Shame on the Kennedys

[Pamela Brown]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

As for DNA, all Worthington needs is for a Kennedy to agree to submit to a DNA test too. That could get you to 95% probability if a match... maybe 100%.

[William Kelly]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia....ack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

As for DNA, all Worthington needs is for a Kennedy to agree to submit to a DNA test too. That could get you to 95% probability if a match... maybe 100%.

Get Worthington and Caroline on Jerry Springer - Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! and let them go at it.

In the meantime, can this thread be brought back on topic - to the continued withholding and call for release of JFK presidential records - records that belong to the American public who paid for them and not the Kennedy family?

Thanks,

BK

[Jack White]

Hey...a DNA test would settle the matter. No point in discussing this till that happens. If positive, a new heir to Camelot.

If negative, another hoax revealed. Unlike LBJ/Steven Brown, both dead, there are living people who could clear this up

if they choose to. If they choose not to, we are left to wonder why. If I were Caroline, I would be EAGER to fend off any

hoaxer. Or if genuine, a half brother.

Too bad hoaxers Holt and Baker cannot rely on DNA evidence to "prove" their stories.

The Atlantic Article was very well written. I read every word, and found some of the story plausible. He has JFK's eyes.

Jack

[William Kelly]

Hey...a DNA test would settle the matter. No point in discussing this till that happens. If positive, a new heir to Camelot.

If negative, another hoax revealed. Unlike LBJ/Steven Brown, both dead, there are living people who could clear this up

if they choose to. If they choose not to, we are left to wonder why. If I were Caroline, I would be EAGER to fend off any

hoaxer. Or if genuine, a half brother.

Too bad hoaxers Holt and Baker cannot rely on DNA evidence to "prove" their stories.

The Atlantic Article was very well written. I read every word, and found some of the story plausible. He has JFK's eyes.

Jack

But whether he is or he isn't JFK's kid doesn't make a difference either way.

The continued with holding of JFK assassination records by the CIA, the DOD, the Kennedy family and others however, does make a difference,

and the release of those records now, or soon, rather than in 2017 or never, can fill in missing pieces to the puzzles and present an opportunity

to interview the remaining witnesses while they are still alive.

I thought that is the topic of the original article and the purpose of this thread.

Can't JFK's sex life be discussed as thoroughly as you want in any of the threads that Robert Morrow has going?

BK

[Pamela Brown]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

As for DNA, all Worthington needs is for a Kennedy to agree to submit to a DNA test too. That could get you to 95% probability if a match... maybe 100%.

That seems to be the problem. When he agreed to do the Vanity Fair article, getting JFK/Kennedy dna was supposed to be part of the deal. Then it wasn't and he has been stonewalled by them. This issue imo speaks to the ongoing attempts to control the public perception of themselves, and especially JFK as a good family man. I agree, their integrity would only be increased by a relentless pursuit of truth at any cost.

[William Kelly]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia....ack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

As for DNA, all Worthington needs is for a Kennedy to agree to submit to a DNA test too. That could get you to 95% probability if a match... maybe 100%.

That seems to be the problem. When he agreed to do the Vanity Fair article, getting JFK/Kennedy dna was supposed to be part of the deal. Then it wasn't and he has been stonewalled by them. This issue imo speaks to the ongoing attempts to control the public perception of themselves, and especially JFK as a good family man. I agree, their integrity would only be increased by a relentless pursuit of truth at any cost.

So we can't depend on the Kennedys to seek the truth. So what? We can't depend on the CIA for that either.

And the bottom line is that it doesn't matter a diddly crap whether Worthington is or isn't JFK's kid, except to him and the Kennedys.

It doesn't affect the JFK assassination or the pursuit of the records that will tell us the truth about that.

The whole Worthington issue is bogus, and isn't worth pursuing, unless you run a celebrity tabloid for those who like sex scandals.

The real shame is that nobody wants to force the issue of releasing all the records.

And it's back to Jerry Springer, Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

[William Kelly]

Nice post by Jim.

Having said that, Jack Worthington does know who his daddy is: John F. Kennedy!

1)http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/jack200804

2) http://en.wikipedia....ack_Worthington

Jack Worthington was born 11/22/61; so that means that JFK impregnated his mom (Mary Evelyn Bibb) perhaps in February, 1961, when she was about 20 years old.

