JFK's teen mistress addresses relationship

[Guest Robert Morrow]

All you have to do is look at Jack Worthington, meet him in person, to know that Lyndon Johnson was providing women to John Kennedy (Worthington's mother was a local and young Texas beauty). And I bet Bobby Baker was providing a truckload more of women to JFK (and Smathers and whoever else wanted them).

JFK was reckless and he vastly under-estimated the ruthlessness of the folks he was dealing with - LBJ being a prime example. As many folks know, Bobby Baker was a virtual son (or younger brother) to LBJ like LBJ had been a virtual son to Sam Rayburn.

And regarding Angie Dickinson:

"Steve Weisman, of the New York Times, grew up in Beverly Hills, where most of his junior high school class had heard that President Kennedy was having an affair with actress Angie Dickinson: "The hotel was right across from my old grade school."

[Gail Collins, Scorpion Tongues, p.4]

Edited February 8, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Kathleen Collins]

He might have been an above average president but he was a lousy human being.

John Simkin. The biggest Forum on your education site is the JFK Debate. Why do you spend so much time working on this Forum when you hate Kennedy? You should be hunting down Nazis or something.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

I think he was a normal human male of the time that simply had more opportunities and a more liberal attitude which is typical of the left (rather red than dead is probably one of the more interesting statements). His 'flirting' with the immoral which he justified to himself and through his apologies indicate a sense of correct morals simply, imo, makes him normal.

He said there's one thing he hated about this job -- having to get up on Sunday morning and go to church.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

"Steve Weisman, of the New York Times, grew up in Beverly Hills, where most of his junior high school class had heard that President Kennedy was having an affair with actress Angie Dickinson: "The hotel was right across from my old grade school."

You cannot be serious Bob. This guy worked for the NY TImes and now works for Pete Peterson.

But I think you are.

What was common knowledge in a junior high school in Hollywood in the early 1960's, you have not figured out today. But that is okay.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

We have strayed a good bit from the MiMi Beardsley (Alford) story. But here is another one. Note the *blackmail and control* aspects of what Lyndon Johnson and his team were trying to do to John Kennedy. Keep that in mind when you remember what JFK told MiMi about Lyndon Johnson - keep away from him! Johnson, like his good buddy J. Edgar Hoover, was notorious for building "files" on people.

Author Gail Collins quoting gossip columnist Liz Smith:

One of Johnson's assistants and I went all through high school and college together, " Smith says. "He told me the most incredible stories. Johnson's people kept dossiers on Kennedy. They'd interview the hotel maids. The maid would be there making a bed, and Kennedy would come in and give her a boff." One of Smith's friends told her that the president had taken her up to his office while she was still wearing her elaborate ball gown. "She was lying there with her dress over her head," Smith recounted. "She looked up and he was standing there at his desk, reading some papers and zipping his fly. He just left her lying there."

[Gail Collins, Scorpion Tongues: Gossip, Celebrity, and American Politics, p. 176]

[Kathleen Collins]

He probably told himself that he was not being unfaithful as long as he did not kiss the women. He might have been an above average president but he was a lousy human being.

I'm glad you articulated what I, with some discomfort, felt. It was a different time back then, with a different moral compass. I suspect that his friends and family probably felt somewhat proud and even envious of his ability to seduce women, and to get away with it. It would be later, toward the end of the 60s, that American men first started to catch on to the concept that promiscuity and cheating were immoral and demeaning. One could argue that his marriage may not have been mutually satisfactory, that it was maintained only for "show," but it appears that he was still having some marital relations and children even while cheating. It almost seems to have been something of a game.

As I admire President Kennedy, I was willing to overlook an incident or two of infidelity, but the the slow trickle of names and stories, some of which are probably true, makes it a lot harder to excuse or ignore. What was he thinking?

I don't know about England, but in the US in the late '60's it was free love, the summer of love. People were more promiscuous. Women were allowed to enjoy themselves.

And we have to remember that JFK was on daily cortisone shots and amphetamine shots, had to wear a girdle. If you can believe the Autopsy, his adrenal glands were completely atrophied. But his sister Eunice had the same Addisons disease and lived to a ripe old age. 

Take a look at Maria Shriver.<br><br>Kathy C

Edited February 10, 2012 by Kathleen Collins

[Guest Robert Morrow]

You mean everyone in the school knew?

Did they announce it over the loudspeaker?

