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Son of Gen. Curtis E. Lemay's Aide, Colonel G.S. Dorman, Commented on CNN site.


Guest Tom Scully
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Guest Tom Scully

Bill, gimme a mention when you blog this info....

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/31/clips-from-last-night-douglas-brinkley-and-nathan-raab-discuss-the-revealing-new-jfk-tape/

January 31st, 2012

Clips From Last Night: Douglas Brinkley and Nathan Raab discuss the revealing new JFK tape

Last night Piers Morgan sat down with Nathan Raab, Vice-President of the Raab Collection and acclaimed author and professor Douglas Brinkley to talk about the newly revealed original and unedited white house version of the Kennedy Assassination Air Force One tape. Raab told Piers that the tape is historically significant because "this is how we know what the Federal government did immediately after the assassination."

Douglas Brinkley remarked that one of the most fascinating aspects of the tape relates to General Curtis LeMay, one of Kennedy's major adversaries. All references to LeMay were removed in the Johnson Library version, an edited version of the original tape.

Brinkley on the omitted references to General LeMay: ......................

soundoff ......

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/31/clips-from-last-night-douglas-brinkley-and-nathan-raab-discuss-the-revealing-new-jfk-tape/?replytocom=43965#respond

G.S. Dorman, Jr.

Col Dorman was the aide -de-camp to General LeMay, and my father. Your boy Brinkley totally misinterpreted the message that was sent to AF 1 - and you obviously misinterpreted it also and fed his ignorance. I would like to know how I can obtain a copy of that portion of the tape, By the way, my mother was working at the White House at that time also - and Col Dorman was KIA in Vietnam 6 years later.

February 1, 2012 at 6:39 am

http://airforce.togetherweserved.com/usaf/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=80059

Last Known Activity

"Shot down at Ba Gia," (F-4E 67-0325) Source: Hopka, Rich (TWS Historian)

"General John Roberts recalls that on 4 August George was flying a low altitude mission near Chu Lai. Upon return to Da Nang George's wingman reported that when George came off the target, there was an explosion and fire in his F4. This had been an early morning mission; and about 1300 hours General Robert's exec, Bob Kellly (retired as lieutenant general), told him that there was a CIA agent to see him. It seems the CIA man had been in a helicopter near Chu Lai and had witnessed the action in which George had been shot down. He had seen the plane pull off the target, level off for about a mile - one chute out then the plane crashed. He gave General Roberts the coordinates of the crash....A call was put out for volunteers from the 366th and six were selected, from the many who volunteered to investigate the crash. The team located the aircraft and was able to recover George's body. They discovered that George had been killed in the plane and that one engine had been knocked out. The man in the back seat had tried to get the plane under control but waited too long to eject."

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=dorman&GSfn=george&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=36&GScnty=2013&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=16424388&df=all&

Burial:

United States Military Academy Post Cemetery

West Point

Orange County

New York, USA

Plot: Section FII Site 396

http://defender.west-point.org/service/eulogies.mhtml?&u=15725

http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1946/15725/

15725 Dorman, George Stanton

May 23, 1924 - August 04, 1969

MEMORIAL ARTICLE

Published Assembly Jul '91

George Stanton Dorman NO. 15725 CLASS OF 1946 Died 4 August 1969 near Chu Lai, South Vietnam, aged 45 years. Interment: West Point Cemetery, West Point, New York.

GEORGE STANTON DORMAN was born 23 May 1924 in Portland, Oregon. The youngest of three boys, George was always competing, usually unsuccessfully, with his two older brothers. George enjoyed being a Boy Scout and attained the rank of Life Scout. In high school, he played baseball. His brother Bob remembers the young George as energetic with an excellent sense of humor, having a love of animals, a quick wit and being very loyal to his family. He graduated from Ulysses S. Grant High School in Portland.

George's father was a Reserve officer who served in both World Wars. His counsel, together with his oldest brothers joining the Army Air Corps, shaped George's decision to enter West Point He spent a year at Oregon State College, Corvallis, Oregon, before he received an appointment to enter West Point on I July 1943.

