Kennedy Family Deaths linked to Sidereal Time

[Ron Ecker]

Assuming that the time calculations are correct, what about the planned JFK assassinations in Chicago and Miami?

As I recall, JFK was to be shot in Chicago during a motorcade to an Army-Navy football game. Would that shooting have occurred around the 16th hour? What time did the game start? (If it was a military coup, as it apparently was in Dallas, I suppose the military brass could dictate when and where the Army-Navy game would be played. I wonder, though, how much the military is into Masonic hours of revenge.)

JFK took a helicopter instead of ride in a planned motorcade in Miami. Did that copter ride occur around the 16th hour? One would expect it to, if the Sidereal time scenario holds true.

[Tom Hume]

Ron,

Interesting questions. If you have time, it seems fairly simple to test some other events.

Kennedy's visit to Chicago was to be November 2, 1963. Chicago is 41 degrees, 51 minutes North latitude, and 87 degrees, 39 minutes West longitude. In Chicago’s time zone you need to subtract six hours from GMT to come up with the local standard time. Therefore, according to Len’s LST Calculator; http://www.iiap.res.in/people/personnel/reks/software/javascript/calclst.php - the deed would have been planned for 1:12 pm Central Standard Time in order for it to have occurred at 16:00 Local Sidereal Time.

The next step I suppose would be to come up with the proposed itinerary for that day and see where John Kennedy was scheduled to have been between, say, 1:00 and 2:00 pm.

By the way, the LST calculator needs decimal numbers; a time of 2:30pm would be entered as 14.5, and a longitude of 122 degrees, 30 minutes would be entered as 122.5, etc.

So Len, there are five possible assassination attempts, four successful, all of which fall into a one hour window of sidereal time, and you indicate that the odds against this happening by chance would be 1:331,776. If one were to insist that the five events also needed to be centered around a particular sidereal hour, 16:00, would that raise the odds to 1:7,962,624?

Edited May 23, 2011 by Tom Hume

[Ron Ecker]

Kennedy's visit to Chicago was to be November 2, 1963. Chicago is 41 degrees, 51 minutes North latitude, and 87 degrees, 39 minutes West longitude. In Chicago’s time zone you need to subtract six hours from GMT to come up with the local standard time. Therefore, according to Len’s LST Calculator; http://www.iiap.res.in/people/personnel/reks/software/javascript/calclst.php - the deed would have been planned for 1:12 pm Central Standard Time in order for it to have occurred at 16:00 Local Sidereal Time.

The next step I suppose would be to come up with the proposed itinerary for that day and see where John Kennedy was scheduled to have been between, say, 1:00 and 2:00 pm.

It was the Army-Air Force game, not Army-Navy. I haven't been able to find the game time. However, according to Waldron and Hartmann (Ultimate Sacrifice, p. 622), JFK was to arrive at O'Hare Airport at 11:00 am and go by motorcade to Soldier Field. The route was 11 miles long, via what was then known as the Northwest Expressway to the Loop at Jackson Street, then through "a warehouse district" to Soldier Field. Since it would take far less than an hour to cover 11 miles, assuming no stops, I would guess that the game started at 12 noon, unless JFK was to arrive at the stadium over an hour before kickoff. In any case, given the arrival time of 11 am, an assassination during the motorcade would have been scheduled for between 11 am and noon.

[Ron Ecker]

I just revisited this thread through the link from the new thread on Sherman Skolnick.

If JFK arrived in Chicago on 11/2/63 at 11 AM, and was to go 11 miles in a motorcade to Soldier Field, I would guess, assuming a slow motorcade through Chicago, that the attempted assassination would be around 11:30. Using the LST Calculator, and assuming it's correct that for Chicago's time zone 6 hours should be subtracted (the Calculator default figure is -5), and using a longitude of 87 degrees, the sidereal time of the attempted assassination would be 14.17, or within a two-hour period relative to the other Kennedy incidents.

[Robert Mady]

How is it that the conspirators could have been so careless in Chicago and then again in Miami as to be discovered and cause a cancellation, why would they telegraph the assassination attempts but then have no leaks in Dallas, even though a wanted poster was published in Dallas no one got wind of trouble. Could it have been merely back ground cover to produce a history or a false history if necessary that many people were out to murder KENNEDY and if OSWALD hadn't done it some other lone nut would have? After all, all we know about Chicago and Miami is that there seemed to be credible threats that disrupted motorcades. It could be the conspirators were just building history if needed later to prove a point. IS it possible that there was not any known credible threat of assassination in Chicago or Dallas that this information has been produced as a diversion? Thinking about KENNEDYs side, why would he keep insisting on open car motorcades knowing two credible attempts were just thwarted? They make him out to look careless and foolhardy, he was no fool nor was he careless.

