Mary Moorman, age 78, to speak on JFK assassination

[Bernice Moore]

In the Bronson slide (above), I've been wondering recently who the two women in black dresses are who are located to the left (east) of the Newman family? Anybody know?

no names, the woman have been called the Bronson twins,in the photo research, and Pat yes, as seen here in Bronson DCM is in the street...a close up shows him holding up a finger signal or a closed fist signal i believe..which i have read in military signals is to stop, after which the limo did hesitate and slowed right down, and or stopped for a few seconds,some believe it was a signal to Greer, after which the head shot was accomplished... .fwiw.. David of course you believe the snappy zappy to be real, what else ?? omg here she is again..

Jean Hill & Mary Moorman and the polaroid pictures Edited May 27, 2011 by Bernice Moore

[Bernice Moore]

John ''One of the themes of the May 24 interview, it seemed to me, was discrediting Jean Hill. I know many find her a problematic witness. I don’t have a strong opinion about her. Haven’t read The Last Dissenting Witness."" iMO there has been much of using Mary's information to discredit Jean Hill's, too much so, thereby using both of them to bolster up, whomevers theory of what happened, Mary has been treated very gently i shall put it, imo, in the research, this i think is the first time i have seen a discussion on the information that Mary also as many witnesses did, down through the years changed part of her recall, they are not allowed to change one sylable, apparently, and some will jump immediately in to protect her with their excuses of the why, as both the zappy film and the moorman photo's information is at stake, and again no new information uncovered can be allowed, all must stay as set in cement, no further research it seems is allowed.if you do, be prepared to be downed..I think it was David that mentioned about Jack, I imagine he's peaking in, if not he will be soon, and hopefully, his many cents will be very welcome, to see an old warrior back and in shape, get well soon Jack, missing you, and needing you..best b

[Bernice Moore]

PAT here is an older thread on DCM http://educationforu...pic=8095&st=105

Edited May 27, 2011 by Bernice Moore

[John Kelin]

A shame Jack White couldn't have been at Mary's interview, too.

Is the Moorman interview and the other JFK events up on the iantique website as podcasts? I can't find them on the site, and missed them all live.

I don't find the iantiques site very intuitive or easy to navigate.

Go here:

http://www.iantique.com/videos

...and most of the JFK shows, including the Moorman one, should be in a group of about ten videos. For some reason the first JFK show is not there.

You might have to join the site. I think I did. It's free.

Alternately, Joe Backes has linked to the Moorman show from his blog:

http://justiceforkennedy.blogspot.com/2011/05/mary-moorman-interview.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JusticeForKennedy+%28Justice+For+Kennedy%29

[David G. Healy]

my comments: dgh: highlighted in BOLD each comment ending with ****

The following is presented for whatever it may be worth.

The Brass Armadillo, where Mary Ann Moorman’s interview took place on May 24, is only about half an hour from where I live, so I went down there for the webcast.

dgh: thank you for taking the time John to attend and more importantly, do a little followup. A few questions if you please. Why this webcast in the first place? Any comment regarding that? Is the Moorman 5 photo for sale? Perhaps to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the assassination (why its not called 50 years since that tragic event, I'll never know)?

And, to the best of my knowledge, the 6th Floor Museum is the caretaker of the Moorman Photo today, correct?

David Lifton has a few words concerning this same subject matter in A Pig's Blanket (Great Zapruder Film HOAX, edited by Dr. Jim Fetzer) concerning one on-location video session with Mary Moorman (for a History Channel presentation a few years back with Coach Gary Mack present in Dealey Plaza, during that interview****

By now the interview has been posted to the iantique website, so I won’t belabor any of that. But I did get to talk with Mrs. Moorman for a few minutes afterward.

First, though, I should point out I’ve never been interested in where she was standing when she took her famous photo, so my questions about that were probably not too incisive.

dgh: based on what I see below, you did a damn good job with your "probably not too incisive." ***

During the webcast, Moorman told Gary Stover that she stepped into the street twice, to take pictures of two motorcycle cops in the motorcade, both of whom she knew. Stover then asked if she stepped into the street for her famous photo. My scribbled notes have her replying, “I’m pretty sure I stepped back just on the very edge of the curb to get on the grass.”

dgh: "I'm pretty sure I stepped back...?" Conflicting (over time) eye witness comments, a TV documentary program producers worst nightmare, or, the Moorman5 street/grass debate: a canard used to cover something else up, perhaps problems with the Zapruder Film? ****

