Steve Landesberg from "Barney Miller" dies

[David Andrews]

From "HARVEY AND LEE: THE COMRADE AND THE GOOD OLE BOY"

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/JH/.HOLD-OLD-JH/.JH-0007.html

"A number of different FBI documents indicate that Stephen Harris Landesberg,

Earl Perry, and Oswald were involved in demonstrations in New York City in

late 1961 and early 1962. (For starters, see ARRB Rec. Nos. 124-10058-10262

and 124-10164-10225 and 180-10015-10389.) Oswald took photographs of

Landesberg and Perry. When Landesberg reported Oswald's participation in

the demonstrations to the FBI hours after the assassination, he was accused

of providing false information to the government and COMMITTED TO BELLEVUE

PSYCHIATRIC CENTER IN NEW YORK!

"About three years ago, John Armstrong attempted to acquire the U.S. District

Court records of the case, U.S. vs. Steven Harris Landesberg. Armstrong met

with Rosemary Fugnetti who was then (and remains today) archivist at the

Federal District Court House at 4 Foley Square in New York City. In a

series of actions prompted by Armstrong's request, Fugnetti discovered that

all records of the case, including paper documents and two backup microfilm

copies, had disappeared. Armstrong added: 'When the FBI tried to obtain

Earl Perry's records from the Marines, they were told they would first have

to get clearance from the Pentagon!'

"Remarkably, these descriptions, and others given below, of Lee Oswald active

in the U.S. when he was supposed to be in Russia have been on the public

record for two decades, but few researchers knew about them. The record

they are part of is both vast and tiny."

Steve Landesberg death article:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2010/12/steve-landesberg-1945-2010.html

Edited December 22, 2010 by David Andrews

[Tony Frank]

The claim that this is the same Steve Landesberg that was an actor is incorrect.

The Steve Landesberg who was sent for a psychiatric exam was born on September 24, 1940, while the actor from Barney Miller was born on November 23, 1945 (November 23, 1936, according to Wikipedia).

The Steve Landesberg in the FBI files was thrown out of the Marines because of his psychosis.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11791&relPageId=51

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11791&relPageId=50

[EDIT: I originally wrote that the claim about it being the actor from Barney Miller is "just more lunacy from Armstrong," but then I saw that Armstrong did not make the claim. However, I still think Armstrong is nuts.]

Edited December 22, 2010 by Tony Frank

[David Andrews]

This is just more lunacy from Armstrong.

The Steve Landesberg who was sent for a psychiatric exam was born on September 24, 1940, while the actor from Barney Miller was born on November 23, 1945 (November 23, 1936, according to Wikipedia).

The Steve Landesberg in the FBI files was thrown out of the Marines because of his psychosis.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11791&relPageId=51

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11791&relPageId=50

That's odd, if true - I remember reading this in an old Village Voice article (perhaps by A. J. Weberman?) that ought to have predated Armstrong's research...

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

This is just more lunacy from Armstrong.

Tony:

You may wish to amend your statement, because your bias is showing. Having combed old Village Voices and NYTs from the period, I can assure you that the demonstrations cited by Armstrong did take place and that nothing cited by John Armstrong is materially incorrect. Landesberg may have been mistaken or delusional about including Oswald in his post-assassination reports to the FBI, but he most assuredly did create provocations, because they were reported in the media.

Here, for example, is a re-run of a Village Voice piece that first ran in their December 12, 1963 edition:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/06/clip_job_oswald.php

The header to this thread - written by David Andrews, not John Armstrong - suggests that the two men named Steve Landesberg were one and the same. To the best of my knowledge, Armstrong hasn't alleged that.

You owe Armstrong an apology.

[Greg Parker]

From "HARVEY AND LEE: THE COMRADE AND THE GOOD OLE BOY," by John Armstrong

http://www.acorn.net...H/.JH-0007.html

"A number of different FBI documents indicate that Stephen Harris Landesberg,

Earl Perry, and Oswald were involved in demonstrations in New York City in

late 1961 and early 1962. (For starters, see ARRB Rec. Nos. 124-10058-10262

and 124-10164-10225 and 180-10015-10389.) Oswald took photographs of

Landesberg and Perry. When Landesberg reported Oswald's participation in

the demonstrations to the FBI hours after the assassination, he was accused

of providing false information to the government and COMMITTED TO BELLEVUE

PSYCHIATRIC CENTER IN NEW YORK!

