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The 'WATCH LIST'


Ed LeDoux
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The infamous backyard photos depict a wrist watch wearing Lee.

Marina stated he had a pocket watch.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=22810

She stated the wrist watch he had was broken so Lee bought a bracelet.

Seeing how he had cut his left wrist in Russia attempting "suicide",

I can see why Lee would wear something over that slight scar.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=22814

This Marina states was most likely before the move to Neely and bracelet was purchased while still at Elsbeth, and while Lee was working at JCS (Jaggars-Chiles-stovall).

Der. 4/6/64

MARINA OSWALD was interviewed at her place of residence,

629 Belt Line Road, Richardson, Texas.

She was questioned further concerning the silver-colored'

bracelet, which LEE HARVEY OSWALD had given her following his return

to Dallas, Texas, after his trip to Mexico. She said this bracelet

was very similar to a bracelet which LEE HARVEY OSWALD wore. His

bracelet had the name 'LEE' engraved upon it . She stated she believed

OSWALD purchased his bracelet about the time they were residing on

Elsbeth Street, or perhaps during the time they rented a place on

Neely Street.

She recalled OSWALD's watch had been in disrepair and,

instead of having the watch fixed, he bought the bracelet and wore

it in place of the watch. On a previous occasion, when OSWALD's

watch was in disrepair, he had had it fixed at Leonard's Department

Store in Fort Worth, Texas. This was at a time when they resided in

Fort Worth.

She believes OSWALD was working at Jaggars-Chiles-stovall

at the time he purchased the bracelet.

MARINA said she does not know where OSWALD purchased the

bracelet which he presented her. OSWALD did not say he had purchased

it In Mexico. He presented it to her within the first hour after

they were reunited following his trip to Mexico. She recalls seeing

a bracelet very such like the bracelet which he gave her in the

Woolworth Store at New Orleans.

She did not like the bracelet and never wore it.

COMMISSION EXHIBIT NO. 1844

The Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall employment was from October 12th, 1962 - April 6th.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1886.pdf

Q. Would you tell me what physical markings you recall on the body of Lee Harvey Oswald, I mean any scars, anything that you could describe, any marks on his body?

A. He had a thin scar on his wrist.

Q. Which wrist?

A. The one he wore his watch on, I don't know whether it was right or left.

Q. The one he wore his watch on?

A. Yes.

Q. Where was the scar?

A. On the inside.

Q. You pointed to the inside of your left wrist.

A. Yes.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/marinade.htm#marsep

About the Watch, FBI item Q87

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=996758

But item Q87 is a LeCoultre wrist watch.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=996757

FBI tested this watch, Q87, for residue. I am assuming it was tested for gunshot residue. What other residue would the FBI be interested in.

If Lee had ever fired a weapon while wearing this watch it did not show up during the testing. "No significant residues" on watch Q87 LeCoultre wrist watch or the ring Q88.

This request to test these item came at the behest of the DPD.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95643&relPageId=179

&

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=996757

I guess the DPD was going off those Backyard photos and needed a wristwatch.

This FBI document notifying the lab of the items for testing and what to test for leaves me wondering who they had in custody that was wearing a LeCoultre wrist watch! It raises a lot of questions if you read the next page...

page1:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=754547

page2:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62255&relPageId=91

A ring was worn by LHO on 11/22 and a ring was also tested for 'any residue'.

One nickel colored with three clear stones.

The ring Q88, is denoted as a MANS RING, but the watch makes no mention of gender.

The watch and ring were examined for hidden compartments. None were found.

Jack Ruby owned a LeCoultre, his was a diamond and 14k gold wrist watch.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=328652

Ruby did have a watch with a special 'compartment', his held a microphone, per Garrison investigation.

There is the reference to a Benrus wrist watch serial #476343

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=734079

FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 229 Number 286

This should be the wrist watch of Lee's that was in disrepair. Now what about the LeCoultre? Why test this watch and not the Benrus for residue?

Why not test the bracelet for residues?

As noted, Lee had an Elgin 17 jewel pocket watch with a second hand dial.

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/NA014559/pin-and-watch-belonging-to-lee-harvey

The city of Irving has in its collections a silver, 17 jewel, Waltham pocket watch, 1903.

http://cityofirving.org/library/archives/accessions/mvf-5-10/7-11.asp

Item(s): Waltham pocket watch, 1903; photocopy of a Lee Harvey Oswald's job application at Padgett Printing Corporation, 1963; photocopy of Lee Harvey Oswald’s murder affidavit, November 22, 1963.

Is this watch being attributed to Lee?

Irving also has something special in its collections...The Paine House.

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2009/09/irving-buys-paine-house-made-infamous.html

Ed

Edited by Ed LeDoux
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The watch and ring were examined for hidden compartments. None were found.

When I was a kid in the 1960s, I had an ID bracelet with a secret compartment. The nameplate was hinged and flipped open.

Just throwing that out there, relative to Oswald's sometime associations with microdots.

[Marina] believes OSWALD was working at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall at the time he purchased the bracelet.

Gainfully employed at intelligence photo lab...buys ID bracelet instead of watch.

Gerald Posner would tell you it's narcissism.

