President's safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired. Their actions demonstrate that the President and the Nation can expect courage and devotion to duty from the agents of the Secret Service."

Mark Lane, in his latest book Last Word notes that it was almost as if Kennedy had survived.

This is cruel nonsense, IMO. Monday Morning quarterbacking. Ready did react. Too late. Greer did react. Too late. Kellerman thought he heard the President tell him to get him to a hospital. Roberts saw the impact of the second bullet on Kennedy's head, and knew what this meant, and acted appropriately.

There is a reason Presidents no longer ride in convertibles in motorcades. It's because the JFK assassination proved to the SS, and pretty much everyone, that there's just not enough time under such circumstances for the bodyguards to respond in an effective manner. I mean, really, you hear a sound--you think it could be a motorcycle backfire. By the time you've figured out it is a gun shot 3-4 seconds have passed. This could be, for all you know, the only shot that will be fired. This gives you about 2 seconds to leap on and protect the President...if you think such action is appropriate. But you're in a moving car. You'll have to get out of the car to get to him. You might get run over. You might cause an accident that separates the President from the rest of his bodyguards. Perhaps more shooters are ahead. Perhaps you could save his life by not getting out of the car. It's an impossible situation. And then the next shot is fired. And blows the top of his head off.