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Discussing The Mindset Of Conspiracy Theorists


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So-called "conspiracy theorists" are a dime a dozen. They are of no consequence whatsoever. They are as damaging to the discovery of the truth as are the

lone nutters with their penchant for idiotic thinking based in a deep need to cling to the illusion that they live in the best of all possible worlds. At least the

CT's have no such illusion. Unfortunately, they believe the opposite and equally inaccurate scenario is true.

However, sincere historians, scholars, and students of this case do not theorize irresponsibly.

LOL this from someone who reported the claim of an anonymous source as fact then refused to admit error when proven to be wrong. And yes I'm referring to your false claim that Zapruder worked at Nardis till 1959.

Edited by Len Colby
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So-called "conspiracy theorists" are a dime a dozen. They are of no consequence whatsoever. They are as damaging to the discovery of the truth as are the

lone nutters with their penchant for idiotic thinking based in a deep need to cling to the illusion that they live in the best of all possible worlds. At least the

CT's have no such illusion. Unfortunately, they believe the opposite and equally inaccurate scenario is true.

However, sincere historians, scholars, and students of this case do not theorize irresponsibly.

LOL this from someone who reported the claim of an anonymous source as fact then refused to admit error when proven to be wrong. And yes I'm referring

to your false claim that Zapruder worked at Nardis till 1959.

Len,

There is a difference between irresponsible speculation and an honest factual error or typo. At the time of the writing, it was my belief that the correct year

was 1959. As it turns out, the correct year was more likely 1954 because that's the year he co-founded Jennifer Junior's. Unfortunately, my original source

is deceased now, so I can't go back and get a clarification from him. As I said to you before, the article was written more than a decade ago and I had not re-

visited it in quite some time. That area of my research has concluded and I don't plan on reviving it.

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Mike Picardi,

If you ever get a film made of your screenplay with someone like David Von Pein as the protagonist, let us know so we can avoid it.

Yeah, we should never even SUGGEST that Lee H. Oswald had anything to do with JFK's murder, should we, Sterling? For that is a taboo subject around these parts.

In other words--to hell with the evidence and Oswald's OWN ACTIONS on the day of the assassination.

Dale Myers, another LNer that conspiracy mongers love to hate, said it very well last year.....

"For forty-six years we’ve been hearing about the big conspiracy that killed Kennedy and still we’ve seen not one shred of believable evidence that anyone other than Oswald was behind the deed. And despite [Oliver] Stone’s claim that those in the media and academia are too afraid to risk their careers or positions of power to expose the truth about the Kennedy murder, numerous television networks, reporters, lawyers, and private individuals have done just that only to find Oswald alone in the sniper’s nest window. Apparently, reality doesn’t set well with the Hollywood filmmaker. Denial is so much more comforting." -- Dale K. Myers; January 25, 2010

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/01/oliver-stone-says-us-is-still-in-denial.html

Yawn. Come on, David. Since when have concerned onlookers--JFK buffs, conspiracy or otherwise--been held responsible for the government's failures in 1) investigating the crime, 2) explaining the crime to the public in a credible fashion? I mean, how many crimes get solved by citizens looking into it, as opposed to law enforcement looking into it? Very, very few. Without the power to arrest, question, and subpoena, not much can be done beyond what has already been done.

Myer's complaint is like blaming the media for failing to find Jimmy Hoffa's body. Get real.

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Guest Robert Morrow

In reply to Mike Picardi: when the criminals like Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover are in government, and they control the reigns of power, you get criminal non-investigations and cover up. Ditto for criminals/murderers in CIA/military who organized the actual logistics of the crime. Think Gen. Edward Lansdale who was identified by Prouty and Krulak at Texas School Book Depository (walking in the direction of the parking lot after a hit job well done.)

And if you have the nation's and Texas' wealthiest and most powerful citizens - Texas oil barons Murchison, HL Hunt, and Rockefellers nationally - instigating the plot, you will have a compliant CIA/CFR controlled media assisting in the cover up, non-investigation.

Here is my latest take on the 1963 Coup d'Etat. I am constantly adding and taking away items in my opinions. http://lyndonjohnsonmurderedjfk.blogspot.com/

The LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK

Lyndon Johnson made a dirty deal with CIA Republicans to murder John Kennedy in the 1963 Coup d’Etat. (People like Clint Murchison Sr., H.L. Hunt, Nelson Rockefeller, David Rockefeller, top Nelson Rockefeller aide Henry Kissinger, George Herbert Walker Bush and Gen. Edward Lansdale all are excellent candidates for elite sponsorship.) Lyndon Johnson and Allen Dulles may very well have been co-CEOs of the JFK assassination; with the CIA in charge of the killing of JFK, and Lyndon Johnson and (his close friend and neighbor of 19 years in Washington, DC) FBI director J. Edgar Hoover in charge of the cover up.

Clint Murchison, Sr – more so than even H.L. Hunt – was a key player in the JFK assassination because of his close ties to the inner core of US intelligence (Allen Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller, John J. McCloy), close ties to Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, bankers Rockefellers; Murchison was even friends with key Kennedy-hater mafia godfather Carlos Marcellos of New Orleans. Not only that, Murchison, Sr. was a patient and partner of Dr. Alton Oschner, the former president of the American Cancer Society and who ran covert cancer research for the CIA. Oschner, likewise was a Kennedy-hater. John Simkin: “One of Ochsner's friends described him as being ‘like a fundamentalist preacher in the sense that the fight against communism was the only subject that he would talk about, or even allow you to talk about, in his presence.”

