David Josephs Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 We can easily see Jean's read coat enter and move across the limo's trunk from the Z angle... Yet for some reason I don't see the same movement as Altgens crosses the limo's trunk, and he was even closer to the curb than Jean.. Shouldn't we see his image move across the trunk as well? the fact is there was no blood on the trunk during Jean's trip across it... the trunk should have been covered in blood bythe time it reaches Altgens... unless it was already past and the z film was altered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think it's there in 350 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Gallup Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 We can easily see Jean's read coat enter and move across the limo's trunk from the Z angle... Yet for some reason I don't see the same movement as Altgens crosses the limo's trunk, and he was even closer to the curb than Jean.. Shouldn't we see his image move across the trunk as well? the fact is there was no blood on the trunk during Jean's trip across it... the trunk should have been covered in blood bythe time it reaches Altgens... unless it was already past and the z film was altered... David, the most suspicious thing about these frames is that Jean Hill is not looking at Kennedy. Best,Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Jeffries Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks for this, David. You provide more food for thought. Daniel, I've never noticed that before. You are exactly right- Jean Hill is not looking at the limousine, in the midst of the shooting. That's an astute observation, and one that deserves an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Has it got something to do with her eying the MC cop? At the same time what's her statement and does it gel with not looking at JFK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hogan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks for this, David. You provide more food for thought. Daniel, I've never noticed that before. You are exactly right- Jean Hill is not looking at the limousine, in the midst of the shooting. That's an astute observation, and one that deserves an explanation. Peter R. Whitmey's essay on Jean Hill's statements: http://www.jfk-info.com/whitmey1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 There is also another example of a blur issue in Frame # 303. Notice how incredibly sharp Hill and Moorman are in that frame. Actually, they are IMPOSSIBLY sharp for that single frame. Since Zapruder is panning to keep the limo in sight they should be consistently blurred because they are stationary. The only way that both the limo and the stationary objects should all be clear is if and when the limo stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Are Hill and Moorman in proportion to each other, height/size-wise, as seen in other photos and films? Something about Hill in Zapruder seems off, apart from looking away from the limo. Can we match Hill looking away in Zapruder to her statements about seeing the shooting, and about looking for her cycle-cop boyfriend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 There is also another example of a blur issue in Frame # 303. Notice how incredibly sharp Hill and Moorman are in that frame. Actually, they are IMPOSSIBLY sharp for that single frame. Since Zapruder is panning to keep the limo in sight they should be consistently blurred because they are stationary. The only way that both the limo and the stationary objects should all be clear is if and when the limo stopped. Hi Greg... Always thought it was one or the other when panning? Either the background is blurry because the panning and object moving are in sync.. or the object moving is blurry and the background is clear, if the panning pauses just for a few frames.. You probably have a better frame than this... seems there is quite a lot of blur in total... so who knows what the camera was doing at that instant... and isn't Jean looking at her MC boyfriend? Yet that seems to contradict her testimony Mr. SPECTER - Start any place that you find most convenient and just tell me in your own way what happened. Mrs. HILL - Well, as they came toward us, we had been taking pictures with this Polaroid camera and since it was a Polaroid we knew we. had only one chance to get a picture, and at the time she had taken a picture just a few minutes before and I had grabbed it out of the camera and wrapped it and put it in my pocket. Just about that time he drew even with us. Mr. SPECTER - And when you say "he" you mean? Mrs. HILL - The President's car. We were standing on the curb and I jumped to the edge of the street and yelled, "Hey, we want to take your picture," to him and he was looking down in the seat---he and Mrs. Kennedy and their heads were turned toward the middle of the car looking down at something in the seat, which later turned out to be the roses, and I was so afraid he was going to look the other way because there were a lot of people across the street and we were, as far as I know, we were the only people down there in that area, and just as I yelled, "Hey," to him, he started to bring his head up to look at me and just as he did the shot rang out. Mary took the picture and fell on the ground and of course there were more shots. We do not see this happen in the Zfilm at all.... unless at 293 she yells yet immediatley she turns her head away from the limo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) "...and just as I yelled, 'Hey,' to him, he started to bring his head up to look at me and just as he did the shot rang out. Mary took the picture and fell on the ground and of course there were more shots." This isn't consistent with the film or with the official story either. Edited July 14, 2011 by Greg Burnham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hi Greg... Always thought it was one or the other when panning? Either the background is blurry because the panning and object moving are in sync.. or the object moving is blurry and the background is clear, if the panning pauses just for a few frames.. You probably have a better frame than this... seems there is quite a lot of blur in total... so who knows what the camera was doing at that instant... David, If you note the approximate rate that each object pans across the frames from right to left, Hill and Moorman appear to "move" across at a consistent rate during each. They appear to be moving out of frame from 300 to 301 to 302 to 303 to 304 at a consistent clip, IMO. If unaltered, why would that one single frame (303) show them to be so crisp? It was a duration of 1/18th of a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hi Greg... Always thought it was one or the other when panning? Either the background is blurry because the panning and object moving are in sync.. or the object moving is blurry and the background is clear, if the panning pauses just for a few frames.. You probably have a better frame than this... seems there is quite a lot of blur in total... so who knows what the camera was doing at that instant... David, If you note the approximate rate that each object pans across the frames from right to left, Hill and Moorman appear to "move" across at a consistent rate during each. They appear to be moving out of frame from 300 to 301 to 302 to 303 to 304 at a consistent clip, IMO. If unaltered, why would that one single frame (303) show them to be so crisp? It was a duration of 1/18th of a second. It also looks as if z298 does the same thing... if the limo was going VERY slow... as I believe it was (less than 3mph) a slight hesitation in the panning could produce the frame we see... and in 298 I think we see the occupants of the limo blur slightly (I have a gif on the right .. ) btw - in the film you saw.. anything to add about Altgens, Jean and Mary? Was Altgens in frame at the time of the headshot? Thanks and no worries if you'd rather move on re: what you saw... DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 No recollection, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wiessner Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 on the reflection of the limo ,frame 289 you fist see Brehm, frame 300 is Hill , frame 303 is moorman, 316 is the lady in the mid grass, 345 is altgens, but the reflection is in the wrong frame it should be in frame 351 or 352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 on the reflection of the limo ,frame 289 you fist see Brehm, frame 300 is Hill , frame 303 is moorman, 316 is the lady in the mid grass, 345 is altgens, but the reflection is in the wrong frame it should be in frame 351 or 352 Altgens, in z345, is the photographer to the right, closest to the curb... he would not be reflected in the trunk until z349-z354.. And I do think we see his image move on the trunk as the limo passes... as a side note... I've always felt that on the best Zframes we could also see GK reflections... I just don't have those frames to examine... Cheers DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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