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Fluoride is a big envionmental problem and only used in the lunar lander engine designs.

That's not correct, Jim. It may well pose environmental hazards, but it was not used in the lunar lander (LM) design. The fuels were a mixture of Aerozine 50 and nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). This was used in the LM APS, DPS and the ascent stage RCS. It's used in spacecraft and some missile systems because it can be stored for long periods.

I believe fluorine was investigated for use in launch vehicle propellent (not by itself but being mixed with other fuels such as hydrogen or mixed with an oxidiser such as oxygen), but I couldn't tell you how much it is in use today.

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My question is: is she related to Sylvia Odio. I know Sylvia is from Cuba and Eunice is from Costa Rica (but is a naturalized Guatemalan). But I've never seen the question answered definitively.

Thanks for your ideas,

Jill

Edited by Jill Craven
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I am a Professor of Film Studies at Millersville University of Pennsylvania. My undergraduate degree in Math/Computer Science and my graduate degree in Comparative Literature both reflect a joy in analyzing complex systems. As this Kennedy assassination certainly qualifies as complex, I have been captured by the addictive qualities of the documents.

My interests in particular run to the women involved in these operations/events and how their stories have been told, discounted, and overlooked.

I think the main reason is that most JFK researchers are men. It is definitely true that most posters on this forum are men. Maybe it is because men tend to be more obsessional than women. I remember trying to persuade Deborah Davis, the first journalist, to identify Operation Mockingbird, to take an interest in the case. She refused, claiming that she got into too much trouble with her work on Watergate. Some women who have contributed a great deal to JFK research include Mary Ferrell, Sylvia Meagher, Joan Mellen, Lisa Pease, Dorothy Kilgallen, Debra Conway and Priscilla Johnson (maybe more disinformation than information).

Women involved in the JFK case that need more research include: Madeleine Brown, Judith Campbell, Rose Cheramie, Acquilla Clemons, Nellie Connally, Jeanne de Mohrenschildt, Silvia Duran, Adele Edisen, Anne Goodpasture, Katharine Graham, Jean Hill, Lisa Howard, Josefa Johnson, Mary Jo Kopechne, Janet Leddy, Evelyn Lincoln, Marita Lorenz, Clare Booth Luce, Helen Markham, Mary Pinchot Meyer, Mary Moorman, Silvia Odio, Beverly Oliver, Delphine Roberts, Ellen Rometsch, Mary Sherman, Florence Smith, Saundra K. Spencer, Nancy Carole Tyler and Carolyn Walther.

John,

Mary Jo Kopechne? How would she be interesting in the JFK case?

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Why Dallas Burlesque Owes a Debtto Tammi True

The city has seen a resurgence in the playfulart of striptease. Meet one of the pioneers.

By by David Hopkins

http://www.dmagazine...i_True.aspx?p=1

D Magazine MAR 2011

I'm sitting with a 72-year-old woman, looking at a scrapbook filled with nakedphotos of her, naked with the exception of pasties and a G-string. She'ssmoking hot, and I'm not quite sure how to react. She turns the page in herscrapbook. There's a business card for the Carousel Club: "OfferingSophisticated, Risqué, Provocative, Delightful Entertainment—Your Host—JackRuby."

She smiles. "The Sixth Floor Museum wants all this stuff when I die."

In the 1960s, Nancy Myers, better known as Tammi True, headlined at theCarousel Club, the striptease venue owned by Jack Ruby. Throughout her careeras a burlesque dancer, she performed in several downtown

Dallas clubs and traveled the country with her routine. Theycalled her Miss Excitement.

Unlike some associates of Ruby's, Myers remained reclusive, shying frominterviews. She gave Esquire an interview decades ago, but felt themagazine misrepresented her. It was not easy to find her. The townhouses in herpart of Grand Prairie all look the same. The address numbers are not clearlyvisible from the cracked street, and the lane in the housing complex weaves inan illogical pattern. Fortunately, she stood outside on her small patch offront yard. As I drove past, our eyes met and I knew it was her. I stopped thecar, introduced myself.

A few minutes later, I'm in her living room, digging through the contents of alarge plastic bin filled with scrapbooks, old newspapers, playbills, and pocketguides to Dallas entertainment. Inside her house, she has a poodle and acat she named PITA ("pain in the ass"). A finished newspaper crossword puzzlesits folded in half on her coffee table and nearby on a bookshelf there is acrossword puzzle dictionary. There are framed photos, antiques, numerousplants, and crafted knickknacks. It looks like any grandmother's home. No onewould suspect her former life.