When JFK was slaughtered, Russia’s Khrushchev was literally crying, fearing nuclear war. Cuba’s Castro worried and feared an US invasion and gave an impressive speech the next day deconstructing the CIA’s deception provocation for war. Meanwhile at Clint Murchison’s home, their family maid May Newman describes the scene: “The mood in the Murchison family home was very joyous and happy. For a whole week after like champagne and caviar flowed, every day of the week. But I was the only one in that household at that time that felt any grief for his assassination."

The Warren Commission should have really been called the “Allen Dulles Commission” because he controlled it and made it the farce that it was. Dulles was probably an elite sponsor (i.e. murderer), as well as certainly Lyndon Johnson. The 3 hardcore cover up artists on the Warren Commission were the 3 Council on Foreign Relations members: Allen Dulles (president CFR 1946-50), John J. McCloy (then chairman of the CFR 1953-1970) and Gerald Ford (CFR member, later president). John J. McCloy was a Rockefeller man, former head of Chase Manhattan bank, and very deep US intelligence since the OSS days. John J. McCloy’s nickname was “Chairman of the American Establishment,” and he mixed at the highest levels of business, intelligence and he was close to the Kennedy-hating Texas business elite. Cover up artist Gerald Ford was secretly reporting to Hoover and the FBI what the Warren Commission was doing. In 1970, Newsweek called Gerald Ford the CIA’s “best friend in Congress.” The CFR especially 40 years ago, was heavily Rockefeller influenced and it top players were deep CIA.

The CIA has been called the military wing of the CFR; and actually that is not too far from the truth. The CFR was in its heyday from 1950-1990.

Here is an absolutely spectacular article why the National Security State murdered John Kennedy: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/marshall10.1.html John Kennedy was despised by and did not control his CIA nor his Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Lyndon Johnson’s reasons to murder were out of his deep desperation and fear of what would become of him after his imminent expulsion from the 1964 Democratic ticket and his fears of going to jail over the exploding Bobby Baker scandal. LIFE magazine, being fed extremely damaging info by Robert Kennedy, was set to run an expose on Lyndon Johnson’s corruption that would blow him out of the water once and for all (Dec. 6th issue, but due to be printed and mailed on 11/29/63: source James Wagenvoord who worked at LIFE then). Bobby Baker was the protégé of a wildly corrupt LBJ in the Senate; Lyndon Johnson was like both a dad and a big brother to Bobby Baker (who named two of his children after LBJ: Lynda and Lyndon). Both Lyndon Johnson and Bobby Baker were receiving tremendous amounts of under-the-table money while Johnson was running the Senate. The Kennedys and LIFE Magazine were literally days away from politically executing Lyndon Johnson with the rope of the unraveling Bobby Baker scandal. After vaporizing the despised Lyndon Johnson, John Kennedy was going to replace LBJ most likely with Terry Sanford of North Carolina or possibly his good friend George Smathers of Florida as VP on the 1964 Democratic ticket.

The Kennedys and Lyndon Johnson were having a sub rosa fight: Jack and Robert Kennedy brought knives to the battle and Lyndon Johnson brought guns and it was settled on 11/22/63 at 12:30 PM in Dallas.

Lately, I have been studying the role of McGeorge Bundy, the National Security Advisor for JFK and Henry Cabot Lodge, JFK’s insubordinate ambassador to Vietnam who Kennedy was planning to fire on Monday, 11/25/63. It is probable that both McGeorge Bundy and Henry Cabot Lodge were involved some way with the JFK assassination. McGeorge Bundy, astonishingly, was already drafting sharp escalations to JFK’s Vietnam policy NSAM 273 (which JFK would not have approved) on 11/21/63, the night before the 1963 Coup d’Etat! McGeorge Bundy was also assuring others very quickly on 11/22/63 that there was no conspiracy to kill JFK, at a time when it was impossible for him (or anyone) to be credibly saying that. Bundy later ran the Ford Foundation from 1966-1979.

JFK’s Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, who ran the Rockefeller Foundation from 1952-1961, and was also a hawk on Vietnam, is another one who merits close scrutiny in the Coup of 1963. Kennedy had appointed Rusk because it was unlikely that the Senate would confirm JFK’s first choice J. William Fulbright, who later became a prominent opponent of the Vietnam War. After the 1963 Coup d’Etat, Rusk lasted through all the blood and guts of Vietnam and all the way through Jan., 1969, as Johnson’s Secretary of State. Walt Rostow (CFR), another Vietnam hawk, replaced McGeorge Bundy (CFR) as National Security Advisor in 1966. The CFR and the Rockefellers, not John Kennedy, lusted for the Vietnam War.

The midlevel murderers (field operations) of JFK would include CIA guys like Richard Helms, James Angleton, David Morales, William King Harvey, E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, David Atlee Phillips and perhaps Cord Meyer. Deputy Harry Weatherford is a good candidate to have been on the Records Building as a sniper. Influential mobster Johnny Roselli was especially close friends with the CIA’s William King Harvey, a rabid Kennedy hater. The most likely mafia godfathers involved would be Carlos Marcello and Santos Trafficante, particularly in the Jack Ruby murder of Oswald and perhaps in the JFK Assassination as well and other murders in the post assassination cover up.

We now know Lyndon Johnson was far worse than he is presented in current biographies. Far beyond ballot stuffing, bribery, massive under-the-table kickbacks, and being a consummate and pathological xxxx, Lyndon Johnson was murdering a lot of people in Texas to cover up his eye popping corruption. A prime example is the murder of US agricultural official Henry Marshall in June, 1961, and who then Vice President Lyndon Johnson arranged to have murdered. In the 1980’s, Billie Sol Estes, a close and corrupt partner of LBJ, began confessing to the murders that he, Lyndon Johnson, Cliff Carter and LBJ’s personal hit man Malcolm Wallace committed. Lyndon Johnson, a manic depressive – and at times a barely functioning psychopath - murdered perhaps 10-20 people to avoid exposure before he got his knife wet with John Kennedy’s blood.