It is obvious the kids got it from their parents who were in the entertainment industry or the affilated professions (lawyers, agents, etc.)

It is like I live here in Austin and a huge chunk of people know that Rick Perry is homosexually promiscuous. The "little people" have eyes and ears: hotel managers, cabbies, club owners, people who socialize with the politicos..

Word gets around to the point you don't need to announce it on a loudspeaker. When it gets to the point even junior high classes know it, it's probably true.

[Kathleen Collins]

Uh Bob, before you quote someone like Smathers, who actually was a backer of Eladio Del Valle,you should know two things about him.

First, there is a famous story about JFK braking a plate over a dinner table when someone was pushing him to order the CIA to kill Castro. It turns out that person do ing the pushing was Smathers.

Second, for a number of years after the assassination, Smathers played the loyal pal to his deceased friend. This suddenly changed at the request of guess who? Lucianna Goldberg! She was prepping a Jackie Kennedy book for her client Kitty Kelly. Now suddenly Smathers did a pirouettee and started dishing all this dirt on his pal, which he had not done before.

Bob, what you "believe" about Kennedy and his affairs is ultimately inconsequential. Maybe he did, maybe he did not. Big deal.

I mean if we started judging each and every president and politician by his loyalty to his wife, then guys like FDR and Eisenhower would be impeached and Nixon would not have. I mean Big Deal. Alexander Hamilton had numerous affairs also. We all know that Jefferson had an affair with a black slave, and had kids by her. That screaming segregationist Strom Thurmond was a lying hypocrite. He had an affair with a black woman and covered it up for decades. George H. W. Bush very likely cheated on his wife. His son had an out of wedlock child and paid off the woman to shut her up.

Repeat: BIG DEAL! Who the hell cares? American history is strewn with this stuff.

What I object to is when it becomes an independent business. Which is what it has become in this case. Certain political enemies have used these people and completely exaggerated their stories for monetary and political gain. With Exner it was to somehow say that the Kennedys were not al that mad at the Mafia,they were actually in cahoots with them to off Castro. Which turned out to be a damned lie generated by Russo and Hersh, and BTW exposed by Exner herself on TV. Where, in an unguarded and unrehearsed moment, she admitted to having never meeting RFK.

As per Mary Meyer, again, maybe he did, maybe he did not. It doesn' t matter does it? See, but these people then make it more than it is to make it matter. The Mary Meyer story now gets blown up into doing LSD in the White House by a lying Tim Leary. It is then accepted by biographers like rightwing shills David Horowitz and Peter Collier. And put on the cover of his magazine by the likes of Martin Peretz, who drove the once proud New Republic into the ground.

And as Sullivan said about Hoover, there he was blowing all the smoke outward. Well on this site, here is Caddy doing the same with for example the Worthington hoax.

You then throw in out of the blue, Lisa Howard? My God, where did you pull that one from? Then you say Marilyn Monroe "of course"? Have you read Spoto's book? You throw in Jayne Mansfield. My God, where did you get that one? David Heymann? Because he is the only one who ever mentioned it.

But see, this is where this kind of unthinking approach leads to. Which is everywhere and nowhere. By our captain, Mr. Caddy.

Smathers was a bastard from day one.

In a Jayne Mansfield biography, she reportedly said that JFK was a big zero in bed and basically she didn't care for him. She hated Jackie. She said Jackie was using her voice. When you hear Jackie speak, as Norman Mailer said, she sounded like Marilyn Monroe playing Ophelia.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

John Edwards and his affair and child with another woman. I sometimes wonder if Edwards himself prompted that coming out in public. The greyhound, Ann Coulter, called John Edwards a "fag" on Fox's Hannity and Colmes Show. Maybe he felt he had something to prove.

Kathy C

[Frankie Vegas]

Seems to me like they got the "Better red than dead' quote into a saucy book to paint President Kennedy as a soft on commies President just in time for the up coming anniversary, and made sure it was a steamy scandalous story to reach more of the masses.

[David Lifton]

He probably told himself that he was not being unfaithful as long as he did not kiss the women. He might have been an above average president but he was a lousy human being.

I'm glad you articulated what I, with some discomfort, felt. It was a different time back then, with a different moral compass. I suspect that his friends and family probably felt somewhat proud and even envious of his ability to seduce women, and to get away with it. It would be later, toward the end of the 60s, that American men first started to catch on to the concept that promiscuity and cheating were immoral and demeaning. One could argue that his marriage may not have been mutually satisfactory, that it was maintained only for "show," but it appears that he was still having some marital relations and children even while cheating. It almost seems to have been something of a game.

