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The "FIRST SHOT" Impact


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The West survey notes are a literal "gold mine" of information when one has sufficient experience, knowledge, and other evidence/survey plats with which to transfer this information.

As previously stated, the TIME/LIFE Survey Plat has numerous errors in calculated distances as well as calculated angles.

Due primarily to an initial error regarding the height of the window ledge of the sixth floor window above the sidewalk directly below.

Thereafter, compounded by failure to determine true elevations of the street surface of Elm St. at various surveyed in points, (only vertical angles from a control point were utilized, which thereafter required the draftsman to compute these elevation differences).

And then compounded by the fact that angles were not computed to the "second", and some distances were not measured to the accurate one-tenth foot.

Nevertheless, the TIME/LIFE survey notes created on 11/26/63, provide sufficient accurate measurements for one to establish many critical items.

Control Point:

Though no true vertical/elevation control point was established during the TIME/LIFE work, fortunately, the initial Control Point that was established was of utmost importance.

This point was established on the south curb of Elm St. at a point where the direct line-of-sight from the Zapruder position was in direct alignment with the right-hand-side (as looking from Z's location) of the road sign, and thereafter where this line intersected the south curb of Elm St.

Thereby giving a direct alignment from the Z-position---to the right hand edge of the sign---to the street curb in the background.

This, fortunately was the "Control Station" which was established during the TIME/LIFE survey work, and it was the position from which virtually all other measurements as well as most angles were determined.

Now, one would, under normal considerations state that this "SCP/Survey Control Point/Station" would not necessarily be of that much usage, and they would be correct unless there existed some fixed/known object within Dealey Plaza and the other survey plats in which to make a "tie".

17.3 feet from the "control station" locate on the south curb of Elm St., to the center of the tree located in the background (of the Z-film).

With that, and the larger accuracy of survey plats such as the Warren Commission plat and the Drommer Plat, one can, within less than a 1-foot error, plot the control station onto these larger plats, and from there on, much of it is "downhill".

Next Issue: Shot#1 impact

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The West survey notes are a literal "gold mine" of information when one has sufficient experience, knowledge, and other evidence/survey plats with which to transfer this information.

As previously stated, the TIME/LIFE Survey Plat has numerous errors in calculated distances as well as calculated angles.

Due primarily to an initial error regarding the height of the window ledge of the sixth floor window above the sidewalk directly below.

Thereafter, compounded by failure to determine true elevations of the street surface of Elm St. at various surveyed in points, (only vertical angles from a control point were utilized, which thereafter required the draftsman to compute these elevation differences).

And then compounded by the fact that angles were not computed to the "second", and some distances were not measured to the accurate one-tenth foot.

Nevertheless, the TIME/LIFE survey notes created on 11/26/63, provide sufficient accurate measurements for one to establish many critical items.

Control Point:

Though no true vertical/elevation control point was established during the TIME/LIFE work, fortunately, the initial Control Point that was established was of utmost importance.

This point was established on the south curb of Elm St. at a point where the direct line-of-sight from the Zapruder position was in direct alignment with the right-hand-side (as looking from Z's location) of the road sign, and thereafter where this line intersected the south curb of Elm St.

Thereby giving a direct alignment from the Z-position---to the right hand edge of the sign---to the street curb in the background.

This, fortunately was the "Control Station" which was established during the TIME/LIFE survey work, and it was the position from which virtually all other measurements as well as most angles were determined.

Now, one would, under normal considerations state that this "SCP/Survey Control Point/Station" would not necessarily be of that much usage, and they would be correct unless there existed some fixed/known object within Dealey Plaza and the other survey plats in which to make a "tie".

17.3 feet from the "control station" locate on the south curb of Elm St., to the center of the tree located in the background (of the Z-film).

With that, and the larger accuracy of survey plats such as the Warren Commission plat and the Drommer Plat, one can, within less than a 1-foot error, plot the control station onto these larger plats, and from there on, much of it is "downhill".

Next Issue: Shot#1 impact

Assuming that those who are in possession of either the Drommer survey plat or those portions of the WC survey plat that was long ago posted, and that the "line" is now drawn from the Zapruder position--to the right edge of the sign--to the street curb in the background, it is also helpful to draw another similar line.

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z210.jpg

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z211.jpg

Zapruder position--to left front of Presidential Limo-----to tree in background.

With this alignment, one now can now determine a true and exact location (on the survey plat) for JFK's position at this frame of the film. (irrelevant as to the true frame number)

All that is required (additionally) is:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0447a.htm

CE872

And of course the ability to determine exactly how far it was from the front bumper of the limousine, back to a point at which JFK was seated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, with that measurement, one can take either of the two drawn lines,(on the survey plat) and thereafter determine at exactly what point JFK was located on Elm St. (on the survey plat) merely by measuring back along the center of Elm St., from the established alignment, the exact distance/measurement from the front bumper back to the point at which JFK was seated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No cheating on the measurement! For those who may have downloaded a copy of the drawing which I long ago posted which demonstrated the above ability to determine JFK's location.

A "double-check" of the measurement is in order for those who like to verify their own work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now! Back to the TIME/LIFE impact point for shot#1.