We now know that Lyndon Johnson and Sam Rayburn with Hoover’s dossier on JFK, used sexual blackmail threats on John Kennedy on the night of July 13th at the 1960 Democratic convention in Los Angeles to force Kennedy to put LBJ on the ticket. Johnson was not on JFK’s short list for VP; he was not on the long list. LBJ was not on the VP list – period.

John Kennedy told his close friend Hy Raskin: “You know we had never considered Lyndon, but I was left with no choice. He and Sam Rayburn made it damn clear to me that Lyndon had to be the candidate. Those bastards were trying to frame me. They threatened me with problems and I don’t need more problems. I’m going to have enough problems with Nixon.” Evelyn Lincoln, JFK’s secretary for 11+ years, also confirms that Lyndon Johnson used sexual blackmail combined with other threats to force JFK to put LBJ on the 1960 Democratic ticket.

My current thinking on US intelligence agent Lee Harvey Oswald is that he was indeed involved in the JFK assassination, but he was a patsy who shot NO ONE that day, neither John Kennedy nor Officer J.D. Tippit. Both murders were complete frame jobs. Oswald was a fake defector to Russia and his behavior in New Orleans 1963 was all about Oswald’s sheep dipping as he passed out pro-Castro flyers and pretended to be a “pro-Castro Marxist.” Meanwhile Oswald was working in concert in New Orleans with folks like David Ferrie and Guy Bannister whose politics were the equivalent of a 1960’s Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms. Oswald’s fake public persona as a “pro-Casto Marxist” meant that he was an ideal pick as a patsy and his likely knowledge of and/or participation in the JFK Assassination meant that he had to be murdered quickly. The folks who killed Oswald wanted a “dead Red” not a “talking head.” The JFK assassination was a deception provocation intended to facilitate a US military invasion of Cuba. It was that bad and ugly. A US invasion of Cuba might have provoked a broader war with Russia and from the point of view of some like Air Force General Curtis LeMay that was fine because, astoundingly, he wanted to wage and “win” a nuclear WWIII. Curtis LeMay hated Kennedy so much that a child could have recruited him into a plot to kill Kennedy. LeMay told Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis that he was an appeaser equivalent to Neville Chamberlain for not bombing Cuba.

That was the pool of sharks John Kennedy was swimming in: a desperate and psychopathic serial killer Vice-President Lyndon Johnson who was literally murdering a string of people down in Texas and who was waging a sub rosa war with the Kennedys, an out-of-control CIA hell bent on a coup; an FBI director Hoover who detested JFK and who was close friends and neighbors with LBJ, and a JCS military brass who wanted to invade Cuba, wage the war in Vietnam, and Curtis Lemay who, according to Robert McNamara, wanted to wage full scale nuclear war with Russia, giving them the “Sunday punch” while the USA still had first strike capability. Add to that the white hot mafia hatred that Robert Kennedy was engendering with his prosecutions. This same mafia had been working hand in glove with their friends the CIA to take out Castro in Cuba. Think of these enemies of JFK as fasces: “a bundle of wooden sticks with an axe blade emerging from the center, which is an image that traditionally symbolizes summary power and jurisdiction, and/or strength through unity.”

The elite domestic murderers of JFK did it for many reasons, both personal and ideological. At the core it was Lyndon Johnson, the CIA, and the shadow government of Texas oil barons and the Rockefellers. It was not either/or the Western “Cowboys” or the Eastern “Yankees” who murdered John Kennedy: it was the elites of both.

I always want to learn and I am always willing to change my mind. Two excellent books to read on the JFK assassination are 1) LBJ: Mastermind of JFK’s Assassination (2010) by Phillip Nelson http://www.lbj-themastermind.com/ and 2) JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters (2008) by James Douglass. Review: http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.html

Richard Nixon knew the dirty truth about the JFK assassination, but I do not think he was directly involved. In fact, when Nixon was under intense Watergate pressure, his firewall strategy as recorded on the “smoking gun tape” was to ominously say don’t investigate me because it you do “the President believes that this is going to open up the whole Bay of Pigs thing again” – an obvious reference to the JFK assassination. Nixon’s aide Dean Burch said that when George Herbert Walker Bush heard that “He broke out in assholes and xxxx himself to death.” GHW Bush was probably an elite planner of the JFK assassination.

Howard Baker once asked Nixon, “What do you know about the Kennedy assassination?” Nixon replied “You don’t want to know.” (Source: Don Hewett.)

Lyndon Johnson himself told Madeleine Duncan Brown on the night of 12/31/63 that it was Texas oil barons and “renegade intelligence bastards” who murdered John Kennedy. LBJ and Madeleine had a son Steven Mark in 1950. (Source: Madeleine Brown.).

Edgar Hoover, along with LBJ the primary architect of the cover up, told Billy Byars, Jr.: "If I told you what I really know, it would be very dangerous to the country. Our whole political system could be disrupted." Hoover was responding to a question of whether Oswald really shot JFK. (Source: Billy Byars, Jr.)

Without a doubt, top honors for being biggest source for disinformation on the Coup of 1963 has been the NY Times whose reporting on the JFK assassination has been the equivalent of 1950’s Soviet style propaganda, i.e. completely fraudulent and parroting the 1960’s fantastic whoppers of LBJ, FBI, CIA and the Warren Commission. CBS News, ABC News, the Washington Post and the former LIFE magazine and CIA assets in other major media have been equally bad. LIFE Magazine actually bought the rights to the Zapruder film early on and never showed it once to the American people in video form., which would have revealed the incriminating “back and to the left” head snap of John Kennedy, all but proving a kill shot from the Grassy Knoll (grassy knoll shooting area being an extremely close 33 yards away from JFK). Finally, when American hero Robert Groden showed the Zapruder film on Geraldo on ABC in 1975, millions of Americans knew without a doubt what a sham the Warren Commission was.

