The Education Forum

# BELL vs ZAPRUDER

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It's always nice to have common objects in different films.

For instance, the couple in the background of Z381, and the shadow caused by the overpass in Z469.

That's a span of 88 Zframes. http://24.152.179.96:8400/DED86/common.png

Both are seen in the Bell gif I have supplied.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/71131/common.gif

The Bell gif is 80 frames.

There is a BIG PROBLEM with these two segments.

It takes the limo approx the same amount of frames from what we see in Bell, as what we see in Z, for the rear end of the limo to be covered by the overpass shadow.

What's the problem???

Look at the position of the limo in relation to the couple in both films.

They are not even close, yet it takes the approx same number of frames for the limo to reach it's common point.

Reality says the limo should be much farther down the street than what we see in Z381 in order to match the frame count in Bell.

Now, think of the SS followup car as being in the approx position the limo is at Z381.

This should give you a pretty good idea as to how much time was erased from Z.

As a measuring tool, I used the light pole down on the north side of Elm, just ahead of the limo, that we see in the beginning of Bell.

Then timed how long it takes for the SS followup car to get to the same position.

It looks like at least 5 seconds and probably even longer.

chris

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It's always nice to have common objects in different films.

For instance, the couple in the background of Z381, and the shadow caused by the overpass in Z469.

That's a span of 88 Zframes. http://24.152.179.96:8400/DED86/common.png

Both are seen in the Bell gif I have supplied.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/71131/common.gif

The Bell gif is 80 frames.

There is a BIG PROBLEM with these two segments.

It takes the limo approx the same amount of frames from what we see in Bell, as what we see in Z, for the rear end of the limo to be covered by the overpass shadow.

What's the problem???

Look at the position of the limo in relation to the couple in both films.

They are not even close, yet it takes the approx same number of frames for the limo to reach it's common point.

Reality says the limo should be much farther down the street than what we see in Z381 in order to match the frame count in Bell.

Now, think of the SS followup car as being in the approx position the limo is at Z381.

This should give you a pretty good idea as to how much time was erased from Z.

As a measuring tool, I used the light pole down on the north side of Elm, just ahead of the limo, that we see in the beginning of Bell.

Then timed how long it takes for the SS followup car to get to the same position.

It looks like at least 5 seconds and probably even longer.

chris

Or perhaps how much MORE time was erased from Zapruder than Bell. (Also notice the man in Bell reacting in shock not at anything regarding the Presidential Limo, but rather at the Queen Mary passing.)

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It's always nice to have common objects in different films.

For instance, the couple in the background of Z381, and the shadow caused by the overpass in Z469.

That's a span of 88 Zframes. http://24.152.179.96:8400/DED86/common.png

Both are seen in the Bell gif I have supplied.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/71131/common.gif

The Bell gif is 80 frames.

There is a BIG PROBLEM with these two segments.

It takes the limo approx the same amount of frames from what we see in Bell, as what we see in Z, for the rear end of the limo to be covered by the overpass shadow.

What's the problem???

Look at the position of the limo in relation to the couple in both films.

They are not even close, yet it takes the approx same number of frames for the limo to reach it's common point.

Reality says the limo should be much farther down the street than what we see in Z381 in order to match the frame count in Bell.

Now, think of the SS followup car as being in the approx position the limo is at Z381.

This should give you a pretty good idea as to how much time was erased from Z.

As a measuring tool, I used the light pole down on the north side of Elm, just ahead of the limo, that we see in the beginning of Bell.

Then timed how long it takes for the SS followup car to get to the same position.

It looks like at least 5 seconds and probably even longer.

chris

Nix ending frame. Altgen's last photo of limo.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/D0EA4/Nix_Ends

Jackie starts her "too fast" slide back into her seat.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/DFF7C/J2.gif

Z doesn't fit with Bell. Previous post.

Bell film starts after previous mentioned actions.

Add selective splicing to the mix.

All occurring around the same time.

chris

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It's always nice to have common objects in different films.

For instance, the couple in the background of Z381, and the shadow caused by the overpass in Z469.

