Discussing the Mindset of Lone Nutters

[B. A. Copeland]

Is it silly to assume that IF one theory is that she was controlled (and lets take it as a theory for the sake of this discussion) then........well who is to say she wasn't/isn't still being watched after all of these years? When I say controlled, I do not mean a direct, hands-on sense. She more than likely said what had to be said, though what she said probably was not how or what she felt. Also, given what she knows, I am sure she is cautious. Russ Baker wrote a good piece on Marina Oswald's testimony or statements surrounding the JFK murder, take a look at it and get back to me. Look at the case of Raul/Raoul from the MLK hit (being monitored or having a careful eye on him after so many years). It is not silly. Oswald did not shoot at Wakler, JFK or Tippitt. I am sorry but I cannot live with or consider falsehoods. You know blasted well Oswald did not murder John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

[Martin Hinrichs]

I believe the mindset of a poor LN'er is based upon a kind of "wirrwarr" in their heads.

Most not evil intentions cause they are too much.

Maybe fooled by too many outlandish theories like the moon landing or Big Foot or Nessie

with the will to got back straight without super reflection.

Means to be a part of strenght and the strong will to be a part of kind of scientist.

Like this french man some months ago.

Like fallen into victims trapped among into a great opposition without a chance to get never come back.

Defend your team is the parole.

Or maybe the sons or daughters whom are the WC apologists?

Who knows. Who are they?

You need no hyper IQ to come to the conclusion that this was a conspiracy.

It's just a matter of time when this illusion collapse that LHO did acted alone.

It's so easy.

Martin

[Greg Parker]

Oswald did not CHOOSE to go to Russia, he was instructed to do so. This is why he was getting language training in the Marines, why he took a test in Russian, why his hardship discharge was arranged beforehand, why he knew to go to Helsinki to get a quickly processed transit visa to Russia, and why he stayed while he was there at a hotel as lush as the Savoy.

As per the Walker shooting, unless bullets can change their shape and caliber as they are flying in the air, Oswald did not shoot at Walker.

GIve it up Davey.

Jim.

he had so little time left to serve, why the need for a bogus hardship -- along with an expedited visa? What was the urgency... and why doesn't anyone ask those questions, let alone tr to answer them?

It speaks of a deadline to me.... and what was looming fast in that time frame was the signing of a science and technology exchange agreement... an agreement which allowed for "backdoor" exchanges... say for example on radar which had been a sticking point in test ban negotiations, but which could not be exchanged openly because of the hawks...

Oswald was not a spy when he went to Russia -- he was a (legal) courier -- just as he had been in all his work experience before the Marines.

[David Josephs]

Jim et al...

Just take a look at Sun Tzu's Art of War to grasp the mindset...

The practiced art of deception, misdirection, and attack from within and without has nothing to do with "context"..

just winning the war.

As long as we engage, we grant credibility where none has been demonstrated.

Is our convincing DVP of ANYTHING the point of these threads - and if so, how fruitless is that pursuit?

Do serious people looking into the assasination actually regard DVP's site, or McAdams the FINAL word...

I mean if someone goes to the trouble to search for info they will most definitely stumble across some counter point to DVP and J.M.... and if they do not search that out... would they have believed any of the counterpoint in the first place?

Mindset.... Influencing the Hearts and Minds of the People...

Now who do we know good at that I wonder?

DJ

Bob Weir from "Black Throated Wind" -

"You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"

[William Kelly]

I must say that the reason why her "testimony" is not regarded as truly honest is because she was obviously guided to say what she said. She was being watched and controlled.

And was Marina Oswald still being "controlled" in November of 2000 when she confirmed to Vince Bugliosi that LHO told her that he had shot at Walker??

For Pete sake, how silly.

Or do you think Bugliosi just MADE UP from whole cloth that Marina quote that appears on Page 1487 of "Reclaiming History"?

Oswald shot at Walker. Live with it.

Oswald met Volkmar Schmidt at the same Magnolia Oil company party arranged by DeMohrenschildts for Oswald to meet the Paines.