Worthington is the SPITTING IMAGE of John Kennedy.

"According to family and friends, Mary Evelyn Bibb, a regular beauty contestant as a young woman, had modeled for the Johnson family at several of the social functions at the LBJ Ranch. She also resembled Jackie Kennedy. Mary Evelyn Bibb owned a framed personal note given to her by Lyndon Johnson which states, "I had a nice talk with your daddy. Your friend, Lyndon." This document is now in the possession of Jack Worthington, along with other White House documents sent by Lyndon Johnson to her father, William Bibb. The Bibb family had a multi-decade involvement in business and politics in Maverick County, Texas, on the Texas-Mexico border, including liquor distribution and sale of farm machinery. The Frontier State Bank in Eagle Pass, Texas was owned by the Bibbs with Carlos Marcello through his banking associate Herman Beebe. Mary Evelyn Bibb's father, William Bibb, was a personal friend and business partner with former Mexican President Miguel Aleman Valdez. Aleman was also a personal friend of John Kennedy and Joseph Kennedy Sr, having hosted John and Jackie on their Acapulco honeymoon, and later visiting JFK at the White House. Miguel Aleman Valdez also partnered with Meyer Lansky in the liquor distribution business in Mexico. Meyer Lansky and Joseph Kennedy, both power players in the North American liquor distribution business, eventually became known enemies."

Worthington looks more like JFK than either Caroline or JFK Jr, imo. It is unfortunate the door was slammed in his face in terms of getting some of JFK's dna to test. Ironically, he might have been able to test his (supposed) father's dna against his own to see if there is a match or not. Also, his birthdate is just eery.

As for DNA, all Worthington needs is for a Kennedy to agree to submit to a DNA test too. That could get you to 95% probability if a match... maybe 100%.

That seems to be the problem. When he agreed to do the Vanity Fair article, getting JFK/Kennedy dna was supposed to be part of the deal. Then it wasn't and he has been stonewalled by them. This issue imo speaks to the ongoing attempts to control the public perception of themselves, and especially JFK as a good family man. I agree, their integrity would only be increased by a relentless pursuit of truth at any cost.

So we can't depend on the Kennedys to seek the truth. So what? We can't depend on the CIA for that either.

And the bottom line is that it doesn't matter a diddly crap whether Worthington is or isn't JFK's kid, except to him and the Kennedys.

It doesn't affect the JFK assassination or the pursuit of the records that will tell us the truth about that.

The whole Worthington issue is bogus, and isn't worth pursuing, unless you run a celebrity tabloid for those who like sex scandals.

The real shame is that nobody wants to force the issue of releasing all the records.

And it's back to Jerry Springer, Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

For those unfamiliar with the best of American television, the Jerry Springer show is aired daily in the afternoons, primarily for

bored housewives and horney young men and consists primarily of a live, routy audience who enjoy Springer introducing a guy,

his wife and his girlfriend who he got pregnant, and the results of the DNA tests Springer arranged to have done. Springer then

introduces the two women and they have a cat fight while the audience cheers Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

If you don't believe me you can watch the show here:

http://www.jerryspringertv.com/

Or just tune in to this thread or any of the threads started by Robert Morrow and those who get a thrill from such things.

[Len Colby]

Colby:

That is really good, sourcing a Spartacus page that also considers Chauncey Holt.

Then you go to a MFF page that also gives no sources. I mean Rex Bradford may have written it.

You’re soooo right Jimmy, Rex Bradford doesn’t know what he’s talking about, nor does anyone else at the MFF nor John Simkin. The latter is obviously an ignoramus otherwise he wouldn’t have included a quote from Holt on the page. I actually agree with you about Holt I think he pretty obviously is a self-aggrandizing crackpot, remember when you told Bill he shouldn’t agree with me because “I would not want to linked with Colby on this board”? How do you feel now that my position and yours are the same? Worse still McAdams has said as much and I assume Posner, Rahn and the Bug think so as well! (I’m sure you’ll protest that guilt by association is a one way street) .