That's a span of 88 Zframes. http://24.152.179.96:8400/DED86/common.png

Both are seen in the Bell gif I have supplied.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/71131/common.gif

The Bell gif is 80 frames.

There is a BIG PROBLEM with these two segments.

It takes the limo approx the same amount of frames from what we see in Bell, as what we see in Z, for the rear end of the limo to be covered by the overpass shadow.

What's the problem???

Look at the position of the limo in relation to the couple in both films.

They are not even close, yet it takes the approx same number of frames for the limo to reach it's common point.

Reality says the limo should be much farther down the street than what we see in Z381 in order to match the frame count in Bell.

Now, think of the SS followup car as being in the approx position the limo is at Z381.

This should give you a pretty good idea as to how much time was erased from Z.

As a measuring tool, I used the light pole down on the north side of Elm, just ahead of the limo, that we see in the beginning of Bell.

Then timed how long it takes for the SS followup car to get to the same position.

It looks like at least 5 seconds and probably even longer.

chris

Or perhaps how much MORE time was erased from Zapruder than Bell. (Also notice the man in Bell reacting in shock not at anything regarding the Presidential Limo, but rather at the Queen Mary passing.)

Hi Daniel,

No matter how it's sliced, it comes up sour grapes.

chris

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From Gerda over at Duncan's forum:

Chris,

the Bell sequence with the limo towards the underpass does not have 80 frames in the original version. The Lost Bullet Bell sequence you chose for your example is 80+ frames because it is slowed down and contains inbetween frames that were created because NG used a slo-mo filter on them.

I'll post more when I have the time...

Thanks Gerda,

I did not know they had created extra movement frames by using a slow motion filter.

The gif I created shows the movement in each frame.

Do you have a copy of an original Bell, (not Grodens), which shows this segment in its entirety?

thanks,

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson
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From Gerda over at Duncan's forum:

Chris,

the Bell sequence with the limo towards the underpass does not have 80 frames in the original version. The Lost Bullet Bell sequence you chose for your example is 80+ frames because it is slowed down and contains inbetween frames that were created because NG used a slo-mo filter on them.

I'll post more when I have the time...

Thanks Gerda,

I did not know they had created extra movement frames by using a slow motion filter.

The gif I created shows the movement in each frame.

Do you have a copy of an original Bell, (not Grodens), which shows this segment in its entirety?

thanks,

chris

process is called EXTRAPOLATION -or- extrapolate: wanna change a films speed (fps) to a slower speed, a computer software algorithm will create/output "tween'ers". Used frequently these days, especially in commercials used extensively in space/animation flicks -- technique dates back to the 40's utilized with optical printers

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Hi David,

Thank you for the info.

So, if I wanted to convert from slower to faster, lets say 18 to 24fps, would this include the same process?

chris

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Hi David,

Thank you for the info.

So, if I wanted to convert from slower to faster, lets say 18 to 24fps, would this include the same process?

chris

Chris,

Better yet, I suspect MPI, when they created the NEW and IMPROVED Z-film for DVD release, they probably took their finished assembly of the 3, or 4x5trannies of the NARA in-camera original Z-frames, created a Z-film output .mov (digital file format-Quicktime) file rated at 18.3fps. Created another file off of the original .mov (Quicktime, in After Affects say) output that file to 30fps .mov which became the DVD master dupe file. Interpolating is one of the reasons you see when "stepping" through the frames, double frames (in places--determined by formula and algorithm) between original (alleged original in-camera) Zapruder frames.

Your question: take your 18.3 frame digital file piece into a program like Adobe After Effects, tell it in (the movie sequence output window) to render you a version of the file at 24fps... I doubt the untrained eye will notice much slowdown (the Z-film is a short piece and your adding 6 additional frames per original film run-time second) in the final product, but what you WILL notice, when you step through it frame by frame is copies of original frames added to the piece. And yes, this is interpolation between frames.

Definition of INTERPOLATE

transitive verb

1 : to alter or corrupt (as a text) by inserting new or foreign matter b : to insert (words) into a text or into a conversation

2 : to insert between other things or parts

3 : to estimate values of (data or a function) between two known values

Edited by David G. Healy