As I admire President Kennedy, I was willing to overlook an incident or two of infidelity, but the the slow trickle of names and stories, some of which are probably true, makes it a lot harder to excuse or ignore. What was he thinking?

If you read David Heymann ("A Woman Named Jackie", published years ago) it becomes clear that JFK wasn't just a bit promiscuous; he was a sex-a-holic. It was one after another after another. With regard to this particular lady, I think the most difficult incident for me is the one where, while in the pool with this her (and Dave Powers), he says something to the effect that "Dave looks tense" and urges her to address that problem. Then he watches as she has oral sex with Powers--in the White House pool.

This kind of behavior probably made it easy (or at least "easier") to recruit Secret Service agents into a plot.

I do believe, along with Sorensen, that JFK prevented us from getting into nuclear war; yet the incident with Powers make them both appear pretty cheesy.

DSL

2/8/12

[John Simkin]

I have to chime in with Jim on this folks. Let's display some critical skills one this one. There are so many inconsistencies its almost laughable. I mean do we really think JFK took time off during the missile crisis to visit an intern? Is that better dead than red thing reflected anywhere else in JFK's verbiage? So much of this appears totally derivative - plus why right now?

Didn't we just get blasted with the "anonymous" book abut the college kid being recruited to kill JFK...the detailed story of a CIA plot that he won't support in public but just let his lawyer submit to the publisher and film industry for him, the fiction story that's supposed to be really true and has already been optioned for a movie. As no doubt this will be.

-- OK, I'm done.. Larry

I remember when Gunilla von Post claimed in 1997 that she had been JFK's mistress, his supporters claimed it was part of a disinformation campaign. They then ignored the case when she provided his love letters.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1251489/Secret-love-letters-written-JFK-Swedish-mistress-expected-sell-75-000-auction.html

[John Dolva]

John:

You are missing the point.

As I stated above, its not a matter of whether or not Kennedy had affairs. To me whether he did or did not is not really relevant.

It is what people who are in the "business racket" do with these things TO MAKE THEM SEEM RELEVANT that is the key.

With Exner, Time-Life went ahead and simply made up BS to make them appear to be relevant. On that one, the original writer, Kitty Kelly, did not write one word of the front page essay. THe editors at Time-Life just made up crap about the mafia and JFK to sell magazines. And then Hersh and Russo went even beyond that. Except their source, Underwood, would not show up for his ARRB interview.

With Mary Meyer, Leary lied his head off to sell his book Flashbacks. Dr. LSD, made sure he got acid in the White House. Somehow, no one noticed that in his 25 previous attempts to write about the matter, he forgot about Mary Meyer.

As per David Lifton, man where have you been?

C. David Heymann? This guy was exposed as a serial xxxx ages ago.

Frankie, you are right on.

That's it. Anyway that's what I think. That's what makes this a worthwhile topic to me. (I know its an answer to John Simkin)

I think it's interesting that some chief purveyors (and creators) of this stuff to feed a certain something are, like Edgar 'the body remover' Hoover far more sexually conflicted (Walker too) yet hide behind a certain facade. One can go far on this on a number of tangents like sociology for example. It's funny (see the whats the tsbd topic) what's often missed is right in front of one.

edit typo

Edited February 8, 2012 by John Dolva

[Douglas Caddy]

She said Jackie was using her voice. When you hear Jackie speak, as Norman Mailer said, she sounded like Marilyn Monroe playing Ophelia.

THat's a good one.

It is a good one because it is true.

http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndon-johnson-jacqueline-kennedy-lbj-and-jacqueline-kennedy

[John Dolva]

Parts of this I think are topical.

Havana. January 26, 2012

Mariela Castro: "The United States government is preoccupied with the LGBT movement in Cuba"

Aday del Sol Reyes

JANUARY 23-26, Havana’s Convention Center hosted the 6th Sexology Congress, focused on the central theme ‘Sexual education within processes of social change.’

On the occasion of this event, and given the educational work undertaken for years by the National Center for Sex Education, Mariela Castro Espín, director of the institution, agreed to an interview with CubaSí.