George's cadet life almost ended right after it started. In August 1943, his brother Ted's plane disappeared. This tragic event almost precipitated George's leaving the Corps. However, he was prevailed upon to continue and had a relatively uneventful cadet life. Save for a brush with chemistry, he had no great problems with academics. However, his tremendous leadership potential was sublimated until he entered active duty. When the Air Cadet option was presented to the class, George took it and received his wings together with his second lieutenant's bars at graduation.

George took multi engine transition training at Enid, Oklahoma. Upon completion of his training at Enid, George was married to Mary B. (Petie) Procurat in Orange, New Jersey on 2 November 1946.

His first operational assignment was to the 63rd Bombardment Squadron, 43rd Bombardment Wing at Davis Monthan AFB, Tucson, Arizona where he flew B29's. George's superb flying skills and leadership qualities were soon recognized, and in 1948 he was selected to be the aircraft commander of the KB29 tanker flying out of the Azores that refueled the B50 Lucky Lady in her historic nonstop flight around the world. In February 1955 George was assigned to Goose Bay, Labrador. In August of that year, he moved to the RCAF Station, Frobisher Bay, Canada, where he remained until April 1956. His next assignment was to Eighth Air Force Headquarters at Westover Field, Massachusetts where he served as executive officer to the chief of staff. July 1959 saw George and Petie move to Pease AFB, New Hampshire as a B47 squadron commander with the 100th Bombardment Wing. Later he became organizational maintenance squadron commander with the wing.

In August 1961, he was transferred to Headquarters USAF with duty in the Strategic Division of Operations. George had received "below the zone" promotions ever since his duty in Arizona, and the evidence of his growing reputation in the Air Force was very clear when he was made aide de camp to the Air Force Chief of Staff General Curtis E. LeMay in 1962. He served in this position until 1965 when he was selected to attend the National War College. From there he assumed command of the 7272and Support Group at Wheelus Air Base, Tripoli, Libya. Prior to leaving for Tripoli, George and a classmate attended an annual instrument school refresher course. The classmate recalls that George told him then that he was looking for the toughest jobs he could find.

That George was marked for bigger and better things became more evident in July 1967, when he assumed duties as vice wing commander, 81st Tactical Fighter Wing, RAF Bentwaters, Woolridge, England. This, after nothing but bomber experience! Shortly after George joined the 81st, a classmate, Phil Safford, joined as Assistant Deputy Chief of Operations. Phil recalls that George had an exceptionally keen mind and could get to the heart of a problem before anyone else. His communication skills were superb and he never lost his poise or objectivity, despite many opportunities to do so. George's goal was to command a wing in combat. To that end, he volunteered for an assignment in Seventh Air Force in Vietnam, not so much for a staff job, but as he told Phil, "I am going to be in line on the spot when the next wing commander job is available."

George received his assignment to the Seventh AF Headquarters in Vietnam. His immediate superior was then Major General David C. Jones. George's orders from England to Vietnam were to report immediately, so Petie and their three boys were left to return to the States alone. In a tape to his mother on 8 June, 1969, George told her how worried he was about Petie and the boys having to make the move back from England on their own. He mentioned that in his latest communication from Petie, she had told him of a visit she had from the mayor of Ipswich, England and his wife. He told his mother that this man had been anti US, but thanks to George and Petie he had become a great admirer and friend of Americans. George was very articulate and in that tape expounded on his concern with the media comments on the conduct of war. He mentioned that he was happy in his job and how proud he was to be serving his country.

On another tape (30 June), George told his mother how pleased he was to have heard from Petie that made the move successfully and was safely ensconced in a house in Charleston, South Carolina. His big news, in this tape was that General George Brown, commanding general of the Seventh Air Force, had selected George to be the next commander of the 366th Tac Fighter Wing in Da Nang. Colonel John Roberts (now a retired general) was the commander and had been selected to be promoted to brigadier general. George was slated to go to Da Nang by 10 July 1969 to be vice to Colonel Roberts for about 30 days before he departed. George felt that he had reached the culmination of his career-- a fighter wing command in combat and was extremely happy with this opportunity.