Before she became Tammi True, Myers was married to Cecil Powell. He was aburglar. "Cecil was probably the best safe man in town," Myers recalls with asense of pride. "That was fun and exciting, I thought, until I got pregnant."They divorced when their daughters were 2 and 4. Powell left and took his lineof work to California. Myers moved in with her grandmother in Fort Worth.

Now single, Myers liked to go out dancing. She met Guy Parnell from CarswellAir Force Base. He had a band. The twist was a popular dance craze, and theband wanted Myers to dance for them. The club that booked them, however, wanteda striptease dancer. Parnell urged Myers to try it. "I said, 'I cannot dothat.' I was raised Catholic. I was kind of a moral immoral bitch back then. Hethought I'd be great, and then they'd book them." Myers' friend Elizabeth Klugalso encouraged her and offered to make her a dress. " 'I'll make you acostume,' she said. We bought some green satin and green sequins—a bra,panties, and a short dress. We didn't know anything about breakaway zippers, soshe put hooks and eyes all the way down the side of this little dress that shemade." Jimmy Levens, the owner of the Skyliner Ballroom on Jacksboro Highway, saw her dance. His club did striptease on Friday andSaturday nights. Sherry Lynn, a stripper from Dallas who worked at the Skyliner, offered to train her. Lynn told her to just dance, and then she would cue Myers when to takesomething off.

"I just couldn't do it," Myers says. "They kept pushing me out. I made it. WhenI got through, she agreed with Jimmy that I had a lot of talent. She took meunder her wing."

Myers danced at the Skyliner on Fridays and Saturdays under the stage nameTammi True. She made $50 for both nights. In contrast, she made $35 a week ather day job. Myers was ready to make her weekend side project a full-timeaffair.

Meanwhile, in Dallas, Jack Ruby struggled with his new Carousel Club. He hadowned other clubs with varied levels of failure. The Carousel started as asupper club, but it wasn't working, so he decided to try it as a stripteasevenue. Ruby had to get girls, but he didn't want to go through booking agentPappy Dolsen. Ruby didn't like Dolsen.

"Pappy wanted to sign girls up right away, especially new girls, to a two- orthree-year contract," Myers says. "Sherry had already told me. 'Do not signwith him, because if you do you'll have to work where he tells you to work andhe'll get 20 percent. He's got control of you.' " Sherry Lynn recommended Myersto Ruby. He hired Myers without even meeting her. "He told me what he'd pay me,and then that he'd give me extra because I'd have to drive from Fort Worth to Dallas and back. And I said okay. I knew him well enough to knowwhat to expect. He was very nice to me. I did my first show, and he waspleased."

Myers leans forward and taps on an 8-by-10 publicity photo. "I didn't feel likedoing my hair that day. So that's a wig." She admires herself. "I looked likeKim Novak."

Myers says downtown Dallas looked different back when she was working there."Downtown used to be vibrant. All the big hotels had a big showroom and a bigentertainer." Several burlesque clubs operated along Commerce and Jackson streets: the Carousel Club, Montmarte Club, the ColonyClub, and Theater Lounge, owned by Ruby's rivals Abe and Barney Weinstein.Across the street from the Carousel, the Adolphus Hotel had a musical comedyrevue with a live orchestra called Bottoms Up. The show ran six times a week.

The Carousel Club was open seven days a week. Myers worked from 9 pm to 2 am. The showconsisted of four girls, each with her own 15-minute act. There was a band—atrio of drums, horn, and piano—that performed original music composed for eachroutine. Between the strip acts, the club would feature other entertainers suchas a comedian, magician, or ventriloquist—maybe a puppeteer.

Tammi True's routine had a reputation for being raunchy. "Other girls said Iwas the dirtiest thing they'd ever seen," she says. "I could

dance, but I could do it tongue-in-cheek. I learned a long time ago that I waslittle and cute, and I could get away with stuff other people couldn't."