With a degree in Educational Psychology and a Master’s in Sexuality, Mariela Castro is internationally recognized as an active defender of the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual and intersexual people (LGBTI) in Cuba

Since last November, President Raúl Castro’s daughter has been participating in social networks, establishing a twitter account @CastroEspinM and a blog

http://elblogdemarielacastro.blogspot.com as a means to debunk long-standing prejudices and oppose homophobia.

In an encounter with U.S. university students last November, you said that the Revolution had changed not only the lives of Cubans, but their sexuality as well. How?

The Cuban Revolution meant not only the achievement of our long held desire for national sovereignty, but also the beginning of a lengthy process of creation and implementation of projects seeking to establish justice, social equity and solidarity, which has been constructed and defended over 53 years. This framework has supported debate and dialogue between generations, cultural groups, classes and social strata. Old paradigms of power based on domination and exploitation, inherited from the Spanish colonial system and U.S. neo-colonial relations, were questioned.

Undoubtedly, this process has generated profound and radical changes in our culture, in prejudices related to sexuality, in the domination asserted by men over women, the reshaping of courtship and relations between couples, in policies which privilege heterosexual relationships and exclude other ways of experiencing loving and erotic relations among human beings, denying certain rights to those who don’t fit within these parameters.

Cuban film and other forms of artistic expression have addressed, in a very creative way, the vicissitudes of men and women of different ages in the development of these changes. For example, they have transformed opinions about virginity as a precondition for marriage; the expectation that couples remain together throughout life; the exclusive responsibility of men to provide for families and function as heads of household; the rejection of interracial relationships; myths about menstruation; the discounting of single mothers and single women in general; the rights of women; disapproval of transgender, homosexual or bisexual persons and many other issues.

What progress is being made in the proposed law which would legalize homosexual unions and recognize, in the new Family Code, the personal and property rights implied, in addition to permitting transsexuals to legally change their gender identity?

At this point, the proposed bill to modify the Family Code is being analyzed by specialists in the Ministry of Justice and professionals affiliated with the Cuban National Union of Jurists. According to what the Minister of Justice has said to the national press, its discussion is included in the legislative plan for 2012. I trust that the [Communist] Party Conference will help define an explicit policy against discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity and, as well, help to dismantle prejudices which serve as obstacles to the law’s approval. The purpose of these proposals is to respond to the need to expand recognition and the protection of rights to our entire population. As for facilitating legal changes of identity for transsexuals without the requirement of surgical change (as is currently required), we have introduced through the Federation of Cuban Women a proposed Gender Identity law to the President of the People’s Power National Assembly’s Commission on Constitutional and Judicial Affairs. We do not, as yet, have information about the progress of that legislative initiative.

The proposal is inclusive in nature for all transsexual persons, identified by a specialized commission within the Ministry of Public Health, since not all can have surgery, be that for health or personal reasons.

On your trip to the Netherlands, you wrote on your twitter account @CastroEspinM, "In Cuba an explicit policy exists to address not only prostitution, but also transactional sex, which has been invisible." Could you explain?

As for the issue of prostitution, I start from the conviction that the autonomy of all persons over their own bodies must be respected as a right. Nevertheless, the sexual market has not disappeared given the predominance of social systems based on patriarchal and class exploitation among human beings.

Some of these expressions are difficult to visualize, since government efforts are focused on more traditional and explicit interpretations, such as prostitution and human trafficking. In these instances, sex is a transaction, referring to women and men who derive some benefit from the practice of sex, which is not necessarily money. This has always existed, but now we have begun to talk about the phenomenon and in Latin America it is very much related to sex tourism, which has its own logic.

In Cuba, since 1959, the Federation of Cuban Women has led efforts to address the problems generated by prostitution as a form of exploitation, principally of women, who were disadvantaged not only as a result of their gender, but also because of race or social class.

It is known that there were more than 100,000 prostitutes living in very precarious and humiliating conditions, [before 1959] who have publicly testified as to how the Revolution changed their lives, benefiting them and supporting their participation within the great liberation process which contributed to affording them a measure of dignity.

The work undertaken by the Revolution to eliminate prostitution is a matter of national pride. The crisis initiated in 1990 led to its reappearance as a social problem with new characteristics, especially linked to international tourism and the consequent presence of clients who paid for sexual services and generated the market. That is why I praise the Swedish approach of penalizing the client, which has been effective in reducing sexual exploitation.