I thought that was a little ambiguous. She stepped back before or after taking the picture? Stepped back after taking one of the cop photos? So after the webcast, I asked her about this explicitly. She answered that she took the picture from the curb, adding that between the presidential limo and the motorcycle cops there wasn’t a lot of room in the street. It wasn’t safe.

dgh: safe? "IF"there was a shot from the Grassy Knoll, Mary Moorman was in a field of fire, she could of been shot and killed herself... I suspect, her "It wasn't safe" comment, had nothing to do the limo coming down Elm Street.****

One of the themes of the May 24 interview, it seemed to me, was discrediting Jean Hill. I know many find her a problematic witness. I don’t have a strong opinion about her. Haven’t read The Last Dissenting Witness.

dgh:I suspect the unspoken theme of the May 24th interview is: the Moorman5 will be for sale or up for bid, in the very near future! And this was pure hucksterism... ****

I was especially interested in comparing the Hill and Moorman accounts of being taken to that press room by Jim Featherstone. In particular, I wanted to ask her about Jean Hill’s statement, which I’d just re-read in the WC volumes.

I’d scrawled an abridged version into my notes, which I read to Mrs. Moorman. Jean Hill is telling the WC about her encounter with a man she took to be a Secret Service agent. “They keep saying three shots,” she testified telling this man. “I said, I know I heard more…he said, ‘Mrs. Hill, we heard more shots too, but we have three wounds and we have three bullets, three shots is all that we are willing to say right now.’” [WC vol. 6, pp. 220-21.]

Moorman told me she had no recollection of this exchange. But she acknowledged the scene was very chaotic. She could have missed it.

dgh: of course she didn't have recollection of the exchange. Probably not in that days script! BTW, was a representative of 6th Floor Museum present for the 24th festivities? Was any background established during this so-called "interview" as to Ms. Moorman's current living situation, physical, medical etc?

I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE AS TO WHY MS. MOORMAN WAS PLACED IN FRONT OF A CAMERA on the 24th, PERIOD. Did she say why she consented to the interview that day (May 24th 2011)? SHAMEFUL!

Thanks again for your attendance, John. My questions if you will... -- David Healy ****

If you listen closely to her interview, her statements are far more damaging to the "official" story than they are to conspiracy theories, beyond the one holding that she was in the street and that this proves the Z-film was fake. 1. She says she heard shots AFTER the head shot. 2. She says the last shots were bunched together. If either of these statements are true, it means the story pushed by most contemporary historians--not to mention most single-assassin theorists--is nonsense.

Look on the sunny side...LOL

*******************************

Equally important is her observation on May 24 that the limo slowed almost to a stop right after the fusillade.

the above needs to be followed up on too! (emphasis added in quote: mine) Thanks again to John Klein for providing the above information. see this thread post #59

Edited May 27, 2011 by David G. Healy

[Pat Speer]

my comments: dgh: highlighted in BOLD each comment ending with ****

The following is presented for whatever it may be worth.

The Brass Armadillo, where Mary Ann Moorman’s interview took place on May 24, is only about half an hour from where I live, so I went down there for the webcast.

dgh: thank you for taking the time John to attend and more importantly, do a little followup. A few questions if you please. Why this webcast in the first place? Any comment regarding that? Is the Moorman 5 photo for sale? Perhaps to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the assassination (why its not called 50 years since that tragic event, I'll never know)?

And, to the best of my knowledge, the 6th Floor Museum is the caretaker of the Moorman Photo today, correct?

David Lifton has a few words concerning this same subject matter in A Pig's Blanket (Great Zapruder Film HOAX, edited by Dr. Jim Fetzer) concerning one on-location video session with Mary Moorman (for a History Channel presentation a few years back with Coach Gary Mack present in Dealey Plaza, during that interview****

By now the interview has been posted to the iantique website, so I won’t belabor any of that. But I did get to talk with Mrs. Moorman for a few minutes afterward.