After he murdered John Kennedy and assumed the presidency, Lyndon Johnson gave over his Administration to the Council on Foreign Relations, both in regards to domestic and foreign policy. The CFR, the CIA, the Rockefellers, the JCS, and the military contractors wanted the Vietnam War. It is extremely significant that in spring, 1968, after he had withdrawn from the presidential race, Democrat Lyndon Johnson secretly supported Republican Nelson Rockefeller for president. LBJ wanted someone who could stop Robert Kennedy, and more importantly, who would continue the cover up of the 1963 Coup d’Etat. Nelson Rockefeller personified the CFR, CIA and Eastern Establishment and I think he was a sponsor of the JFK assassination. Note: Rockefeller did not support fellow Republican Barry Goldwater in his 1964 race against Johnson.

A special word about the Council on Relations role in the 1963 Coup d’Etat and cover up: no other organization has been more responsible for the murder and cover up of John Kennedy than the CFR. Elite CFR members such as Allen Dulles, Nelson Rockefeller and George Herbert Walker Bush were probably sponsors of the JFK assassination. Certainly leadership CFR members such as Allen Dulles, John J. McCloy, and Gerald Ford played the most critical roles in the Warren Commission farce. Add in cover up roles played by Nelson Rockefeller (CFR), Henry Kissinger (CFR), Richard Helms (CFR), William Colby CIA/CFR, McGeorge Bundy (CFR), Nicholas Katzenbach (CFR), Jack Valenti (CFR), Bill Moyers (CFR), William Coleman (CFR) James Reston NY Times (CFR), Anthony Lewis NY Times (CFR), William F. Buckley (CFR),

Walter Cronkite CBS (CFR), Dan Rather CBS (CFR), Peter Jennings ABC (CFR), Daniel Schorr (CFR), Arthur Ochs Sulzberger NY Times (CFR), Kenneth Gilmore Readers’ Digest (CFR), Stephen Rosenfeld Washington Post (CFR), Bobbie Ray Inman (CFR), Arnold de Borchgrave (CFR), Donald Rumsfeld (CFR), Rupert Murdoch FOX (CFR)… the list is almost endless. Note two things: 1) they are the key establishment players of BOTH major political parties spanning decades 2) their power and influence is directly proportional to the fantastic whoppers they tell about in the 1963 Coup d’Etat. For the older CFR members it is a case of PARTICIPATION and COVER UP in the JFK assassination. For the younger ones such as George Will (CFR), Charles Krauthammer (CFR), Bill Kristol (CFR), David Gergen (CFR), John Segenthaler (CFR), Frank Sesno (CFR), Michael Beschloss (CFR), Stephen M. Walt (CFR), Michael Gerson (CFR) it is a case of WILLFUL IGNORANCE as they still push the Big Lie. Note: Chris Matthews of Hardball, another willfully ignorant man, is close friends with Richard Haass, current president of CFR. I have never seen highly acclaimed political guru Michael Barone, a Bilderberger attendee, ever say anything credible on the JFK assassination.

Question: do we really expect the CFR to admit that some of its elite members slaughtered John Kennedy and many more played integral roles in the cover up? No, but it is important to highlight that the Council on Foreign Relations has stunk up the place with tremendous amounts of radioactive horse manure relating to the 1963 Coup d’Etat.

The 1963 Coup d’Etat was very similar to the 1992 election between George Herbert Walker Bush, Ross Perot and Bill Clinton. In 1963, there was a Texas Vice President, a desperate and dangerous Lyndon Johnson - supported by the CFR, the intelligence agencies, military contractors and the oil industry - who feared exposure of his criminality and was on the verge of political and personal annihilation. So Lyndon Johnson used the CIA to murder his political rival John Kennedy.

In the 1992, there was a Texas President, a desperate and dangerous George Herbert Walker Bush, supported by the CFR, the intelligence agencies, military contractors and the oil industry - who feared exposure of his criminality and was on the verge of political and personal annihilation. Ross Perot was well aware of the gargantuan Bush/Clinton/CIA drug smuggling of the 1980’s. So George Herbert Walker Bush used CIA assassins to threaten to murder Ross Perot. GHW Bush feared what Perot, a self-funded (and therefore uncontrollable) billionaire might do in office. Bush, like LBJ 29 years before, faced both political and personal annihilation if an untainted Ross Perot were elected.

Ross Perot was leading in a Time/CNN poll in June, 1992, with 37% to 24% Clinton, 24% Bush. On July 16, 1992, Ross Perot, a billionaire who could self-fund and was leading in the polls significantly, QUIT the presidential race because he feared that a desperate George Herbert Walker Bush might assassinate him. Google “Chip Tatum Pegasus” and read about the elite CIA assassin who quit rather than follow the orders of George Herbert Walker Bush and neutralize Ross Perot:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html An incensed Perot later got back in the race only to ensure the election of Bill Clinton.

I think that George Herbert Walker Bush became a made man with the JFK assassination in 1963. One of the first things the Bill Clinton CFR did after he got elected in 1992 was to ask Webb Hubbell at Justice to find out who really killed John Kennedy.