Myers then puts aside the scrapbook. "I'd do a thing where I'd be dancing, leanover, and look through my legs," she says, standing up from the couch to demonstrate.She turns her back to me, spreads her legs, and tries to bend over. She's ableto bend only at a 45-degree angle. She looks back to me and says, "Can you seethe whole show?" I laugh uncomfortably. Myers then turns around. "I'd do a halfsplit." Myers does not attempt the half split. "I'd fall down into it, and I'dgo, 'Would you say that's stretching a good thing too far?' " Myers sits down. "When I got up on that stage,I had everyone standing up on their damn feet, hollering, screaming, andhooting. You gotta work the crowd. Fifty percent of it is projection, and theother 50 percent is costuming and talent."

Her dresses were hand-tailored by Tony Sinclair, a drag queen. "He madecostumes for another girl. I really loved her costumes. I met him when I was inKansas City. They were having a gay convention, and I met him afterwork. He was being a bitch that night. I asked him about making me somecostumes, but he didn't want to sew." Myers did not let this stop her. Shebegan to befriend Sinclair. They worked shows together, shared hotel rooms ontheir travels. Then Sinclair finally relented and sewed costumes for her. "Hewas right behind the curtain catching all my stuff. He made it and he wanted totake good care of it." The dresses would cost around $300, which, accountingfor inflation, would be more than $2,000 today.

As Tammi True, she was featured in the United Press International news feed fora $150,000 lawsuit against Jimmy Levens. They got into an argument. Levensturned the spotlight off on her at the Skyliner, and a customer pinched her. Alawyer friend convinced her to sue. Myers decided to file a suit "as a lark,"but it never went to trial. When Jack Ruby discovered she was in the news, hewas elated. The headlines made her the headliner of his show. "It was worth$150,000 in publicity," she says.

Myers' neighbors had no clue about her secret life. During the day, she was a PTAmember who baked cookies and helped out with school carnivals. "Our family satdown every day at 4:30 in theafternoon. We didn't watch TV and eat. We all sat down and discussed our day.Then, I would leave to go to Dallas about 7 o'clock. Ofcourse, I didn't get home until 3 or 4 in the morning. I would go to bed andget up every day at around 10. So when my children came home, I was up andspent time with them." Myers stresses this point. The fame was exciting,fulfilling a lifelong desire to be in the spotlight and to be adored. But itall came back to her family. Being Tammi True allowed Myers to buy a house forthem, to support her mother and grandmother, and to do it all as a singlemother.

A priest discovered Myers' secret after visiting her mother. Father Fisher wasnew to the parish, and he came to introduce himself. Myers' mother had put someof Tammi's publicity pictures on the wall. While talking, Father Fisher keptstealing glances at the photographs. Then he had to ask, "What does yourdaughter do anyway?" Her mother replied, "She's an entertainer." Later, whenMyers was home, the priest returned to introduce himself.

"I noticed that you're an entertainer," he said.

"Yes, I am."

"What kind—"

"I'm a striptease dancer," Myers answered directly. "I don't know whetherthat's a sin or not. Do you think it is, Father?"

"Are you doing it with the intention of making someone go out and do somethingbad?"

"No, I'm just doing it so I can get paid at the end of the week."

"Then, in that case, it's not a sin." Father Fisher paused for a moment. "ButI'd be glad to come over and watch your show and let you know what I think."

Myers declined his offer.

When Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald, Tammi True's legacy would forever be tiedto his club and his name. Her secret identity was revealed. "Nobody knew what Idid until Jack shot Oswald. In the paper, they put my name, my real name, and Iwas devastated. My neighbors were great. I had lived there long enough thatthey knew I wasn't a dipxxxx floozy. I was an ordinary, regular person. My kidstook a little flack. One or two of their little friends weren't allowed to playwith them. The kids would say, 'Your mom's a striiiiper,'and be ugly to them."

Myers closes her scrapbook. "I never participated after Jack did that. I'dnever go see him. I didn't work the club. I had actually closed out to take offfor Thanksgiving, and I never went back," she says.

She found work at Weinstein's club, Theater Lounge. She would sometimes fill inat the Colony Club, and would run back and forth between the clubs to perform,changing in between. Myers also found steady work in Oklahoma. But burlesque entertainment waned in the '60s and '70s.By the early '80s, none of these Dallas clubs would survive. The once vibrant downtown Dallas would be reduced to parking garages and office buildings.