First, though, I should point out I’ve never been interested in where she was standing when she took her famous photo, so my questions about that were probably not too incisive.

dgh: based on what I see below, you did a damn good job with your "probably not too incisive." ***

During the webcast, Moorman told Gary Stover that she stepped into the street twice, to take pictures of two motorcycle cops in the motorcade, both of whom she knew. Stover then asked if she stepped into the street for her famous photo. My scribbled notes have her replying, “I’m pretty sure I stepped back just on the very edge of the curb to get on the grass.”

dgh: "I'm pretty sure I stepped back...?" Conflicting (over time) eye witness comments, a TV documentary program producers worst nightmare, or, the Moorman5 street/grass debate: a canard used to cover something else up, perhaps problems with the Zapruder Film? ****

I thought that was a little ambiguous. She stepped back before or after taking the picture? Stepped back after taking one of the cop photos? So after the webcast, I asked her about this explicitly. She answered that she took the picture from the curb, adding that between the presidential limo and the motorcycle cops there wasn’t a lot of room in the street. It wasn’t safe.

dgh: safe? "IF"there was a shot from the Grassy Knoll, Mary Moorman was in a field of fire, she could of been shot and killed herself... I suspect, her "It wasn't safe" comment, had nothing to do the limo coming down Elm Street.****

One of the themes of the May 24 interview, it seemed to me, was discrediting Jean Hill. I know many find her a problematic witness. I don’t have a strong opinion about her. Haven’t read The Last Dissenting Witness.

dgh:I suspect the unspoken theme of the May 24th interview is: the Moorman5 will be for sale or up for bid, in the very near future! And this was pure hucksterism... ****

I was especially interested in comparing the Hill and Moorman accounts of being taken to that press room by Jim Featherstone. In particular, I wanted to ask her about Jean Hill’s statement, which I’d just re-read in the WC volumes.

I’d scrawled an abridged version into my notes, which I read to Mrs. Moorman. Jean Hill is telling the WC about her encounter with a man she took to be a Secret Service agent. “They keep saying three shots,” she testified telling this man. “I said, I know I heard more…he said, ‘Mrs. Hill, we heard more shots too, but we have three wounds and we have three bullets, three shots is all that we are willing to say right now.’” [WC vol. 6, pp. 220-21.]

Moorman told me she had no recollection of this exchange. But she acknowledged the scene was very chaotic. She could have missed it.

dgh: of course she didn't have recollection of the exchange. Probably not in that days script! BTW, was a representative of 6th Floor Museum present for the 24th festivities? Was any background established during this so-called "interview" as to Ms. Moorman's current living situation, physical, medical etc?

I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE AS TO WHY MS. MOORMAN WAS PLACED IN FRONT OF A CAMERA on the 24th, PERIOD. Did she say why she consented to the interview that day (May 24th 2011)? SHAMEFUL!

Thanks again for your attendance, John. My questions if you will... -- David Healy ****

If you listen closely to her interview, her statements are far more damaging to the "official" story than they are to conspiracy theories, beyond the one holding that she was in the street and that this proves the Z-film was fake. 1. She says she heard shots AFTER the head shot. 2. She says the last shots were bunched together. If either of these statements are true, it means the story pushed by most contemporary historians--not to mention most single-assassin theorists--is nonsense.

Look on the sunny side...LOL

*******************************

Equally important is her observation on May 24 that the limo slowed almost to a stop right after the fusillade.

the above needs to be followed up on too! (emphasis added in quote: mine) Thanks again to John Klein for providing the above information. see this thread post #59

You'll also be glad to hear that when asked point blank if the Z-film corresponds to her recollections, Mary replied: "Not really. I appreciate it...It does show that I was there."

Still think she was bought off?

