JFK's teen mistress addresses relationship

[David Lifton]

The problem, imho, is revealed by the very language you are using to describe the situation: "salacious gossip."

No, this is not about "salacious gossip."

That's what this is all about (as far as I'm concerned); and you cheapen the inquiry by characterizing it as "salacious gossip." It suggests to me that you really do not comprehend the importance of this data.

That's not "salacious gossip." That's understanding critical pieces of this puzzle.

If you don't understand JFK's achille's heel,you will never understand how he was knocked down.

This is precisely why I'm arguing that you should step down Mr. Lifton (from your high horse that is).

First of all, please refresh yourself with the definition of "salacious". I already know what it means and used it correctly.

Second, I explained my point of view fairly completely. You, on the other hand, continue to think that JFK's alleged

sexual activities are an important "piece of the puzzle. I'm sorry sir, but I know exactly why and how our President

was removed from office and understanding his sex life doesn't inform me one bit.

I repeat my statement for effect: by talking about JFK's sex life while ignoring his purpose, you do him

a tremendous disservice. I am not suggesting we ignore history. I am not insulting any witnesses or victims. I am

merely saying that the people who had him killed are using sensational headlines to diminish the man, his memory,

and his mission. Willing or not, you are helping this by focusing on salacious details at the expense of the broader story.

Regarding those who murdered JFK: in 2012, its quite unlikely that "the people who had him killed" are around anymore.

Yet you write that "I am merely saying that the people who had him killed are using sensational headlines to diminish the man, his memory, and his mission."

You're writing in the present tense, am I not correct?

Well, please do note: Ms. Alford was interviewed by Meredith Viera. The show was hosted by Brian Williams.

Are they among "the people who had him killed"?

I would think not. . . so just what are you talking about?

As my old high school English teacher used to repeatedly say: "Be specific."

I think if you would do that, you would realize that these are rather empty statements.

I could speculate about what I think you mean, but as actually expressed, it would appear that you have a conspiracy theory about the media outlets whose message or programming you disagree with, and even with individuals with whom you disagree.

The media persons (e.g. Viera and/or Williams) are now grouped with "the people who had him killed" and individuals whose posts you don't like are labeled as "plants."

I don't like to use the term paranoia, so let's use more tame language: what you're saying is not well thought out, and really does not make much sense. Alford got a book contract because she was judged credible, had an important experience to relate--not because the publisher was controlled by the CIA.

The same is true of the NBC executives who made the decision to interview her, and did --imho--a very good job.

I don't care for Chris Mathews views on this case, at all; and I think its ridiculous that Sy Hersh said that the two things he would never write about were UFO's and the Kennedy assassination. But these views do not justify grouping either of them among "the people who had him killed", and the same goes for those on this forum with whom you may disagree, or the people who interviewed Mimmi Alford.

DSL

2/12/12; 11:30 PM PST

Los Angeles, California

Edited February 13, 2012 by David Lifton

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Greg Parker hits another double:

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t186-fiddle-faddle

Greg Parker did a fine job of digging up those 1965 interviews of Priscilla and Jill. Like I often say you can usually learn a lot about a man from his mistreses. I can see Fiddle and Faddle now: floating around JFK in one of his naked swim parties in the White House. There is no doubt that Fiddle and Faddle, who knew JFK both professionally and socially can offer good or great insights into the man and the issues he was grappling with. I suggest reading their interviews closely and "in between the lines." They confirm yet again, in a diplomatic fashion, the tremendous friction between John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson.

Greg Parker: "Jill and Priscilla were obviously very bright girls and not the bimbos they have been made out to be. If either was having an affair with Kennedy, this interview shows them to be cold, calculating sociopaths. I do not believe for a millisecond, that they were."

Nobody is calling them "bimbos" or "sociopaths" ... they were bright young girls, probably very attractive and "well endowed" from what I have heard (I have not googled their pictures yet) and no doubt they were juicy plums ripe for the picking for a horny, middle-aged and uber-charming lothario, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. If they are still around, I wish someone would interview them again and see what else they have to say.

