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The Route to Kennedy's Assassination


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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Recently, or should I say not long ago there has been a discussion about the very same topic, somewhere I read that there was indeed a change, my question is. The route scheduled to be driven was as follows: left turn from the south end of Love Field to West Mockingbird Lane, right on Lemmon Ave., right at the "Y" on Turtle Creek Blvd, straight on Cedar Springs Rd, left on North Harwood St, right on Main St, right on Houston St, sharp left on Elm St, through Triple Underpass, right turn up ramp to North Stemmons Freeway, to Dallas Trade Mart at 2100 North Stemmons (This same exact route cannot be driven today; there is a "No right turn" sign on the corner of Main and Houston as well as highway progressions in other areas)

The (original route) had the motorcade continue straight onto Main instead of turning onto Houston, but it was discovered that Elm Street provided the only direct link from Daley Plaza to the Stemmons Freeway, thus the route was altered.

Here's where it gets a bit tricky, if the route was "changed" at the eleventh hour would that have been enough time to set up shop behind the "grassy knoll" AND was this change made publicly? Also,

Oswald, who was an apparent marksmanship in handling weapons why would he miss from say his first apparent shot at the corner of Elm and Houston from the sixth floor only 50 yards away and wait till the president was 250 yards away for a head shot? Which doesn't make any sense if you're a marksmen.

Had the motorcade gone straight down Main the president in my opinion would have lived another day, why do I say this? Well, when exactly did the first shot ring out? Wasn't it when the president was already traveling down Elm St.? So how could Oswald having a clear shot at the president with NO obstruction or trees in the way make a (POC) point of contact hitting the president in the head within seven seconds getting off three shoots from 200-250 yards away through foliage? I'm not talking about just any kind of bushes. I'm talking about 25-30 ft trees.

Well we can get back to that later, what I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

Edited by Scott Kaiser
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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Recently, or should I say not long ago there has been a discussion about the very same topic, somewhere I read that there was indeed a change, my question is. The route scheduled to be driven was as follows: left turn from the south end of Love Field to West Mockingbird Lane, right on Lemmon Ave., right at the "Y" on Turtle Creek Blvd, straight on Cedar Springs Rd, left on North Harwood St, right on Main St, right on Houston St, sharp left on Elm St, through Triple Underpass, right turn up ramp to North Stemmons Freeway, to Dallas Trade Mart at 2100 North Stemmons (This same exact route cannot be driven today; there is a "No right turn" sign on the corner of Main and Houston as well as highway progressions in other areas)

The (original route) had the motorcade continue straight onto Main instead of turning onto Houston, but it was discovered that Elm Street provided the only direct link from Daley Plaza to the Stemmons Freeway, thus the route was altered.

Here's where it gets a bit tricky, if the route was "changed" at the eleventh hour would that have been enough time to set up shop behind the "grassy knoll" AND was this change made publicly? Also,

Oswald, who was an apparent marksmanship in handling weapons why would he miss from say his first apparent shot at the corner of Elm and Houston from the sixth floor only 50 yards away and wait till the president was 250 yards away for a head shot? Which doesn't make any sense if you're a marksmen.

Had the motorcade gone straight down Main the president in my opinion would have lived another day, why do I say this? Well, when exactly did the first shot ring out? Wasn't it when the president was already traveling down Elm St.? So how could Oswald having a clear shot at the president with NO obstruction or trees in the way make a (POC) point of contact hitting the president in the head within seven seconds getting off three shoots from 200-250 yards away through foliage? I'm not talking about just any kind of bushes. I'm talking about 25-30 ft trees.

Well we can get back to that later, what I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

Curious? Does anyone have a list of names? have they ever been recorded in the Warren Commission, HSCA, ARRB or anywhere else? <Just saying>. I like to work backwards.

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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Recently, or should I say not long ago there has been a discussion about the very same topic, somewhere I read that there was indeed a change, my question is. The route scheduled to be driven was as follows: left turn from the south end of Love Field to West Mockingbird Lane, right on Lemmon Ave., right at the "Y" on Turtle Creek Blvd, straight on Cedar Springs Rd, left on North Harwood St, right on Main St, right on Houston St, sharp left on Elm St, through Triple Underpass, right turn up ramp to North Stemmons Freeway, to Dallas Trade Mart at 2100 North Stemmons (This same exact route cannot be driven today; there is a "No right turn" sign on the corner of Main and Houston as well as highway progressions in other areas)

The (original route) had the motorcade continue straight onto Main instead of turning onto Houston, but it was discovered that Elm Street provided the only direct link from Daley Plaza to the Stemmons Freeway, thus the route was altered.

Here's where it gets a bit tricky, if the route was "changed" at the eleventh hour would that have been enough time to set up shop behind the "grassy knoll" AND was this change made publicly? Also,

Oswald, who was an apparent marksmanship in handling weapons why would he miss from say his first apparent shot at the corner of Elm and Houston from the sixth floor only 50 yards away and wait till the president was 250 yards away for a head shot? Which doesn't make any sense if you're a marksmen.

