David Josephs Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Follow me aloing for a minute.... A lot has been written about the shells at the Tippit scene being described as AUTOMATICS by Hill 1:34 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill) The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol. and the comment back was how do the shells get so far away from the body if auto shells that eject after firing... that they HAD to be regualr shells that the killer emptied and threw here and there... My point? No one testifies to this person kneeling down to pick up these shells... How is it that we know the killer(s) didn't do that? I ask because the killer also went around to Tippit laying on the ground and shot him in the head... at quite an interesting angle.... yet the witnesses say no such thing.... Aren't Markham and Benavidas and SCoggins the BEST of the Tippit witnesses? Yet not one of them sees this final shot? [/color] Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I heard the other two shots (DJ: so we have the first TWO SHOTS and these OTHER TWO SHOTS) and I looked up and the Policeman was in, he seemed like he kind of stumbled and fell. Mr. BELIN - Did you see the Policeman as he fell? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - What else did you see? Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner. Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear? Mr. SCOGGINS. Three or four, in the neighborhood. They was fast. LIKE AN AUTOMATIC WEAPON?? Mr. BELIN. They were fast shots? Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; they were fast. Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or say or hear? Mr. SCOGGINS. Then I saw the man falling, grab his stomach and fall. Mr. BELIN. Which man did you see fall? Mr. SCOGGINS. The policeman. I was excited when I heard them shots, and I started to get out-- since we went back over there the other day and reenacted that scene, I must have seen him fall as I was getting out of my cab, because I got out of the cab, and in the process of getting out of the cab I seen this guy coming around, so I got out of sight. I started to cross the street, but I seen I didn't have enough time to cross the street before he got down there, so I got back behind the cab, and as he cut across that yard I heard him running into some bushes, and I looked up and seen him going south on Patton and then when I jumped back in my cab I called my dispatcher. Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear? Mrs. MARKHAM. Three. Mr. BALL. What did you see the policeman do? Mrs. MARKHAM. He fell to the ground, and his cap went a little ways out on the street. Mr. BALL. What did the man do? Mrs. MARKHAM. The man, he just walked calmly, fooling with his gun. Mr. BALL. Toward what direction did he walk? Mrs. MARKHAM. Come back towards me, turned around, and went back. Mr. BALL. Toward Patton? Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir; towards Patton. He didn't run. It just didn't scare him to death. He didn't run. When he saw me he looked at me, stared at me. I put my hands over my face like this, closed my eyes. I gradually opened my fingers like this, and 1 opened my eyes, and when I did he started off in kind of a little trot. Mr. BALL. Which way? Mrs. MARKHAM. Sir? Mr. BALL. Which way? Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way. Tippit autopsy report Can ANYONE provide PROOF, that Tippit was shot in the head at 10th and Patton... according to this FBI report... Dr. Liguori does not mention a headwound at all and bullets are removed in the ambulance, at Methodist AND at Parkland??? We KNOW he was shot in the head.... Why didn't anybody see it? How is it possible that these three BEST WITNESSES do not recall an execution style shot to the head? and to bring this full circle... Seems very likely then that if they missed what is assumed to have happened BEFORE the killer runs away, they would easily have missed him picking up the shells.