The Chicago attempt gets even more ridiculous with the rumor "LEE" provided the FBI foreknowledge...'they' must be laughing at us chasing this non-sense like it has substance.

It is interesting listening to Doug Horne, he claims the ARRB asked the SS to provide security reports (not correct name) for time periods November 1963 and a few months prior, the SS destroyed their records at the same time the ARRB was creating the request for the records. These records no doubt would have shed light on the reality of Chicago and Miami 'plots'.

I view the reality of these plots being significant or real with much skepticism.

These guys were not stupid or careless.

Douglas, very interesting thread.

[David Andrews]

Is there an FBI report that identifies the Dallas warning and its sender, "Lee"?

[Robert Mady]

David, I am sure someone on this Forum has more accurate information than I can provide.

From memory I believe this rumor was started by "an FBI agent or employee" that recalled seeing a teletype one night with information from an informer named "LEE" and his warning about the assassination attempt for Chicago, I don't know the name of the FBI employee and as far as I know there is no document that can be produced as evidence that there ever was a message warning about an intended assassination attempt.

It would need to be explained why a warning message would be mass transmitted to FBI offices which included specific name of an informer?

If an FBI agent had obtained critical information from an informer, wouldn't all names be withheld to protect the identity of the informant?

This is just fishy and when looked at critically gets absurd.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Robert Mady

[David Andrews]

I'm not doubting you, Robert. But the "Lee" FBI tip-off is one of these documents we often hear of but never see, it seems.

[Robert Mady]

David, I totally agree with you the FBI rumor of an informant by the name of 'LEE' in telex I believe is fictitious.

I believe the story of motorcade cancelation in Chicago and Miami because of thwarted assassination attempts are also made up.

These rumors are just crumbs of non-sense that most researchers are enticed to follow.

The more fiction they put out on LHO the more it prevents us from focusing on who actually did it.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Robert Mady

[Douglas Caddy]

I have always wondered why the deaths of the Kennedys took place in sidereal time, in the Hour of Revenge. Perhaps this excerpt from an article by Peter Dale Scott provides the reason:

Hoover eventually collected information on all those with political influence, from members of Congress to the very wealthy; and he retained personal control over this information in his files to protect his position. For example he reportedly had
343 closely held case files on the business activities of Joseph P. Kennedy, starting with the bootlegging years and including coverage of several illegal – treasonous, even – transactions brought off while Kennedy was Ambassador to the Court of Saint James.
[source cited by Scott: Burton Hersh’s book, Bobby and J. Edgar, p 15.]

https://libya360.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/natoamericas-unchecked-security-state-parts-i-ii/

Edited April 24, 2016 by Douglas Caddy

[Kathleen Collins]

The Oxnard call was first said to be made by Karyn Kupcinet to Chicago to her father. Greg Parker figured out

what it was and it had no bearing on Karyn. This girl had no luck. Her father found a mobster who knew Jack

Ruby, who was originally from Chicago. At the time that Ruby shot Oswald the Mob did not want to be

associated with the Assassination. Later they bragged they did it. Anyway, Irv Kupcinet was a TV talk show host

and columnist with the Chicago Sun-Times. He tracked down Paul Dorfman, who owned a home in Palm

Springs; around 8 am PT. He informed Dorfman that this Rubinstein just shot Oswald.

Now, you talk about coincidences. Karyn Kupcinet was in Palm Springs that weekend also. I believe the Mob

bumped her off to send Kup a message to stop investigating the assassination. Her death was never solved.

She died 4 days after Oswald and wasn't found until 3 days later. Did she OD? There was no vomit found at the

scene, no drinking glass. The police found 2 sets of prints never identified.

The coroner who performed the autopsy said Karyn died of a broken hyoid bone. Three years later 2 women

were exhumed that he had worked on. One woman he said was decapitated. She wasn't. Another woman died

of natural causes, not strangulation. The Coroner was quoted as saying, "Well, at least I didn't break the hyoid

bone on that one." He is described as being a drunk. So now we really don't know what she died from.

In the 80's I was a professional astrologer. So I am going to look into her death to see if it is related to President

Kennedy's death or Oswald's regarding sidereal time.

FWIW, I spoke to a psychic about Karyn's death in 1996. She said there was a tall, dark man there and he was

there because of addiction. He spoke 2 languages.

The only thing missing from her house, which looked ransacked, were 100 methamphetamine pills, desoxyn. I

learned that later on.

I bring her up because Penn Jones Jr wrote that Karyn was the one who made the Oxnard call and that she had

foreknowledge of the assassination, which she did not.

Kathy C