Special Agent Clint Hill

[Michael Hogan]

....Kellerman thought he heard the President tell him to get him to a hospital.

Kellerman told Arlen Specter that he heard a voice from the back seat, which he firmly believed was the President's, say "My God, I am hit."

After turning around and seeing that Kennedy was hit, Kellerman got on the mike and radioed Lawson in the lead car: "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately."

[William Kelly]

....Kellerman thought he heard the President tell him to get him to a hospital.

Kellerman told Arlen Specter that he heard a voice from the back seat, which he firmly believed was the President's, say "My God, I am hit."

After turning around and seeing that Kennedy was hit, Kellerman got on the mike and radioed Lawson in the lead car: "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately."

And according to The Kennedy Detail, it was while Kellerman was on the mike talking that the third shot was fired, so that shot should be on a recording, if one exists, of these radio transmissions.

I believe Kellerman was speaking over "Charlie Channel," which should have been recorded at the WHCA switchboard at the Dallas Sheritan. Does anybody know what room they had at the Sheritan.

Thanks,

BK

JFKcountercoup

JFKCountercoup2

[Don Jeffries]

The JFK assassination represented a unique opportunity for everyone to analyze the performance of those whose job it was to protect the President. Because JFK was obviously wounded, but not fatally, several seconds before the head shot, the Secret Service agents had far more time than they would likely have in most assassination scenarios in which to react.

Greer had enough time to slow (or, as some believe, stop) the limousine, and turn around and look at the President. Obviously he heard gunfire, realized JFK was shot, but instead of hitting the accelerator, he violated every precept of common sense, and ignored what he'd been trained to do. He alone could have saved JFK by stepping on the gas. How long does it take to do that?

The Secret Service surely instructs its agents that there will never be more than a few seconds in which to respond to gunfire. If we are to accept that no one could have reacted fast enough to save JFK in Dallas, then what is the purpose of Secret Service agents? Why are they trained to react instantly to gunfire, if they know a gun can be fired faster than they can move?

Regular people like us could be expected to be shocked by gunfire and to be confused for a lot longer than 6-8 seconds. No one would blame a typical motorist if he didn't accelerate instantly away from trouble. These men were well paid professionals, who were employed for the express purpose of reacting far faster than mere mortals to potential trouble. I'm certain that they were especially trained to know what gunfire sounded like, and to immediately throw themselves over the President in such a situation.

We will almost certainly never know the actual shooters' names, or find memos delineating the hierarchy of the conspiratorial planning tree. Therefore, the inexplicable, quite visible non-response on the part of JFK's Secret Service detail is the best evidence we have of identifiable individuals whose actions (or inactions) contributed to the success of the crime.

In any honest investigation of the assassination, those Secret Service agents would have been grilled relentlessly about their curious behavior. Instead, there was an effort then to absolve them of responsibility and to make Clint Hill some kind of hero. Too many CTers still, imho, cling to the belief that it's somehow "wrong" to point fingers at the Secret Service.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

....Kellerman thought he heard the President tell him to get him to a hospital.

Kellerman told Arlen Specter that he heard a voice from the back seat, which he firmly believed was the President's, say "My God, I am hit."

After turning around and seeing that Kennedy was hit, Kellerman got on the mike and radioed Lawson in the lead car: "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately."

And according to The Kennedy Detail, it was while Kellerman was on the mike talking that the third shot was fired, so that shot should be on a recording, if one exists, of these radio transmissions.

I believe Kellerman was speaking over "Charlie Channel," which should have been recorded at the WHCA switchboard at the Dallas Sheritan. Does anybody know what room they had at the Sheritan.

Thanks,

BK

JFKcountercoup

JFKCountercoup2

It is spelled the "Sheraton" Hotel.

Did you know that George Herbert Walker Bush was staying at the Sheraton Hotel on the night of 11/21/63? And that he was supposed to stay there the night of 11/22/63 but instead he flew back to Houston.

I wonder of GHW Bush was coordinating with certain members of the Secret Service in the JFK assassination plans for 11/22/63.