Funny that you failed to mention Halpern, Russo, Corn and Thomas, after all what the hell do they know? I mean the latter only wrote books about RFK and the CIA (both of which discussed Mongoose) and the former was only part of the events in question. Peter Kornbluh author/editor of various books and head of the National Security Archives Cuba Documentation Project and Dr. Larry Haapanen a college professor and former senior editor of the Kennedy Assassination Chronicles are probably disinfo. Yes anyone whose view varies with your veneration of the Kennedys is obviously misinformed, has an agenda (i.e. is lying) or both. Only you and people who agree with you have their facts straight.

Lansdale was the day to day guy who supervised MONGOOSSE. GOt it.

Lansdale was CIA all the way.

The idea that Lansdale would tell the supervising committee that was titularly at the top everything the CIA was doing, this is so ludicrous as to make me wonder what you are doing here. I mean do I have to go ahead and list all the things done in the Caribbean against Castro that were rogue operations?

IF you have your hands on the day to day levers, and the others are doing their other jobs--like being AG--you are one up on them. Period. End of story.

Use of strawmen doesn’t become you, bumping off Castro was not a minor detail and Lansdale was not the only person who could have told them. Everybody but you says the Kennedy brothers put a lot of pressure on the CIA to “get rid of Castro”, RFK was directly involved in running Mongoose and most affirm they knew about the plots or at the minimum that it is an open question. Can you cite any one besides Schlesinger who says they did not know?

As per Worthington, yeah everyone in the family denies it, but you still put trust in this hoax.

???? Was that directed at me? If so you are demostrating your habitual confusion.

I’ve noticed since I saw your description of the ‘Raleigh call’ that you claims can’t be taken at face value. Earlier you wrote “In fact, the unredacted CIA IG report says the opposite, that the plots were deliberately kept from the Kennedys and when they told them they were then halted, they then resumed them again behind their backs.” I read much of a “sanitized” version report and did a text search for the terms ‘kennedy’ and “attorney’. I posted all the relevant quotes below and unless the fabled “unredacted” is quite different your description was not accurate. There was nothing about them disapproving of or halting the plots and though parts indicate RFK did not know about the plots other parts made it sound like plausible denial. For example one part discussed “two high-level, interagency meetings at which assassination of Castro was raised.” One was in June 1964 but the first “was at the Department of State on 10 August 1962…

...The Special Group (Augmented) met at the Department of State, either in Secretary Rusk's office or in his conference room. The following are recorded as being present:

State Dean Rusk, Alexis Johnson, Edward Martin, Richard Goodwin, Robert Hurwitch

White House Maxwell Taylor, McGeorge Bundy (Bill Harvey's notes record that Robert Kennedy was absent and that Bundy had his proxy.)

Defense Robert McNamara, Roswell Gilpatric, Lyman Lemnitzer, Edward Lansdale

CIA John McCone, William Harvey

USIA Edward Murrow, Donald Wilson

Secretary Thomas Parrott

It is unreasonable to suggest that so many Kennedy men were involved in the discussion but that the brothers were not told they agreed to assassinate Castro. Murrow was the famed former CBS anchor, Goodwin had worked with the President since 1958, Martin was part Ted Kennedy’s campaign staff almost all of the men had been appointed to their posts by the President. And fitting with comments the Kennedys sought plausible denial:

Tom Parrott's minutes of the meeting make no mention of the subject of assassination. Both McCone and Harvey recall that McNamara raised the subject. Harvey's notes taken at the meeting show that it was also mentioned by Murrow, but the nature of the comments was not recorded.

Following the 10 August meeting…Lansdale addressed a memorandum on 13 August to William Harvey (CIA), Robert Hurwitch (State), General Harris (Defense), and Don Wilson (USIA). The memorandum assigned responsibility for drafting papers on various subjects related to the Cuban operation. Harvey's assignment included: "Intelligence, Political (splitting the regime, [portion excised from the CIA file copy]).

On 14 August, Harvey submitted a memorandum to the DD/P (Helms) reporting the Lansdale communication and what Harvey had done about it. Harvey's memorandum to the DD/P states that the excised portion had consisted of the phrase: "

including elimination of leaders

".

