Another strong indication for "Jean Hill out in the street"

[Karl Kinaski]

and hence for a massive Zappi-Film alteration.

Even the guys who were watching the killing from the third floor of the county criminal courts building (at Huston street Dealy Plaza) gave prove, that the Zappi film is crap. When some odd SS men brought Jean Hill up there, the following dialog occurred. (It was 15 Minutes after the shooting)

Quote from THE LAST DISSENTING WITNESS by Jean Hill:

Interrogator at third floor: Do you see a bullet hit the ground near you?

Hill: Not that I remember, why?

I: THAN WHAT MADE YOU JUMP BACK FROM THE PRESIDENTS CAR SO SUDDENLY? Hill: I just realized, that I shouldn't touch it, thats all.

I: WHAT WHERE YOU DOING OUT IN THE STREET IN THE FIRST PLACE?(SIC)

Hill: I was trying to get him to turn toward me.

close quote

KK

Edited January 9, 2011 by Karl Kinaski

[David Josephs]

Karl....

In the lower right hand corner of the wide version of Altgens we see the shadows of Brehm, Hill and Moorman

In Bronson, it is more than obvious they are on the grass and nowhere near being in the street close enough to touch the limo.

She may have stepped in the street at some point, but not when she was taking her photograph

The other photo shows how sloped the grass area is... from Bronson's view we would not be able to see their feet

There is simply no evidence that puts Hill or Moorman in the street any time after z180 or so...

The Bronson photo seems to be about z190 or so and they are obviously standing on the grass.

I think there are more than enough examples of how the Z film may have been altered than to try to place Mary and Jean in the street.

Like what is that black square doing over the back of JFK's head....

[Karl Kinaski]

HillJean Ex 5 - Sketch drawn by Jean L. Hill showing her location at the time of the assassination.

She made her cross ON the street---

KK

Edited January 9, 2011 by Karl Kinaski

[David Josephs]

HillJean Ex 5 - Sketch drawn by Jean L. Hill showing her location at the time of the assassination.

She made her cross ON the street---

KK

Thanks Karl... can you post the question this drawing is in response to please....

they were well down the street from where those "X"s are and the dotted line indicates to me she moved. Even if she was in the street for a second, they were both back on the grass at the time of the photograph and well before that time as evident in a number of images I posted.

DJ

[David Josephs]

Like what is that black square doing over the back of JFK's head....

David,

There is no black "square"

What you are looking at is his hair. The square appearance on the particular area of the image which you posted, has been caused by someone over "enhancing" the image, causing mega pixelation and distortion of the image content.

Whatever you say Duncan... this image was done to show the head travel and was not enhanced. And I thought it was Horne who saw the 35mm enlargements abd said that blcak swquare seemed to just hover over the frame as with a variety of other frames with black and white blobs covering the front and rear of his head....

Believe what you will... looks pretty obvious to me. I forget who posted the clear z337 frame saying "they missed this one" in the alteration..

Look at the original z317.. there's a blacked out area in the back of his head there as well.....

Makes more sense to me to "cover it up" then to try and align each and every one of the OTHER photos and films you mention in that other thread you started....

But for you, or me, to definitively say one way or another is not possible at this point.

DJ

[Karl Kinaski]

HillJean Ex 5 - Sketch drawn by Jean L. Hill showing her location at the time of the assassination.

She made her cross ON the street---

KK

Thanks Karl... can you post the question this drawing is in response to please....

they were well down the street from where those "X"s are and the dotted line indicates to me she moved. Even if she was in the street for a second, they were both back on the grass at the time of the photograph and well before that time as evident in a number of images I posted.

DJ

David

I think she made the drawing during her WC interview with Specter...

and no, according to Moorman the girls were not back on the grass at the time of the Mormann photographs. Moormann says she was out on the street for 4 to 5 seconds and than did a picture...both were on the street for several seconds, Hill jumped back from the Lincoln Limo suddenly...(see the first post)

KK

[David Josephs]

So Zapruder, Nix, Muchmoore, Altgens, Bronson, etc... were all altered????

Kind of hard to see how all of these were changed to obscure their being in the street, just to cover zapruder.

I have seen that interview with Jean/Moorman... Don't know what to tell you other than moving them to the grass in every instance

is a bit of a stretch... the mystery continues...

[Jack White]

So Zapruder, Nix, Muchmoore, Altgens, Bronson, etc... were all altered????

Kind of hard to see how all of these were changed to obscure their being in the street, just to cover zapruder.

I have seen that interview with Jean/Moorman... Don't know what to tell you other than moving them to the grass in every instance

is a bit of a stretch... the mystery continues...

Yes...all were altered to match each other as closely as possible.

Jack

[David Josephs]

Easy to see how your frame grab and my originals/enhancements are of the same quality...

You're way smarter than that Duncan... I've seen you work with photos... if you have taken that frame and determined it is simply the back of his head and is NOT blocked out in that and many other frames... as opposed to Doug Horne with the access and the purpose and the resources... so be it.