George became vice of the 366th in July 1969. General John Roberts recalls that on 4 August George was flying a low altitude mission near Chu Lai. Upon return to Da Nang, George's wingman reported that when George came off the target, there was an explosion and fire in his F4. This had been an early morning mission; and about 1300 hours General Robert's exec, Bob Kelly (retired as lieutenant general), told him that there was a CIA agent to see him. It seems the CIA man had been in a helicopter near Chu Lai and had witnessed the action in which George had been shot down. He had seen the plane pull off the target, level off for about a mile --one chute out then the plane crashed. He gave General Roberts the coordinates of the crash. General Roberts called the Army for site security and was told he could have it for only one hour. A call was put out for volunteers from the 366th and six were selected, from the many who volunteered, to investigate the crash. This team located the aircraft and was able to recover George's body. They discovered that George had been killed in the plane and that one engine had been knocked out. The man in the back seat had tried to get the plane under control but waited too long to eject. George was survived by his wife Petie, three sons, George, Jr., Robert and William, his mother and brother.

There is no doubt that George Dorman was destined to rise to the highest levels in the Air Force. One of the brightest stars in the Air Force firmament was dimmed on that fateful day in August 1969 near Chu Lai, South Vietnam. General Roberts said, "George was very sharp-- he would have been a hell of a wing commander." His Air Force classmates appreciated his outstanding qualities as an officer and valued him as a friend. He was a professional to the nth degree.

George, in addition to being an outstanding professional airman, was a loving and caring husband and father. All three of his sons are serving their country in one of the Armed Forces. Petie recalls that after 20 years George is still a viable presence in their sons' lives.

George Stanton Dorman always lived by "Duty, Honor, Country." He believed that a man's word was his bond. He was dedicated to the service of his country. At George's funeral at West Point, one of the pallbearers was then Lieutenant General David C. Jones, later to become chief of staff of the Air Force and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In recognition of George's service with the 81st TFW, Phil Safford was asked to represent the wing at George's funeral. Phil recalls that he was honored to serve as a pallbearer at Petie's request. Phil's words, recalling that time, echo the feelings of all George's classmates and are a fitting tribute to one of West Point's own:

"As I stood in the bright sunshine in that beautiful setting, I thought of how well George Dorman exemplified the kind of leader West Point produces for the service of our country; and for the first time, I truly understood the meaning of [Well Done!]."

'46 Memorial Article Project and his wife Petie

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That's terrific Tom,

Now can we get a contact email or phone number for George S. Dorman, Jr. and find out what the message was?

BK

JFKcountercoup

Also get a make on some of the others mentioned on the tape:

I think most of these people are dead, but I don't know for sure.

If anybody has any spare time on their hands and is itching to do some research here's something you can do.

Are any of these people still alive?

And if dead, an obit is needed.

Stranger – Major H. R. Patterson (White House CommunicationsAgency WHCA)

Tanker - Major Michael Cook - Andrews AFB.

Winner – Andrew Hatcher. Aka Andy. At Crown.

Duplex – Jerry Behn USSS

Bromley Smith – Executive Secretary, National SecurityCouncil (State Dept.)

General Leonard Dudley Heaton – Surgeon General of the Army(in DC)

Murray Jackson– State Dept.

Capt. Cecil Stoughton – photo – Clifton's co-author

Cliff Carter

George Thomas Colonel Toomey

Col. Holland

FLIGHT CREW

Tiger: Colonel James B. Swindel

Lt. Col. Lewis G. Hanson

Major David D. Oder

CWO John R. McLane SMSget. William J. Chappell

MSgt. Vernon J. Shell

TSgt. R. M. McMillan

SSgt. John T. Hames

MSgt. Wyatt A. Broom

SSgt. Eulogio Gomez

TSgt. Charles R. Ruberg

RADIO OPERATORS

MSgt. J.C. Trimble (radioman) A1

SMSgt. Joseph C. Ayres (radioman?) AF1

Airman Stanz - Radio Operator

Scott - Radio Operator

Airman Gilmore - Andrews

Newport Jerry – RadioOperator

Roy - Radio Operator

Weather Officer (at AF Command Post)