Another part of the report noted that, “The Attorney General obviously was told of CIA's operational involvement with gangster elements, because he requested a briefing on the details” and continued:

…On 7 May 1962 Sheffield Edwards and Lawrence Houston met with Attorney General Robert Kennedy and, as Edwards puts it, "briefed him all the way." Houston says that after the briefing Kennedy "thought about the problem quite seriously." The Attorney General said that he could see the problem and that he could see the problem and that he could not proceed against those involved in the wiretapping case. He spoke quite firmly, saying in effect, "I trust that if you ever try to do business with organized crime again--with gangsters--you will let the Attorney General know before you do it."

In other words Kennedy did NOT object to killing Castro or even to using the Mob to do so but wanted to be told ahead of time. The report indicated that Kennedy knew the Mafia was being used to kill the Cuban:

Edwards says that among the points covered was that of Roselli's motivation. The Attorney General had thought that Roselli was doing the job (the attempt at assassination) for money. Edwards corrected that impression; he was not.

If him knowing of Rosseli’s involvement and disusing his “motivation” didn’t make it obvious enough the reported stated that:

…the Attorney General…asked for a memorandum record of the meeting…It does not state the purpose of the operation on which Kennedy was briefed, but it does make it clear that the operation was against Castro and its true purpose may be inferred from the memorandum.

A memo about a meeting during which the Mob’s involvement in trying to assassinate Castro was discussed that did not directly “state the purpose of the operation” this is reminiscent of the Lansdale memo and the minutes of the Aug. ’62 meeting. And it fits perfectly the surmisal by people who studied the question that the Kennedys strove for plausible denial. Evan Thomas told PBS:

My own conclusion is that Bobby never quite came out and said, you must kill this guy. You will never find good evidence. They didn't write it down. Joe Kennedy once said to Bobby, "Never write it down." Old Irish rule in Boston.

Sam Halpern, one of the CIA operations officers who ran Mongoose told them:

The orders I got... were get rid of Castro, quote-unquote. And I kept asking 'em, what do you mean by "Get rid of"? Can you be a little bit more specific? What do you want to happen, what do you wanna see as an end result? They said, we want him to disappear. Then it's left up to you as a senior officer, to decide what your limits are, if any.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/rfk/filmmore/pt.html

Peter Kornbluh said of the Lansdale memo:

This is the closest thing to a smoking gun that has been declassified. Only assassination would be taboo for open discussion at the Special Group, which routinely planned sabotage, violence and chaos to undermine Castro.

http://www.thenation.com/article/old-man-and-cia-kennedy-plot-kill-castro?page=full

I’m sure you point to the part of the report that discusses a Drew Pearson article about the plots to use the mob to kill the Cuban leader. The columnist wrote “Robert Kennedy may have approved an assassination plot” to which the IG replied “Not true. He was briefed on Gambling Syndicate-Phase One after it was over. He was not briefed on Phase Two”. But this only seems to apply to attempts to use the Mafia to kill Castro and since he knew they’d tried before, probably knew about the August ’62 meeting and continued to push for his removal it would be naïve to suggest he did not understand such efforts continued especially in light of the Lansdale memo which you conspicuously failed to address.

You also failed to address why people who approved projects that would inevitably lead to Cubans getting killed would not approve of ones to kill Castro and we are talking about men who approved the Diem coup. Do you really think they were so naive that they did not realize the general getting killed was a probable outcome?

“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

Excerpts of the CIA IG report. The page numbers are listed at the end of each except. Page #s that occurred midsentence are included.

Text version of report - http://www.parascope.com/mx/articles/castroreport.htm

PDF scan of report - http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/cia/80T01357A/104-10213-10101/html/104-10213-10101_0003a.htm

The Agency's General Counsel, Lawrence Houston, and Attorney General Robert Kennedy learned the full details of the operation in May 1962.

== Pg. 36

May 1962

The Attorney General obviously was told of CIA's operational involvement with gangster elements, because he requested a briefing on the details. On 7 May 1962 Sheffield Edwards and Lawrence Houston met with Attorney General Robert Kennedy and, as Edwards puts it, "briefed him all the way." Houston says that after the briefing Kennedy "thought about the problem quite seriously." The Attorney General said that he could see the problem and that he could see the problem and that he could not proceed against those involved in the wiretapping case. He spoke quite firmly, saying in effect, "I trust that if you ever try to do business with organized crime again--with gangsters--you will let the Attorney General know before you do it." Houston quotes Edwards as replying that this was a reasonable request. Edwards says that among the points covered was that of Roselli's motivation. The Attorney General had thought that Roselli was doing the job (the attempt at assassination) for money. Edwards corrected that impression; he was not.