Myers noticed the downward trend. The girls started dancing to "canned music,"and the band was no longer used. It was more economical for club owners. Inexchange, the clubs lost a bit of their glamour and class. The strip clubs lostthe variety show aspect as well. No more comedians, magicians, orventriloquists. New bars opened along Greenville Avenue, near the Granada Theater, featuring smaller stages andcatering to a lunchtime crowd. Where once women crafted routines, now they justdanced naked. The expedience of these new clubs sidestepped the bawdy fun ofburlesque, and it became seedier as a result. Nancy Myers withdrew back intocivilian life. She remarried. "At the age of 30, I hung up my G-string."

Recently, burlesque has returned to Dallas. It's a new attempt at restoring theatrics and glamour tothe fine art of removing clothing to music. Viva Dallas Burlesque producessold-out shows at the Lakewood Theater every month. They feature thebiggest-name burlesque dancers from all over Texas. In February, Viva Dallas produced a Cirque duSoleil-inspired show with aerial acrobatics, juggling, and a snake charmer.Yes. Midair striptease. Troupes such as the Lollie Bombs introduce newburlesque stars to a new audience. According to Shoshana Portnoy, aphotographer and the editor of Pin Curl Magazine, "It's so much more. A lot ofpeople go for the sexuality and they go for the glamour, of course, but there'scomedy. It's an entire theatrical production. Once you go, you'll know howdifferent it is."

Dallas is the premier burlesque city in the South. The reputationof Dallas being plastic is actually well-suited for burlesque, whereeverything is supposed to be glitzy, playful, high-flying, and artificial. Dallas is a city that likes to be entertained. Not that burlesquethrives in Dallas, but Dallas, it seems, thrives in burlesque.

The mystique of Jack Ruby, Tammi True, and the Carousel Club has fueled theimaginations of new performers. I met one burlesque dancer, Pixie O'Kneel, whosays, "I really respect the ladies from back in the day. They worked theirasses off and were truly artists. Not that burlesque performers today don'twork their asses off and are not artists, I just think it was harder for themthan it is for us because of the way society of that time perceived women andpeople who were onstage." Last year, the Ruby Revue Burlesque Show invitedMyers to appear at the House of Blues for its show. They sent a limo for her.

Angi B Lovely met Tammi True that night. "She came backstage and told us she'dbe watching to see if we were doing it right," Lovely says. "Made me nervous ashell. She went onstage later that night and absolutely blew me away. I lovewatching the legends. There is so much to learn."

Though Myers enjoyed herself, she criticizes the lack of live music and acomedian. "I told them you need to do it the right way. It wasn't

just girls—boom, boom, boom."

Last year, Teddy's Room, a burlesque-themed nightclub, opened in Dallas. It features a brief show, with a single dancer, twiceduring the night. I went one evening by myself. I stood in the corner with myrum and Coke. Clusters of woo-girls, each wearing the same uniform black dress,crammed into the bar. I counted five bachelorette parties. It was a stylishplace. The room pulsed with pop songs. Then, close to midnight, the music stopped. Everyone dancing looked mildlyirritated. A three-piece band on the narrow stage behind the bar broke into aswanky version of Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit." Then a twiggy woman in ablack sequined dress appeared from the edge of the bar. She rocked her hipsfrom side to side, leaned against the back wall, and gave a high kick. In amove that reminded me of Myers, she spread her legs and bent over, looking atthe audience from between her thighs. The audience couldn't quite figure outhow to respond. A piece of clothing came off and then another. The crowd grewincreasingly excited and confused. When the final piece came off, revealing asheer bra with pasties underneath, the audience applauded. The music resumedand so did they. The days of Tammi True may have returned, but it was for amoment, and it was fleeting.

At Myers' house, after putting away the plastic bin, she stands in front of me,her audience. She holds her arms up, as though waiting for the music to start,turning her head to the side.

"When I walked out, I was a star," she says. "I was going to do a good show andwow them. I took it very seriously." Her arms fall to her sides. She looks atme and shrugs. "And when I was through, I was just plain old me."

Write to davidhopkins@gmail.com.

Edited by William Kelly
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Penn Jones was deliberately misinformed to protect a witness. Karen Carlin recently passed away.

It was Beverly Oliver Massagee, another former employee of Ruby's at the Carousel, who called Shaw to say that Little Lynn was no more.

Frog

info from gary shaw;

Almost 18 years after revealing to the Times-Review that Karen “Little Lynn” Carlin was alive, Gary Shaw has officially pronounced her dead.