Had the motorcade gone straight down Main the president in my opinion would have lived another day, why do I say this? Well, when exactly did the first shot ring out? Wasn't it when the president was already traveling down Elm St.? So how could Oswald having a clear shot at the president with NO obstruction or trees in the way make a (POC) point of contact hitting the president in the head within seven seconds getting off three shoots from 200-250 yards away through foliage? I'm not talking about just any kind of bushes. I'm talking about 25-30 ft trees.

Well we can get back to that later, what I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

Curious? Does anyone have a list of names? have they ever been recorded in the Warren Commission, HSCA, ARRB or anywhere else? <Just saying>. I like to work backwards.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20673422/Dealey-plaza-annotated.png

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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

What I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

I do not believe the motorcade route was changed at the last minute, because no change was necessary. The Secret Service designed the route. They selected the Stemmons Freeway. An SS advance team always inspects an entire route weeks before a motorcade. It surpasses the bounds of credibility to think the SS missed the fact the freeway entrance was on Elm. The previous presidential motorcade in Dallas (FDR's) took Main Street all the way downtown. The only reason to use the newly built Stemmons Freeway was to force JFK's motorcade off Main and onto Elm, via a path that turned right onto Houston for one block, then left onto Elm – which was conveniently a 120-degree turn (almost a U-turn) at 11 mph – to plant the president like a sitting duck in the killing zone.

Biography: http://educationforu...dpost&p=235641

Edited by Michael Schweitzer
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Guest Tom Scully

How the heck can we display a thread on this forum with a title so vague and lacking any accompanying description as is happening so far, here?

Please suggest how the title can be revised to indicate the subject of the thread, and propose a descriptive subtitle, or the thread should be take down or merged with a properly titled and described thread featuring compatible subject matter with what has been posted here.

I added this temporary edit to the current thread "title" :

(A relevant title & description of this thread is pending.)

This forum is not for "IM" styled threads or a twitter.com format, or should we just sit back and let it take its course? The intent here was for a scholarly format. How far should we depart from that?

Will the next step be to title a thread as "?"

Edited by Tom Scully
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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

What I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

I do not believe the motorcade route was changed at the last minute, because no change was necessary. The Secret Service designed the route. They selected the Stemmons Freeway. An SS advance team always inspects an entire route weeks before a motorcade. It surpasses the bounds of credibility to think the SS missed the fact the freeway entrance was on Elm. The previous presidential motorcade in Dallas (FDR's) took Main Street all the way downtown. The only reason to use the newly built Stemmons Freeway was to force JFK's motorcade off Main and onto Elm, via a path that turned right onto Houston for one block, then left onto Elm – which was conveniently a 120-degree turn (almost a U-turn) at 11 mph – to plant the president like a sitting duck in the killing zone.

Biography: http://educationforu...dpost&p=235641

The only reason to use the newly built Stemmons Freeway was to force JFK's motorcade off Main and onto Elm, via a path that turned right onto Houston for one block, then left onto Elm – which was conveniently a 120-degree turn (almost a U-turn) at 11 mph – to plant the president like a sitting duck in the killing zone.

I have no logical debate nor can I refute your theory, hence the president was killed there which is fact, the ongoing argument that the route has been changed within the eleventh hour of the "original path" would only raise the question as to (IF) there was indeed a chance (1) who suggested the change, (2) who approved the change, (3) how many knew of the change?

Could the shooter(s) behind the "Grassy Knoll" have the same advantages had the motorcade continued down the route FRD took? Although, it would have seemed be be a much longer route to take to enter Stemmons Freeway the shooter(s) would have been at a disadvantage and clear head-shot would have been near impossible with as many spectators around.

Has every name been accounted for on who had personal knowledge the apparent motorcade route? <Just saying>. Wondering too.

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How the heck can we display a thread on this forum with a title so vague and lacking any accompanying description as is happening so far, here?

Please suggest how the title can be revised to indicate the subject of the thread, and propose a descriptive subtitle, or the thread should be take down or merged with a properly titled and described thread featuring compatible subject matter with what has been posted here.

This forum is not for "IM" styled threads or a twitter.com format, or should we just sit back and let it take its course? The intent here was for a scholarly format. How far should we depart from that?

Will the next step be to title a thread as ?

Tom,

I can see your concern, however, a near title does not trump the important information being discussed at hand, however, if it would make you feel any better, you may at anytime interject, edit or modify what you think maybe an appropriate title or simply move this information to the appropriate thread.

I started off with several questions therefore dubbing this thread/title as "Questions". Any modifications to the title itself may at anytime be corrected by you or any of the monitors whom within themselves have the power to change. Lastly, I don't know how to "change" the title after I've already excepted it, with that said. I see you have taken the liberty to announce the "description of this thread is pending". Then would you please change it to "The route to Kennedy's assassination." and under "Topic Description" if you would be nice enough to add (The men who knew). Thanking you in advance.

/srk

Edited by Scott Kaiser
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  • 3 weeks later...

I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

What I'd like to know most of all is if the change took place on the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas who all knew about it if it wasn't made public? Hmmm?