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GIVE FALSE INFORMATION TO THE FBI IS THAT YOU MAY BE CHARGED, WHICH IN TURN, MAY LAND YOU IN COURT WHERE, AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING JUDGE, YOU MAY BE COMMITTED TO SEE IF YOU ARE MENTALLY COMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL!

A clue: Landesburg gave what was believed to be false information using a false name about an alleged third party which turned out to be himself under yet another false name. Despit the impression Armstrong gives, he was not arrested and charged at the time he gave the information. It was investigated first.

On the other hand, despite the negative results of that investigation, it may be possible that parts of his story were authentic (well, barely possible anyhow)... but even allowing for that ultra slim possibility, given all the provable lies he did tell, why would the FBI believe any of it, especially when records placed the participants elsewhere?

"About three years ago, John Armstrong attempted to acquire the U.S. District

Court records of the case, U.S. vs. Steven Harris Landesberg. Armstrong met

with Rosemary Fugnetti who was then (and remains today) archivist at the

Federal District Court House at 4 Foley Square in New York City. In a

series of actions prompted by Armstrong's request, Fugnetti discovered that

all records of the case, including paper documents and two backup microfilm

copies, had disappeared. Armstrong added: 'When the FBI tried to obtain

Earl Perry's records from the Marines, they were told they would first have

to get clearance from the Pentagon!'

David, where can I see the report stating the records could not be obtained without a clearance?

"Remarkably, these descriptions, and others given below, of Lee Oswald active

in the U.S. when he was supposed to be in Russia have been on the public

record for two decades, but few researchers knew about them. The record

they are part of is both vast and tiny."

"Vast and tiny"???

Steve Landesberg death article:

http://blogs.orlando...-1945-2010.html

Classic show and loved his character.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Greg Parker

[David Andrews]

I remember reading it printed in the Village Voice, c. 1979-1983, identifying the Steve Landesberg who died today, the actor. I don't recall any howls for retraction at the time.

I was surprised to see it "confirmed" in an article quoting Armstrong. If I'm wrong - I was misled, but not by memory.

I can't cite Armstrong's sources for his quoted research, sorry. I apologize for citing Armstrong, erroneously, as the author of the article.

Edited December 22, 2010 by David Andrews

[Michael Hogan]

The Steve Landesberg who was sent for a psychiatric exam was born on September 24, 1940, while the actor from Barney Miller was born on November 23, 1945 (November 23, 1936, according to Wikipedia).

Steve Landesberg and the question of age

From the LA Times

December 21, 2010

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/afterword/2010/12/steve-landesberg-and-the-question-of-age.html

[Jack White]

This is just more lunacy from Armstrong.

Tony:

You may wish to amend your statement, because your bias is showing. Having combed old Village Voices and NYTs from the period, I can assure you that the demonstrations cited by Armstrong did take place and that nothing cited by John Armstrong is materially incorrect. Landesberg may have been mistaken or delusional about including Oswald in his post-assassination reports to the FBI, but he most assuredly did create provocations, because they were reported in the media.

Here, for example, is a re-run of a Village Voice piece that first ran in their December 12, 1963 edition:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2009/06/clip_job_oswald.php

The header to this thread - written by David Andrews, not John Armstrong - suggests that the two men named Steve Landesberg were one and the same. To the best of my knowledge, Armstrong hasn't alleged that.

You owe Armstrong an apology.

Thanks, Robert. I believe that there is more to the Steve Landesberg story than John was willing to write. It

was my belief at the time that the actor and the man named in the incident were the same man. I had good

reasons to believe this at the time, but it was long ago that I studied it and the details are now fuzzy.

Jack

[Greg Parker]

The Steve Landesberg who was sent for a psychiatric exam was born on September 24, 1940, while the actor from Barney Miller was born on November 23, 1945 (November 23, 1936, according to Wikipedia).