Newport Jerry – Unidentified

Race - Unidentified

Tillerman - Unidentified

Sing Sing – Unidentified

PLANE PASSENGERS:

Sgt. J. Giordano

SSget. P.J. Glynn

CWO I. Gearhart -(held black box)

SECRTARIES

Mrs. M. Gallagher

Mrs. Marie Fehmer

Miss Pamela Turnure

Meriman Smith – Press

Charles Roberts – Press

Edited by William Kelly
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Mary Dorman:

"He called me at the White House and told me to get home immediately. I was at the White House Historical Association office. There was only three of us – the man in charge, his name was Castro, he pulled the shades and we all knelt and prayed."

"We lived at Fort Myeron General's Row, and going past the cemetery I stopped at the "Chapel and the news was so fresh nobody knew. I knelt and prayed and didn't know whether totell them."

"I went home and I remember sitting around crying. We talked about it, I think there was fear, is this the beginning of what?"

"I went down to the White House when they brought the body there, and it was a mob scene. Everything was in chaos. Everybody was devistated."

"I did talk to my husband about it, but can't remember what he said. We watched the stupid tube and cried. I was in the kitchen cooking. Maybe he told my sons, and they remember what he had to say about it."

Telephone Interview with W. Kelly/ February 9, 2012.

Son Robert:

Was 12 or 13 at the time.

"He needed to get in touch with LeMay to tell him JFK was killed."

"My dad wasn't a big talker. That was a busy week and Idon't remember seeing him very much.

"He was in the funeral procession with Gen. LeMay."

"But he wasn't a talkative guy about what happened at work. He was a great guy, but kept quiet."

Edited by William Kelly
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Robert F. Kennedy named his son "Matthew Maxwell Taylor Kennedy," after the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1963. Should we infer from this close friendship that Maxwell Taylor was not working with Lemay (another member of the JCS) in the assassination, if Lemay was involved?

How willing and capable of conspiring were the other two Chiefs?

Edited by Andric Perez
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Robert F. Kennedy named his son "Matthew Maxwell Taylor Kennedy," after the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1963. Should we infer from this close friendship that Maxwell Taylor was not working with Lemay (another member of the JCS) in the assassination, if Lemay was involved?

How willing and capable of conspiring were the other two Chiefs?

I would think that the relationships between these men was more complicated than just figuring out who killed JFK, who wanted him killed and who were working together on anything.

Certainly, as the Raab Collection web site points out, there is intense interest in LeMay because of his pronounced dislike for JFK, and JFK's dislike for LeMay, yet they put up with each other, JFK implying that he liked LeMay as head of the Air Force because the Soviets feared him like the Nazi's feared Patton during WWII.

LeMay led the charge to invade Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, an option that we now know if occurred would have led to the release of tactical nuclear weapons that they had there under the control colonels on the battlefield, which certainly would have led to a thermonuclar world war.

LeMay was also the acting chief of staff during the Sept. 24 1963 meeting of the Joint Chiefs when Des Fitz of the CIA briefed them on the Cuban Ops, including the Valkyrie plan to get Cuban military officers to assassinate Castro and have a coup.

According to the AF1 tapes, LeMay, through Col. Hornebuckle at the SAC Command Post, tried to keep track of JFK's body, and immediately flew back to DC from a Canadian air base after spending time hunting in Michigan.

Though ordered to land at Andrews, LeMay's plane landed at DC National, closer to the Pentagon and Bethesda, if that is where he was during the autopsy.

The fact that the LeMay references were deleted from the AF1 tape that was officially released by the LBJ Library was suspicious to some people, and there are many questions as to LeMay's activities in relation to the assassination, but there's no evidence that he was directly involved in anything we are sure about.

BK

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