Houston recalls that during the meeting with the Attorney General the latter asked for a memorandum record of the meeting. Edwards believes that the request was made later and by telephone. A memorandum was prepared and was signed by Edwards. Both Edwards and Houston recall having had a hand in writing it. A transmittal buckslip from Houston to Kennedy notes that the request was made on 11 May, which suggests that Edwards is correct in his belief that the request was made by telephone after the 7 May briefing of the Attorney General. The memorandum is dated 14 May 1962. It was typed in two copies only, with the original being sent to Attorney General Kennedy and the other copy being retained by the Director of Security. It was typed by Edwards' secretary, Sarah Hall.. It does not state the purpose of the operation on which Kennedy was briefed, but it does make it clear that the operation was against Castro and its true purpose may be inferred from the memorandum.

Edwards states that the briefing of the Attorney General and the forwarding of a memorandum of record was carried out without briefing the Director (John McCone), the DDCI (General Carter), or the DD/P (Richard Helms). He felt that, since they had not been privy to the operation when it was under way, they should be protected form involvement in it after the fact. As noted previously, Houston had briefed the DDCI on the fact that there was a matter involving the Department of Justice, but Houston had not given the DDCI the specifics. He feels it would have been normal for him to have briefed the DCI in view of the Attorney General's interest, but he also feels quite sure that he would have remembered doing it and he does not. He suggested that Edwards' deliberate avoidance of such briefings may have led him also to avoid making any briefings. He recalls no disagreements with Edwards on this point and concludes that he must have accepted Edwards' decision not to brief.

Houston and Edwards briefed Robert Kennedy on a CIA operation embracing gangster elements, which presumably was terminated following the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Kennedy stated his view, reportedly quite strongly, that the Attorney General should be told in advance of any future CIA intentions to work with or through U.S. gangster elements. From reports of the briefing, it is reasonable to assume that Kennedy believed he had such a commitment form Agency representatives.

In fact, however, at the time of the 7 May 1962 briefing of the Attorney General on "Gambling Syndicate - Phase One," Phase Two under William Harvey was already well under way. Harvey had been introduced to Roselli on 8 April and Varona or his men had received the lethal pills, the arms, and related support equipment in late April. The Attorney General was not told that the gambling syndicate operation had already been reactivated, nor, as far as we know, was he ever told that CIA had a continuing involvement with U.S. gangster elements.

When the Attorney General was briefed on 7 May, Edwards knew that Harvey had been introduced to Roselli. He must also have known that his subordinate, James O'Connell, was in Miami and roughly for what purpose (although Edwards does not now recall this). The gambling syndicate operation had been taken from him, and, in retrospect, he probably acted properly in briefing the Attorney General on only that aspect of the operation for which he had been responsible and of which he had direct, personal knowledge.

Harvey states that on 14 May he briefed Mr. Helms on the meeting with the Attorney General, as told to him by Edwards. Harvey, too, advised against briefing Mr. McCone and General Carter and states that Helms concurred in this. On that same date, 14 May, Edwards prepared a memorandum for the record stating that on that day Harvey had told him that any plans for future use of Roselli were dropped. Edwards' memorandum states that he "cautioned him (Harvey) that I (Edwards) felt that any future projects of this nature should have the tacit approval of the Director of Central Intelligence." Edwards informed us that he has no specific recollection of having told Harvey of Kennedy's warning that the Attorney General should be told in advance of any future CIA use of gangsters.

-65-

Although the Attorney General on 7 May 1962 was given a full and frank account of the Agency's relations with Maheu, Roselli, and Giancana in the Castro operation, including the wiretapping flap, it appears that the FBI was not given anything like the same detail. The Bureau quite properly was not told about the assassination operation, and it seems that it also was not told how the private life of Giancana came to involve the Agency in the Las Vegas wiretapping incident. Edwards states that to have briefed the Bureau on the assassination operation would have put it in an impossible bind, since both Roselli and Giancana were high on the Bureau's "list."