For Jim DiEugenio: regarding JFK's great friend George Smathers. They were infamous running buddies and great friends. And they used to check out of the Senate early and go chase the girls. JFK, LBJ and Smathers were all having sex with very young women ... teenaged girls in fact. One of George Smathers' out of wedlock daughters has contacted me. I think her mother was age 17 or 18 when Smather's impregnated her; the daughter was raised by a lady active in politics in Florida; and apparently she had a whole house filled with similar love children.

These men left a tremendous amount of wreckage behind them. And a lot kids who they never acknowledged as a dad (JFK, Smathers, LBJ all had illegitimate kids they emotionally discarded even if Smathers and LBJ spent some money on them).

The fact that Smathers was much more of a hawk than JFK and a backer of Eladio Del Valle is quite irrelevant as to whether Smathers can accurately describe JFK's promiscuous behavior. Smathers should know - he and JFK were in it together! John Kennedy was seriously considering making Smathers his vice presidential candidate in 1964 - either him or Terry Sanford of North Carolina. JFK & Smathers may have had some minor political differences but they were busom buddies. Certainly not like JFK and LBJ- where a fullscale sub rosa war was going on for years. In fact, JFK told Smathers a few days before heading to Dallas that he really did not want to go, LBJ was being so argumentative and difficult as usual and that LBJ even wanted to have Jackie ride in the limo with him in Dallas!! Did you catch the last part? Smathers is telling us Lyndon Johnson was making the absurd request that Jackie ride with HIM in the motorcades in Texas.

My interpretation: Lyndon Johnson was fully in on the plot to assassinate John Kennedy and he was trying to pull Jackie out of the kill zone. Later LBJ unsuccessfully tried the same limo switcheroo with his enemy Sen. Ralph Yarborough and his longtime political friend John Connally on the morning of 11/22/63.

Also, you seem to think that if someone is a "conservative" or a "Republican" or a "hawk" that they are somehow unreliable on everything they say. That is just not a good way to approach things because truth and falsehoods can be found across the political spectrum.

Smathers says JFK would have sex with anyone who had a pulse - your wife, your sister, your mother, whatever. Smathers probably was not far behind in that respect.

UPDATE: Jill (Faddle) died in 2003 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/classified/paid-notice-deaths-cowen-halle-jill-sanchia.html

Picture of Jill Cowen: http://www.whosdatedwho.com/tpx_43697/jill-cowan/photo

UPDATE #2 - Ronald Kessler's Chapter 2 - "Lancer" on JFK "In The President's Service"

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/080409_secret_service.pdf Yes, Ronald Kessler is a partisan Republican and "conservative" but he also has great Secret Service contacts going back decades. Dismiss Kessler at your peril. There are truth and lies all over the political spectrum.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Dawn Meredith]

Mr. Lifton,

This time, at least, your post was much more thought out and I appreciate that.

In addition, I respect your opinion insomuch as I would appear, to the naive, as

a conspiracy monger by making such sweeping statements.

However, please reread my original post and you'll see what I'm getting at. JFK

was much, much closer to tackling corrupt capitalism than any other president,

and for that, he was killed. Now, almost 50 years later, we are still being treated to

countless tales about his sordid past (e.g., sexual affairs, being a secret communist

while simultaneously a cold warrior). Why do you think it is that JFK gets far more

attention than all of the other presidents? Seriously, why?

The answer is because the people who were threatened by JFK are still in power.

This isn't some kooky conspiracy, but the truth. Spend time watching the mainstream

media and correlating it to the happenings inside the beltway, and you'll see that

Viera and Williams are only reporting what we're supposed to hear. Doubt me?

Ask any retired newspaper reporter in the country who isn't wealthy.

I appreciate your reasoned response, but I think you've been around the block too

many times to be looking at the JFK assassination with wide eyes. You can disagree or

debate with me, but please don't think that hearing about JFK's alleged mistress rates higher

than the recent book about the Hollywood ex-Marine matchmaker that just came out.

Yes: "The answer is because the people who were threatened by JFK are still in power.

This isn't some kooky conspiracy, but the truth".

I knew this was an inside job day one at 14. But people here twist your words.