Schmidt talked with Oswald for about two hours and mentioned the Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler and how it would have changed history if successful.Then he asked Oswald if Walker should be shot. JFKcountercoup: Volkmar Schmidt Interview

Then Oswald, BEFORE ordering the rifle and the pistol, goes to Walker's residence, scouts it out, takes photos of the house and neighborhood and car parked in driveway (the owner of whom the Dallas PD tries to protect by cutting out the license plate), writes a notebook full of reports on what he is doing, orders the rifle, and is working at the Jaggers/Chiles/Stoval photo firm, which does defense contracting work for the Army, putting captions on U2 photos of Russia and Cuba. At the time he is supposed to pick up his rifle from the post office he is working at JCS on a job for Sam Bloom Ad Agency, responsible for the motorcade route and schedule.

After Walker is shot, an event that includes an accomplice with a car, he returns home without the rifle, sweating, nervous, goes into his room and lies down, in a state that Marina had never seen him before, and then he tears up, burns and flushes the notebook down the toilet.

Now in order to kill JFK all by himself, he has no motive (as he had with Walker), takes no photos, no notebook, doesn't appear to know the President is coming, is cool, calm and collected, both before and after the assassination, and denies having killed anyone, despite the alleged motive of seeking historical fame.

The only thing the Walker shooting and the Dealey Plaza operation have in common is the rifle, the phantom bullets, and the official story that Oswald escaped by bus after leaving the rifle behind.

Was the Walker shooting a dry run for Dealey Plaza? Was it a set up to see if Oswald would follow instructions?

Was Oswald the Walker shooter or was he the accomplice?

Oh, yea, and Hosty, the FBI agent was responsible for investigating the Walker incident and Oswald's security status in USA at the same time and never put two and two together.

And Col. Jose Rivera in Washington D.C. knew of Oswald's connection to the Walker shooting on April 20, but the cops in DC didn't know?

If you want to go into the Walker shooting, it could possibly lead to the real assassins, but I don't think you want to go there.

BK JFKcountercoup

[Mark Knight]

Mark Knight is lousy at basic math. (Almost all conspiracy theorists are, of course.)

Basic math is ONE thing. SPECULATING on what the evidence means is NOT what I do...unlike yourself, Mr. Von Pein. The police report on the Walker shooting states that the bullet recovered was a STEEL jacketed round. The 6.5MM rounds fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano [not specifically "Carcano" bullets, as the bullets were NOT specific to a certain make of rifle, but to a certain caliber] were COPPER jacketed rounds. The bullet alleged to be from the Walker shooting as displayed in the WC exhibits in most certainly NOT a steel jacketed bullet.

So I can either conclude that the Dallas police were incompetent, and couldn't tell steel from copper...or I can question the obviously flawed Warren Commission reports and the methods used to arrive at their conclusions.

I DO NOT believe that Oswald is completely innocent in the JFK assassination...as you seem to assume I believe. I merely believe that the investigation was flawed, and that there are unanswered questions that the WC tried to sweep under the rug.

I further believe that JFK was, indeed, struck by three bullets fired from above and behind...if that's any consolation to you, Dave.

But don't ASSUME that I'm a conspiracy theorist, just because I don't follow you like a lap dog.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Mark Knight

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Speaking of the "mindset" of the Lone Nutters, here is the book that is their new bible especially among the conservative intellectuals: "Camelot & the Cultural Revolution: How the Assassination of John F. Kennedy Shattered American Liberalism by James Piereson. The lone nutters seem to be congregating around the neocon right wing in the year 2011 (Bugliosi an exception and NOT the rule).

http://www.amazon.com/Camelot-Cultural-Revolution-Assassination-Liberalism/dp/1594032580/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298779065&sr=1-1-spell

Review

In his book Camelot and the Cultural Revolution, Mr. Piereson has brilliantly added a new dimension to the bitter controversy that still rages over the JFK assassination: political perspective. It is much needed, if only to make some sense of the disputation over evidence that has gone on for over forty years. -- Edward Jay Epstein, author of Inquest: The Warren Commission and the Establishment of Truth and Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald

James Piereson has written an idiosyncratic, provocative, and quite brilliant book. He puts the Kennedy assasination--or, rather, the left's rewriting of history occasioned by the Kennedy assassination--at the center of liberalism's crackup in the 1960s in a way that no one, so far as I know, has done before. I'll go so far as to say this: Piereson's study will be indispensable to anyone, from now on, who seriously tries to come to grips with the last half-century of our history. -- William Kristol, Editor, The Weekly Standard

Mr. Piereson shows that the assassination of Kennedy was more than a shot heard round the world. It was a shot that blasted into the liberal Weltanschauung, bringing on the enormities of the sixties and seventies. Mr. Piereson earns the gratitude of curious people, whom he fascinates. -- William F. Buckley Jr.