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Yes he did Jim... yet not until 1978 at the HSCA What's his story about not giving any statements prior to this? And I also notice he says both were coming East on 10th.... fwiw Below that is Cimino's statement... which ends with him seeing the hole in the head... Yet still Jim... how do all the eye witnesses miss this last shot? 3-4 RAPID shots (cause it was an automatic pistol) a pause and then a single shot.... Markham, Scoggins AND DB miss that.... and why are each of these statements so similiar? FRANCIS KINNETH, 1425 Caidwell, Dallas, Texas, advised he was employed on a construction job at the intersection of Denver and Tenth Street, Dallas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. He advised at approximately 1:00 PM he had heard approximately two or three shots and, looking in a westerly direction, he saw a parked police car and a uniform police officer lying on the ground in front of same. At the same time he observed an individual running west on Tenth Street turning south on a street, the name of which he does not know. ELBERT AUSTIN, 8317 Fourth Avenue, Dallas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was working on a construction job at the intersection of Tenth and Denver Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised he was a brick mason's helper and was assisting in the construction of an apartment house. Me stated sometime after 1:00 PM he was on a scaffold in front of the aforementioned apartment house when he heard approximately two or three shots and, looking in a westerly direction, he saw a policeman lying in front of a police car on the left front side. L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/tatum.htm BAYLOR UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER Wednesday, Feb. 1st, 1978. OFFICE OF PHOTO DEPARTMENT OF HOBIEZELLE HOSPITAL 3500 GASTON AVE, DALLAS, TEXAS. Investigators Jack Moriarty and Joe Basteri, menders of the Select Committee on Assassinations, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington., D.C. are in the office of the Director of Photography of the hospital mentioned above, and Mr. JACK RAY TATUM, The Director, has been interviewed with regard to his first hand knowledge, of the Fatal shooting of Officer J.D. Tippit, here in Dallas, Friday, November 22nd, 1963. Mr. Tatum will reiterate his statement to be reduced to typewritten form (By Moriarty) "Mr. Tatum, if you'll repeat your statement slowly, I'll attempt to type it." Although I did not remember the exact time I remember it was early in the afternoon on Friday, November 22, 1963. I was driving XXXX north on Denver and stopped at 10th St. when I first saw the squad car and men walking on the sidewalk near the squad car. Both the squad car and this young white male were coming in my direction(East on 10th Street). At the time I was just approaching the squad car, I noticed this young white male with both hands in the pockets of his zippered jacket leaning over the passenger side of the squad car. This young white male was looking into the squad car from the passenger side. The next thing I knew I heard something that sounded like gun shots as I approached the intersection. (10th & Patton). I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson. Q. Did you know Lee Harvey Oswald, Officer Tippit or anyone else at the scene. A. No Q Did you not report this information to the authorities? A. There were more than enough people there and I could not see what I could contribute. Q. Is there anything you wish to add to your statement? A. At this time I can't think or anything. Jack Moriarty Joe Basteri Jack R. Tatum Feb, 1 1978 FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream. (DJ: This corroborates Helen's story along with a number of others... 1:06 is yet again supported) He jumped up. put on his shoes and ran outside the house, and a woman dressed like a waitress was out in front of his residence shouting, "Call the police". She also advised a man had just shot a police officer and stated he had run west on Tenth Street and pointed in the direction of an alley which runs between Tenth Street and Jefferson off Patton Street. He looked in this direction but did not see anyone. He then walked over to the officer and saw he had been shot in the head. and finally Jim... if you or I or anyone saw this person running doing ANYTHING and then, after Oswald is captured and given those ridiculous line-ups...is asked to ID which in the line-up they saw... or which in a photo they saw... Oswald comes to mind... no? Edited January 21, 2012 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) How is it possible that these three BEST WITNESSES do not recall an execution style shot to the head? I have several questions of my own. One is that if the killer walked up to Tippit and shot him in the head execution-style while he was lying on the ground, and Oswald was that killer, why is there no evidence of Tippit's blood being found on Oswald's shoes and/or pant legs ? Edited January 21, 2012 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 thx Duncan... do you have video of the others arrested looking like Oswald... I thought there was one or two more... One in Dallas (?) Cheers DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I didn' t know House looked like Oswald. He looks ALOT like him... right? Now I have a few more problems with this TIPPIT thing... What is being done to Tippit from 1:25 DOA until 3:15 when Rose finally starts the autopsy...? Why to Methodist if he was DOA, when Parkland does the autopsies? Which ambulance picks him up? 601,2,3,5,6,7, or 10? or a Dudley ambulance... do we have those records? I also want to go back to this FBI report... At Methodist, although a bad copy, Liguori does mention the temple shot..... yet only 2 other wounds... one being the brass button wound, from which Moellenhoff gives Davenport the bullet, the other a wound to the abdomen.. Except Rose, at Parkland, describes 4 wounds with 3 bullets recovered.... Why would Methodist remove a bullet from a dead cop at the request of another cop BEFORE the autopsy? Isn't that tampering with evidence? What is going on prior to the autopsy so that 5 shots becomes 3 wounds, becomes 4 wounds and only 3 bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 thanks david interesting..b PATHOLOGY LABORATORY Autopsy Number: M63 =96 352 Name: Tippit, J.D. Age: 39 Race: White Sex: Male Admitted: 11/22/63 DOA Expired: Autopsy date: 11/22/63 3:15 P.M. Service: Autopsy by: Earl F. Rose, M.D. Coroner: Judge Joe B. Brown, Jr. Restrictions: None External Examination: External examination reveals a well developed white male measuring = 5 foot, ii inches in length and weighing an estimated 175 o 180 pounds. = The hair is black, slightly wavy, very slight frontal balding. The = irrides are blue, the pupils are equal at 5 mm. Rigor is not present. = Very slight posterior mottled lividity and body heat is present. Oral = hygiene is good. The neck is not remarkable. Hair distribution is = normal, the penis is circumcised. Identification bands on the left = wrist, right wrist, and left ankle. There are four entrance type wounds. No. 1 is 4 =BE inches from = the top of the head and 3 =BE inches to the right of the midline. This = measures 3/8 x =BC inches and is surrounded by a contusion ring. No = powder tattooing is noted at the margins. Wound No. 2 is 17 inches from the top of the head on the right = chest. It is 4 inches to the right of the midline, above and slightly = medial to the right nipple. It measures 3/8 x =BC of an inch, surrounded = by bruising. There is also some contusion. Wound No. 3 is 21 inches from the top of the head, along the = anterior lateral side of the right chest and is 6 inches to the right of = the midline. This measures 5/16 x =BC of an inch and is surrounded by a = contusion ring. Wound No. 4 on the left chest is 20 =BD inches from the top of the = head, 1 =BC inches to the left of the midline. The wound measures =BE x = 3/8 of an inch, is transverse and surrounding this is a =BC x =BE inch = abrasion. There is tanning of the arms. On the left arm there is a tattoo = being "Tippit". On the dorsum of the left hand there is a crusted = abraded area measuring =BC x =BC inch and a fresh abraded area on the = dorsum of the right hand which measures =BC x =BC inch. The nails are = quite well cared for although slightly dirty. Scar above the left knee, = runs in an oblique fashion, crosses to the medial aspect of the knee, = terminates on the leg measuring 7 inches. Poorly defined =BC inch = inoculation type of scar on the left deltoid region. 16 =BD inches from the top of the head, =BE of an inch to the = right of the midline of the back in the subcutaneous tissue a missile is = recovered from this region. This is associated with Wound No. 3. INCISIONS: The standard "Y" thoracoabdominal and intermastoid = incisions are utilized. Examination of the wound of the right temple is = made. T is found to enter in the right middle cranial fossa, pursues a = course which is slightly upward, backward, and to the left. There is = fracturing about the entrance and extensive fractures as it strikes the = left occipitoparietal bone. It is recovered on this region, 3 inches to = the left of the midline and approximately 1 inch from the top of the = head. Examination of the brain is made. The brain weighs 1350 gm. The = course of the missile through the brain is followed. It is found to = enter the right temporal lobe, coursed through the brain transecting the = brain stem, severing the cerebral peduncles surrounded by extensive = hemorrhage, and found to exit from the brain substance in the calcerine = gyrus to the left of the midline. There are penetrations of the meninges = in the regions deseribed. (sic) Examination of the brain is