The Discovery Channel has put out some incredibly bogus, poorly done disinfo presentations such as Inside the Target Car. Any MSM site that features Vincent Bugliosi, Gerald Posner, especially Hugh Aynesworth, Edward Jay Epstein, Gus Russo, Michael Shermer, Dale Meyers, Max Holland, Dave Perry or Gary Mack prominently and positively is giving you counterfeit money. Edward Epstein and Gerald Posner in particular are thought by many credible JFK researchers to be CIA propagandists. If you google “JFK assassination” the first 2 links that come up are lone nutter controlled disinfo sites: 1) Wikipedia 2) John McAdam’s site. John McAdams is a very lowly regarded man who basically controls JFK related content on Wikipedia as well as his own site. Both Wikipedia and the NY Times are both tremendously dishonest sources for information relating to the 1963 Coup d’Etat. Finally, another major source of disinformation on the Coup of 1963 is the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas, which blithely recycles the shredded vapors of the Warren Commission, as if it had an ounce of truth in it. Gary Mack, the curator of the Sixth Floor Museum, simply does not have credibility on the JFK assassination.

In the near future there are going to be efforts by both Tom Hanks (HBO series) and Leonardo DiCaprio (a movie) to take on the JFK assassination. Sadly, these are both going to be disinformation efforts; the ONLY legitimate take on the JFK assassination is that it was a full blown domestic coup d’etat. Tom Hanks is a clueless lone nutter.

The best discussion boards on the internet for good info are 1) Education Forum 2) Deep Politics Forum 3) www.assassinationresearch.com 4) JFKmurdersolved.com and 5) Mary Ferrell Foundation – www.maryferrell.org 6) JFK Lancer. On Facebook, the premier spot is JFK-The Grassy Knoll Witnesses (run by Rusty Yardum) http://www.facebook.com/pages/JFK-The-Grassy-Knoll-Witnesses/115305938487641 . Black Op radio’s web site www.blackopradio.com (Len Osanic) is an excellent place to listen to high quality interviews with folks such as JFK expert Jim DiEugenio. Deep Politics Quarterly (Walt Brown) http://www.manuscriptservice.com/DPQ/ and www.ctka.net (Jim DiEugenio) are 2 other quality spots on the internet.

As for videos, I highly recommend going to You Tube and watching the extremely important The Men Who Killed Kennedy - (episodes 7, 8, and 9). Much of these episodes focus on the role of Lyndon Johnson in the 1963 Coup d’Etat and they were BANNED from the History Channel because they were so accurate. LBJ aide Jack Valenti (CFR) organized a suppression campaign on the videos along with Lady Bird Johnson, Warren Commission con man Gerald Ford (CFR), Jimmy Carter (CFR) and Bill Moyers (CFR). Also, on You Tube watch “Evidence of Revision” and Jesse Ventura’s 2010 Conspiracy Theory show on the JFK assassination (You Tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHUKPXR5TbQ ). In addition, I recommend JFK the movie by Oliver Stone, director’s cut. Oliver Stone, despite immense criticism in the MSM by CIA assets, pretty much nailed the JFK assassination. It was a full blown Coup d’Etat by Lyndon Johnson, the CIA and key elements of the U.S. military.

Robert Morrow is a political researcher with over 200+ books on the 1963 Coup d’Etat, aka JFK assassination. His email is Morrow321@aol.com and he accepts phone calls at 512-306-1510.

1) http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/morrow-r1.1.1.html

2) http://www.infowars.com/the-lbj-cia-assassination-of-jfk/

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I mean, how many crimes get solved by citizens looking into it, as opposed to law enforcement looking into it? Very, very few.

Correct. And the JFK case is certainly no different.

But I guess maybe the WC should have published 52 volumes, instead of their paltry 26, huh? And those 552 witnesses weren't nearly enough to "prove" anything, were they?

Get real, Pat. You're smarter than most of the CT pack. I know you are.

If we believe the "citizens" who have looked into the case, there would be no hope in "solving" the JFK case. Good gosh, we'd have anywhere from 4 to 12 gunshots, and 2 to 6 gunmen, and 3 to 4,798 co-conspirators.

That's some "solved" crime, huh?

We're better off if the conspiracy theorists stay on the bench. Because when they enter the ballgame, common sense goes out the window.

Edited by David Von Pein
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I mean, how many crimes get solved by citizens looking into it, as opposed to law enforcement looking into it? Very, very few.

Correct. And the JFK case is certainly no different.

But I guess maybe the WC should have published 52 volumes, instead of their paltry 26, huh? And those 552 witnesses weren't nearly enough to "prove" anything, were they?

Get real, Pat. You're smarter than most of the CT pack. I know you are.

If we believe the "citizens" who have looked into the case, there would be no hope in "solving" the JFK case. Good gosh, we'd have anywhere from 4 to 12 gunshots, and 2 to 6 gunmen, and 3 to 4,798 co-conspirators.

That's some "solved" crime, huh?

We're better off if the conspiracy theorists stay on the bench. Because when they enter the ballgame, common sense goes out the window.

David, it wasn't the size of the Warren Commission that was the problem. It was the scope. It spent far too much energy on Oswald and Ruby as people, IMO, and neglected to answer basic questions about the shootings of Kennedy and Oswald, and subsequent investigation.

Part of this was political. As detailed by Waggoner Carr in his memoir, it was agreed that the Warren Commission would be "fair" to Texas, in exchange for Texas' not running its own investigation. This deal, it should be clear, led the WC to avoid or go easy on a lot of questions that needed to be answered. For example, it backed off on its investigation of how Ruby got into the basement when Patrick Dean, an almost certain perjurer, started to complain. It also backed off on a lot of questions re the medical evidence, supposedly out of deference to the Kennedy family.

So, EVEN if one agrees with the Warren Commission's conclusions, the position taken by all too many LNs--that the Warren Commission was determined to get at the truth no matter what, and wasn't compromised by politics--is LuNacy.

Heck, even David Belin--perhaps the biggest WC supporter after the issuance of its findings--acknowledged he was horrified by some of Warren's decisions. I remember reading an essay by Gerald Posner where he agreed the investigation was flawed. So let's not pretend otherwise, and that the questions left unanswered by the WC are purely the creation of wacky conspiracy theorists. They are not. Many of them are questions the WC itself knew about but was too scared to answer.