Product Description

It has now been more than forty years since President John F. Kennedy was assassinated on the streets of Dallas on November 22, 1963. No event in the post-war era, not even the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, has cast such a long shadow over our national life. The murder of the handsome and vigorous president shocked the nation to its core, and shook the faith of many Americans in their institutions and way of life. The repercussions from that event continue to be felt down to the present day. Looking back, it is now clear that Kennedy’s death marked a historical crossroads after which point events began to move in surprising and destructive directions.

In Camelot and the Cultural Revolution: How the Assassination of John F. Kennedy Shattered American Liberalism, James Piereson examines this seminal event from an entirely new and provocative point of view. Most books on the assassination take up the question as to who was really responsible for killing the President. Mr. Piereson takes it as established fact that Kennedy was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald.

What needs to be explained, he argues, is the bizarre aftermath of the assassination: Why in the years after the assassination did the American Left become preoccupied with conspiratorial thinking? How and why was John F. Kennedy transformed in death into a liberal icon and a martyr for civil rights? In what way was the assassination linked to the collapse of mid-century liberalism, a doctrine which until 1963 was the reigning philosophy of the nation? In answering these questions, Piereson places great weight on the influence of Jacqueline Kennedy in shaping public memory of her husband and the meaning of his death. The Kennedy assassination, he argues, is a case study in public myth-making and the ways in which images and symbols can override fact and substance in political life.

[David Von Pein]

Now in order to kill JFK all by himself, he [LHO] has no motive (as he had with Walker), takes no photos, no notebook, doesn't appear to know the President is coming, is cool, calm and collected, both before and after the assassination, and denies having killed anyone, despite the alleged motive of seeking historical fame. The only thing the Walker shooting and the Dealey Plaza operation have in common is the rifle, the phantom bullets, and the official story that Oswald escaped by bus after leaving the rifle behind.

As I've said numerous times in the past when something this silly comes to the forefront (i.e., the "silly" part is believing that Oswald did NOT shoot at Walker AND did NOT shoot Kennedy AND did NOT shoot Tippit):

Shame on Lee Harvey for not meeting the rigid expectations of the conspiracy theorists! He should have been shot for doing things HIS WAY, instead of the way CTers like William Kelly and Jimbo "FRAZIER LIED ABOUT THE BAG" DiEugenio think he should have done things.

(Oh, I forgot--he was shot, wasn't he?)

Edited February 27, 2011 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Do serious people looking into the assasination actually regard DVP's site, or McAdams the FINAL word...I mean if someone goes to the trouble to search for info they will most definitely stumble across some counter point to DVP and J.M.... and if they do not search that out... would they have believed any of the counterpoint in the first place?

All conspiracy theorists should go to my blog below. There's more common sense on this page than you can shake a stick at:

Mindset.... Influencing the Hearts and Minds of the People...

Now who do we know good at that I wonder?

Oliver Stone maybe?

Mark Lane?

Jim Garrison?

Those three conspiracy-happy individuals almost immediately popped into my head when pondering your above inquiry.

Edited February 27, 2011 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

Those who believe Oswald shot the President alone should read this and answer the questions posed.

JFKcountercoup: Lee Harvey Oswald & Possible Motives

Those who truely believe Oswald killed the President alone should sign this petition and support the efforts to release the remaining governmetn records about the assassination because they will confirm their beliefs.

JFK Act Oversight Hearings Petition

Bill Kelly

JFKcountercoup

[David G. Healy]

...

All conspiracy theorists should go to my blog below. There's more common sense on this page than you can shake a stick at

...

no xxxxx advertising, hon!

Edited February 28, 2011 by David G. Healy

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Mark Knight is lousy at basic math. (Almost all conspiracy theorists are, of course.)

Basic math is ONE thing. SPECULATING on what the evidence means is NOT what I do...unlike yourself, Mr. Von Pein. The police report on the Walker shooting states that the bullet recovered was a STEEL jacketed round. The 6.5MM rounds fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano [not specifically "Carcano" bullets, as the bullets were NOT specific to a certain make of rifle, but to a certain caliber] were COPPER jacketed rounds. The bullet alleged to be from the Walker shooting as displayed in the WC exhibits in most certainly NOT a steel jacketed bullet.