[Kathleen Collins]

Agreed Pat, the shots certainly did not come from one direction, to be fair, when the top was off the xp 100, that left a roof support bar, behind the front seat, which the POTUS also used as a support bar when standing on parade.....Kellerman perhaps would have had to have been an olympic jumper to have cleared it and accessed the back seat.....b

I agree.

Kathy C

[Pat Speer]

The JFK assassination represented a unique opportunity for everyone to analyze the performance of those whose job it was to protect the President. Because JFK was obviously wounded, but not fatally, several seconds before the head shot, the Secret Service agents had far more time than they would likely have in most assassination scenarios in which to react.

Greer had enough time to slow (or, as some believe, stop) the limousine, and turn around and look at the President. Obviously he heard gunfire, realized JFK was shot, but instead of hitting the accelerator, he violated every precept of common sense, and ignored what he'd been trained to do. He alone could have saved JFK by stepping on the gas. How long does it take to do that?

The Secret Service surely instructs its agents that there will never be more than a few seconds in which to respond to gunfire. If we are to accept that no one could have reacted fast enough to save JFK in Dallas, then what is the purpose of Secret Service agents? Why are they trained to react instantly to gunfire, if they know a gun can be fired faster than they can move?

Regular people like us could be expected to be shocked by gunfire and to be confused for a lot longer than 6-8 seconds. No one would blame a typical motorist if he didn't accelerate instantly away from trouble. These men were well paid professionals, who were employed for the express purpose of reacting far faster than mere mortals to potential trouble. I'm certain that they were especially trained to know what gunfire sounded like, and to immediately throw themselves over the President in such a situation.

We will almost certainly never know the actual shooters' names, or find memos delineating the hierarchy of the conspiratorial planning tree. Therefore, the inexplicable, quite visible non-response on the part of JFK's Secret Service detail is the best evidence we have of identifiable individuals whose actions (or inactions) contributed to the success of the crime.

In any honest investigation of the assassination, those Secret Service agents would have been grilled relentlessly about their curious behavior. Instead, there was an effort then to absolve them of responsibility and to make Clint Hill some kind of hero. Too many CTers still, imho, cling to the belief that it's somehow "wrong" to point fingers at the Secret Service.

The men on Kennedy's detail were haunted by their failure to protect him. But it was almost certainly an impossible task. Kennedy himself talked about how easy it would be for someone to kill him. He specifically mentioned a sniper. Why? Because he knew, from his military experience, that a man in an open-topped car was a sitting duck, and the SS could do nothing to protect him. All the other assassination attempts in this country were attempted by someone close-by, with a hand-gun. The Secret Service, in such instance, has the potential to either spot and stop the shooter, or interfere with his shot. But, even then, their record is spotty. Bremer got Wallace. And it was just luck that saved Ford from getting shot...on two different occasions.

As far as the SS men having specialized training...whereby they could recognize shots much easier than others...I've seen nothing to indicate this was true. Many buffs watch the Z-film over and over, and think the sounds of the shots must have been obvious. But this just isn't true. The cheering crowd and the rumbling motorcycles undoubtedly drowned out some of the frequencies related to the gunshots, so that they sounded different than they would sound on a shooting range. If the first shot was fired while the rifle was back in the window, moreover, or was a subsonic round, as many suspect, it would be even harder to identify this sound as a gunshot.

In short, I think it's just cruel to blame the men on Kennedy's detail for his death, and more than cruel to claim they were all (or mostly) in on it. At the 2008 COPA Conference on RFK, there was an unexpected attendee: former Secret Service Agent Darwin Horn. He was assigned to guard Ethel and the kids while Bobby lay dying, and he stopped by to tell his story (and sell a few books). In any event, I talked to him for about five minutes, mostly about Emory Roberts. According to Horn, who claimed to know Roberts fairly well, Roberts was tormented by the Kennedy assassination. When I told Horn some buffs think Roberts was part of the plot, his 80 something face turned red, and he made his disgust quite clear.

