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More problems for the Warrenati: The deposit slip


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The "WRONG DATE ON THE EXTRA COPY OF THE DEPOSIT SLIP" is just one more example (among dozens of others) where the conspiracy theorists SHOULD be asking themselves the following logical question:

WHAT THE HELL WERE THE CONSPIRATORS THINKING WHEN THEY DID SOMETHING THIS STUPID -- LIKE PUTTING A FEBRUARY 15 DATE ON A DEPOSIT TICKET THAT THE PLOTTERS HAD TO HAVE KNOWN FROM THE GET-GO WAS A DEPOSIT THAT NEEDED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE MARCH 13 KLEIN'S DEPOSIT --- OR LIKE PLANTING A MAUSER RIFLE IN THE BOOK DEPOSITORY, WHEN THEY CERTAINLY MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT THEIR PATSY NAMED OSWALD DIDN'T OWN A MAUSER--HE OWNED A MANNLICHER-CARCANO?

Errors such as that one with the incorrect date on the deposit ticket are errors that are MUCH easier to associate with normal fallible human errors than they are associated with any kind of perceived "plot" that has been PRE-arranged by a group of conspirators for the purpose of faking evidence in the JFK murder case.

Why is this so?

Because if that February 15 date was really written there by a person who deliberately was trying to create a fake and false paper trail to Rifle C2766 (and, hence, incriminate a "patsy" named Lee Harvey Oswald), then the plotters would have KNOWN from the start that they would need to be very very careful when placing all of this FORGED EVIDENCE into the record, and they would make doubly certain to cross every T and dot every I in the proper places.

And they would have also known to have placed the proper bank stamps on the documents in question too (or they SHOULD have factored that detail into their "Let's Frame Oswald" ruse, unless all of these plotters, to a man, were brainless morons).

The fact that we have discrepancies like the "Feb. 15" deposit slip existing in the record at all is, in my opinion, more of a sign of NO CONSPIRACY connected with items like that deposit slip than it is with the type of vast "Every Document Is Phony" plot that a lot of conspiracy theorists believe in today.

My last paragraph is either pretty accurate...or: your patsy-framers screwed up YET AGAIN with a piece of evidence in this case.

How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow your patsy-framers before you put on the brakes and realize that such discrepancies would NOT EXIST AT ALL if there really was a concerted effort by a band of plotters to doctor all of the evidence in the JFK case?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/03/doctored-evidence-or-human-errors.html

Edited by David Von Pein
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How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow

That's a good question, Dave.

How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow Oswald for him to be caught in record time by the equally reckless, idiotic and error ridden DPD?

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The "WRONG DATE ON THE EXTRA COPY OF THE DEPOSIT SLIP" is just one more example (among dozens of others) where the conspiracy theorists SHOULD be asking themselves the following logical question:

WHAT THE HELL WERE THE CONSPIRATORS THINKING WHEN THEY DID SOMETHING THIS STUPID -- LIKE PUTTING A FEBRUARY 15 DATE ON A DEPOSIT TICKET THAT THE PLOTTERS **HAD TO HAVE KNOWN FROM THE GET-GO** WAS A DEPOSIT THAT NEEDED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE MARCH 13 KLEIN'S DEPOSIT??

Errors such as that one with the incorrect date on the deposit ticket are errors that are MUCH easier to associate with normal fallible human errors than they are associated with any kind of perceived "plot" that has been PRE-arranged by a group of conspirators for the purpose of faking evidence in the JFK murder case.

Why is this so?

Because if that February 15 date was really written there by a person who deliberately was trying to create a fake and false paper trail to Rifle C2766 (and, hence, incriminate a "patsy" named Lee Harvey Oswald), and if this deception was being carried out at some point AFTER the assassination of President Kennedy and not BEFORE November 22 (as most CTers believe was the case)....then the plotters would have KNOWN from the start that they would need to be very very careful when placing all of this FORGED EVIDENCE into the record, and they would make doubly certain to cross every T and dot every I in the proper places.

And they would have also known to have placed the proper bank stamps on the documents in question too (or they SHOULD have factored that detail into their "Let's Frame Oswald" ruse, unless all of these plotters, to a man, were brainless morons).

The fact that we have discrepancies like the "Feb. 15" deposit slip existing in the record at all is, in my opinion, more of a sign of NO CONSPIRACY connected with items like that deposit slip than it is with the type of vast "Every Document Is Phony" plot that a lot of conspiracy theorists believe in today.

My last paragraph is either pretty accurate...or: your patsy-framers screwed up YET AGAIN with a piece of evidence in this case.