I have not time for such games.

Dawn

[Dean Hagerman]

I dont care if JFK cheated on his wife. im sure that he did

That may make him a lousy husband, but he was still a great man and president

The problem I have with all this JFK was a sex addict talk is that it will never bring us closer to the truth about why and how JFK was assassinated

There is no way that JFKs affairs with other woman is what got him killed

[Don Jeffries]

David,

While the names have changed, the mindset has not. Brian Williams, Matt Lauer, John King, Shepherd Smith are all indistinguishible from Walter Cronkite, David Brinkley, Harry Reasoner and Dan Rather. Each and every one of them will chant the "no conspiracy" mantra, especially when the JFK assassination is the subject. They are paid extremely well to read their teleprompters, and often belong to the same exclusive fraternities that the most powerful political figures belong to; the Council on Foeign Relations, for example. Some of them even get invited to the yearly Bilderberg meetings, where the world's elite gather to discuss the fate of the unwashed masses. Every "journalist" that attends these soirees agrees in advance to never report anything about them. Does that sound like the kind of press that is ever going to report the truth about important political events?

JFK may have been the lothario that many think he was. In my view, if he was indeed frolicking with Fiddle and Faddle every day, carrying on affairs with the most visible celebrities of the era, like Marilyn Monroe, getting involved with the molls of dangerous gangsters, like Judith Exner, having a dalliance with Mary Pinchot Meyer, wife of CIA honcho Cord Meyer (and also doing LSD with her, courtesy of Timothy Leary), and now apparently engaging in a sexual relationship with at least one teenage intern, then his political accomplishments are all the more impressive. And remember, also, the same sources that allege JFK was having nonstop sex, also claim that there was a huge coverup about his health- usually centered around Addison's Disease. So, a sickly, middle-aged man, long before the days of Viagra, was finding time for more sexual activity than young rock stars engage in, and still managed to appear, to the public, like a robust and classy world leader.

I'm as skeptical about the allegations regarding JFK's sexual exploits as I am about the "official" story of his death. As Jim D. has consistently pointed out, look at the sources for this- almost all of them can be traced back to Exner, Hersh, Heymann, etc. I'm wondering how many here accept the notion that there was a coverup about JFK's health. This has also been used to explain away the incomplete and shoddy autopsy JFK received; according to these same sources, the Kennedy family "covered up" because they didn't want the public to know about his Addison's Disease. It doesn't matter to them that RFK signed the form authorizing the autopsy, and placed no restrictions on it. Harold Weisberg was the first critic, I believe, to address this campaign to blame the Kennedy family.

The mainstream media now exists primarily to promulgate the party line, whatever that is. The party line regarding JFK and RFK is that they were reckless, irresponsible, unprincipled, typical politicians. The party line on their deaths is, and always has been, that they were both killed by lone nuts, and neither death held any political significance. If you don't think this is true, then find me one example of a prominent "journalist," who is given lots of television time, that will publicly declare JFK was killed by a conspiracy.

[Guest Tom Scully]

................................

Regarding those who murdered JFK: in 2012, its quite unlikely that "the people who had him killed" are around anymore......

DSL

2/12/12; 11:30 PM PST

Los Angeles, California

Between the 28 years spanning January, 1981, and January, 2009, just two men, a father and his son, "served" in the office of POTUS or V-POTUS, during all of 20 of those 28 years. 12 of those years were "served" by the now elderly, but still very much alive, never officially investigated JFK assassination suspect, GHW Bush.

Lucy, you've got some 'splainin to do!:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13941&view=findpost&p=245785

[Guest Robert Morrow]

................................

Regarding those who murdered JFK: in 2012, its quite unlikely that "the people who had him killed" are around anymore......

DSL

2/12/12; 11:30 PM PST

Los Angeles, California

Between the 28 years spanning January, 1981, and January, 2009, just two men, a father and his son, "served" in the office of POTUS or V-POTUS, during all of 20 of those 28 years. 12 of those years were "served" by the now elderly, but still very much alive, never officially investigated JFK assassination suspect, GHW Bush.