Steve Landesberg and the question of age

From the LA Times

December 21, 2010

http://latimesblogs....ion-of-age.html

From the above article:

The Times was able to check his voter registration information. It showed his birth date as Nov. 23, 1936.

One of our librarians was able to confirm the birth date on Landesberg's driver's license as Nov. 23, 1936.

From P46 of CE 1396:

Mrs Landesberg said her son was born on September 24, 1940...

(and if anyone says this was a short, fat CIA substitute mother, I'm gonna run screaming to the nearest exit....)

Edited December 22, 2010 by Greg Parker

[Robert Howard]

The Steve Landesberg who was sent for a psychiatric exam was born on September 24, 1940, while the actor from Barney Miller was born on November 23, 1945 (November 23, 1936, according to Wikipedia).

Steve Landesberg and the question of age

From the LA Times

December 21, 2010

http://latimesblogs....ion-of-age.html

From the above article:

The Times was able to check his voter registration information. It showed his birth date as Nov. 23, 1936.

One of our librarians was able to confirm the birth date on Landesberg's driver's license as Nov. 23, 1936.

From P46 of CE 1396:

Mrs Landesberg said her son was born on September 24, 1940...

(and if anyone says this was a short, fat CIA substitute mother, I'm gonna run screaming to the nearest exit....)

Possibly after all these years what is needed is a different approach, suggestion.

Try researching a family member [known?] to be a true relative of

the Warren Commission Stephen Landesberg.

Example: Mrs. Edna Greenberger Landesberg [just a suggestion]

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/JFK Documents - Federal Bureau of Investigation/FBI JFK Assassination File (62-109060)/

FBI 62-109060 JFK HQ File, Section 84

pages 33, 43, S. H. Landes

pages 46, 47, Stephen Landes

pages 33, 42, 43, Stephen H. Landes

page 46, Mrs. Edna Landesberg

pages Mrs. Edna Greenberger Landesberg

page 44, George Landesberg

page 46, Mrs. George Landesberg

page 46, Stephen Landesberg

pages 42, 43; Stephen H Landesberg

pages 33, 43, 44; Stephen Harris Landesberg

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=62371

Commission Document 1396 - FBI Gemberling Report of 07 Aug 1964 re: Investigations into Allegations of Persons Other Than Oswald

http://www.maryferre...91&relPageId=38

Stephen Harris Landesberg, also known as "Frenchie," S. H. Landes, Stephen H. Landes, Stephen L'eandes, Stephen Yves L'eandes, Yves Leandes, James F Rizutto

L'eandes is described as follows:

Name: Yves Leandes, also known as "Frenchie,"

Sex: Male

Race: White

Age: 23-25

Height: 5'10"

Weight: 165 pounds

Build: Muscular

Hair: Black

Eyes: Blue

Characteristics: Wears large handle-bar mustache, sometimes waxed, sometimes wears rimless glasses.

Home Address: Wiggins, Mississippi

Edna Landesberg Birth: 15 Nov 1910 State Where Number was Issued: New York Death: 21 Aug 1993

http://www.familysea...name=Landesberg

Edna G Landesberg Born November 15, 1910 Died August 21, 1993. 33319 Fort Lauderdale, Broward County

http://www.faqs.org/...rch/landesberg/

I highlighted the above portion for a reason, there are other Landesberg's listed in Broward County.

Generally speaking, Landesberg's seem to hail from New York, Florida and Pennsylvania.

FWIW

Edited December 22, 2010 by Robert Howard

[Chris Courtwright]

Greg -

I guess the point I would make -- setting aside the controversy about whether the guy sent to Bellevue was the actor of 1970s fame -- is that things like this were put down VERY quickly after the assassination. (Someone who recalled seeing a pro-Castro Oswald in the USA in 1961 when the real deal was supposedly in Minsk.) In another very similar case, journalist Ray Carnay reported to the FBI the weekend of the assassination that he had met with a very provocative Castro-sympathizing Oswald at an airport hangar in Dallas in 1961. The FBI grilled and badgered Carnay repeatedly (after digging up some old arrest records that would have ended his career and holding them over his head like the Sword of Damocles) in an effort to get him to change his story. Which to his credit, he never quite did. Sort of a similar circumstance, dontcha think? These kind of things must have seemed very inconvenient.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GIVE FALSE INFORMATION TO THE FBI IS THAT YOU MAY BE CHARGED, WHICH IN TURN, MAY LAND YOU IN COURT WHERE, AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING JUDGE, YOU MAY BE COMMITTED TO SEE IF YOU ARE MENTALLY COMPETENT TO STAND TRIAL!