How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow your patsy-framers before you put on the brakes and realize that such discrepancies would NOT EXIST AT ALL if there really was a concerted effort by a band of plotters to doctor all of the evidence in the JFK case?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/03/doctored-evidence-or-human-errors.html

Did I mention the word "conspirators" ? I believe that I pointed out that the deposit slip had the wrong date and was missing the bank stamp, but I don't believe that I used the word "conspirators".

You really need to calm down, David.

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How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow Oswald...?

Oswald did some stupid things on 11/22, yes. But he accomplished his main goal--killing the President. That was the most important thing.

And I think it's a pretty good guess to say that Oswald (after accomplishing his goal of murdering the Chief Executive) never expected to live to see the November 23rd dawn.

He, of course, could easily have been shot dead in the Texas Theater by any number of armed policemen. So, living for an extra two days must have been looked upon as a nice extra bonus from Lee Harvey's point-of-view.

Edited by David Von Pein
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Did I mention the word "conspirators"? I believe that I pointed out that the deposit slip had the wrong date and was missing the bank stamp, but I don't believe that I used the word "conspirators".

Whew! Thank goodness you straightened me out on that, Gil!

It's good to know that your whole thread here wasn't designed to point a finger of guilt at someone who might have been tampering with the evidence in the case of a murdered President.

So, if it wasn't a "conspirator" (or "cover-up" operative) who was doctoring the paper trail to C2766....then I assume you, Gil, must make allowances for the "2-15-63" date on the extra copy of the Klein's deposit ticket being an innocent, ordinary mistake by the Klein's employees. Correct?

Edited by David Von Pein
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Did I mention the word "conspirators" ? I believe that I pointed out that the deposit slip had the wrong date and was missing the bank stamp, but I don't believe that I used the word "conspirators".

You really need to calm down, David.

Let me give you folks MY TAKE on what we're looking at in Waldman 10.

I believe that we're looking at TWO documents, the first is the February 15, 1963 deposit slip with a total of $ 13,857.98 in deposits from Klein's sporting goods to be deposited into their account in the First National Bank of Chicago. ( 21 H 706 )

The second is the bank statement, mailed to Klein's ONE MONTH LATER, dated March 13, 1963 and listing all of the checks and money orders deposited on 2/15. If Klein's received their bank statements ending the 13th of the month, then a deposit on the 15th of the preceding month would not show up until the following 13th's statement.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0365b.htm

The total on the bank statement is the same $ 13,857.98, however, there is at least one other deposit listed ( 21 H 707 ) in Waldman 10 for the sum of $ 2,116.91. In that deposit the second $ 21.45 is listed.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0366a.htm

That is, I believe, why the deposit has two different dates. One is for the actual deposit and the other is for the bank statement received by Klein's the following month. If true, then the FBI took a bank deposit for February 15th, 1963 that included TWO items for $ 21.45 and tried to pass one of them off as a deposit of the "Hidell" money order.

It would have been very easy for them to do.

The First National Bank of Chicago, Klein's bank, did not keep microfilm records of money orders. ( CD 7, pg. 192 ) That being the case, there would have been no microfilm record of either of the $ 21.45 money orders.

In addition, the $21.45 entry on the "3/13/63 deposit" was in fact an American Express Money Order, not the "Hidell" postal money order as the FBI claimed.

(. ibid. )

It seems to me, looking at the evidence, that Klein's never had a deposit of

$ 21.45 in March of 1963 but had 2 in February.

IMO, the deposit slip was microfilmed BEFORE the deposit was made, which means it was microfilmed before the bank got a chance to stamp it. Although I'm hardpressed to explain WHY Klein's would microfilm the deposit slip WITHOUT the bank stamp rather than with it, keep in mind that unlike the money order, which was an original document that was NEVER STAMPED BY ANYBODY, this document was a COPY.

The problem with a February deposit, obviously, was that neither of the deposits could have been a "Hidell" postal money order with a postal stamp of 3/12. So the FBI took the bank statement dated 3/13/63, which was actually for the 2/15 deposit, and claimed that it was a 3/13 deposit.

No documents had to be altered by "conspirators", David.

The FBI just took A and passed it off as B.

That's my two cents worth.