Lucy, you've got some 'splainin to do!:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13941&view=findpost&p=245785

Yes, I believe that there are people alive TODAY who have liability in the JFK assassination. It is one big reason that the media cover up of the JFK assassination is so hard core even today, 48 years later.

George Herbert Walker Bush is at the top of my list of people alive today who have liability in the JFK assassination. Another one, possible, is David Rockefeller. And perhaps Henry Kissinger because he was so close to the Rockefellers and the Bushes.

My opinion is that GHW Bush was one of the CIA murderers of John Kennedy. At the very least, he knows who did it.

From Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition 1998 p. 638-639]:

“The Role of deep-cover CIA officer, Trenton Parker, has been described in earlier pages, and his function in the CIA's counter-intelligence unit, Pegasus. Parker had stated to me earlier that a CIA faction was responsible for the murder of JFK … During an August 21, 1993, conversation, in response to my questions, Parker said that his Pegasus group had tape recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy. I asked him, "What group were these tapes identifying?" Parker replied: "Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, Johnson of Texas, George Bush, and J. Edgar Hoover." I asked, "What was the nature of the conversation on these tapes?"

I don't have the tapes now, because all the tape recordings were turned over to [Congressman] Larry McDonald. But I listened to the tape recordings and there were conversations between Rockefeller, [J. Edgar] Hoover, where [Nelson] Rockefeller asks, "Are we going to have any problems?" And he said, "No, we aren't going to have any problems. I checked with Dulles. If they do their job we'll do our job." There are a whole bunch of tapes, because Hoover didn't realize that his phone has been tapped. Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition p. 638-639]

Also, read Family of Secrets by Russ Baker.

1) http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/02/19/unanswered-questions-as-obama-anoints-hw-bush/

2) http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm

Bush is one of the few ex-presidents who insists on continuing to have intelligence updates. One big reason is that he has to keep a thumb pressed down on the *permanent liability* that he has left with his decades of crime. And I mean that literally - decades of crime. #1 would be the JFK assassination.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Pamela Brown]

Vince P. has done some interesting research on Mimi Alford:

http://vincepalamara.com/2012/02/14/fact-checking-mimi-alford/

[Rodney Rivers]

My gut feeling tells me this woman is not lying. Considering we know JFK was a womanizer, I don't find this shocking at all.

I believe most of you have good intentions, but let's not forget that we need to analyze JFK the Man, not the Myth or Martyr status he's achieved almost 50 years later. This man, just like other great accomplished men throughout history, had his deep flaws. As someone else mentioned in this thread, running for POTUS tells us that someone isn't really like the rest of us when it comes to living/pursuing a normal life. Recall the reporter Helen Thomas stating that every President she's had the privileged to cover had something 'off' about them. Well other than Jerry Ford who she claimed was the closest thing to 'normal'.

The Kennedy's were just sexual deviants and that's a sad fact. I hate even typing this but it's the hard truth. I like probably most of you idolize JFK, but also can see from afar the man had serious sexual issues. In today's world, he would be diagnosed a sex addict. Although I know of these flaws, I judge the man as a whole. But I must honestly admit, when I read this account in detail,it slapped me in the face once again. I know the history, but I guess reading yet another account, and this one more graphic and disturbing, just takes some of the shine off the man and his legacy.

[Douglas Caddy]

My gut feeling tells me this woman is not lying. Considering we know JFK was a womanizer, I don't find this shocking at all.

I believe most of you have good intentions, but let's not forget that we need to analyze JFK the Man, not the Myth or Martyr status he's achieved almost 50 years later. This man, just like other great accomplished men throughout history, had his deep flaws. As someone else mentioned in this thread, running for POTUS tells us that someone isn't really like the rest of us when it comes to living/pursuing a normal life. Recall the reporter Helen Thomas stating that every President she's had the privileged to cover had something 'off' about them. Well other than Jerry Ford who she claimed was the closest thing to 'normal'.