So I can either conclude that the Dallas police were incompetent, and couldn't tell steel from copper...or I can question the obviously flawed Warren Commission reports and the methods used to arrive at their conclusions.

I DO NOT believe that Oswald is completely innocent in the JFK assassination...as you seem to assume I believe. I merely believe that the investigation was flawed, and that there are unanswered questions that the WC tried to sweep under the rug.

I further believe that JFK was, indeed, struck by three bullets fired from above and behind...if that's any consolation to you, Dave.

But don't ASSUME that I'm a conspiracy theorist, just because I don't follow you like a lap dog.

From above, "The 6.5MM rounds fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano [not specifically "Carcano" bullets, as the bullets were NOT specific to a certain make of rifle, but to a certain caliber]"

You have no idea what you are talking about.

6.5 mm Carcano rounds are most certainly 6.5mm rounds specifically for the 6.5MM Italian Mannlicher Carcano. They cannot be fired in any other 6.5 mm weapon.

[William Kelly]

Mark Knight is lousy at basic math. (Almost all conspiracy theorists are, of course.)

Basic math is ONE thing. SPECULATING on what the evidence means is NOT what I do...unlike yourself, Mr. Von Pein. The police report on the Walker shooting states that the bullet recovered was a STEEL jacketed round. The 6.5MM rounds fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano [not specifically "Carcano" bullets, as the bullets were NOT specific to a certain make of rifle, but to a certain caliber] were COPPER jacketed rounds. The bullet alleged to be from the Walker shooting as displayed in the WC exhibits in most certainly NOT a steel jacketed bullet.

So I can either conclude that the Dallas police were incompetent, and couldn't tell steel from copper...or I can question the obviously flawed Warren Commission reports and the methods used to arrive at their conclusions.

I DO NOT believe that Oswald is completely innocent in the JFK assassination...as you seem to assume I believe. I merely believe that the investigation was flawed, and that there are unanswered questions that the WC tried to sweep under the rug.

I further believe that JFK was, indeed, struck by three bullets fired from above and behind...if that's any consolation to you, Dave.

But don't ASSUME that I'm a conspiracy theorist, just because I don't follow you like a lap dog.

From above, "The 6.5MM rounds fired by the Mannlicher-Carcano [not specifically "Carcano" bullets, as the bullets were NOT specific to a certain make of rifle, but to a certain caliber]"

You have no idea what you are talking about.

6.5 mm Carcano rounds are most certainly 6.5mm rounds specifically for the 6.5MM Italian Mannlicher Carcano. They cannot be fired in any other 6.5 mm weapon.

I'd like a confirmation on this point. Can 6.5 mm rounds be fired from any 6.5 mm rifle, or are they specific to MC? Thanks to anyone who can supply source for this answer.

But the real question is WHERE Did They come from? Who supplied them to the Sixth Floor Sniper, whoever he was?

The mind of a conspiracy theorist wants to know where, while the mind of a Lone Nutter doesn't care.

BK

[David Von Pein]

6.5 mm Carcano rounds are most certainly 6.5mm rounds specifically for the 6.5MM Italian Mannlicher Carcano. They cannot be fired in any other 6.5 mm weapon.

Indeed, Todd. And this can be confirmed by just looking at the markings on the outside of any of the four lots of Western Cartridge bullets that are connected to the JFK case (and Oswald's C2766 rifle). Here's a photo of boxes from all four lots, with the words "Mannlicher-Carcano" clearly printed on each box:

Edited February 28, 2011 by David Von Pein

[James Marzano]

6.5 mm Carcano rounds are most certainly 6.5mm rounds specifically for the 6.5MM Italian Mannlicher Carcano. They cannot be fired in any other 6.5 mm weapon.

Indeed, Todd. And this can be confirmed by just looking at the markings on the outside of any of the four lots of Western Cartridge bullets that are connected to the JFK case (and Oswald's C2766 rifle). Here's a photo of boxes from all four lots, with the words "Mannlicher-Carcano" clearly printed on each box:

I see 4 boxes of bullets.... How do these 4 boxes of Western Cartridge bullets connect to the JFK case and Oswald's C2766 rifle?