So, while I agree with your basic point--that much of what's been written by CTs has only clouded the issues--I disagree with your point, if that is indeed your point, that we'd have been better off without any CT books. I mean, what choice does the public have when those in POWER refuse to do their jobs? They agitate, and try to get them to do their jobs.

Edited by Pat Speer
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So-called "conspiracy theorists" are a dime a dozen. They are of no consequence whatsoever. They are as damaging to the discovery of the truth as are the

lone nutters with their penchant for idiotic thinking based in a deep need to cling to the illusion that they live in the best of all possible worlds. At least the

CT's have no such illusion. Unfortunately, they believe the opposite and equally inaccurate scenario is true.

However, sincere historians, scholars, and students of this case do not theorize irresponsibly.

LOL this from someone who reported the claim of an anonymous source as fact then refused to admit error when proven to be wrong. And yes I'm referring

to your false claim that Zapruder worked at Nardis till 1959.

Len,

There is a difference between irresponsible speculation and an honest factual error or typo.

Your error wasn’t a typo and comes closer to “irresponsible speculation” than “an honest factual error” you took the claim of anonymous source who would have been at least 65 years-old recalling events that had transpired almost five decades earlier yet you reported what he told you as fact rather than the claim of an anonymous source as responsible journalist or historian would have done. Did you even attempt to verify that he worked for Nardis at the time

At the time of the writing, it was my belief that the correct year was 1959.

I’m sure David Icke sincerely believes the Rothschild and Windsor families are shapeshifters, believing what you claim separates honest people from dishonest ones but by no means responsible from irresponsible ones.

As it turns out, the correct year was more likely 1954 because that's the year he co-founded Jennifer Junior's.

Sorry you’re still wrong he started the company in 1949, well before LeGon joined Nardis

Unfortunately, my original source is deceased now, so I can't go back and get a clarification from him. As I said to you before, the article was written more than a decade ago and I had not re-visited it in quite some time. That area of my research has concluded and I don't plan on reviving it.

Since the article is widely posted on the Internet* the responsible thing to do would be to issue a correction and contact the webmasters who host it. Since your source was obviously unreliable you should drop all claims based on his sayso.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=%22In+1953+and+1954+a+woman+named%2C+Jeanne+LeGon+worked+side+by+side+with+Abraham+Zapruder+at+a+high+end+clothing+design+firm+called%2C+Nardis+of+Dallas.+Jeanne+LeGon+designed+the+clothing%22&btnG=Google+Search&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&rlz=1R2ACAW_enUS409&fp=6096eef521c22064

Edited by Len Colby
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Mike Picardi,

If you ever get a film made of your screenplay with someone like David Von Pein as the protagonist, let us know so we can avoid it.

Yeah, we should never even SUGGEST that Lee H. Oswald had anything to do with JFK's murder, should we, Sterling? For that is a taboo subject around these parts.

In other words--to hell with the evidence and Oswald's OWN ACTIONS on the day of the assassination.

Dale Myers, another LNer that conspiracy mongers love to hate, said it very well last year.....

"For forty-six years we’ve been hearing about the big conspiracy that killed Kennedy and still we’ve seen not one shred of believable evidence that anyone other than Oswald was behind the deed. And despite [Oliver] Stone’s claim that those in the media and academia are too afraid to risk their careers or positions of power to expose the truth about the Kennedy murder, numerous television networks, reporters, lawyers, and private individuals have done just that only to find Oswald alone in the sniper’s nest window. Apparently, reality doesn’t set well with the Hollywood filmmaker. Denial is so much more comforting." -- Dale K. Myers; January 25, 2010

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/01/oliver-stone-says-us-is-still-in-denial.html

Oh pleez. . .I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in defense of" Vincent Bugliosi.

Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History."

Hundreds and hundreds of pages were written/rewritten by Myers.

There are two signed contracts (at least) between Myers and Bugliosi and/or his publisher.

The first contract was when Myers first hired onto the project. The second contract (or contracts) occurred when Myers and Bugliosi found they couldn't get along with one another ("creative differences" is the Hollywood term) and so a legal "divorce" had to be arranged.

Both contracts included provisions that Dale Myers could not talk about the role he played--in other words, complete "confidentiality" was a part of the legal arrangement--both in the case of the original "marriage" and then the "divorce."

As I also noted, the very talented and highly intelligent Fred Haines (now deceased) was the writer--i.e., the paid ghostwriter--for the entire 260-page "Oswald" section that is a critical part of "Reclaiming History." I personally know that Haines was paid upwards of $50,000 per year--that's right, $50k per year (or more)--to work on the project. And it went on for years. Anyone who has done any detailed research on the Kennedy case knows how difficult and time consuming such research can be. Haines was immersed in that sort of activity for years--as a paid ghost.

Add the two together--Haines' 260 pages plus Myers' work--and you have over 600 pages of Bugliosi's book written by two other writers.

Whatever you think of Bugliosi--and (speaking personally) I find the man vitriolic, error-prone, and disagreeable to the max--its absurd to be citing Dale Myers "in defense of Bugliosi" since he wrote (and/or rewrote) such a substantial portion of the book himself (!).

Finally: all this is particularly relevant since "Four Days in November" (which is nothing more than a page-by-page verbatim reprint of pp. 1-319 of "Reclaiming History") has been published as a separate book. Yet that book, as published, mentions nothing about Dale Myers, yet this is precisely the part of "Reclaiming History" which was the focus of so much of Myers' own effort.

In reality, then, and setting aside all the legal mumbo-jumbo, Dale Myers has now published (or co-written) 3 books on the assassination: (1) His book on Tippit; (2) "Reclaiming History," on which he was a paid ghost; and (3) "Four Days in November," which is nothing but a reprint of pages 1 - 319 of Reclaiming History.