The briefing of Attorney General Kennedy was absolutely restricted to him, and we can only speculate that the confidence was observed.

(Comment: Senator Robert Kennedy's secretary, who was also his secretary when he was Attorney General, phoned the Director's office on 4 March 1967 and asked for a copy of the Edwards' memorandum on the 7 May 1962 meeting with Kennedy when he was Attorney General, at which time he was briefed on the Castro assassination operation. Kennedy knew of the Drew Pearson article of 7 March 1967 and wanted to check his recollection of what he had been told by Edwards and Houston on 7 May 1962. The Attorney General's copy of the memorandum for the record of that briefing is in the archives of the Attorney General's office. Mr. Helms subsequently had lunch with Senator Kennedy. He took copy of the memorandum with him and allowed Kennedy to read it. He did not leave a copy with Kennedy.)

If the information given the Bureau is as limited as the records and our information indicate, then the Bureau has not been informed, as the Attorney General was, that the Agency was first unwitting and then a reluctant accessory after the fact. It would be surprising, though, if the Bureau does not now know the whole story of the Las Vegas bugging incident. Whether the Bureau may now think that CIA was less than candid about the bugging incident (as distinguished from the sensitive assassination operation) is a question for speculation.

== Pgs. 62a – 67

On 16 August 1963 the DD/P (Helms) sent a memorandum to the DCI (McCone) forwarding a copy of the 14 May 1962 memorandum for the record sent to Attorney General Kennedy following the 7 May 1962 briefing of Kennedy on the gambling syndicate operation - phase one. The coincidence of dates strongly suggests that the Director's interest resulted from the Chicago newspaper story of 16 August. In his transmittal memorandum to the DCI, Mr. Helms wrote that:

"...I was vaguely aware of the existence of such a memorandum [the memorandum for the record of the 7 May 1962 briefing of Robert Kennedy] since I was informed that it had been written as a result of a briefing given by Colonel Edwards and Lawrence Houston to the Attorney General in May of last year. ..... I assume you are aware of the nature of the operation discussed in the attachment."

-69-

This is the earliest date on which we have evidence of Mr. McCone's being aware of any aspect of the scheme to assassinate Castro using members of the gambling syndicate.

== Pgs. 69 – 70

Drew Pearson claims to have a report that there was a high-level meeting at the Department of State at which plans for the assassination of Castro were discussed. We find record of two high-level, interagency meetings at which assassination of Castro was raised. The first (and probably the one to which Pearson refers) was at the Department of State on 10 August 1962. It was a meeting of the Special Group (Augmented). The second meeting we have identified was held on 30 June 1964. It was a meeting of the 303 Committee and probably was held in the White House Situation Room. The two meetings are described separately below.

10 August 1962

The Special Group (Augmented) met at the Department of State, either in Secretary Rusk's office or in his conference room. The following are recorded as being present:

State Dean Rusk, Alexis Johnson, Edward Martin, Richard Goodwin, Robert Hurwitch

White House Maxwell Taylor, McGeorge Bundy (Bill Harvey's notes record that Robert Kennedy was absent and that Bundy had his proxy.)

Defense Robert McNamara, Roswell Gilpatric, Lyman Lemnitzer, Edward Lansdale

-112-

CIA John McCone, William Harvey

USIA Edward Murrow, Donald Wilson

Secretary Thomas Parrott

Tom Parrott's minutes of the meeting make no mention of the subject of assassination. Both McCone and Harvey recall that McNamara raised the subject. Harvey's notes taken at the meeting show that it was also mentioned by Murrow, but the nature of the comments was not recorded. Mr. McCone states, in a memorandum of 14 April 1967, that he recalls meetings on 8 or 9 August in the JCS Operations Room in the Pentagon and on 10 August 1962 in Secretary Rusk's conference room. At one of these meetings (and McCone now recalls it as being at the JCS) the suggestion was made that top people in the Cuban regime, including Castro, be liquidated.

(Comment: As it will later be seen, Mr. McCone's recollection is probably faulty. It is quite clear that assassination came up for discussion at the 10 August meeting at State.)