Shaw, arguably the most diligent of the John F. Kennedy assassination researchers, claimed for decades that history involving the assassination and its aftermath was flawed and that some of its peripheral characters might be able to shed light on crucial moments.

Warren Commission testimony led most observers to believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he shot the president on Nov. 22, 1963.

Live television showed Dallas nightclub impresario Jack Ruby putting a bullet in Oswald Nov. 24 in the basement of Dallas Police headquarters on Elm Street.

Court testimony suggested that Ruby parked his car near a Western Union office and wired money to Carlin, one of his featured exotic dancers, in Fort Worth. Then, it was argued by his attorneys, Ruby took a short stroll to DPD, walked down a ramp into the basement and experienced a momentary loss of sanity when he saw Oswald.

The actions of Ruby and Carlin led to unanswered questions.

Was the murder premeditated or was it not?

Was the wire to Carlin pure happenstance or was it planned to give Ruby an alibi for being in the vicinity of DPD? And if it was planned, did Carlin know Ruby was about to shoot Oswald?

Ruby never addressed those subjects while in custody. He died of cancer on Jan. 3, 1967.

The other person who could have eliminated some of the speculation, Carlin, never talked about it ... not to the Warren Commission, before which she testified, or to newspaper types like Jack Gordon of the Fort Worth Press.

Gordon revealed in a 1964 column that Carlin (July 20, 1944-Aug. 16, 2010) told him she was leaving the Metroplex and the exotic dancing profession forever because she was tired of harassment in her public life.

“I’ve had to move 12 times,” she told Gordon. “Whenever a landlord found out who I was, I was asked to move. They were afraid of getting mixed up in the Ruby case.”

Carlin was arrested at Ruby’s trial on Dec. 23, 1963, for carrying a pistol into the courtroom in her purse.

She told Gordon, “I’ll never forget what happened to me at the Ruby trial. I hope everyone else does.”

Gordon wrote about her upcoming five-night engagement at the Skyliner Club on the Jacksboro Highway in Fort Worth with a lineup of exotics including Tammi True, Sherry Lynn and Diane Durrett: “With the money she’ll collect, she figures she will be able to quit taking ‘em off.”

Police cut short the entertainment by arresting Carlin for indecent exposure on Sept. 6, 1964. She reportedly pleaded guilty to a lesser charge, paid a fine and disappeared.

And then, according to another assassination researcher named Penn Jones Jr., she got dead.

Jones wrote in one of his books, “Forgive My Grief I,” that Carlin died in Houston. Jones’ claim was repeated in later books by other authors and eventually accepted as fact.

Carlin stayed dead until 1992 when, through Shaw, she came back to life.

Shaw told me then that he had talked to Carlin through an intermediary and that she had disappeared because she feared for her life. Mobsters Santos Trafficante Jr. and Carlos Marcello had ample motive for killing Kennedy, researchers found, and for killing anyone else in a position to talk about their presumed involvement in the assassination. That included Carlin. Marcello, on the back of his New Orleans office door, kept a sign that said, “Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead.”

So if Carlin lived, why did Penn Jones make her dead?

By 1993, Jones was at death’s door, residing with his second wife Elaine in Ellis County. His memory was failing, at times nonexistent. Shaw and I went to visit him in hopes of finding out why he had given Carlin a premature burial. He was unable to tell us. But his wife said Jones told her he had been asked by an unknown person to write that Carlin died.

She said in a tape recorded interview: “Whoever it was told Penn that for her [Carlin’s] sake he was to say she was dead. She was going into the government protection plan.”

Almost immediately after the Times-Review story was published, Shaw and I received letters from Elaine Jones denying she had said what was quoted and accusing us of attempting to ruin her husband’s reputation.

That was the last time I addressed the subject for the Times-Review. Shaw continued to probe. He said in later years that Karen Carlin agreed to meet with him and that he flew to Detroit to do the interview. Then, according to Shaw, she cancelled. He never did meet her face-to-face.

Whether you believe Karen Carlin was alive in the early ’90s depends on whether you believe Shaw. There was evidence she was alive — the Jack Gordon column, dated after the time Carlin was supposed to have died. And evidence that she died in Houston was nonexistent.

