Pamela Brown Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 23 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: Pamela, I have kept up with almost all your forum postings since I have been a member myself. You were always the resident expert on the JFK limo and related subjects. I also recall your many postings about JVB. I totally understood when you turned direction regards your take on her. JVB is a tough one to figure. What reading I have done on her has me torn ... but just not enough to totally dismiss her. She's VERY smart for sure. I sense she is extremely strong willed and overbearing at times. Obviously too strong for many. Her sister Debbee ( I really don't know a lot about her ) seems much more practical and down to earth and not overbearing. Yet, this sister has stood by her sister Judyth throughout her extremely controversial saga. If true, the Reiley Coffee connection between Baker and Lee Oswald by itself is enough for me to keep at least some interest in the entire JVB story, even if 80% to 90% of it is questionable to very questionable. I completely understand. There is a part of me that wanted Judyth to be telling the truth. Despite the carnage she had already caused in the research community by 2003, when she contacted me, I hoped that by doing my best for her and keeping an open mind that she would appreciate that. That didn't happen. It was always 'what have you done for me lately.' What did happen was that she claimed I believed her, and then asked why I did not ask her any questions. She played the diva the entire time. And the victim. I even sent her money at one point. She did offer to repay it, to her credit, but I said it was a gift. Judyth is a very powerful person and writer. Also clever and very manipulative, up close. I totally get how people are mesmerized by her and her story. I had come, by that time, to see Marina as a snake-in-the-grass. Agent Hosty had already told me he saw her as a sleeper agent whose duty it was to track and control Lee. To see Lee and Judyth as innocent victims of the treacherous agendas surrounding them was not difficult for me. There were also times when Marina complained she didn't know where Lee was in NOLA. Well...aHem...I had a good explanation for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: I spoke with Anna Lewis when I was involved with Judyth's camp. By the time I talked with her, she had been pretty much threatened into silence. She supported Judyth's statement that she had seen Judyth and Lee at Mancini's, the restaurant where she worked. But she said it in a rote manner. I did not know what to think. The mystery continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 18 hours ago, Joe Bauer said: The mystery continues. Indeed it does. To make matters even more interesting, Anna was the wife of David Lewis, whom Garrison interviewed: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/G Disk/Garrison Jim/Garrison Jim Clips Duplicate New Orleans/Item 11.pdf Apparently, David did not say anything about Judyth and Lee to Garrison. In fact, there is no mention of Judyth in anything connected to David. And then, when I asked Judyth on more than one occasion why she did not go running to Garrison with her story, she gave me a boatload of excuses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Another mysterious factor in my experience with Judyth was Jim Fetzer. Fetzer set his sights on me the minute I entered the JFK research community online in the late '90's. He attacked me viciously. Ironically, I had a family member at UMD where he was on the faculty. He was using their email address to harass me. His acolytes did the same. It made no sense to me why I was under attack for my limo research. But that was the state of my life back then. However, the minute I became involved with Judyth, Fetzer backed off. He could not have been more gentlemanly. As my time went on as a member of Judyth's camp, Judyth said to me repeatedly, "I was told you can't be trusted." "By whom?" I asked. She never said. I think it was Fetzer who got Judyth to contact me in the first place. I think the goal was to discredit my limo research because I had a connection to Judyth. So, if we're looking at Judyth and McAdams as two peas in a pod, I would add Fetzer into the mix. I wouldn't be surprised to discover they are/were all agents of some ilk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hilliard Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Dave Reitzes Mentioned a few times in this thread as I searched the name. For those who haven't seen the link --- One Hundred Errors of Fact and Judgment in Oliver Stone's JFK Movie.. https://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html Why not 101 errors? I'm sure another misspelled name could have been found 🤣 I read one post where a member wished that Reitzes would join the forum so he could trash the crap out of him [an easy enough task] One can find many ways to preach to the choir but in no way.. can they preach to a fire hydrant. Supporters for the official story are falling along the side of the highway like so much road kill. Pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 15 hours ago, Karl Hilliard said: Dave Reitzes Mentioned a few times in this thread as I searched the name. For those who haven't seen the link --- One Hundred Errors of Fact and Judgment in Oliver Stone's JFK Movie.. https://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html Why not 101 errors? I'm sure another misspelled name could have been found 🤣 I read one post where a member wished that Reitzes would join the forum so he could trash the crap out of him [an easy enough task] One can find many ways to preach to the choir but in no way.. can they preach to a fire hydrant. Supporters for the official story are falling along the side of the highway like so much road kill. Pity. I wouldn't get too clinical about all this...it was Stone who claimed JFK was myth/countermyth to the WCR...JFK is his vision of the events...some actual, some fictional... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hilliard Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: I wouldn't get too clinical about all this...it was Stone who claimed JFK was myth/countermyth to the WCR...JFK is his vision of the events...some actual, some fictional... That certainly must not have been clear to Mr Reitzes and all the other Oliver Stone critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 45 minutes ago, Karl Hilliard said: That certainly must not have been clear to Mr Reitzes and all the other Oliver Stone critics. Perhaps you could think of it as countering the counter-myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 4:12 PM, Karl Hilliard said: That certainly must not have been clear to Mr Reitzes and all the other Oliver Stone critics. The JFK screenplay, even before the movie came out, was extremely controversial, because it mixed history with created characters and took artistic liberty. Harold Weisberg, for one, was really unhappy with it. But as long as we view the film as Stone's vision, it works. And to this day, I think the first half of JFK is the most riveting footage I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pamela Brown said: The JFK screenplay, even before the movie came out, was extremely controversial, because it mixed history with created characters and took artistic liberty. Harold Weisberg, for one, was really unhappy with it. But as long as we view the film as Stone's vision, it works. And to this day, I think the first half of JFK is the most riveting footage I have ever seen. My wife and I went to see "JFK" in our local theater as soon as it arrived. The line to get in was huge. There wasn't an open seat by the beginning of the film. The average age of the audience was right about mine (42) with a mix of younger and older as well. Pamela, you are so right-on regards the film's first half being riveting. I've been to over 1,000 theater films in my life. The entire audience was riveted like I have never seen before. From the very beginning the tight and building louder and louder military drum rolls accompanying the ominous black and white real-life flash-back film footage scenes of a smiling JFK and Jackie in the limo waving at the crowds while approaching and then arriving at Dealey Plaza and turning down Elm Street to meet their horrific fate had you gripping your seat arm rests sensing the brutal nightmare that was about to happen ... then BOOM! When the JFK head shot rang out there was an audible gasp/cry through out the audience. Most older Americans ( alive and witness to the events of 11/22/1963 and 11/24/1963 ) had been holding in a deep, disturbing and uncomfortable feeling of doubt and suspicion about the JFK/Oswald murders for 28 years. Stone's film allowed them to revisit those long held feelings in an incredibly powerful film creation way. Edited September 20, 2022 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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