Edited by Gil Jesus
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But Waldman 10 shows TWO "3-13-63" dates at the bottom of the columns for the itemized listing of the Klein's bulk deposit. And the grand total on BOTH documents (the itemized list and the "Feb 15" deposit ticket) is identical, which would indicate that both documents are referring to the same bulk deposit:

WH_Vol21_0365b.jpg

Edited by David Von Pein
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But Waldman 10 shows TWO "3-13-63" dates at the bottom of the columns for the itemized listing of the Klein's bulk deposit. And the grand total on BOTH documents (the itemized list and the "Feb 15" deposit ticket) is identical, which would indicate we're not talking about two different dates of deposit:

Your reading comprehension is atrocious, David.

Nobody said there were two different deposits.

I said that the DEPOSIT was made on 2/15/63 and that the "bulk list" is a BANK STATEMENT of the 2/15 deposit that was mailed to Klein's on 3/13/63. They're the SAME AMOUNT because one is Klein's telling the bank what it's depositing and the other is the bank confirming the amount with Klein's 30 days later.

They had to wait for those checks to clear, David.

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It seems to me, looking at the evidence, that Klein's never had a deposit of $21.45 in March of 1963, but had 2 in February.

Huh?

Are you saying, Gil, that there are public records available for EVERY Klein's bank deposit for both the months of February and March of 1963? For every day of each of those months?

Please tell me where I can find those extensive Klein's records. I'd like to see them. You certainly aren't talking about any of the "Waldman Exhibits". Where did you get such detailed info on the Klein's deposits for two complete months?

It seems to me, looking at the evidence, that Klein's never had a deposit of $21.45 in March of 1963, but had 2 in February.

See my following post below for proof that Gil is wrong about this.

Edited by David Von Pein
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ADDENDUM REGARDING THE DATE THAT KLEIN'S RECEIVED LEE OSWALD'S MONEY ORDER:

Here's a fact I had forgotten about until looking once again at Waldman Exhibit No. 7:

There is a date stamped at the very top of Waldman No. 7 (which is the Klein's order form for Oswald's rifle order)....and the date is "Mar. 13, '63", which is the date that Oswald's money order passed through the Klein's cash register (per William Waldman's testimony, below):

DAVID BELIN -- "Is there anything which indicates in what form you received the money?"

WILLIAMS WALDMAN -- "Yes; below the amount is shown the letters "MO" designating money order."

MR. BELIN -- "Now, I see the extreme top of this microfilm, the date, March 13, 1963; to what does that refer?"

MR. WALDMAN -- "This is an imprint made by our cash register indicating that the remittance received from the customer was passed through our register on that date."

WH_Vol21_0364a.jpg

Edited by David Von Pein
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How many stupid, reckless, idiotic errors do you allow Oswald...?

Oswald did some stupid things on 11/22, yes. But he accomplished his main goal--killing the President. That was the most important thing.

And I think it's a pretty good guess to say that Oswald (after accomplishing his goal of murdering the Chief Executive) never expected to live to see the November 23rd dawn.

He, of course, could easily have been shot dead in the Texas Theater by any number of armed policemen. So, living for an extra two days must have been looked upon as a nice extra bonus from Lee Harvey's point-of-view.

Hi Dave,

Can you tell me when Oswald decided that he wanted to kill the President, and tell me why he wanted the president dead?

Thanks,

BK

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Can you tell me when Oswald decided that he wanted to kill the President, and tell me why he wanted the president dead?

No, I sure can't.

Unfortunately, Lee wasn't kind enough to supply the DPD with that info prior to 11:21 AM CST on 11/24/63.

Sorry.

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Can you tell me when Oswald decided that he wanted to kill the President, and tell me why he wanted the president dead?

No, I sure can't.

Unfortunately, Lee wasn't kind enough to supply the DPD with that info prior to 11:21 AM CST on 11/24/63.

Sorry.

You mean the best law enforcement and national security experts from a dozen agencies, including the DPD, the FBI, Secret Service, Post Office, CIA, DOD,...et al.... not only couldn't secure the life of the president, when they got the guy who outfoxed them, they couldn't determine when he decided to do the dirty deed, and why he decided to do it, even though they had him for two days and couldn't get it out of him?

And yet, you say he wasn't a good assassin, but was a really no-good, wife-beating loser, who didn't have any friends and couldn't hold a job?

And it isn't a matter of history or truth or justice that we really have to know when he decided to kill the president and why, or how he got the gun from the Post Office, or where he got the ammo, or how come nobody can actually place him at the window at the time, or why he was allowed to be killed while in police custody, as these are all questions that are lost to history and we'll never know?

And it really isn't a matter of national security to determine the answers to any of these questions.

Is that the way you say it goes down, Dave?

Thanks for sticking around here and taking all this abuse,

BK

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