A month or so ago, I asked Shaw if he’d be willing to talk about Carlin’s recent passing for a story. He was hesitant. He said he’d tried to put the Kennedy assassination behind him.

I’m glad he reconsidered.

Dallas in 1962

By 1962, Dallas had become less a wide-open city than one where a drink or drug could be bought and consumed and where a dice or card game could be arranged. If you knew the right people, you could hire muscle to bring someone down or protect yourself from harm. Conservative to a fault politically, Dallas was permissive socially. Some of the permissiveness was said to result from the behavior of goon elements operating under the umbrella of the New Orleans Mafia.

Marcello (Feb. 6, 1910-March 3, 1993) directed the New Orleans crime family with an iron fist. He resented interlopers and meddlers. Among his partners in crime, so to speak, was Trafficante (Nov. 15, 1914-March 17, 1987), who oversaw criminal operations in Florida and Cuba.

Marcello and Trafficante had one thing in common almost a half-century ago. Along with Teamsters boss Jimmy Hoffa, they despised the president and attorney general Bobby Kennedy, who went so far as to forcefully deport Marcello.

Marcello, Trafficante and Hoffa had the motive, means and opportunity to order a hit on the president in Dallas. The Warren Commission disagreed. Gary Shaw, then a young architect, wasn’t so sure.

“I believe the mob was an instrument [in the Kennedy and Oswald deaths],” Shaw said. “There was more to Ruby than some would like to admit. I had a quote one time from a high-ranking state department employee. He said that if you want to assassinate somebody, find the toughest kid on the block who is crazy enough to do anything. So after he does something, people will say, ‘He’s crazy.’ That fits the profile of Ruby.”

But Ruby wasn’t brainless or witless, as he is sometimes portrayed.

“He would table-hop at the Carousel shaking hands, and sometimes he was his own comedian [betweeen strip acts]. He’d tell stories, and he was a fast talker. He was actually pretty good.”

Ruby may have been shrewd enough to fabricate an alibi at the Western Union office the day he shot Oswald.

“In the book about [Dallas County Sheriff] Bill Decker [by Jim Gatewood], it says, ‘As Decker listened to Ruby’s trial, his mind snapped to attention. Much ado was made over the fact that Ruby established his presence at a Western Union Office 11 minutes before shooting Oswald ...

“Decker recalled a jailhouse interview with a master of alibi who laid out the Western Union alibi like this: ‘Go into the Western Union office and ask the operator for an application to send money. Leave with the form blank. Fill it out with the next day’s date. Have somebody take the signed form to Western Union the next day to be sent. Later, when the operator is asked if he remembers you, he’ll say yes, but the one-day difference will not be remembered.

“Decker smiled to himself at Ruby’s use of the Western Union alibi to establish that it was not a pre-meditated hit.’”

Shaw added, “I suspected that all along. And I don’t believe he came down the ramp at the police station, either. I think he came through the back door that was left unlocked by somebody.”

In 1992, former Cleburne resident Sheila Underwood, now deceased, told Shaw that Karen Carlin was alive.

“Sheila had contact with Bruce Carlin [Karen’s ex-husband]. On June 9, 1992, she called me to say Bruce said to come up and see him in Arlington. In my notes, I wrote that I met with Carlin and his common-law wife and Sheila. Bruce called Karen while he was in my presence. I talked to her for a few minutes. She was living under the name Karen Block in Detroit. Her son, Michael, also lived in that area. She was pregnant with Michael at the time of the Kennedy assassination. He was born in April, 1964.

“Karen called me on Aug. 5, 1992. She wanted to make sure I was a writer. She said she didn’t trust Bruce. She said she wanted to hear the truth told but she didn’t think people were ready to hear the truth.”

Shaw made arrangements to fly to Detroit to meet her.

“She gave me her phone number on the promise I would not share it with anybody,” Shaw said. “I checked into a motel and went to a restaurant. At 6:15 p.m., the hostess told me I had a call. It was a woman’s voice saying Karen’s car had broken down and that she wanted to meet me the next day.

“I said I’d try to re-arrange my flight. The woman said she’d call back in 15 minutes. She never called. I tried until midnight to call Karen, and there was no answer. To make a long story short, she got cold feet.