Again, I repeat: its absurd to be citing Dale Myers "in defense of Bugliosi" since he (Myers) wrote such a substantial portion of both "Reclaiming History," and of "Four Days in November."

DVP: do yourself and others on this forum a favor, and "get real."

DSL

2/25/11 4:40 PM

Los Angeles Ca

BELOW HERE --EXCERPT FROM A PREVIOUS POST ON THE NET ABOUT THIS SITUATION:

After Dale Myers attacked me on his website (a few weeks after my original “Ghoswriters” essay was posted) I decided “enough is enough”. Why should I not identify him, since I knew all about his situation? And so I then wrote a separate piece, adding additional facts, and properly identified Dale Myers as “Writer Number 2”. (See my essay, dated 8/5/07, titled “Dale Myers Outs Himself.”) That essay demonstrates, based on Bugliosi’s own statements (in his acknowledgements) that Dale Myers wrote about 400 pages of Reclaiming History. When that is added to the 260 pages (the “Oswald biography”) that Bugliosi admits was written by Haines, the result is that (now quoting myself) “at least half the book—if not more—is ghostwritten.”

This is particularly pertinent now that Four Days in November (which is nothing more than a page by page reprint of pp. 1-319 of Reclaiming History) has been published as a separate book, and yet mentions nothing about Dale Myers! In fact, based on my analysis (which is based on Bugliosi’s own statements, as made in the acknowledgements section of Reclaiming History) the de facto author of Four Days in November is Dale Myers. Presumably, he has been appropriately remunerated for the effort it took to write “Four Days in November”, without any mention of his name in the book. Presumably, he has also signed a contract which requires him to remain silent about any role he played, in this book, just as the original agreement with Norton required him to remain silent about the role he played in Reclaiming History.

Edited by David Lifton
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Mike Picardi,

If you ever get a film made of your screenplay with someone like David Von Pein as the protagonist, let us know so we can avoid it.

Yeah, we should never even SUGGEST that Lee H. Oswald had anything to do with JFK's murder, should we, Sterling? For that is a taboo subject around these parts.

In other words--to hell with the evidence and Oswald's OWN ACTIONS on the day of the assassination.

Dale Myers, another LNer that conspiracy mongers love to hate, said it very well last year.....

"For forty-six years we've been hearing about the big conspiracy that killed Kennedy and still we've seen not one shred of believable evidence that anyone other than Oswald was behind the deed. And despite [Oliver] Stone's claim that those in the media and academia are too afraid to risk their careers or positions of power to expose the truth about the Kennedy murder, numerous television networks, reporters, lawyers, and private individuals have done just that only to find Oswald alone in the sniper's nest window. Apparently, reality doesn't set well with the Hollywood filmmaker. Denial is so much more comforting." -- Dale K. Myers; January 25, 2010

http://jfkfiles.blog...-in-denial.html

Oh pleez. . .I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in defense of" Vincent Bugliosi.

Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for Bugliosi' Reclaiming History.

Hundreds and hundreds of pages were written/rewritten by Myers.

There are two signed contracts (at least) between Myers and Bugliosi and/or his publisher.

The first contract was when Myers first hired on to the project. The second contract (or contracts) occurred when Myers and Bugliosi found they couldn't get along with one another ("creative differences" is the Hollywood term) and so a "divorce" had to be arranged.

As I also noted, Fred Haines was the writer--i.e., the paid ghostwriter--for the entire 200 plus pages of Bugliosi's "Oswald" section. I personally know that Haines was paid upwards of $50,000 per year to work on the project. And it went on for years.

Add the two together, and you have over 600 pages of Bugliosi's book written by two other writers.

Whatever you think of Bugliosi, its absurd to be citing Dale Myers "in defense of Bugliosi" since he wrote such a substantial portion of the book himself.

DVP: do yourself and others on this forum a favor, and "get real."

DSL

2/25/11 4:40 PM

Los Angeles Ca

BELOW HERE --EXCERPT FROM A PREVIOUS POST ON THE NET ABOUT THIS SITUATION:

After Dale Myers attacked me on his website (a few weeks after my original "Ghoswriters" essay was posted) I decided "enough is enough". Why should I not identify him, since I knew all about his situation? And so I then wrote a separate piece, adding additional facts, and properly identified Dale Myers as "Writer Number 2". (See my essay, dated 8/5/07, titled "Dale Myers Outs Himself.") That essay demonstrates, based on Bugliosi's own statements (in his acknowledgements) that Dale Myers wrote about 400 pages of Reclaiming History. When that is added to the 260 pages (the "Oswald biography") that Bugliosi admits was written by Haines, the result is that (now quoting myself) "at least half the book—if not more—is ghostwritten."

This is particularly pertinent now that Four Days in November (which is nothing more than a page by page reprint of pp. 1-319 of Reclaiming History) has been published as a separate book, and yet mentions nothing about Dale Myers! In fact, based on my analysis (which is based on Bugliosi's own statements, as made in the acknowledgements section of Reclaiming History) the de facto author of Four Days in November is Dale Myers. Presumably, he has been appropriately remunerated for the effort it took to write "Four Days in November", without any mention of his name in the book. Presumably, he has also signed a contract which requires him to remain silent about any role he played, in this book, just as the original agreement with Norton required him to remain silent about the role he played in Reclaiming History.

Can you tell us anything about Starling Lawrence, Bugliosi's W.W. Norton editor who dished out the bucks for the book and 4 Days in Nov.?

W. W. Norton was also the publisher of the official 9/11 Commission Final Report, and I was wondering if they had a monopoly on such deals?

Thanks,

BK

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This Thread is about the mindset of the Conspiracy Theorist

To compare... what would then be the mindset of a Theoretical physicist who uses math instead of eivdence?