The Kennedy's were just sexual deviants and that's a sad fact. I hate even typing this but it's the hard truth. I like probably most of you idolize JFK, but also can see from afar the man had serious sexual issues. In today's world, he would be diagnosed a sex addict. Although I know of these flaws, I judge the man as a whole. But I must honestly admit, when I read this account in detail,it slapped me in the face once again. I know the history, but I guess reading yet another account, and this one more graphic and disturbing, just takes some of the shine off the man and his legacy.

I agree with your comment, Rodney, which puts the controversy in proper perspective.

[Kathleen Collins]

I am at the point where I believe almost ALL of the sex stories about Kennedy - Inga Avard, Judith Exner, Ellen Rometsch, MiMi Beardsley, Mary Meyer, the case of his son Jack e liked that development; I could see them using that to justify further actions against JFK.

Lisa Howard & Castro: http://28.media.tumb...bpo86o1_500.jpg

There is a whole gynasium full of mistresses, stories, documentation, re-confirmation about the rampant sexual promiscuity of John Kennedy (and Bill Clinton), yet some folks just don't want to *believe.* Well, it's a free country and you don't have to believe.

That's the youngest picture I've seen of Castro. But notice the limp wrist...

Kathy C

[Douglas Caddy]

RM: Doug Caddy has also hooked me up with Houston gay activist Ray Hill who has given me invaluable information about both George Herbert Walker Bush and Lyndon Johnson. And it is not favorable about either of those 2 fellows. Ray Hill has given me good information about both GWH Bush's pedophilia and LBJ's homosexuality (bisexuality). Invaluable stuff that is not in biographies or even on the internet.

That will solve the case.

Nuff said.

I cannot let Jim’s apparent homophobic slur against Ray Hill go unchallenged.

I have known Ray as a close friend for the last decade. He is a skilled political activist in the mode of Saul Alinsky.

He was arrested almost 30 years ago as a burglar specializing in fine antiques and sentenced to 160 years in prison. Before he starting his sentence, he and his father, both active Democrats, visited John Connally at the latter’s ranch in South Texas where they purchased from Connally a calf for $150. When Ray reported to prison, he was greeted personally by the warden and ultimately served only 4 ½ years, most of the time as a prison trustee.

When he was released from prison he returned to Houston and was a founder of the Pacifica Radio Station, KPFT. For the next 27 years (until two years ago) he was the weekly host of The Prison Show on the station, for which both he and the program received numerous national and local civic awards.

Although not a lawyer, he is well known for his legal acumen. The Houston Police Department has made the mistake of arresting him on several occasions. His most famous case, City of Houston V. Hill, went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, which decided in Ray's favor by a vote of 8 to 1. His lawyers were awarded $500,000.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=482&invol=451

Ray has been credited for guiding the famous case of Lawrence v. Texas from its inception a few year ago when two gay men were arrested in the residence of one of them for engaging in gay sex all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, whose decision overturned the Texas anti-sodomy statute, resulting in overturning the anti-sodomy statutes in all other states.

About four months ago the Houston Police Department again made the mistake of arresting Ray. Ray,a diabetic man age 65 with a prosthetic leg, was brutally manhandled by the police officers who subsequently wrote up a police report that misstated what had actually occurred. Fortunately, Ray’s arrest was recorded by a video camera at the business establishment and directly contradicts the police report filed under oath by the police officers. Trial on this case is set for May and the Houston legal community and local media expect Hill once again to triumph against the police for their brutal actions, with the City of Houston again having to pay an award to Ray for wrongful arrest.

[Stephen Roy]

Jim DiEugenio wrote:

"Which is one of the goofiest things I have heard on this thread. Which considering what some people have written here e.g...Roy...is really saying something."

Go back and read my post, Jim. I was uncomfortable expressing it; I pointed out that it was a different time, that it is difficult to judge such behavior by standards that emerged later; I noted that JFK might have had an early version of an open marriage; I mentioned that I admire JFK and would have excused an incident or two, but that I, personally, was disappointed at how frequently it seems to have happened.

What I wrote was personal, understated, polite and respectful. It wasn't goofy.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Stephen Roy

[Guest Robert Morrow]

DC: I cannot let Jim’s apparent homophobic slur against Ray Hill go unchallenged.

Uh Doug, what homophobic slur?

