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Where is the CHECK/MO for Oswald's $10


David Josephs
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Even setting Markham and her "1:06 or 1:07" estimate aside for the moment

we could go with Markham and Bowley's just-as-sensible testimony that Tippit was shot between 1:05 and 1:07

In Barry Ernest's book, The GIrl on the Stairs, he found another witness who lived directly in the neighborhood who said she heard the shots at 1:06. The TV was on, and she looked at her clock when she heard the gun go off.

These three are the best witnesses as to the time element. (Markham became unreliable AFTER the shooting, when she panicked.)

Further, Barry's witness then looked out her door and saw someone running from the scene. It was not Oswald.

Funny, how she was not interviewed by the DPD or FBI.

Is this more corroboration that Tippit had been killed and wisked away very quickly...

DOA at 1:15.... now where have we seen THAT time before?

thanks again to Davenport... STILL like to know how he gets possession of the pistol in all this and why HE turns a pistol into CSS and not TLBaker.

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I meant "won't even get into...." Phone. Oh well.

Edited by Duke Lane
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I meant "won't even get into...." Phone. Oh well.

Edited by Duke Lane
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David:

So the break in the chain occurs after Hill?

Well, many have always suspected this guy, like the late Roger Feinman.

And I think Duke also.

Funny, the date on that report is 12-5.

Two weeks, and they still could not get the story straight.

They must have known early that the WC was going to be a joke.

Assuming you are directing to me Jim....

Hill turns the pistol over to Baker... Davenport fills out the CSS form with the original not scanned and the copy buried without reference to his name in Box 8.

Baker's detailed report in box 15-2-15 or 5-5-4 (better copy) does not mention Davenport and Baker's entire testimony has nothing to do with anything...

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_tl.htm

As I am going thru Box 9 and Davenport's name pops up on reports that are bunched in with other reports and NOT listed by his name in the index...

He turns over the pistol, turns live 38 rounds to the USSS without any reference as to where or why...

He is NOT called to testify...

Need to do a bit more digging here... you have anything specific re: Davenport?

DJ

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I've been messing around with iterations of doc #'s in the dpd database to see if there is a scanned copy (there often are and can be found by adding an integer to the gif #). I can't find a ref to this one : (so I don't know which box*** etc) http://jfk.ci.dallas...25/2504-003.gif

2504-003.gif

Is it known what this ''volume 14'' contains?

edit add : ***found it : 8 9 27

edit add more on 'hidden' dpd docs : eg: take

''Box 20: Folder 4 1. Memorandum, by Manuel Vasquez. Memorandum transferring radio transcript to the Records Division for transfer to the Dallas Municipal Archives and Records Center (DMARC), (Original), 02/10/92. 00003970 20 04 001

2. Radio Traffic Transcript, by an unknown author. Transcript of radio traffic from President's arrival at Love Field to the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00003971 20 04 002''

no gif links?.. however :

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/39/ + 3971-001.gif etc leads to numerous copies. I stopped at 22.

Similarly do for any other entry and you'll find lots more docs.

eg:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/39/3971-022.gif

3971-022.gif

Edited by John Dolva
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Yes I meant you.

No I don't have anything on Davenport.

But by all means, keep digging.

This is really getting interesting.

Ok Jim, thanks

Add the scratching out of POE for Davenport as the source for these hulls, "taken from oswald's gun"

and we begin to see the interesting saga of the shells hulls ands bullets that evening...

Even the inventory from Tippit has the # of 38 shells scratched out...

Need to ID ALL the hulls starting with the Q74-77 fiasco with Poe and Barnes... oh yes... what happened to Barnes?

He signs the form below when he specifically says he was not involved with the pistol

Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with identifying either the slugs that were eventually removed from Officer Tippit's body, or the pistol?

Mr. BARNES. No.

oops...