How many gender reassignment surgeries have been performed in Cuba to date and what are the criteria used for selection?

There have been 15 surgical gender reassignment operations performed. The first was done by Cuban specialists in 1998, but it was not until 2007 that the Ministry of Public Health again offered the procedure.

A National Commission for the Comprehensive Treatment of Transsexual Persons exists, which has received 175 applications from the transsexual population since 1979. They are attended according to standard international parameters. As we disseminate information about these services through the communications media, more people experiencing this conflict and previously unaware that they could receive help, will come forward.

At this point, transsexual persons must go through a two-year period of treatment, during which they receive attention from specialists along with personalized hormonal treatment, while they make the transition to the gender with which they identify. At the end of this process, the Commission identifies individuals who are eligible, appropriate candidates for gender reassignment surgery (known popularly as a sex change operation) and a legal change of identity.

This surgery is not a capricious aesthetic whim, but rather a procedure scientifically accepted on an international level, which significantly improves the well-being of transsexual persons. The surgical procedure contributes to alleviating the anxiety these individuals have continually experienced since early childhood, as a result of prejudices which lead to a lack of understanding and discrimination.

What do you think of the Wikileaks report confirming that the United States government has designated $300,000 for subversion of Cuba’s LGBTI project?

In the first place, this explicit reaction by the United States government shows that the work being done in Cuba supporting the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual and intersex (LGBTI) persons preoccupies and occupies them, in terms of time and resources. Why? Because it shows the Cuban government’s political commitment to confronting homophobia and transphobia as discriminatory practices which are not consistent with the Cuban Revolution’s emancipation struggle.

What we are doing is refuting the same timeworn media campaigns attempting to discredit the spiritual core of our revolutionary project and exposing the resources expended by the United States to lie, defame, demonize and defeat this process of transformation and its leaders. They have devoted themselves to promoting a few commentators entirely lacking in authenticity, repeating their statements in the traditional media, on blogs and social networks, implementing a blatant disinformation campaign with a prefabricated script.

Very clear evidence has been revealed about the orders these mercenaries receive from the United States Interests Section in Havana. Some of this evidence was published by Wikileaks. Many people who have witnessed concrete events, and later read the widely distributed news reports, can testify as to the way in which world opinion is crudely manipulated in the most influential media, such as CNN in Spanish, El País, Der Spiegel, Radio Nederland, among others

Steps have been taken in Cuba to promote respect for the right to free and responsible sexual orientation and gender identity; nevertheless, this has not been sufficient. In your opinion, what is the way forward to reaching the hearts of all Cubans and eradicating homophobia, once and for all, in our country?

The first steps were taken by the Federation of Cuban Women with the creation of the National Sexual Education Work Group in 1972, a precursor to CENESEX. The FMC also took responsibility for promoting public debate about these issues. One event which had an impact was the publication of the book El hombre y la mujer en la intimidad (Men and Women in Intimacy) by Sigfred Schnabel in 1979, in which a scientific argument was presented, for the first time in Cuba, as to why homosexuality is not considered an illness.

Many homosexual individuals have told me how welcome this message is, given the burdensome stigma society has imposed on them.

Shortly after evaluating our efforts as insufficient, in 2007, we took up the initiative of French activist Georges Tin to celebrate International Day against Homophobia on May 17, since this is the date the World Health Organization decided to eliminate homosexuality from its manual classifying mental illnesses.

After this experience, in 2008 we began to work on an educational strategy, with the support of the communications media, promoting respect for free and responsible sexual orientation and gender identity. These activities have been supported by numerous state institutions and civic organizations, with the backing of the Communist Party of Cuba Central Committee’s Ideological Department and have contributed to the development of a LGBTIH movement, with the particular characteristic of including heterosexuals who participate actively in the cause.

Why are we choosing an educational communicative strategy? Because we’re talking about a process of profound cultural transformation, of offering analyses to refute prejudices established historically to dominate people, their sexuality and their bodies. Changing social consciousness is very complex and takes time, but the political will to facilitate such change must be present, if not we would be reproducing ways of thinking developed in the exploitive societies which preceded us.

How much of Vilma is in Mariela?

Her consistent opposition to all expressions of social injustice. Her commitment to the revolutionary process which emerged from our first responses in search of emancipation and crystallized into the Cuban nation’s struggle for definitive independence. Her sincerity, nonconformity, humility and perseverance.

(Taken from CubaSí)