“She called me a few days later to apologize. She asked me to send her materials on Santos Trafficante. Her whole concern was whether he was still alive. I said no, and she said, ‘That’s good.’ She said she didn’t mean that like it sounded. I assured her I understood what she meant. She traveled with Ruby when he would meet Trafficante. I don’t know whether that’s ever been written about. I never got to talk to Carlos Marcello, but I spent some time in New Orleans talking to people who worked for him.”

That was essentially the end of Shaw’s contact with Karen Carlin. He said he’s convinced the woman with whom he talked was Carlin.

“I asked her about things only she would know, and she freely talked about them. There’s not a shred of doubt in my mind it was her.”

Shaw said he holds nothing against Penn Jones for the misunderstanding 18 years ago in Ellis County.

“Elaine answered all the questions. Penn had little to say. She said she didn’t know she was being recorded. The recorder was right in front of her, and she was asked permission before being recorded. She was upset because she was trying to protect his reputation. She believed Penn wouldn’t make up a story. I believe that, too. I don’t think he lied. He got some misinformation.”

It was Beverly Oliver Massagee, another former employee of Ruby’s at the Carousel, who called Shaw to say that Little Lynn was no more.

Shaw’s melancholy note dated Oct. 18, 2010 reads, “Beverly Massagee called and said Karen died last month. Michael Carlin called [Massagee] to say Karen was cremated and the ashes buried in Tennessee var shared_object = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:'Cleburnite Shaw closes book on mysterious JFK-era figure', summary:' Almost 18 years after revealing to the Times-Review that Karen “Little Lynn” Carlin was alive, Gary Shaw has officially pronounced her dead.

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http://www.cleburnet...-JFK-era-figure

Edited by Bernice Moore
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I'd like to add Karyn Kupcinet, to no one's surprise. It's possible she was killed by a hit man from Chicago. It would be a shock crime to get Ruby and the Mob off the front pages of their newspapers. She was found 3 days after she died. The autopsy was performed by a pervert who had a fetish for strangled women. Two women he worked on were exhumed and found dead from another condition.

We don't know how Karyn was murdered. Even Cyril Wecht couldn't figure it out. There was an empty bottle in the bathroom cabinet. It contained 100 Desoxyn on Nov.25, 1963. About 12:30 am on November 28,1963, Thanksgiving, she may have committed suicide and you couldn't go there with Irv Kupcinet, her father, Mr. Chicago. But she might have died thinking she let her parents down.

Someone I knew who has passed away thought Priscilla MacMillian and Ruth Paine were CIA and got close to the Oswalds. Disinformationalists.

Also, I think we should add Joan Crawford, the head of Pepsico --as representative of Big Business. She was there with Nixon. Supposedly there's a picture of the 2 of them entering a hotel restaurant, the night before the Assassination. (Then came the meeting at Murchison's house -- from what I've read Nixon was not a big eater.)

Coincidently, Joan Crawford allegedly had a fling with Irv Kupcinet. She was a great friend of the Kupcinets and often visited their Chicago home.

Kathy C

Edited by Kathleen Collins
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  • 1 year later...
Guest Tom Scully

Penn Jones was deliberately misinformed to protect a witness. Karen Carlin recently passed away.

It was Beverly Oliver Massagee, another former employee of Ruby's at the Carousel, who called Shaw to say that Little Lynn was no more.

Frog

info from gary shaw;

Almost 18 years after revealing to the Times-Review that Karen “Little Lynn” Carlin was alive, Gary Shaw has officially pronounced her dead.

Shaw, arguably the most diligent of the John F. Kennedy assassination researchers, claimed for decades that history involving the assassination and its aftermath was flawed and that some of its peripheral characters might be able to shed light on crucial moments.

Warren Commission testimony led most observers to believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone when he shot the president on Nov. 22, 1963.

Live television showed Dallas nightclub impresario Jack Ruby putting a bullet in Oswald Nov. 24 in the basement of Dallas Police headquarters on Elm Street.

Court testimony suggested that Ruby parked his car near a Western Union office and wired money to Carlin, one of his featured exotic dancers, in Fort Worth. Then, it was argued by his attorneys, Ruby took a short stroll to DPD, walked down a ramp into the basement and experienced a momentary loss of sanity when he saw Oswald.

The actions of Ruby and Carlin led to unanswered questions.

Was the murder premeditated or was it not?

Was the wire to Carlin pure happenstance or was it planned to give Ruby an alibi for being in the vicinity of DPD? And if it was planned, did Carlin know Ruby was about to shoot Oswald?