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Thanks John...

there is no BOX 39 - you do this for any other box #'s above 20? I will continue to look

When something like the folowing surfaces AGAIN... with Sawyer I believe once again saying that these items were found on the FIFTH (5th) floor...

as in the other transcripts - I guess it can be chalked up to a mistake, yet these men announce this at 1:11pm, AFTER a search...

Are we really to believe they did not know what floor they were on?

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Agree... need to understand which "volumes" they are discussing...

I finally found a report from Talbert on Tippit - as crappy as it appears, this is the BEST copy...... first though, no mention of Davenport in Talbert's testimony

yet it does talk about the shot to Tippit's right temple...

and finding Oswald IN THE BALCONY....

Sure would like to see Davenport's report... not sure if it will simple be the original of this... which in itself is very revealing

Davenport actually helps Tipppit our of the ambulance and such... and then we see Davenport change the time of DOA from 1:00pm to 1:15pm and confirm that Talbert

asks for the shell/button... at 1:30... somehow this becomest he time of DOA in Talbert's report...

Davenport seems to have his hands on an awful lot of Tippit evidence and yet he is not called, has only ONE entry in the call logs

12:41 258 (Ptm. R.A. Davenport) 258, Code 5.

and his reports are gone.... and not a single supervisor says a single word about him in their testimony... at least not that I've seen yet...

just keep digging, just keep digging... ;)

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Very interesting stuff about Volume 14? What the heck was in it?

And who was the witness who saw a rifleman on the second floor?

Jim,

this was either a miscommunication of "second floor from top" - or someone was hallucinating. It was impossible for anyone to fire from the second floor. All the windows were nailed shut because of the air conditioning.

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... In Barry Ernest's book, The GIrl on the Stairs, he found another witness who lived directly in the neighborhood who said she heard the shots at 1:06. The TV was on, and she looked at her clock when she heard the gun go off.

These three are the best witnesses as to the time element. (Markham became unreliable AFTER the shooting, when she panicked.)

Further, Barry's witness then looked out her door and saw someone running from the scene. It was not Oswald.

Funny, how she was not interviewed by the DPD or FBI.

A good point. I'm reminded of the maxim that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs."

While there's no particular reason to doubt Barry Ernest's account involving Mr. & Mrs. Higgins, there's also no particular reason to accept the Higgins' story at face value. Consider just two things: Mark Lane's canvass of the neighborhood in search of witnesses, and Larry Ray Harris' "penetration" into the neighborhood as a postal carrier, not to even mention all of the amateurs and hacks and maybe even official investigators (e.g., HSCA?) who have questioned people living in the area over the years.

I would be much more inclined to accept the Higgins' account of that Friday afternoon if we had some bona fides that they actually lived there at the time. Two sources of verification could be the phone books and City Directories published then: were they in either?

My experience over the years has been that people are willing to tell you anything you're willing to accept. One otherwise fine and upstanding citizen who exemplifies this is a retired DPD officer who regales visitors at Dealey Plaza with his role in Oswald's arrest at the Texas Theater: undercover as a "beatnik" on a drug operation, he describes how he helped wrestle Oswald into submission, apparently unaware that there were photographers snapping pictures that managed to, uh, help maintain his undercover status.

He is also apparently unaware that rosters provided by DPD to WC list him as a patrolman on the First Platoon out of the Northeast Division substation on the midnight-to-8:00 a.m. shift (Batchelor Exhibit 5002 at 19H122). The need for proofs of this man's involvement has just increased, wouldn't everyone agree?

Is there any reason that the same proofs - which is not necessarily to say "skepticism," although a healthy dose of it seldom hurts - shouldn't apply to civilians who purport to have a different take on the "official story?" Or should their claims be unquestioned because there's "no reason for them to lie," any more so than there is for the retired patrolman mentioned above?

Unfortunately, Dallas is in the midst of building a new school campus in the area, and most of the neighborhood around 10th & Patton has been razed (yes, including the Abundant Life Temple), and none of the past residents are in residence any longer, so it's not quite so easy to check out. There is also (no longer) a Donald R. Higgins listed in the phone book, and Mrs. Higgins' first name isn't mentioned in Ernest's text.