(5-24-11 interview conducted live on iantique.com) (When asked if she'd stepped out into the street to take a photograph of Motorcycle Officer McBride, before Kennedy's arrival) "Yes." (When asked if she'd stepped out into the street to take a picture of a second Motorcycle officer, George Lumpkin) "Yes, I did, because he was in the middle of the street." (When describing the shooting) "I had been in the street to take the picture of Lumpkin. When the limousine turned the corner, it was coming towards me and I focused--I don't know if I focused--but I looked in the camera to watch the car as it approached, and uh looking up the area, waiting for him to get close enough and Jean hollered 'Mr. President look this way, we want to take a picture!' As I thought he was where I wanted it to be, I snapped the picture. And at the same time I snapped the picture I heard a sound. And I just uh, I had my picture taken, I was not holding the camera in front of my face. And I heard two more sounds, which I thought were firecrackers." (When asked if she'd stepped into the street to take the photo of Kennedy) "I'm pretty sure that I had stepped back just onto the very edge of the curb, to get off the street, onto the grass." (When asked again about the first shot) "I heard that while the camera was still up in my face. I heard a noise. I heard a sound." (When asked about this shot in comparison to her taking her picture.) "At the same time... Seconds or...awfully quick." (When asked if she heard a second shot.) "I did. Immediately. It was like Pow...Pow Pow. Y'know it was that quick. And, this second shot, I was looking at this man, and my thought was 'I saw his hair jump.' Well, it was his head, y'know, the hair." (When asked if she thought he'd been hit by the first shot) "Yes." (And the second shot.) "Not sure about the second shot other than that I did see something happen to him." (When asked about a third shot.) "I heard three shots." (When asked to confirm that she didn't hear the two shots prior to the head shot described by most writers) "That's right. I guess not. And if there was a first shot, I don't think I would stand there and then take a picture, knowing that I'd heard something." (When asked if she could have been mistaken about the sounds.) "Well, yes, I thought they were firecrackers. I did not know there was a gunshot, no." (When asked if the motorcycles had been backfiring) "No." (When asked if the limo slowed down.) "It slowed down almost if not to a stop, and I saw Jackie. She hollered 'Oh, my God, he's been shot!' I heard that. And I saw her start to climb out over that car." (When asked when the limo slowed down) "After all the shots. There was no more shots." (When asked if she had a sense where the shots had come from.) "I did not." (When asked if she'd seen any shots hit the windshield.) "No, I did not. (Or the pavement.) "No, I did not." (When asked if she had a sense that some of what she'd heard were echoes.) "No, I didn't. I'm not accustomed to hearing shots." (When asked about Jean Hill's claim in her book that a SS agent stole Mary's photos from her--Jean Hill's--pocket.) "It didn't happen." (When asked whether Jean Hill had ever mentioned to her that she'd seen smoke or a man with a rifle on the grassy knoll--as she was later to claim.) "No, she did not." (When asked if she'd noticed anything on 11-22-63 that she now considers suspicious.) "I have no idea." (When asked why she didn't testify before the Warren Commission) "I just told them that I'd turned my ankle and couldn't go, and I never heard from them ever again." (On whether she thinks the Zapruder film coincides with her recollections) "Not really. I appreciate it...It does show that I was there." (If she has an opinion on whether there was more than one shooter.) "No. But I believe there's a whole lot more to the story than what's been told. I don't know about how many shooters or don't really care other than to know for sure what's happened."

Edited May 27, 2011 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

Here are some random thoughts regarding Mary Moorman's belief that the FIRST shot (of 3 or 4 total that she said she heard) hit JFK in the head:

If the first shot had been the head shot, then (logically) it would not make very much sense for there to have been any more shots AFTER the fatal blow to the President's head--let alone MULTIPLE additional shots being fired into the car.

And here's another point to be made on this (probably even a better logical point than the one I just made above) -- As we can see via the Zapruder Film, right after JFK was struck in the head, his head is moving around violently (which, it would seem to me, would have presented a difficult situation for any gunman at that exact point in time, because his head would have been very difficult to keep in the gunman's sights because of its violent movement backward after Z313).

And we can also see in the Z-Film that JFK crumples OUT OF SIGHT of ANY gunman in Dealey Plaza within just seconds of the Z313 head shot.

So my next logical question for Ms. Moorman (or anyone else who contends that gunmen were still popping away at President Kennedy by firing MULTIPLE SHOTS after Z313) -- What were those gunmen shooting at at that point in time? Jackie? Kellerman? James Tague? Because if it was more than just a second or two after Z313, and shots were still being fired in Dealey Plaza, then those gunmen were certainly not going to have a very clear shot of John F. Kennedy. That's for sure.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/05/mary-moorman-interview.html

[John Kelin]

Mary Ann Moorman did not state in the May 24 interview that the head shot was the first shot. She stated that the head shot was the first one that she heard.

Big difference.

Here are some random thoughts regarding Mary Moorman's belief that the FIRST shot (of 3 or 4 total that she said she heard) hit JFK in the head:

If the first shot had been the head shot, then (logically) it would not make very much sense for there to have been any more shots AFTER the fatal blow to the President's head--let alone MULTIPLE additional shots being fired into the car.

