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Three Tramps - Wise, Bass & Mystery Man


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Very interesting thought Richard about them all being "bad guys" yet a variety of DPD men ID themselves as being in those pictures...

I am requoting the original post as many of the questions are answered there....

http://jfkassassinationfiles.com/fbi_124-10180-10305 page 6... Townsend, Stepars(?), Macky claim they are in photos #5 and #3 respectively...

DOYLE states that they were SENTENCED to 6 days in jail yet only served 2-3 and were released...

Wise on the other hand, has these three paraded to Decker and then released THAT DAY...

Could the DPD be so corrupted that they literally assisted in the escape of the RR yard team? Or was the parade an opportunity to yet have even more accomplices escape?

We need more info on CHAMBERS, MIDDLETON, VAUGHN, HARKNESS... http://jfkassassinationfiles.com/fbi_124-10179-10310 this report is crucial as it completely contradicts the written evidence and testimony

of these men....

The rpoerts of Wise are amazing in the lack of security related to these men... no cuffs, escorted around, to and from Decker/Fritz in a car with onoly 1 policeman where Wise tells us that one of the suspects

sits next to him, also uncuffed.... not exactly worried about these guys... are they?

Would there happen to be any "interviews" of men in jail that weekend WITH these tramps? They might have heard a pretty good stroy from these OTHER tramps

DJ

After searching the Forum for TRAMPS... I still find a variety of different opinions and conclusions...

The first being the discrepency between Wise's FBI interview where he talks about MIDDLETON being part of the three tramp escort team with him and Bass

EXCEPT, Middleton claims he did not work 11/22/63 http://jfkassassinat...124-10273-10392

MORE IMPORTANTLY is the statement by Wise that he and BASS escorted the three tramps and that they are in all the pictures..

WiseFBIreportHEandBasstheONLYcopsinphotos.jpg

Well, not so much as I have combined the images and we see that the cops in the Landsdale photo are NOT the same as in the other photos, especially the man in front...

Could this be Vaughn who magically becomes Bass and disappears? The WC only asks Vaugh about the Oswald murder... not a thing about the tramps...

Threetrampsphoto-notthesamecopinfront.jpg

Well - Mr Wise here does not seem to get anything right about that day...

and then when we add Chambers, whose name appears on the three "Arrest Reports on Investigative Prisoner", yet his memory of the incident is even worse...

http://jfkassassinat...124-10180-10305 go to page 4 of these hand writtne notes and find that a bit was left out of the final report....

http://jfkassassinat...124-10151-10221 on page 2 of the Doyle FBI interview they state that the three men had gone to a mission in the morning of 11/22 and took showers and cleaned up and had a noon meal

Yet when looking at all the notes from Wise and other, these men were "Filthy and smelled badly". They had no socks as well...

And finally, Wise was told "They were released" after spending 5 minutes in Decker's office... he does not see them leaving the usual way... and each of the "Arrest Reports" has them discharged on the 26th... 4 days later...

1) Can we confirm who the policemen in the photos are? Who is Wise, Bass, Middleton (who said he was not there) and Vaughn?

2) Were there two sets of tramps? AS these men were definitely not "filthy and smelly" from appearance and Doyle states they had just showered and cleaned up...

3) Doyle states that he and the other two were "convicted of Vagrancy" and sent to jail for 6 days yet were released early... Is there any proof of this?

mug shots? DPD paperwork of any kind? http://jfkassassinat...124-10151-10221

What I see is an unidentified man with an earpiece who'se uniform does not match the man at the rear whose uniform is ill fitting and seems quite short for a cop while barely "guarding" three suspects taken from an area believed to have been the source of shots...

Now why parade these men when they should have been handcuffed and placed in a car - is the real question...

False Sponsors? designed to take up valuable time and effort... which they did and continue to do?

Wise tells us that he speaks to the man in the control tower (Bowers) who mentioned the three men getting into a coal car... Wise and Vaughn retrieve them (Wise is not called to testify and Vaughn is asked ONLY about the Oswald murder)

Finally, Chanbers signs the reports and has no memory of creating them...

If we assume that nothing was done without a purpose that day, and the problems with the descriptions, personnel and events related to these three are plainly obvious... I believe we MUST look at them in the context of the three men who ran out of the back of the TSBD, got into the station wagon, and easily glided onto Elm in the midst of the assassiantion aftermath to stop, pick up an Oswald, and easily ride off -

It does not add up and we must continue to find this connection...

DJ

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David, another odd tidbit in Marvin Wise written description grabbed my interest. After mentioning several times how embarrassed he was to be relegated to escorting these 3 "smelly, filthy" tramps around, he goes back later in the afternoon to make sure that he gets proper credit for being the officer who apprehended them. Just another anomaly, no doubt, but they do tend to pile up as you read through his statement.