Covering up some things on the film to obscure reality versus the mass, synchronated changing of ALL the evidence

Obscure the holes and eliminate the blood spray versus the clandestine acquisition, changing and replacing of many, many pieces of evidence.

Definitely up the CIA's alley, yet why go thru all that troble when the first option accomplishes the same thing without all the legwork?

[Jack White]

My computer did this.

[Bill Miller]

David

I think she made the drawing during her WC interview with Specter...

and no, according to Moorman the girls were not back on the grass at the time of the Mormann photographs. Moormann says she was out on the street for 4 to 5 seconds and than did a picture...both were on the street for several seconds, Hill jumped back from the Lincoln Limo suddenly...(see the first post)

KK

I cannot believe that this nonsense has come up again, but not surprised by who is doing it, and certainly not surprised that the same old failed allegation doesn't mention the evidence against itself.

Jean Hill did step out into the street, but as she made it very clear to Len Osanic on Black Op Radio, Jean said that she had gotten back out of the street BEFORE the first shot was fired. Two things support Jean on this issue.

1) Jean said JFK looked to her side of the street when she was off the curb and had yelled at him. This last look to Jean's side of the street by JFK came around the break in the film between Z155 and Z160.

2) Altgens photo taken by Z255/56 does indeed show Jean to be back on the grass as she claimed she had done during the interview with Osanic. Altgens had his photos developed and sent out on the wire immediately following the shooting.

So it is not a question of whether Jean stepped out into the street, but rather when she stepped back out of it. The first shot sounded just prior Z202, thus according to Jean Hill, she was already back out of the street before Altgens took his photo.

As far as Moorman being in the street, unless she held her camera high above her head, Moorman could only have only been in the grass because her lens height is approximately 54" off the ground and the top of the cycles shield is approximately 58" tall. Morroman's Polaroid shows Mary's lens to be elevated above the tops of the cycles shields.

To summarize: When a caller to Black Op Radio asked Jean about when it was she had gotten into the street, Jean broke it down to both when she entered the street and when she had gotten back out of it. Altgens photo supports what Jean had said about being back up in the grass before the first shot had been fired.

Moorman's Polaroid was filmed about 30 minutes post assassination and while she still had possession of her photograph, thus alteration cannot possible be remotely considered at this point.

When Fetzer and White attempted to show that Moormasn was in the street, they inadvertently did the opposite for their recreation photo showed a shifting from over the curb (Moorman's Polaroid) to being down in the street where Feter and White thought she was. That shift can be easily followed by the spacing between the reference points on the colonnade and the corner of the pedestal.

Bill Miller

[David Josephs]

Thanks Bill... once again.

DJ

[Ken Rheberg]

David

I think she made the drawing during her WC interview with Specter...

and no, according to Moorman the girls were not back on the grass at the time of the Mormann photographs. Moormann says she was out on the street for 4 to 5 seconds and than did a picture...both were on the street for several seconds, Hill jumped back from the Lincoln Limo suddenly...(see the first post)

KK

I cannot believe that this nonsense has come up again, but not surprised by who is doing it, and certainly not surprised that the same old failed allegation doesn't mention the evidence against itself.

Jean Hill did step out into the street, but as she made it very clear to Len Osanic on Black Op Radio, Jean said that she had gotten back out of the street BEFORE the first shot was fired. Two things support Jean on this issue.

1) Jean said JFK looked to her side of the street when she was off the curb and had yelled at him. This last look to Jean's side of the street by JFK came around the break in the film between Z155 and Z160.

2) Altgens photo taken by Z255/56 does indeed show Jean to be back on the grass as she claimed she had done during the interview with Osanic. Altgens had his photos developed and sent out on the wire immediately following the shooting.

So it is not a question of whether Jean stepped out into the street, but rather when she stepped back out of it. The first shot sounded just prior Z202, thus according to Jean Hill, she was already back out of the street before Altgens took his photo.

As far as Moorman being in the street, unless she held her camera high above her head, Moorman could only have only been in the grass because her lens height is approximately 54" off the ground and the top of the cycles shield is approximately 58" tall. Morroman's Polaroid shows Mary's lens to be elevated above the tops of the cycles shields.

To summarize: When a caller to Black Op Radio asked Jean about when it was she had gotten into the street, Jean broke it down to both when she entered the street and when she had gotten back out of it. Altgens photo supports what Jean had said about being back up in the grass before the first shot had been fired.

Moorman's Polaroid was filmed about 30 minutes post assassination and while she still had possession of her photograph, thus alteration cannot possible be remotely considered at this point.

When Fetzer and White attempted to show that Moormasn was in the street, they inadvertently did the opposite for their recreation photo showed a shifting from over the curb (Moorman's Polaroid) to being down in the street where Feter and White thought she was. That shift can be easily followed by the spacing between the reference points on the colonnade and the corner of the pedestal.

Bill Miller

What Jean Hill told Len Osanic about where she was standing is important. But what's the earliest story we have from her on this? The closer to the assassination the fresher the memory. Well, I suppose the earliest story is what Karl is referring to: her Warren Commission testimony on March 24, 1964. Unfortunately for Karl, he's misidentified the "X" or "cross" as he calls it. Karl says:

"She made her cross ON the street---"

But the cross isn't identifying Jean's location. It's identifying the President's.

