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Was Jack Dougherty the Low-Intelligence Guy He's Been Portrayed As Being?


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WC Testimony:

Ball: Did you ever leave the United States during the war?

Dougherty: Oh yes.

Ball: Where did you go?

Dougherty: Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana, Seymour, Ind.

lol

Chris,

He may have only just "caught himself" and changed his answer from "a top-secret OSS base in England for assassins, with primary emphasis in sniper activity" to "Seymour, Indiana."

Pretty smart cookie, actually, to not spill the beans like that. (lol)

-- Tommy :sun

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Tommy,

I read through that entire WC testimony and it's like a version of "who's on first?" in regards to his lunch and whether he ate before or after he heard "one loud noise" and his whereabouts at the time.

I also note he's never been married and still lives with his parents. He's 40 remember.

It does confirm he was a shipping clerk and that he would go down to the basement in the morning to check that the air pressure in the ADT Fire Alarm System was above 40 lbs. I don't know the details of this system so I have no idea if this is a legit concern.

Edited by Chris Newton
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Tommy,

I read through that entire WC testimony and it's like a version of "who's on first?" in regards to his lunch and whether he ate before or after he heard "one loud noise" and his whereabouts at the time.

I also note he's never been married and still lives with his parents. He's 40 remember.

It does confirm he was a shipping clerk and that he would go down to the basement in the morning to check that the air pressure in the ADT Fire Alarm System was above 40 lbs. I don't know the details of this system so I have no idea if this is a legit concern.

Chris,

So he either really was an idiot, or he was being evasive about something and "playing dumb,"

-- Tommy :sun

Edit: I've only read about two pages of his WC testimony so far and I can see that his grammar is pretty darn good for a "retard," but with one glaring mistake (or typo?) when he says "I been working there ever since." And a couple of possible "Texas-isms" like "hisself."

Two examples of good grammar are "I have been with them 11 years" and "it has something to do with the alarm system they have got down there."

Not bad for a slow-witted Texas dummy.

Edited by Thomas Graves
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  • 1 year later...

In his 11/22/1963 DPD statement, Dougherty says that he went to lunch at 12:00 and went back to work at 12:45. Did he go back to work 15 minutes early? Does anyone know if TSBD employees got an hour for lunch or only 45 minutes? Thanks!

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5 hours ago, Greg Wagner said:

In his 11/22/1963 DPD statement, Dougherty says that he went to lunch at 12:00 and went back to work at 12:45. Did he go back to work 15 minutes early? Does anyone know if TSBD employees got an hour for lunch or only 45 minutes? Thanks!

If his statements depict what happened, - he must have went back to work at least 10 minutes prior to 12:45pm.

In his affidavit from Nov 22nd, - he contradicts himself. Saying he went back to work at 12:45pm. Then in the very next sentence, - the well known description of him already having returned to work, - and had just come down to the fifth floor to get some stock (being one of the six guys who were laying floor, - at the sixth floor, all morning), ----- when he heard one shot. Went down to the first floor,-  then "back" to the sixth floor, - not seeing anyone, "except the people I named". (Lovelady, Shelley, Arce, Williams, and Givens.) So he had come down to the fifth floor, - from the sixth floor. When hearing the one shot . Apparently laying floor, - and then walking down the stairs one floor, - all while the assassin prepared to take the shots. What a mix - up.

Don't know if it is any point in trying to make some sense of it. Maybe he thought that the time was 12:45pm, when he went back to work, - and the shot that he heard, was fired (shortly) after that. Being wrong what the clock said. ------- Going back to work, - laying floor, - instead of watching the President go by.

Edited by Trygve V. Jensen
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Dougherty's Warren testimony is a load of contradictions. 

He thought the shots happened before he had his lunch, which was at twelve o"clock.

"Mr. BALL - And it also says, this report from Mr. Johnson, states that you told him that just prior to 12 noon you and five other men were working on the sixth floor. Were you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; we were working on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - What were you doing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was getting some stock off of the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL - You weren't helping the men lay floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you go down to lunch?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - To what floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - The first floor."

He thought that the East Elevator had buttons, then he thought it was the West one which had buttons.

"Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you take?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you see, there's one on this side and one on this side the one on this side is the one I took.
Mr. BALL - Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side," doesn't mean much when it's written down.
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I know it.
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me whether it was the east side or the west side elevator?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - East side.
Mr. BALL - Is it the one that you punch a button on? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - I believe that is the west side, isn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, I believe it is.

He said he asked Eddy Piper if the President had been shot, then denied he had asked him.

"Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, then immediately I heard a loud noise---it sounded like a car backfiring, and I came back down to the first floor, and I asked Eddie Piper, I said, "Piper, what was that?" I says, "Has the President been shot?'. He said, "Yes."
Mr. BALL - You didn't say--did you say, 'Has the President been shot?"---you told the FBI agent that you went down to the first floor and you saw a man named Eddie Piper and asked him if he heard a loud noise.

Mr. DOUGHERTY - I asked him that too.
Mr. BALL - And Piper said he had heard three loud noises and told you that somebody had Just shot the President; is that right?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - That's right.
Mr. BALL - Who mentioned the fact that the President had been shot first--- you or Eddie Piper?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL - Did you say anything to Piper about the President being shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - When you talked to Eddie Piper, did you know that the President had been shot?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't know that at the time.
Mr. BALL - When is the first time you heard that the President had been shot? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - When Eddie told me that.
Mr. BALL - Eddie told you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.

He said Shelley told him that he saw Oswald with a large package, when Shelley never said that in his testimony.

"Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did. 
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened. 

 

Shelley to the W.C.

"Mr. BALL - On the 22d of November 1963, did you see him come to work that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, he was at work when I got there already filling orders. 

Dougherty  was either completely stupid or a paid dis-informant.

Edited by Ray Mitcham
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1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Well, now, "The one on this side and the one on this side," doesn't mean much when it's written down.

I don't have an opinion about the level of  sophistication or deception of Mr Dougherty, but for the sake of others forming their own opinion, he sounds just like me when asked direction using terms I dont normally use for whatever or wherever it is. In addition - maybe not irrelevant - I have a "terrible sense of direction" which adds to the problem. I'm just saying this to throw some considerations towards the "not able" in some fields.

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