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Fletcher Prouty,s letter to Jim Garrison touches on Ed Lansdale.Well worth a read IMHO,take a look here.

http://www.prouty.org/letter.html

The cop on the left in post 21 looks a bit like Roscoe White to me. (emphasis added by T. Graves)

http://www.spartacus...k/JFKwhiteR.htm

I wonder why he's lagging so far behind. To get a message or a handoff from the "Lansdale" character?

--Tommy :sun

Maybe not to get a message from the Lansdale character, but rather, to transfer a weapon to the Lansdale character... Well, I doubt that, due to violations of trade-craft, but it is consistent with the manner in which he is carrying the gun. It looks like he's preparing to give it to the man. I can not think of any other reason for a police officer to be holding his gun in that manner. On the other hand, this whole photo might be nothing more than a deliberate distraction. Fletcher used to say it seemed as though Lansdale was there to offer "assurances" that everything was under control.

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  • 7 months later...

One of my favorite in fact... the range of expression and emotion...

Tom,

if that's Hunt... blink.gif

{sigh}

cheers

DJ

DPafter.jpg

Could the guy (standing to the left of center in the group of people; below) who is wearing the light-colored fedora with the wide, black hatband be the same guy (E. Howard Hunt?) who was captured near the left edge of the Cancellare, above?

Image23.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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On 1/25/2013 at 6:52 PM, Thomas Graves said:
On 2/1/2012 at 9:45 PM, David Josephs said:

One of my favorite in fact... the range of expression and emotion...

Tom,

if that's Hunt... blink.gif

{sigh}

cheers

DJ

DPafter.jpg

Could the guy (standing to the left of center in the group of people; below) who is wearing the light-colored fedora with the wide, black hatband be the same guy (E. Howard Hunt?) who was captured near the left edge of the Cancellare, above?

Image23.jpg

--Tommy :sun

Hi Tommy...

Seems there are quite a few men with that type hat... so I'm not sure...

What I did try was to locate him on Houston near Main as that seems to be were he may have come from.... the giveaway for me is that Hunt does not crease his hat...

It stays rounded at the top... the man you point to has a crease in the hat...

post-1587-0-06804600-1359393745_thumb.jpg

post-1587-0-66047800-1359393849_thumb.jpg

Edited by David Josephs
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  • 5 years later...

Just bringing this old post back to the top, having looked at the photos I believe the cops aren't different but have just swapped positions. 

COP 2 (labels in blue), starts at the back. Notice the similarities:

1. 3 parts of badges above pocket

2. Visible cuff badge

3. Short trousers

In the first photo with Lansdale he appears relaxed with his hat tipped back (maybe he straightened it when he saw photographers).

COP 1 (labels in red) starts at front, then swaps to back. Notice:

1. Single name badge above pocket

2. 3 dots on belt

3. Visible cuff badge

So for some reason COP 2 who was at the back to start with, has tidied his cap and moved to the front. I wonder if this is because hes higher ranking and saw photographers?

IGNORE WHITE ARROWS, THEY WERE PRESENT ON PHOTO ALREADY

A.jpg

B.jpg

C.jpg

D.jpg

Edited by Lewis Reynolds
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I just noticed something I had not before.  In the first photo, the man labeled "COP 1" looks to be wearing loafer style shoes.  Unfortunately, the shoes are not visible in the other photos and even in the 1st photo are not absolutely clear.  Has anyone else seen this?  Are these officers definitely identified by anyone?  This seems to me, odd.  I don't think I have ever seen a uniformed police officer wearing anything but standard "uniform oxfords" of one form or another.  I have seen them in standard wear style and high polish dress versions.  I would think that back in 1963, as is still the norm even today, that uniformed officers would be expected to wear "uniform shoes".  I know plain clothes detectives deviate from the norm in that they wear shoes commensurate with their particular clothing of the day (at least in recent years).

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On 12/19/2018 at 8:42 AM, Lewis Reynolds said:

Just bringing this old post back to the top, having looked at the photos I believe the cops aren't different but have just swapped positions.

So for some reason COP 2 who was at the back to start with, has tidied his cap and moved to the front. I wonder if this is because hes higher ranking and saw photographers?

 

 

B.jpg

C.jpg

D.jpg

Lewis,

I think you're right. In the earlier picture (in front of the chain link fence), Bill Bass is in the rear.

The two policemen swapped positions as they were crossing the intersection, and Bass, seeing the photographers, cleaned up his act and began to look "smart".

The other policeman is Marvin Wise.

Here's a couple of pictures from Denis Morrisette:

https://jfkinvestigators.wordpress.com/2016/02/24/jfk-investigators-identification-project/

Wise is on the left next to car 59

 

Here's one with Wise pictured in the inset:

 

I think the tramps case got so muddled is because they were, in fact, arrested twice that afternoon. Once by the Sheriff's Department, and again by the City Police Department. One time they were asleep on sheets of steel on a flatbed and driven to the station by police in different colored uniforms, and the second time they were hauled out of a gondola (coal car) and walked through Dealey Plaza.

 

Steve Thomas

 

Edited by Steve Thomas
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