On the diagram we're talking about, Arlen Specter first tells Jean to "place him [the President] with the letter 'X'." He then tells her to "place yourself with the letter 'A'."

The letter "A" in the diagram, meaning Jean, is clearly in the grass, not in the street. The "X" in the street is President Kennedy, not Jean. So Jean had indicated only four months after the assassination that she was in the grass, not in the street, when the President's limo passed by at or about the time of the Moorman photo.

Ken

[Karl Kinaski]

David

I think she made the drawing during her WC interview with Specter...

and no, according to Moorman the girls were not back on the grass at the time of the Mormann photographs. Moormann says she was out on the street for 4 to 5 seconds and than did a picture...both were on the street for several seconds, Hill jumped back from the Lincoln Limo suddenly...(see the first post)

KK

I cannot believe that this nonsense has come up again, but not surprised by who is doing it, and certainly not surprised that the same old failed allegation doesn't mention the evidence against itself.

Jean Hill did step out into the street, but as she made it very clear to Len Osanic on Black Op Radio, Jean said that she had gotten back out of the street BEFORE the first shot was fired. Two things support Jean on this issue.

1) Jean said JFK looked to her side of the street when she was off the curb and had yelled at him. This last look to Jean's side of the street by JFK came around the break in the film between Z155 and Z160.

2) Altgens photo taken by Z255/56 does indeed show Jean to be back on the grass as she claimed she had done during the interview with Osanic. Altgens had his photos developed and sent out on the wire immediately following the shooting.

So it is not a question of whether Jean stepped out into the street, but rather when she stepped back out of it. The first shot sounded just prior Z202, thus according to Jean Hill, she was already back out of the street before Altgens took his photo.

As far as Moorman being in the street, unless she held her camera high above her head, Moorman could only have only been in the grass because her lens height is approximately 54" off the ground and the top of the cycles shield is approximately 58" tall. Morroman's Polaroid shows Mary's lens to be elevated above the tops of the cycles shields.

To summarize: When a caller to Black Op Radio asked Jean about when it was she had gotten into the street, Jean broke it down to both when she entered the street and when she had gotten back out of it. Altgens photo supports what Jean had said about being back up in the grass before the first shot had been fired.

Moorman's Polaroid was filmed about 30 minutes post assassination and while she still had possession of her photograph, thus alteration cannot possible be remotely considered at this point.

When Fetzer and White attempted to show that Moormasn was in the street, they inadvertently did the opposite for their recreation photo showed a shifting from over the curb (Moorman's Polaroid) to being down in the street where Feter and White thought she was. That shift can be easily followed by the spacing between the reference points on the colonnade and the corner of the pedestal.

Bill Miller

What Jean Hill told Len Osanic about where she was standing is important. But what's the earliest story we have from her on this? The closer to the assassination the fresher the memory. Well, I suppose the earliest story is what Karl is referring to: her Warren Commission testimony on March 24, 1964. Unfortunately for Karl, he's misidentified the "X" or "cross" as he calls it. Karl says:

"She made her cross ON the street---"

But the cross isn't identifying Jean's location. It's identifying the President's.

On the diagram we're talking about, Arlen Specter first tells Jean to "place him [the President] with the letter 'X'." He then tells her to "place yourself with the letter 'A'."

The letter "A" in the diagram, meaning Jean, is clearly in the grass, not in the street. The "X" in the street is President Kennedy, not Jean. So Jean had indicated only four months after the assassination that she was in the grass, not in the street, when the President's limo passed by at or about the time of the Moorman photo.

Ken

Really?...maybe the little dots are symbolizing her stepping into the street and suddenly jumping back from the car...as seen by this interrogator watching her and Moorman from the third floor of the county criminal courts building...(see first post)

KK

[Karl Kinaski]

Bill Miller said: Jean Hill did step out into the street, but as she made it very clear to Len Osanic on Black Op Radio, Jean said that she had gotten back out of the street BEFORE the first shot was fired.

Lets read her WC testimony carefully:

Mrs. HILL. The President's car. We were standing on the curb and I jumped to the edge of the street and yelled, "Hey, we want to take your picture," to him and he was looking down in the seat---he and Mrs. Kennedy and their heads were turned toward the middle of the car looking down at something in the seat, which later turned out to be the roses, and I was so afraid he was going to look the other way because there were a lot of people across the street and..."

To me that means that Hill was in the street AFTER JFK was hit in the throat...because just AFTER that hit " their heads (Jack and Jackies)were turned towards the middle of the car." Hill just didn't realize, that it was a hit. (Maybe because an umbrella weapon doesn't sound like a rifle?)

KK

PS The term "We jumped to the edge of the street" makes no sense...i would rather read "to the edge of the car"...Hill said in another account: "I almost were touching the front fender...(of the car)"

I guess thats one of those little "errors" which one can find in the WC testimony's...IMO these WC"hearings" where made up: to frame Oswald, confuse matters and conceal the truth.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Karl Kinaski