Of course, one could say Horn was either naive, or a xxxx. This would explain why, in his 80's, he stopped by a conspiracy convention to tell everyone how much he admired Ethel. Yeah, right.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Glenn Viklund]

The JFK assassination represented a unique opportunity for everyone to analyze the performance of those whose job it was to protect the President. Because JFK was obviously wounded, but not fatally, several seconds before the head shot, the Secret Service agents had far more time than they would likely have in most assassination scenarios in which to react.

Greer had enough time to slow (or, as some believe, stop) the limousine, and turn around and look at the President. Obviously he heard gunfire, realized JFK was shot, but instead of hitting the accelerator, he violated every precept of common sense, and ignored what he'd been trained to do. He alone could have saved JFK by stepping on the gas. How long does it take to do that?

The Secret Service surely instructs its agents that there will never be more than a few seconds in which to respond to gunfire. If we are to accept that no one could have reacted fast enough to save JFK in Dallas, then what is the purpose of Secret Service agents? Why are they trained to react instantly to gunfire, if they know a gun can be fired faster than they can move?

Regular people like us could be expected to be shocked by gunfire and to be confused for a lot longer than 6-8 seconds. No one would blame a typical motorist if he didn't accelerate instantly away from trouble. These men were well paid professionals, who were employed for the express purpose of reacting far faster than mere mortals to potential trouble. I'm certain that they were especially trained to know what gunfire sounded like, and to immediately throw themselves over the President in such a situation.

We will almost certainly never know the actual shooters' names, or find memos delineating the hierarchy of the conspiratorial planning tree. Therefore, the inexplicable, quite visible non-response on the part of JFK's Secret Service detail is the best evidence we have of identifiable individuals whose actions (or inactions) contributed to the success of the crime.

In any honest investigation of the assassination, those Secret Service agents would have been grilled relentlessly about their curious behavior. Instead, there was an effort then to absolve them of responsibility and to make Clint Hill some kind of hero. Too many CTers still, imho, cling to the belief that it's somehow "wrong" to point fingers at the Secret Service.

The men on Kennedy's detail were haunted by their failure to protect him. But it was almost certainly an impossible task. Kennedy himself talked about how easy it would be for someone to kill him. He specifically mentioned a sniper. Why? Because he knew, from his military experience, that a man in an open-topped car was a sitting duck, and the SS could do nothing to protect him. All the other assassination attempts in this country were attempted by someone close-by, with a hand-gun. The Secret Service, in such instance, has the potential to either spot and stop the shooter, or interfere with his shot. But, even then, their record is spotty. Bremer got Wallace. And it was just luck that saved Ford from getting shot...on two different occasions.

As far as the SS men having specialized training...whereby they could recognize shots much easier than others...I've seen nothing to indicate this was true. Many buffs watch the Z-film over and over, and think the sounds of the shots must have been obvious. But this just isn't true. The cheering crowd and the rumbling motorcycles undoubtedly drowned out some of the frequencies related to the gunshots, so that they sounded different than they would sound on a shooting range. If the first shot was fired while the rifle was back in the window, moreover, or was a subsonic round, as many suspect, it would be even harder to identify this sound as a gunshot.

In short, I think it's just cruel to blame the men on Kennedy's detail for his death, and more than cruel to claim they were all (or mostly) in on it. At the 2009 COPA Conference on RFK, there was an unexpected attendee: former Secret Service Agent Darwin Horn. He was assigned to guard Ethel and the kids while Bobby lay dying, and he stopped by to tell his story (and sell a few books). In any event, I talked to him for about ten minutes, mostly about Emory Roberts. According to Horn, who claimed to know Roberts fairly well, Roberts was tormented by the Kennedy assassination. When I told Horn some buffs think Roberts was part of the plot, his 80 something face turned red, and he made his disgust quite clear.

Well put, Pat. On subject after subject you manage to bring a portion of realism into the mix. It is, indeed, badly needed around here.

[Michael Hogan]

I believe Kellerman was speaking over "Charlie Channel," which should have been recorded at the WHCA switchboard at the Dallas Sheritan. Does anybody know what room they had at the Sheritan.