From the established point on the curb of Elm St. (along the Zapruder/right edge of sign/street curb in background alignment)

Which is depicted here: http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg

Measure from the curb to a point of intersection of an alignment down the center of Elm St., for a distance of 24.1 feet.

(Note): There was a "vertical angle" of 1-degree 18- minutes (minus), however this angle is so small as to be virtually irrelevant in computation of the exact horizontal distance from the curb to the TIME/LIFE determined impact location for the first shot fired.

P.S. It was also 88.9 feet from the curb location to the leading edge of the first yellow stripe.

And, a vertical angle of minum 3-degrees 25-minutes, which too is so small as to be virtually irrelevant should one decide to attempt to plot this location onto the Drommer plat as well.

Sufficiently confusing??????

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Tom,

Thank you,

Not confusing at all.

Let me assbackwards this and get us to the same spot.

Frame 264-33frames, which is(30ft@18.3frames per sec=11.3 mph)

Now, where have I used those figures before?

And, why frame 264, the answer is in the previous equation. Something to do with the difference of 4+65 and 4+95.

I'll supply the source for frame264 a little later.

The Math works and it's a beautiful sight.

chris

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The West survey notes are a literal "gold mine" of information when one has sufficient experience, knowledge, and other evidence/survey plats with which to transfer this information.

As previously stated, the TIME/LIFE Survey Plat has numerous errors in calculated distances as well as calculated angles.

Due primarily to an initial error regarding the height of the window ledge of the sixth floor window above the sidewalk directly below.

Thereafter, compounded by failure to determine true elevations of the street surface of Elm St. at various surveyed in points, (only vertical angles from a control point were utilized, which thereafter required the draftsman to compute these elevation differences).

And then compounded by the fact that angles were not computed to the "second", and some distances were not measured to the accurate one-tenth foot.

Nevertheless, the TIME/LIFE survey notes created on 11/26/63, provide sufficient accurate measurements for one to establish many critical items.

Control Point:

Though no true vertical/elevation control point was established during the TIME/LIFE work, fortunately, the initial Control Point that was established was of utmost importance.

This point was established on the south curb of Elm St. at a point where the direct line-of-sight from the Zapruder position was in direct alignment with the right-hand-side (as looking from Z's location) of the road sign, and thereafter where this line intersected the south curb of Elm St.

Thereby giving a direct alignment from the Z-position---to the right hand edge of the sign---to the street curb in the background.

This, fortunately was the "Control Station" which was established during the TIME/LIFE survey work, and it was the position from which virtually all other measurements as well as most angles were determined.

Now, one would, under normal considerations state that this "SCP/Survey Control Point/Station" would not necessarily be of that much usage, and they would be correct unless there existed some fixed/known object within Dealey Plaza and the other survey plats in which to make a "tie".

17.3 feet from the "control station" locate on the south curb of Elm St., to the center of the tree located in the background (of the Z-film).

With that, and the larger accuracy of survey plats such as the Warren Commission plat and the Drommer Plat, one can, within less than a 1-foot error, plot the control station onto these larger plats, and from there on, much of it is "downhill".

Next Issue: Shot#1 impact

Assuming that those who are in possession of either the Drommer survey plat or those portions of the WC survey plat that was long ago posted, and that the "line" is now drawn from the Zapruder position--to the right edge of the sign--to the street curb in the background, it is also helpful to draw another similar line.

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z210.jpg

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z211.jpg

Zapruder position--to left front of Presidential Limo-----to tree in background.

With this alignment, one now can now determine a true and exact location (on the survey plat) for JFK's position at this frame of the film. (irrelevant as to the true frame number)

All that is required (additionally) is:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0447a.htm

CE872

And of course the ability to determine exactly how far it was from the front bumper of the limousine, back to a point at which JFK was seated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, with that measurement, one can take either of the two drawn lines,(on the survey plat) and thereafter determine at exactly what point JFK was located on Elm St. (on the survey plat) merely by measuring back along the center of Elm St., from the established alignment, the exact distance/measurement from the front bumper back to the point at which JFK was seated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No cheating on the measurement! For those who may have downloaded a copy of the drawing which I long ago posted which demonstrated the above ability to determine JFK's location.

A "double-check" of the measurement is in order for those who like to verify their own work.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now! Back to the TIME/LIFE impact point for shot#1.

From the established point on the curb of Elm St. (along the Zapruder/right edge of sign/street curb in background alignment)

Which is depicted here: http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg

Measure from the curb to a point of intersection of an alignment down the center of Elm St., for a distance of 24.1 feet.

(Note): There was a "vertical angle" of 1-degree 18- minutes (minus), however this angle is so small as to be virtually irrelevant in computation of the exact horizontal distance from the curb to the TIME/LIFE determined impact location for the first shot fired.

P.S. It was also 88.9 feet from the curb location to the leading edge of the first yellow stripe.

And, a vertical angle of minum 3-degrees 25-minutes, which too is so small as to be virtually irrelevant should one decide to attempt to plot this location onto the Drommer plat as well.

Sufficiently confusing??????

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Warren Commission--to Drommer:

1.

One merely has to find "common ground" in order to accomplish many things.