otherwise = unremarkable. The abdominal measures up to 7/8 of an inch. The organs are in the = normal position. Examination of the serous cavity is made. There is = found to be extensive peritoneal hemorrhage, approximately 300 cc. In = the right pleural space there is in excess of 1000 cc of blood. THE COURSES OF THE MISSILES ARE FOLLOWED: The wound described as = No. 2 is found to go between the second and third rib. The missile is = found to penetrate the anterior edge of the right upper lobe. The bullet = is found to go into the pericardial sac, there is extensive hemorrhage = in the pericardial sac, approximately 4 ounces. Passes through the = superior vena cava. It emits into the mediastinum, strikes the fourth = thoracic vertebra to the left of the midline, courses in the substance = of the vertebra and is recovered slightly to the left of the vertebra = approximately 16 inches from the top of the head, having pursued a = course very slightly upward, to the left, and backwards. Wound No. 3 is found to penetrate the chest wall as externally = described, is surrounded by hemorrhage, notching the dorsum of the sixth = rib slightly lateral to the costochondral junction. It penetrates the = anterior edge of the right lower lobe of the lung, the diaphragm, = penetrates the liver, the entrance wound to the liver and laceration = which is approximately 3 x 2.5 cm. It pursues a course backward, upward, = and to the left and is recovered from the soft tissue of the back, 16 = =BD inches from the top of the head and =BE of an inch to the right of = the midline. In its course it is also found to again penetrate the = diaphragm after going through the liver and penetrates the posterior = aspect of the right lower lobe. Wound No. 4 is examined. It is found to be superficial and = penetration of the rib cage is noted. There is hemorrhage beneath the = abraded and bruised area adjacent to the wound. No missiles are present = in this area. LUNGS: The lungs together weigh 1200 gm. The penetrations of the = lung have previously been described. There are areas of atelectasis and = along the course of the bullet through the lung there is extensive = hemorrhage. LIVER: The liver weighs 1670 gm. The penetrations of the liver = have previously been described. The cut surface of the liver is not = remarkable. GALL BLADDER & BILIARY TREE: Not remarkable. PORTACAVAL SYSTEM: Not remarkable. KIDNEYS: The kidneys together weigh 350 gm. The capsule strips = quite easily and they are pale. ADRENALS: Not remarkable. SPLEEN: The spleen weighs 100 gm. The capsule is smooth. The cut = surface is not remarkable. HEART: The heart weighs 320 gm. There is an epicardial ecchynosis, = anterior surface, left ventricle. This is at the apex. The coronary = arteries are opened in situ. They are found to be of good caliber, free = of occlusions. The valves are not remarkable. The myocardium grossly is = not remarkable. PANCREAS: Not remarkable. INTESTINAL TRACT: The stomach contains partially digested food, = approximately 5 oz. The duodenum is not remarkable. The small and large = bowel are not remarkable. The appendix is present. MUSCULO-SKELETAL SYSTEM: The musculo-skeletal system is not = remarkable except for the previously described bullet injuries. LYMPHATICS: Not remarkable. FINDINGS: Gunshot wound to the head. Brain parenchynal damage and hemorrhage. Gunshot wounds of the chest. Penetrations of the right lung, superior vena cava, and liver. Right hemothorax. Peritoneal hemorrhage. Pericardial hemorrhage with cardiac tamponade. CAUSE OF DEATH: Gunshot wounds of the head and chest. Earl F. Rose, M.D. JWM notes: There are accompanying anterior and posterior body = diagrams showing the location of the external wounds, including a = separate diagram for the head. Additionally, there are accompanying = negative toxicological and blood reports identifying the blood type as = "A" and no traces of alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin Griffin Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 What you see highlighted in yellow has to me this lady was talking about, that' exactly what I did that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 On 1/23/2012 at 3:45 PM, David Josephs said: Which ambulance picks him up? 601,2,3,5,6,7, or 10? or a Dudley ambulance... do we have those records? http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm 1:16 PM 603 (ambulance) 603, Code 5, Baylor. 602 (ambulance) Code 6(?). 1:19 PM 602 What was that address on Jefferson? Dispatcher 501 East Tenth. 602 Code 6. 605 Code 5. 