It is spelled the "Sheraton" Hotel.

Despite living in Austin, Morrow did not know how to spell the Driskill Hotel until it was pointed out to him. Prior to that he misspelled it in all of his writings.

HOWEVER, the only real question about Madeleine is whether she is truthful and accurate on what she says. I think the answer is she is full of baloney on some stuff and on other things she delivers GOLDEN INFORMATION.

...As an example, I have huge doubts about that party she describes on 11/21/63 - much of that has been debunked. HOWEVER, I think Madeleine is probably being 100% correct when she says that President Lyndon Johnson told her that it was Texas Oil and the CIA who murdered John Kennedy on 12/31/63. I believe that because there is CONFIRMATION that LBJ was indeed at the Driskell Hotel, here in Austin where I live. The Driskell was a noted LBJ hangout and he would meet his girlfriends there- especially Madeleine.

[Steven Skeen]

Ray Charles could see, even in his current state, the detail surrounding Kennedy was implicitly involved in the coup d'etat that accomplished it's most important task that day. The SS driver, by numerous first hand accounts including Connally's, pulled the limousine over and quite nearly stopped- at best, stopped- at worst. I wonder what Hill says about the autopsy photographs relevant to writing Jackie's statement, "They shot his head off. Oh Jack, what have they done?"

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w30/skeen99/448px-JFK_posterior_head_wound.jpg

artist rendering

[Kathleen Collins]

They did absolutely nothing.

I don't believe "turn around and look at the target" was in Greer's instruction manual, as an acceptable response to the sound of gunfire.

You're absolutely correct. Greer pulled the car to the left (a certain researcher told me), stopped, took his hands off the wheel and tried to get a good look at Kennedy (Altgens photo - Man in the Doorway). Kennedy received 2 shots, one from the Grassy Knoll and possibly one from behind (Zapruder). Greer turned around and sped off in the limo as Hill was trying (successfully) to grab onto the back.

Kathy C

[Pat Speer]

They did absolutely nothing.

I don't believe "turn around and look at the target" was in Greer's instruction manual, as an acceptable response to the sound of gunfire.

You're absolutely correct. Greer pulled the car to the left (a certain researcher told me), stopped, took his hands off the wheel and tried to get a good look at Kennedy (Altgens photo - Man in the Doorway). Kennedy received 2 shots, one from the Grassy Knoll and possibly one from behind (Zapruder). Greer turned around and sped off in the limo as Hill was trying (successfully) to grab onto the back.

Kathy C

(4-7-64, 5-4-64, 5-7-64, 5-8-64, and 7-20-64 interviews of Jacqueline Kennedy by William Manchester, as represented in The Death of a President, 1967) (On Greer's approaching Mrs. Kennedy at Parkland Hospital) "Those who had been in the motorcade were racking their brains with if only this, if only that. One of them came to her. Bill Greer, his face streaked with tears, took her head between his hands and squeezed until she thought he was going to squeeze her skull flat. He cried, 'Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn't mean to do it, I didn't hear, I should have swerved the car, I couldn't help it. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it I swerved. If only I'd seen in time! Oh!' Then he released her head and put his arms around her and wept on her shoulder."

So, why didn't Jackie tell the man she picked out to write an authorized book on the assassination, William Manchester, that Greer stopped the limo? I mean, if she was willing to tell Manchester that Greer cried on her shoulder, why not just say he stopped the limo as well? Or was she in on it, too?

P.S. Unless someone can show us that Greer was an accomplished actor, his crying on Jackie's shoulder is a clear indication he didn't conspire to murder her husband. Just a thought.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Pat,

Glen Ora/Middleburg, DeMohrenschildt coming to dinner on the evening after his WC testimony, politely fielding questions about LHO from tablemate, Dulles in a colossal conflict of ethics and interest and the following "stuff" go a long way to raise my suspicions that both Jackie and Jack were "in on it". In on it, or spectacularly clueless. Was Jack intimate with anyone who wasn't CIA out of the Paris shop (Ben Bradlee) or a close friend of the Bushes (Charles Bartlett)?