Mr. McCone says that he took immediate exception to the discussion and promptly after the meeting called on Secretary McNamara personally to emphasize his position. According to McCone, McNamara "heartily agreed." McCone states in his memorandum that at no time did the suggestion receive serious consideration by the Special Group (Augmented) or by any individual responsible for policy. McCone adds that through the years the Cuban problem was discussed in terms such as "dispose of Castro," "remove Castro," and "knock off Castro," etc., but that these phrases were always construed to mean the overthrowing of the communist government in Cuba. Harvey recalls that, when McCone told him of the McCone-McNamara conversation, McCone said that if he, McCone, were to be involved in such a thing he would be excommunicated.

Following the 10 August meeting, and without reference to the reported exchange between McCone and McNamara, Lansdale addressed a memorandum on 13 August to William Harvey (CIA), Robert Hurwitch (State), General Harris (Defense), and Don Wilson (USIA). The memorandum assigned responsibility for drafting papers on various subjects related to the Cuban operation. Harvey's assignment included: "Intelligence, Political (splitting the regime, [portion excised from the CIA file copy]).

On 14 August, Harvey submitted a memorandum to the DD/P (Helms) reporting the Lansdale communication and what Harvey had done about it. Harvey's memorandum to the DD/P states that the excised portion had consisted of the phrase: "including elimination of leaders". Harvey wrote that he had phoned Lansdale's office and had spoken with Frank Hand in Lansdale's absence. Harvey said he had protested the use of the phrase and had proposed that steps be taken to have it excised from all copies. This was agreed to. Harvey deleted the phrase from his own copy and assumes that instructions were given to other recipients to do the same.

== Pgs. 112 - 5

Robert Kennedy may have approved an assassination plot.

(Not true. He was briefed on Gambling Syndicate-Phase One after it was over. He was not briefed on Phase Two.)

== Pg. 118

*It is quite possible that the fact of Robert Kennedy's having been briefed, and perhaps the substance of the briefing, is more widely known to government officials than this list would indicate. We know that Mr. McCone on 16 August 1963 asked for and received a copy of the memorandum record of the briefing. Others in Justice and the FBI besides Kennedy may know of the memorandum and of its contents.

-121-

c. From the standpoint of who-knew-what, the next most likely source of the original leak is John Roselli. He is, in fact, the only person with direct and continuous participation throughout both phases of the gambling syndicate operation. He introduced Maheu to Sam Giancana as the first step in getting the operation under way, and he was the one who made the final break with Varona when the operation was abandoned. He knows everything that went on with the gangsters, with Orta, and with Varona between those dates. He and Robert Maheu are the only non-CIA participants with immediate knowledge of the Robert Kennedy aspect. Shef Edwards had lunch with Roselli and Maheu in Los Angeles in the summer of 1962. Edwards says that Roselli knew Edwards' true name and his position in the Agency. Edwards said he took the occasion to express his personal appreciation to Roselli, and told Roselli that he, Edwards, had personally told Attorney General Kennedy of what Roselli had tried to do in the national interest. We know that Kennedy was merely briefed on the operation--and only on Phase One at that--but Roselli may have inferred that Kennedy had an active role in the operation.

== Pgs. 122-3

What do other components of Government know about this operation?

Former Attorney General Robert Kennedy was fully briefed by Houston and Edwards on 7 May 1962. A memorandum confirming the oral briefing was forwarded to Kennedy on 14 May 1962. The memorandum does not use the word "assassinate," but there is little room for misinterpretation of what was meant. Presumably the original of that memorandum is still in the files of the Justice Department. It should be noted that the briefing of Kennedy was restricted to Phase One of the operation, which had ended about a year earlier. Phase Two was already under way at the time of the briefing, but Kennedy was not told of it.

As far as we know, the FBI has not been told the sensitive operational details, but it would be naive to assume that they have not by now put two and two together and come out with the right answer.

== Pgs. 130-1

When Robert Kennedy was briefed on Phase One in May 1962, he strongly admonished Houston and Edwards to check with the Attorney General in advance of any future intended use of U.S. criminal elements. This was not done with respect to Phase Two, which was already well under way at the time Kennedy was briefed.

== Pg. 133

EDIT - Added Nation link

Edited January 30, 2011 by Len Colby