Elm Tree----- http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z214.jpg

First Lamp Post----- http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0050a.htm

Common to Warren Commission survey plat as well as the Drommer plat.

2. Now, if one draws a line:

A. Down the center of Elm St* on the Drommer survey plat (which happens to accurately go through that point on the Drommer plat marked with center of street elevation 94.2)

B. And then draws a line across Elm St. on the Drommer plat, which runs from the center of the 6-inch Elm tree, directly across the street to the street lamp;

C. Then a "common ground" location can be established on the WC survey plat in direct correlation with the Drommer Plat.

*It is noted that although all "Stationing numbers of Mr. West (during the WC/FBI/& SS Survey works) runs down the exact center of Elm St., JFK's plotted/platted position is approximately 1.5 feet left of center in the direction of travel.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, as accurately as can be determined, the intersection of the centerline of street line, with the Elm tree to lamp post line, is at approximate survey stationing (from the WC survey plat) of 3+55.4.

Which of course can now be transferred directly to the Drommer Plat.

Recalling that the SS as well as the FBI both established First Shot Impact location of survey stationing 3+81.3, with street elevation of 423.07, one can, to some degree of accuracy, (plus utilization of the Drommer scale in this exact area), now plot the impact location of the first shot fired as determined by the SS & FBI during their seperate and independent assassination re-enactments.

In addition,the Elm tree and south curb of Elm St. also provide, on the Drommer plat, the "starting point" from which to determine the impact location for the first shot fired as determined during the TIME/LIFE survey work of 11/26/63.

If accurately plotted onto the Drommer survey plat, this demonstrates the approximate* difference between the TIME/LIFE survey work and the SS/FBI survey work.

In event that anyone is actually following along, posting of this approximate* distance would be beneficial as there has never been anyone else with whom this data could be compared.

*It is "approximate" due to the slight deficiencies in measurement accuracies of the TIME/LIFE works; coupled with mere transfer of data from one survey plat to another, when dealing with scales of 1-inch = 10 feet.

NOTE: There exists other similar "common ground" aspects of the WC/Drommer survey plats in which one can accomplish similar correlations as well as utilize the information as a cross-check of other data.

P.S.

Would post the drawings to demonstrate, but am working from a library computer and do not have the ability to provide attachments any longer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The West survey notes are a literal "gold mine" of information when one has sufficient experience, knowledge, and other evidence/survey plats with which to transfer this information.

As previously stated, the TIME/LIFE Survey Plat has numerous errors in calculated distances as well as calculated angles.

Due primarily to an initial error regarding the height of the window ledge of the sixth floor window above the sidewalk directly below.

Thereafter, compounded by failure to determine true elevations of the street surface of Elm St. at various surveyed in points, (only vertical angles from a control point were utilized, which thereafter required the draftsman to compute these elevation differences).

And then compounded by the fact that angles were not computed to the "second", and some distances were not measured to the accurate one-tenth foot.

Nevertheless, the TIME/LIFE survey notes created on 11/26/63, provide sufficient accurate measurements for one to establish many critical items.

Control Point:

Though no true vertical/elevation control point was established during the TIME/LIFE work, fortunately, the initial Control Point that was established was of utmost importance.

This point was established on the south curb of Elm St. at a point where the direct line-of-sight from the Zapruder position was in direct alignment with the right-hand-side (as looking from Z's location) of the road sign, and thereafter where this line intersected the south curb of Elm St.

Thereby giving a direct alignment from the Z-position---to the right hand edge of the sign---to the street curb in the background.

This, fortunately was the "Control Station" which was established during the TIME/LIFE survey work, and it was the position from which virtually all other measurements as well as most angles were determined.

Now, one would, under normal considerations state that this "SCP/Survey Control Point/Station" would not necessarily be of that much usage, and they would be correct unless there existed some fixed/known object within Dealey Plaza and the other survey plats in which to make a "tie".

17.3 feet from the "control station" locate on the south curb of Elm St., to the center of the tree located in the background (of the Z-film).

With that, and the larger accuracy of survey plats such as the Warren Commission plat and the Drommer Plat, one can, within less than a 1-foot error, plot the control station onto these larger plats, and from there on, much of it is "downhill".

Next Issue: Shot#1 impact

Chris;

As you are no doubt aware by this time, I seldom attempt to go into great, lengthy, and complicated discussions.

The "point on the curb" as initially established during the TIME/LIFE work becomes an important factor in many additional survey works.

From the point-on-the-curb, in direct alignment with the Sixth floor window (except in the opposite direction) a distance of 100-feet was measured off and a nail was driven.

This point happens to be out in the grassy area straight across Elm St. from Zapruder's position was. (and, in all probability, this nail is still driven into the ground in this location).

This location became known as the "point-in-the-park", and it was utilized in the SS/FBI/&WC assassination surveys and re-enactments.

And, it appears to be in the Drommer survey plat as well.

Nevertheless, it was a "key" scp/survey control point for computation of angles and distances for many of the features which were surveyed in, to include distance and angles to Zapruder's position as well.

So, one bit of knowledge often opens doors to understanding and grasping other bits of knowledge.

Tom

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