There are many elements of the story as related in the book that raise questions, but the more important aspect is that the fact of the story itself didn't apparently raise any. It's my opinion that anyone bringing forth new information has an obligation to provide bona fides, and that anyone who considers themselves to be a serious student of the assassination needs not to accept new information simply because someone, no matter how otherwise trustworthy, says it's so.

Rock-throwing may now commence.

:tomatoes:ice

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While there's no particular reason to doubt Barry Ernest's account involving Mr. & Mrs. Higgins, there's also no particular reason to accept the Higgins' story at face value. Consider just two things: Mark Lane's canvass of the neighborhood in search of witnesses....

“Mr. And Mrs. Donald R. Higgins managed the house at 417 East 10th Street, directly across the street from where Tippit was killed, but they were not called on to testify or questioned by agents of the Commission although they heard the shots and witnessed some events subsequent to the flight of the assailant.”

Mark Lane - RUSH TO JUDGMENT page 165 - Fawcett paperback edition 1966

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While there's no particular reason to doubt Barry Ernest's account involving Mr. & Mrs. Higgins, there's also no particular reason to accept the Higgins' story at face value. Consider just two things: Mark Lane's canvass of the neighborhood in search of witnesses....

"Mr. And Mrs. Donald R. Higgins managed the house at 417 East 10th Street, directly across the street from where Tippit was killed, but they were not called on to testify or questioned by agents of the Commission although they heard the shots and witnessed some events subsequent to the flight of the assailant."

Mark Lane - RUSH TO JUDGMENT page 165 - Fawcett paperback edition 1966

Nice one Robert.

My bad, based on a bad choice of words?

... In Barry Ernest's book, The Girl on the Stairs, he found another witness who lived directly in the neighborhood who said she heard the shots at 1:06. The TV was on, and she looked at her clock when she heard the gun go off.

According to Walt Brown's Global Index, the Higginses are also mentioned once in Garrison's On the Trail of the Assassins. Not for the purpose of discrediting them, but what else have they had to say, or have they merely been identified as having "heard the shots and witnessed some events," which, for the sake of saying so, were "subsequent to the flight of the assailant," which suggests that they didn't see the assailant(?).

There's also the curiosity why, if they were identified by 1964-65, they haven't been a more significant part of the discussion than one mention in each of two books, especially if they said something back then that flew in the face of the "official reconstruction." The point: is their 1:06 timestamp a new embellishment?

Not that it matters much: it's pretty clear between the statements of Markham and Bowley, along with a little "assassination logic," what time the shooting took place ... and it wasn't any 1:15!

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Garrison only mentions them briefly and in passing, and he uses as a source Mark Lane's book.

I talked to Barry. He said that he interviewed Mrs. Higgins in March of 1968. She told him that his was the first sit down, in depth interview anyone did with her.

Isn't that something. Neither the DPD nor the FBI ever talked to her.

Aint gonna go learn what you dont want to know....

btw - is this yet ANOTHER thread where DVP gets his hat handed to him and skulks off to lick wounds and regroup?

At the end of the day there is still

No idea how the coupon and $10 bill got to Seaport

No accounting for the $10 other than the internal ORDER FORM

No accounting for the $19.95 to or from REA

No accounting of the $1.27 received and deposited by REA

No proof as to how the murder weapon gets from Hill to Davenport and into evidence

So to be straight here... the pistol is much more a mystery than the rifle... and the bullets had gunk on them as if they were taken from an ammo belt...

and the vast majority of DPD officers use 38 Specials...

:ph34r:

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I talked to Barry. He said that he interviewed Mrs. Higgins in March of 1968. She told him that his was the first sit down, in depth interview anyone did with her.