Since Jack was the victim, it reads as if he was clueless (as to who was trustworthy enough to confide in) to a level in his private relationships, (even in the cases of Billings and Walton) compromised enough that he had no business being POTUS, that, or everyone who rowed Ivy League Crew, circa 1947 to 1951, was simply an innocent State Department apprentice, and not a CIA NOC.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18989

............

George Ohrstrom was an usher in Peter Matthiessen's (of the Paris Review and the CIA) wedding, as was the sister-in-law of Richard Ober of CIA. Usher Thomas Guinzburg would later hire Jackie Onassis. He was Matthiessen's Yale roommate and presented as not being witty to Matthiessen's CIA affiliation, but Guinzburg's father was OSS minister of propaganda (OWI) and immediately after WWII led a US intelligence program intended to influence what would and would not be suitable subject matter for publication

.....

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14027

Charles Leffingwell Bartlett & Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets" What was the real agenda of Charles L. Bartlett ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Tempelsman

Maurice Tempelsman

[Steven Skeen]

P.S. Unless someone can show us that Greer was an accomplished actor, his crying on Jackie's shoulder is a clear indication he didn't conspire to murder her husband. Just a thought.

Then that paints him as a simple idiot. Corrupted or stupid? Tough way to be recorded by history either way you go.

[Bernice Moore]

Pat Jackie also told a friend , to make sure she got a good driver, shortly after i believe, i will look for the quote as it is not coming up...b

FYI...

http://itwasjohnson....com/zero12a.htm '' YOU SHOULD GET YOURSELF A GOOD DRIVER SO NOTHING EVER HAPPENS TO YOU''JACKIE Kennedy QUOTE; ''my LIFE with jacqueline kennedy .mary barelli Gallagher page..351 1969

Edited April 10, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Here is Abraham Bolden's review and comments on "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir" by Clint Hill.

http://www.amazon.com/Mrs-Kennedy-Me-Intimate-Memoir/dp/1451648448/ref=cm_rdp_product

Abraham Bolden:

I just finished reading Agent Clint Hill's book, Mrs. Kennedy and Me. As an ex-secret service agent and the first African American Agent to serve on the White House Detail under President Kennedy, I want to congratulate Agent Hill on a very well written and interesting memoir. I served on the detail with Agent Hill in 1961. When the terrible incident happened in Dallas on November 22, 1963 and the reports circulated that one agent had responded by trying to shield the occupants riding in the presidential limousine, I knew immediately that that agent was Clint Hill. The reader should know that, in my opinion, this book is the memoir of one of the most diligent, responsible, trustworthy, dutiful agents ever to serve on the White House Detail. This book is a must read for anyone endeavoring to obtain an insightful agent's view and understanding of the tragic occurrences of November 22, 1963.

Abraham W. Bolden, Sr.

Janice:

What interested me more than anything else was Clint's vivid descriptions of his duties on the many trips that Mrs. Kennedy took. I think that his book really brought out the good and the bad about being on the detail. He showed how an agent's life is not really his own once that the agent is assigned to the White House Detail. The sacrifices that an agent has to make in one's own private life in order to carry out the awesome duties of protecting the President and First Lady are skillfully related to the reading public in Agent Hill's book. Being on the detail may appear to be a glorified assignment by a person looking at the actions of the agents from a distance. Agent Hill pierces that illusion and shows, through his writing, why an agent must always be ready for the unexpected. I watched him up close and at a distance and knew that if ever the moment came to perform his duties, Agent Hill would be ready and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice..........AND HE DIDN'T LET HIS COUNTRY DOWN. He did everything that was expected of an agent under the circumstances of November 22, 1963. Even though my own career was unceremoniously curtailed as an agent of the U.S. Secret Service, I am thankful to have crossed paths with a person of the caliber of Agent Hill. Buy his book and see what it takes to be an agent and know that it is the memoir of one of the best.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Robert Morrow