I don't even know who Ray Hill is or was. And I could care less.

But I do know this, the JFK case will never be solved using Bush and (uh) pedophilia or LBJ and (uh) bisexuality.

The fact you are selling Morrow on these things as useful leads tells us all we need to know about you and your interest in the JFK assassination. To you its a three ring circus.

When will you announce your press conference using these two sexual spins to solve the JFK case?

Maybe Lifton should be there to tell us how the SS sacked JFK because of his philandering.

Invite, Hersh, he will show for sure. It will be his triumphal moment. He will have reduced us all to Rupert Murdoch tabloidism.

I do not think Jim was slurring Ray Hill. Here is an article on Ray Hill: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Ray-Hill-celebrates-30-years-of-building-hope-on-1700942.php

Ray Hill is a longtime and well known Houston gay rights activist. He is also a damn good source on the sex habits of many hypocritical politicians. Ray Hill was also a longtime lobbyist for the Adult Entertainment Industry in Texas. Ray Hill is probably about age 71 now. Ray Hill has long time and close ties to the strip club community as well as the gay community.

Ray Hill is a controversial and much loved figure in Houston. He knows a lot of deep politics. Ray Hill used to work at the Kinsey Institute in the mid 1960's and he had access to the sexual interviews that Kinsey conducted with high profile figures including LYNDON JOHNSON. These interviews were "coded" as for who they were and Ray was able to easily "break the code." The sexual history interview of Lyndon Johnson included rampant bisexuality as well as the fact that Lyndon Johnson had sex with his grandmother (!!) I estimate LBJ was probably age 16 at the time (pure guess) and grandma Ruth Huffman would have been age 68. The other grandmother died before LBJ reached age 10.

I have heard from other sources that Lyndon Johnson was bisexual. This is not in the history books or even on the internet, but I have heard it from reliable sources.

Ray Hill was also friends with John Coil, the owner of the Carousel Motel in Houston, which was located across from the Gulfgate Mall, one of the first modern malls in America. John Coil and his business partner used to tell Ray Hill and others that Congressman George Herbert Walker Bush used to take a "Hispanic kid" there to that motel. I ask Ray how old was this kid? Age 17-18? or age 15-16? or less? Ray's response was this Hispanic boy was young enough to be called a kid! That kind of homosexual pedophilic behavior by GHW Bush was confirmed in the Franklin pedophile ring of the 1980's which was providing GHW Bush with young boys to have sex with. One example was the case of Brandt Thomas (age 18, not underage), a gay prostitute who Lawrence E. King pandered to GHW Bush at a party in Chicago in fall 1984 according to a witness Eulice Washington, who is alive today and sticking by her story.

Ray Hill was ALSO the gay activist who played a big role in "outing" the hypocritical anti-gay preacher Ted Haggard of Colorado (Haggard had a whole string of gay boyfriends).

Another key point, Ray Hill was also the gay activist who shepherded Lawrence v. Texas through the court system, ultimately to the Supreme Court, which ruled that the states' anti-sodomy laws were illegal, null and void. However you feel about that, it was a gargantuan ruling.

Ray Hill is an endless repository of interesting political and sexual stories that go back 5 decades.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I had a friend named Cecil Rigsby from the gym here in Austin, TX. When he was age 87-88 years old he used to come in EVERY weekday to the gym and start his workouts at 3AM. I am not kidding about; like clockwork 3AM meant Cecil was walking in the gym.

I really did not know much about him for several years except that he was a Republican, a pretty conservative guy and a very nice man.

It turns out he was a long time Air Force guy. I had no idea how prominent he was. One night in the gym, probably at 4AM in the morning (when the early birds intersect with the late birds at the gym) he told me that during the Cuban Missile Crisis he went down to Florida and those American bomber planes came DAMN CLOSE to taking off for Cuba. How close I don't know - within 24 hours close for sure.

Here is Cecil Rigsby recent obituary from last year (he died 11/7/11): http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/statesman/obituary.aspx?n=cecil-h-rigsby&pid=154631697

I wish I would have picked his brains on everything else he knew.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Robert Morrow