A clue: Landesburg gave what was believed to be false information using a false name about an alleged third party which turned out to be himself under yet another false name. Despit the impression Armstrong gives, he was not arrested and charged at the time he gave the information. It was investigated first.

On the other hand, despite the negative results of that investigation, it may be possible that parts of his story were authentic (well, barely possible anyhow)... but even allowing for that ultra slim possibility, given all the provable lies he did tell, why would the FBI believe any of it, especially when records placed the participants elsewhere?

Edited December 22, 2010 by Chris Courtwright

[Tony Frank]

So, the death of Steve Landesberg from "Barney Miller" has no relevance whatsoever, and the Steve Landesberg who got kicked out of the military and who claimed to have protested with Oswald is only an issue now because of the death of the actor with the same name.

[Greg Parker]

So, the death of Steve Landesberg from "Barney Miller" has no relevance whatsoever, and the Steve Landesberg who got kicked out of the military and who claimed to have protested with Oswald is only an issue now because of the death of the actor with the same name.

Tony,

based on what RCD said, I did some further digging and did find a document saying Landesberg had attended a meeting. There was another document saying he had appeared on a radio show about the situation in the South. Can't give the links right now as I forgot to bookmark them and have since cleared the history, But they are in MFF for anyone who wants to dig them out.

On reflection, I'm not entirely willing to dismiss the notion they may be the same person. However, this also may be the guy in the files. Same name, a NY native and around the right age:

“It’s amazing, when you think you know so much, how little you really know when you’re around people who know so much more,” said Steve Landesberg, who’s retired."

http://www.prohoops.net/articles.html

[Greg Parker]

Greg -

I guess the point I would make -- setting aside the controversy about whether the guy sent to Bellevue was the actor of 1970s fame -- is that things like this were put down VERY quickly after the assassination. (Someone who recalled seeing a pro-Castro Oswald in the USA in 1961 when the real deal was supposedly in Minsk.) In another very similar case, journalist Ray Carnay reported to the FBI the weekend of the assassination that he had met with a very provocative Castro-sympathizing Oswald at an airport hangar in Dallas in 1961. The FBI grilled and badgered Carnay repeatedly (after digging up some old arrest records that would have ended his career and holding them over his head like the Sword of Damocles) in an effort to get him to change his story. Which to his credit, he never quite did. Sort of a similar circumstance, dontcha think? These kind of things must have seemed very inconvenient.

Thanks Chris,

Carney "believed" it was Oswald. He also admitted he normally kept notes of such interviews/meetings but didn't on the 3 occasions he met this fellow. First I've heard about the arrest records being held over him, but the FBI wanting to make this, and other pro-conspiracy stories disappear doesn't mean any particular one of them is based in reality. The FBI didn't pick and choose; they wanted all such stories to go away regardless of potential merit. If we can believe him, Carney would later claim he didn't know originally that the dates he gave coincided with Oswald being in the Soviet Union. It could equally be a sloppy attempt at linking Oswald to Castro. Or just a case of false memory.

[Jack White]

I think I have reason to believe that the person who BECAME Steve Landesburg the ACTOR had PREVIOUSLY been

Steven Landesburg the low level provocateur at an earlier time. Many young political activists from college

campuses were recruited for purposes of infiltration of "subversive" groups. Many of these grew out of their

political activism and became normal citizens. My thought is that the actor WHEN YOUNGER had been involved

in this way. I have forgotten all the evidence that led me to this conclusion...but I remember writing to the

actor, and I received a very strange reply from his AGENT, who could have given me a simple NO COMMENT

or NO, but instead gave me what seemed a form reply to such inquiries and threatened legal action against me,

when all I asked was whether he was the same person in the news clipping.

Jack

Edited December 23, 2010 by Jack White