Just goes to prove the old axiom about when ya "assume!" I just figured that a new book contained new information, not 43-year-old information! Outside of his first learning about the case, I never got a sense he was talking about 1968, and had an impression of a much later date throughout. Maybe 420 pages on a Kindle will do that to ya, reading only short snippits at a time!

For an in-depth interview, however, he really didn't say much about it at all, and really didn't portray it as such:

My chauffeur was at his car again. I walked over and asked him if he knew anyone still living in the neighborhood who had been a witness to the Tippit murder. He pointed to a house directly across the street from where the officer had been gunned down.

Ask for Mrs. Higgins, he said.

Like many of the older homes in that neighborhood, the house at 417 East 10th Street had been sectioned off into several apartments. I found Mr. and Mrs. Donald R. Higgins, co-managers, in Apartment B, which faced the scene of the crime. Mrs. Higgins came to the door at once but refused to talk with me when I mentioned my intent.

"Oh, let the young fella in," I heard a man say behind her. "He looks innocent enough." The voice belonged to Donald Higgins, who was seated in a reclining chair in the living room.

Mrs. Higgins had not been called to testify before the Warren Commission. She said neither the FBI nor the Dallas police questioned her either.

"Only some college kids came by shortly afterwards."[129]

I asked her what she remembered.

"All I'll tell you is that I was sitting right there [pointing to where her husband now sat], watching the news about the assassination when I heard the shots outside. It was a warm day and the front door was open."

"How many shots did you hear?"

"I clearly remember three shots, but there could have been one or two more. Two seemed close together and there seemed to be a pause before the final one."

After the shots, Mrs. Higgins said she heard screaming and immediately jumped up and ran to the door. She saw a police officer lying in the street slightly in front of the driver's side of the vehicle, and a man with a pistol in his right hand was moving in the direction of Patton Avenue, off to her right.

"That's all I know," Mrs. Higgins added.

So far, it sounded just as the Report had described it.

"Could you put a time to when you heard the shots?" I asked.

Mrs. Higgins glanced at her husband, who looked at me and then nodded to his wife.

"Well, it doesn't fit with what they are saying," she said.

"I understand," I offered. "How much is it off?"

She hesitated again. "Well, it was 1:06."

This was considerably earlier than the 1:16 p.m. time when the Report said the shooting took place. If accurate, my efforts to duplicate Oswald's walk were moot. There is no way he could have left his rooming house at 1:03 and arrived here by foot at 1:06.

"How can you be so sure of the time?"

"Well, I was watching the news on television and for some reason the announcer turned and looked at them and said the time was 'six minutes after one,'" Mrs. Higgins explained. "He said it just like that, 'six minutes after one.' And you know how you always do, you hear the time and you automatically check your own watch. So I just looked up at the clock on my television to verify the time and it said 1:06. At that point I heard the shots."

"Are you positive of the time?"

"Yes, I am. I'd bet my life on it."

"Do you know what this means then?" I persisted.

Mrs. Higgins looked at her husband and then back at me, but said nothing.

She knew.

"And the man you saw running away," I said. "What did he look like?"

Mrs. Higgins got noticeably upset and asked if I was writing a book. I assured her I was in Dallas only to satisfy my own curiosity.

She remained quiet.

"Can you describe him in any way, tell me anything about him? Any description?" Finally, I said, "Was that man Lee Oswald?"

Mrs. Higgins stared at me, not harshly, but more like my mother used to when she was trying to make a point.

"He definitely was not the man they showed on television," she sighed. "Is that what you wanted to hear?"

As long as it was the truth.

I thanked Mrs. Higgins for her time and trouble.

"Be careful," she told me on my way out her front door.

My friend was still puttering around his car as I approached. ....

© Ernest, Barry (2010-12-18). The Girl On The Stairs: My Search For A Missing Witness To The Assassination Of John F. Kennedy (pp. 89-91). Amazon.com. Kindle Edition.

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Thank you, Ed. That's interesting. I know it's a minor point, but it's interesting to know these things. Do you have a link to an image of the relevant type Meter 'Box'?

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