1:22 PM 602 602 in service 603 603 out, Baylor (Siren) 1:24 PM 605 605, Code 6 1:26 PM Dispatcher Do you knnow what ambulance took him? We had three going. 550/2 Sgt. G.L. Hill No. Dudley Hughes passed in front of me going to Beckley. He looked like he might have had him. Dispatcher 602 Dalla Police Codes: http://www.bearcat1.com/radiotx.htm Code 5: En route Code 6: Arrived https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2015/09/vintage-color-photos-of-oak-cliff-and-dallas/ “Here is a picture of the Dudley M. Hughes Funeral Home, also dated 1956. But if it is the Hughes funeral home on East Jefferson, right across the street from the aforementioned auto shop, it likely is dated wrong as well. The funeral home is named in the Warren Commission Report because in the 1960s, it was the ambulance dispatch center for southern Dallas. Being so close to the site of the Tippit murder, a Hughes ambulance was one of the first on the scene.” Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cross Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Franklin Griffin said: What you see highlighted in yellow has to me this lady was talking about, that' exactly what I did that day. Thanks for posting Mr. Griffin! So you were on site of the Tippit murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Franklin Griffin said: What you see highlighted in yellow has to me this lady was talking about, that' exactly what I did that day. Mr. Griffin, I guess you're the author of Touched By Fire. http://www.franklingriffin.com/ Touched by fire : one man's road from Phenix City to Dallas, 1954-1963 / by Griffin, Frank ; Patterson, John ; Heyrman, Peter Latrobe . https://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Frank-Griffin/dp/0615254500 Paperback: 189 pages Publisher: Bear Press (September 22, 2008) “Summary: "In 1954 Johnnie Frank Griffin witnessed the violent death of Attorney General-elect Albert Patterson, of Alabama. Six months later he told a grand jury what he knew. The next day he was stabbed. Though his wounds seemed slight, that night he died in a hospital built from the profits of crime. Nine years later, just minutes after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Johnnie Frank's son, Frank Griffin, saw Lee Harvey Oswald fleeing the scene of the murder of a Dallas police officer. Between these two events Frank Griffin had come of age in one of the strangest decades in American history. His story touches that of one of the era's best known governors, John Patterson of Alabama. It intersects with mob bosses and CIA operations. There's even room for country music and barroom brawls. This story shows how Frank Griffin's life was truly Touched By Fire."--Back Cover. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Franklin Griffin said: What you see highlighted in yellow has to me this lady was talking about, that' exactly what I did that day. Frank - What do you mean - That's exactly what I did that day? And please, can you place yourself in this map? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: Frank - What do you mean - That's exactly what I did that day? And please, can you place yourself in this map? Thanks David, I was going to ask Mr. Griffin what he was doing in that driveway. From: Harvey and Lee. by By John Armstrong http://harveyandlee.net/November/November_22.htm (as you know, there's a larger sized map of that location in Armstrong's web page) 400 E. 10th St.… 404 E. 10th St…. 410 E. 10th St. “Tippit's familiarity to local residents could be understood by the WC testimony of Virginia Davis, who lived in the house next door (400 E. 10th) to where Tippit was shot and killed (404 E. 10th). Davis was asked by Commission attorney David Belin "Where was the police car parked?" Davis answered, "It was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he (Tippit) lives in (410 E. 10th) and the house next door (404 E. 10th)." According to Virginia Davis' testimony, Officer Tippit was living in the house at 410 E. 10th. If Tippit lived in this house (actually a duplex apartment--410 E. 10th in the front, 408 E. 10th in the rear), or was having an affair with a woman living in this house (Johnny Maxie Thompson),...” I guess there was no 406 E. 10th? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: 400 E. 10th St.… 404 E. 10th St…. 410 E. 10th St. I believe each of the houses was a duplex.... maybe no one was living in 406 or 408 at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 J.D.Tippit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 J.D Tippit Credit: James Richards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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