And here's another point to be made on this (probably even a better logical point than the one I just made above) -- As we can see via the Zapruder Film, right after JFK was struck in the head, his head is moving around violently (which, it would seem to me, would have presented a difficult situation for any gunman at that exact point in time, because his head would have been very difficult to keep in the gunman's sights because of its violent movement backward after Z313).

And we can also see in the Z-Film that JFK crumples OUT OF SIGHT of ANY gunman in Dealey Plaza within just seconds of the Z313 head shot.

So my next logical question for Ms. Moorman (or anyone else who contends that gunmen were still popping away at President Kennedy by firing MULTIPLE SHOTS after Z313) -- What were those gunmen shooting at at that point in time? Jackie? Kellerman? James Tague? Because if it was more than just a second or two after Z313, and shots were still being fired in Dealey Plaza, then those gunmen were certainly not going to have a very clear shot of John F. Kennedy. That's for sure.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/05/mary-moorman-interview.html

[David Von Pein]

Mary Ann Moorman did not state in the May 24 interview that the head shot was the first shot. She stated that the head shot was the first one that she heard.

True. But that doesn't change the points I was making in my previous post re Mary Ann hearing multiple shots after the head shot.

Edited May 28, 2011 by David Von Pein

[John Kelin]

According to my notes of May 24, Moorman said the first shot was followed by two more in quick succession.

This is a fusillade that was over in seconds. So, while it might seem like your points are logical, I think they overlook the rapidity of events.

Mary Ann Moorman did not state in the May 24 interview that the head shot was the first shot. She stated that the head shot was the first one that she heard.

True. But that doesn't change the points I was making in my previous post re Mary Ann hearing multiple shots after the head shot.

[David Von Pein]

I just now looked back on the post that John Kelin thinks I have not worded correctly. John's wrong, I worded it perfectly (check between the parentheses):

"...Mary Moorman's belief that the FIRST shot (of 3 or 4 total that

she said she heard) hit JFK in the head." -- DVP

Edited May 28, 2011 by David Von Pein

[Don Jeffries]

I tend to agree with Bernice here. I don't think Moorman is all that impressive of a witness, no matter what your views are. If she'd been questioned adequately early on, as she would have been in an honest investigation, then her input almost certainly would have been very valuable.

I also find it a bit unseemly that she appears to have a desire to discredit Jean Hill. With Hill no longer around to defend herself, that just strikes me the wrong way, especially since (I think) they were at one time close friends.

[Greg Burnham]

I tend to agree with Bernice here. I don't think Moorman is all that impressive of a witness, no matter what your views are. If she'd been questioned adequately early on, as she would have been in an honest investigation, then her input almost certainly would have been very valuable.

I also find it a bit unseemly that she appears to have a desire to discredit Jean Hill. With Hill no longer around to defend herself, that just strikes me the wrong way, especially since (I think) they were at one time close friends.

Exactly my sentiments, Don.

[Pat Speer]

I tend to agree with Bernice here. I don't think Moorman is all that impressive of a witness, no matter what your views are. If she'd been questioned adequately early on, as she would have been in an honest investigation, then her input almost certainly would have been very valuable.

I also find it a bit unseemly that she appears to have a desire to discredit Jean Hill. With Hill no longer around to defend herself, that just strikes me the wrong way, especially since (I think) they were at one time close friends.

Unseemly? She was trying to straighten out the record. Jean Hill's story changed in many ways over the years. Mary, as her friend, didn't want to come out and say she was full of beans. Now, she's telling her story. It's exactly what she ought to have done.

Jean Hill and Mary Moorman are both important witnesses in that they both heard a shot or shots after the head shot. Most of those nearby--Hudson, Zapruder, Summers, Brehm, also heard at least one shot after the head shot.

But the rest of what Jean Hill claimed in her latter years is unreliable and probably nonsense. Mary's words help clear this up.

[Bernice Moore]

Don, that'll teach you to agree with me anytime, when Pat's around:lol: .. ...thanks..............see we are known :ph34r:not to..:blink:in the past....like hardly ever..... :lol: ... have a good day gentlemen...b..ps kellerman mentions after shots into the limo..

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKkellerman.htm However, Kellerman did provided evidence that suggested that more than three shots were fired at President John F. Kennedy. He told the Warren Commission that after the first shot was fired "a flurry of shells come into the car". He also claimed that he had seen film that argued against the idea of a lone gunman. However, it appeared that members of the Warren Commission did not want to hear about this and the questioning quickly moved on to another topic.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Bernice Moore