The Physicist tries to explain a series of events or predict a series of events using the tools available, trial and error, and repetition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physics

Theoretical advances may consist in setting aside old, incorrect paradigms (e.g., Burning consists of evolving phlogiston, or Astronomical bodies revolve around the Earth) or may be an alternative model that provides answers that are more accurate or that can be more widely applied.

So DVP et al.... All a conspiracy theorist does is use the tools available, trial and error, and repetition to explain a series of events in a manner than makes sense AND leads to other understandings surround the event being theorized about. DVP - YOUR Conspiracy Theory is that there was no Conspiracy... I'm cool with that.

Calling well documented examples of more than one person involved in the events of 11-22-63 FANTASY without proving your point is tantamount to you proclaiming the earth is flat... Since you cannot prove Oswald was in the window with the rifle at the time of the assassination - all your over the top name calling and ignoring of this information just makes you close minded... or a disciple of a doctrine that does not require proof but only FAITH in the source of the information.... be it the Bible or the WCR.

As I posted in the LN mindset thread... To you and your ilk, nothing of significance has occurred in this case since Oswald was arrested at the Texas Theater

Nothing.

And as I reread your posts with that understanding... what you post and why is very clear.

Edited by David Josephs
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Mike Picardi,

If you ever get a film made of your screenplay with someone like David Von Pein as the protagonist, let us know so we can avoid it.

Yeah, we should never even SUGGEST that Lee H. Oswald had anything to do with JFK's murder, should we, Sterling? For that is a taboo subject around these parts.

In other words--to hell with the evidence and Oswald's OWN ACTIONS on the day of the assassination.

Dale Myers, another LNer that conspiracy mongers love to hate, said it very well last year.....

"For forty-six years we’ve been hearing about the big conspiracy that killed Kennedy and still we’ve seen not one shred of believable evidence that anyone other than Oswald was behind the deed. And despite [Oliver] Stone’s claim that those in the media and academia are too afraid to risk their careers or positions of power to expose the truth about the Kennedy murder, numerous television networks, reporters, lawyers, and private individuals have done just that only to find Oswald alone in the sniper’s nest window. Apparently, reality doesn’t set well with the Hollywood filmmaker. Denial is so much more comforting." -- Dale K. Myers; January 25, 2010

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/01/oliver-stone-says-us-is-still-in-denial.html

Oh pleez. . .I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in defense of" Vincent Bugliosi.

Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for Bugliosi' Reclaiming History.

Hundreds and hundreds of pages were written/rewritten by Myers.

There are two signed contracts (at least) between Myers and Bugliosi and/or his publisher.

The first contract was when Myers first hired on to the project. The second contract (or contracts) occurred when Myers and Bugliosi found they couldn't get along with one another ("creative differences" is the Hollywood term) and so a "divorce" had to be arranged.

As I also noted, Fred Haines was the writer--i.e., the paid ghostwriter--for the entire 200 plus pages of Bugliosi's "Oswald" section. I personally know that Haines was paid upwards of $50,000 per year to work on the project. And it went on for years.

Add the two together, and you have over 600 pages of Bugliosi's book written by two other writers.

Whatever you think of Bugliosi, its absurd to be citing Dale Myers "in defense of Bugliosi" since he wrote such a substantial portion of the book himself.

DVP: do yourself and others on this forum a favor, and "get real."

DSL

2/25/11 4:40 PM

Los Angeles Ca

BELOW HERE --EXCERPT FROM A PREVIOUS POST ON THE NET ABOUT THIS SITUATION:

After Dale Myers attacked me on his website (a few weeks after my original “Ghoswriters” essay was posted) I decided “enough is enough”. Why should I not identify him, since I knew all about his situation? And so I then wrote a separate piece, adding additional facts, and properly identified Dale Myers as “Writer Number 2”. (See my essay, dated 8/5/07, titled “Dale Myers Outs Himself.”) That essay demonstrates, based on Bugliosi’s own statements (in his acknowledgements) that Dale Myers wrote about 400 pages of Reclaiming History. When that is added to the 260 pages (the “Oswald biography”) that Bugliosi admits was written by Haines, the result is that (now quoting myself) “at least half the book—if not more—is ghostwritten.”

This is particularly pertinent now that Four Days in November (which is nothing more than a page by page reprint of pp. 1-319 of Reclaiming History) has been published as a separate book, and yet mentions nothing about Dale Myers! In fact, based on my analysis (which is based on Bugliosi’s own statements, as made in the acknowledgements section of Reclaiming History) the de facto author of Four Days in November is Dale Myers. Presumably, he has been appropriately remunerated for the effort it took to write “Four Days in November”, without any mention of his name in the book. Presumably, he has also signed a contract which requires him to remain silent about any role he played, in this book, just as the original agreement with Norton required him to remain silent about the role he played in Reclaiming History.

DVP, when you consider that Four Days In November was written with a second shot at 224 (a la Myers) listed as a fact, and that Bugliosi, throughout the rest of the book, claimed the second shot was around 210, it should be apparent that Lifton is probably right, and that Myers quite possibly wrote the first section of the book.

You know VB is not what you want him to be. You know he mis-represented David Mantik's statements so he could pretend he'd won over a prominent CT. So, just admit your idol's feet are made of clay, and get it over with.

You can still pretend he was right about Oswald.

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The original CTers were the cops:

"The initial instincts of experienced law enforcement personnel are not always accurate -- but there are certain types of cases, crimes and crimes scenes where you have aspects that are almost impossible NOT get right at first glance. Those aspects really are that black and white. One such aspect of this case which stood out to people like Wade and Scott -- this was not the work of one man acting on impulse."

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t106-what-law-enforcement-officials-really-thought-that-weekend

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