Edited by David Andrews
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Nice work Ed & some keen insights, David. Why i there not more interest in this?

I started doing a little digging the first time you (Ed) mentioned the Benrus watch.

Those watches were outside what Oswald should have been able to afford. In the '50s, they ranged in price from $20 something to over $70. They did make two less expensive lines, but they carried their own names (Sovreign and Belforte) . However -- Belrus did have a contract to supply watches to the military.

Is there any chance the LeCoultre watch sent for testing was actually Ruby's and the paperwork was just screwed up?

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That is great David.

It could be a good reason the bracelet was not examined.

Greg that would mean all this paper work specifically stating it was recovered from Lee at the time of his arrest is wrong, not just the one document. Possible not probable.

Nice find on the Benrus values.

Much to follow up here.

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That is great David.

It could be a good reason the bracelet was not examined.

Greg that would mean all this paper work specifically stating it was recovered from Lee at the time of his arrest is wrong, not just the one document. Possible not probable.

Nice find on the Benrus values.

Ed, how much paperwork are we talking here? There are a number of documents relating to the search of the source of the scope which indicates they were looking for orders in the name "Lee Oswald" or "Willy Randle". It took me quite a while to track down why: they were confusing Willie Randall with Buell Frazier. They also thought that Linnie Mae worked at the depository and added her name to Revill's list. All this confusion was caused by one phone call from a motel manager in Austin where Bill W was staying on the night of the assassination. He had mentioned Buell and Linnie Mae and Buell's association with Oswald through the TSBD.

Much to follow up here.

Agreed, and I'll be following with much interest.

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Ed, how much paperwork are we talking here?

Greg I went over the documents and surmised it would take the DPD requests to FBI regarding the watch to be mislabeled.

Also inclusive in this mislabeling would be:

The airtels.

Lab reports.

Memos regarding lab work and testing.

Reports by agents. Etc,

A single piece of evidence can create a lot of paperwork, but from many sources.

The documents say the watch was Lee's LeCoultre.

I am trying to find the "mistake" but with no luck (if it was a mistake).

David, the Ruby 'secret agent kit' was explained as a guy trying to get in good with the cops, ya know...sing like a canary. He was an informant. Or was trying to be. Ruby it seems was using the bugged briefcase, ring, and other spy items to gather information he passed on to the authorities.

Lee's bracelet:

Turned over to the FBI lab. Photographed and given a visual comparison.

Q577 is the bracelet of Lee's.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=268744

A photo of the bracelet is listed as CE 383.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/contents/wc/contents_wh16.htm

CE 383a Shows us the bracelet, the ring Q88 and what should be Lee's post office key.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0500a.htm

In the Dallas archives is a receipt.

09 05 019 Receipt 11/30/63 D. W. Reuben Original Signed 100002685

Release of ring and identification bracelet to the FBI.

And

12 09 001 Photograph date unknown an unknown author Photographic Image: Size 8" X 10" Photographs of Marine ring and ID bracelet with inscription "Lee", negative number 91-001/151

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/data.htm

Oswald's stretchband bracelet --- Whaley noticed Oswald's shiny bracelet on his left wrist. He explained to the Warren Commission "I always notice watchbands, unusual watchbands, and identification bracelets like these, because I make them myself ... It was just a common stretchband identification bracelet. A lot of them are made of chain links and not stretchbands (Vol 2 pg 293). Stretchbands are unusual because there is very few of them". A photograph of Oswald taken shortly after his arrival at DPD headquarters shows a bracelet on his left wrist. This bracelet was removed from Oswald's left wrist at DPD headquarters and later photographed. "One I.D. stretch band with 'Lee' inscribed" is listed on the DPD property form (Dallas Archives --- Box 1, folder 8, item 1).

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/25th_Issue/facts.html

Summing up the FBI tested a watch Lee was not wearing and failed to test a bracelet he definitely was wearing.

Interesting to note the FBI separated out the bracelet and did not assign it a Q number sequential with the ring and watch...Q87 and Q88

Ed

Edited by Ed LeDoux
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  • 1 month later...

Oswald's stretchband bracelet --- Whaley noticed Oswald's shiny bracelet on his left wrist. He explained to the Warren Commission "I always notice watchbands, unusual watchbands, and identification bracelets like these, because I make them myself ... It was just a common stretchband identification bracelet. A lot of them are made of chain links and not stretchbands (Vol 2 pg 293). Stretchbands are unusual because there is very few of them". A photograph of Oswald taken shortly after his arrival at DPD headquarters shows a bracelet on his left wrist. This bracelet was removed from Oswald's left wrist at DPD headquarters and later photographed. "One I.D. stretch band with 'Lee' inscribed" is listed on the DPD property form (Dallas Archives --- Box 1, folder 8, item 1).

http://www.acorn.net...ssue/facts.html

Summing up the FBI tested a watch Lee was not wearing and failed to test a bracelet he definitely was wearing.

Interesting to note the FBI separated out the bracelet and did not assign it a Q number sequential with the ring and watch...Q87 and Q88

Ed

For the sake of those who believe in John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee." Supposedly, Oswald, killed by Ruby, liked to be called "Harvey." "Lee" was the other Oswald -- and what became of him?

Kathy C

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