Ruby never addressed those subjects while in custody. He died of cancer on Jan. 3, 1967.

The other person who could have eliminated some of the speculation, Carlin, never talked about it ... not to the Warren Commission, before which she testified, or to newspaper types like Jack Gordon of the Fort Worth Press.

Gordon revealed in a 1964 column that Carlin (July 20, 1944-Aug. 16, 2010) told him she was leaving the Metroplex and the exotic dancing profession forever because she was tired of harassment in her public life.

“I’ve had to move 12 times,” she told Gordon. “Whenever a landlord found out who I was, I was asked to move. They were afraid of getting mixed up in the Ruby case.”

...................................

It was Beverly Oliver Massagee, another former employee of Ruby’s at the Carousel, who called Shaw to say that Little Lynn was no more.

Shaw’s melancholy note dated Oct. 18, 2010 reads, “Beverly Massagee called and said Karen died last month. Michael Carlin called [Massagee] to say Karen was cremated and the ashes buried in Tennessee var shared_object = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:'Cleburnite Shaw closes book on mysterious JFK-era figure', summary:' Almost 18 years after revealing to the Times-Review that Karen “Little Lynn” Carlin was alive, Gary Shaw has officially pronounced her dead.

.....................................

http://www.cleburnet...-JFK-era-figure

Social Security Admin. Death Record of Karen L. Block :

http://www.genealogy...32545CBC3344060

Name: Karen L. Block

State of Issue: Florida Date of Birth: Thursday July 20, 1944

Date of Death: Monday August 16, 2010

Est. Age at Death: 66 years, 27 days

Confirmation: Verified

Last known residence:

City: Montgomery County: Branch State: Michigan ZIP Code: 49255 Latitude: 41.7715 Longitude: -84.8524

http://www.timesfreepress.com/obituaries/2010/aug/28/karen-davidson/

JackRubyLittleLynnObit.jpg

Edited by Tom Scully
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Women involved in the JFK case that need more research include: Madeleine Brown, Judith Campbell, Rose Cheramie, Acquilla Clemons, Nellie Connally, Jeanne de Mohrenschildt, Silvia Duran, Adele Edisen, Anne Goodpasture, Katharine Graham, Jean Hill, Lisa Howard, Josefa Johnson, Mary Jo Kopechne, Janet Leddy, Evelyn Lincoln, Marita Lorenz, Clare Booth Luce, Helen Markham, Mary Pinchot Meyer, Mary Moorman, Silvia Odio, Beverly Oliver, Delphine Roberts, Ellen Rometsch, Mary Sherman, Florence Smith, Saundra K. Spencer, Nancy Carole Tyler and Carolyn Walther.

John Marilyn Sitzman should be added to the last list imo, very little is known about her., also Peggy Burney's name ..thanks b

I second this. Marilyn Sitzman should be added to the list.

I did a search of the WCR for her name and I did not find it. I do not think her name is in the entire WCR. At the time of the HSCA Zapruder was dead leaving Sitzman as the only witness on that pedestal and even though the HSCA made the finding that a shot came from the Knoll Sitzman was not called to testify to the HSCA.

Zapruder referred to her in his WC Testimony as "his girl". He did not mention her name and the lawyer did not ask for her name.

Mr. LIEBELER - I show you a picture that has been marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if you can in fact see yourself in that picture?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Let me see--there it is here. That's me standing there--there's a girl--that's where I was standing.

Mr. LIEBELER - You are pointing out a concrete abutment that comes up immediately to the right of the sign that reads "Stemmons Freeway, Keep Right"?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's right. That's the girl behind me--that's my girl that works in my office. She was up there, too.

Mr. LIEBELER - So, you and this girl are shown standing on top of this concrete abutment there?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's right---she was fight behind me and that's from where I took the pictures.

Beatrice Hester should also be added to the list.

Edited by Mike Rago
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I'd add Ruth Paine

fyi...

Contains two taped interviews with Sirley Martin

An Inventory of the Ruth Hyde Paine Marina Oswald Papers, 1963-1968

(2 boxes; 1 linear ft.)

RG 5/109

© Friends Historical Library of Swarthmore College.

Swarthmore, Pennsylvania 19081-1399 U.S.A.

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/friends/ead/5109pain.xml

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