I do not believe the motorcade route was changed at the last minute, because no change was necessary. The Secret Service designed the route. They selected the Stemmons Freeway. An SS advance team always inspects an entire route weeks before a motorcade. It surpasses the bounds of credibility to think the SS missed the fact the freeway entrance was on Elm. The previous presidential motorcade in Dallas (FDR's) took Main Street all the way downtown. The only reason to use the newly built Stemmons Freeway was to force JFK's motorcade off Main and onto Elm, via a path that turned right onto Houston for one block, then left onto Elm – which was conveniently a 120-degree turn (almost a U-turn) at 11 mph – to plant the president like a sitting duck in the killing zone.

Biography: http://educationforu...dpost&p=235641

The only reason to use the newly built Stemmons Freeway was to force JFK's motorcade off Main and onto Elm, via a path that turned right onto Houston for one block, then left onto Elm – which was conveniently a 120-degree turn (almost a U-turn) at 11 mph – to plant the president like a sitting duck in the killing zone.

I have no logical debate nor can I refute your theory, hence the president was killed there which is fact, the ongoing argument that the route has been changed within the eleventh hour of the "original path" would only raise the question as to (IF) there was indeed a chance (1) who suggested the change, (2) who approved the change, (3) how many knew of the change?

Could the shooter(s) behind the "Grassy Knoll" have the same advantages had the motorcade continued down the route FRD took? Although, it would have seemed be be a much longer route to take to enter Stemmons Freeway the shooter(s) would have been at a disadvantage and clear head-shot would have been near impossible with as many spectators around.

Has every name been accounted for on who had personal knowledge the apparent motorcade route? <Just saying>. Wondering too.

This is my understanding: Kennedy advisor Kenneth O'Donnell made the decision to hold the 1963-11-22 Dallas luncheon at the Trade Mart. Eight days before the luncheon, on 1963-11-14, Gerald Behn, Secret Service Agent in Charge of the White House Detail, tasked Special Agents William G. Lawson of the Detail and Forrest V. Sorrels in charge of the Dallas office to design a motorcade route from Love Field to the Trade Mart. (They had first been advised of the Texas trip on 1963-11-4.) They planned a route that included the Stemmons Freeway, which necessitated the hairpin turn onto Elm to access the onramp. So no change in route was needed to make it pass the TSDB. And if Lawson and Sorrels had not chosen to use the freeway but kept the motorcade on Main Street, I do not find credible Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell or anyone else having authority to overrule a locked-in Secret Service decision.

Edited by Michael Schweitzer
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  • 7 months later...

A recent trip to Dealey Plaza was a revelation for me. The killing zone is at the bottom of a bowl, and reality doesn't exist down there. It's as if the truth floats somewhere over that place. GPS doesn't work right, among other things and the impression I got in traveling the motorcade route down Elm Street a half-dozen times was that the shots probably didn't actually happen exactly at the two X marks that are painted on the street (one for the throat shot, one for the head shot), but that there is a concerted effort being made to make everything match the Zapruder film. There are actually two "Elm Streets" at the corner of Houston in front of the Book Depository building. One comes at a 90 degree angle like a normal street intersection, and it's possible that Greer was turning onto *that* Elm Street and realized his mistake (resulting in the car nearly hitting the curb). The killing zone comes in at a sharper angle and immediately begins descending below "ground level" into a place where truth doesn't exist. If you pan up from the bullet mark on the cement cover of the sewer on the south side of Elm Street your view comes to the top of the Dallas Records building -- the only elevated place where a bullet leaving that straight, deep cut in the concrete cover could possibly have come from (certainly not the Depository). I walked the length of the fence on the Knoll, stood on the North sewer grate and looked at the traffic coming toward me. There are several excellent vantage points for shooters there, and plenty of cover too, on both sides of the Plaza. The 2nd floor window of the Dal-Tex building that used to be behind the fire escape is in an office now. There was a desk with papers on it visible from the 7th floor of the Bood Depository building. I wonder if the occupant knows that it used to be a closet and what went on in there. I won't ever go back to Dealey Plaza.

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Thanks for the update Steven...there is a photo, in hiding right now, from the W/C of the view from the cement apron leading to the Dallas Records Building, i shall post it for you when it decides to be found, again, thanks, you may be interested in,,for now b

Manhole cover..hit...FBI memorandum

http://www.history-m...H24_CE_2111.pdf

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/sewerShot.html

Sewer Shot in JFK Assassination

Edited by Bernice Moore
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The sewer shot was rarely mentioned by researchers or the public after Lane focused on the Grassy Knoll, but a few of us kept seeking the evidence. Subsequent "tell all" books by alleged participants usually repeat the standard locations, the TSBD window or the Grassy Knoll, for verisimilitude. A book published in the 1990's, long after it would have been fashionable to lie about the sewer location, titled Treason is My Daily Bread, by Mikhail Ledbedev, reveals his role in a plot involving Nazi intelligent agent Reinhard Gehlen to kill Kennedy in Dallas, and mentions that he was sent to shoot from the storm sewer. He may be covering for the real assassin in this, but by picking the sewer location he adds credibility to his account in my view. There are many other indications that Gehlen and his cold war spy network that formed our CIA were part of the JFK assassination conspiracy.

Source:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/sewerShot.html

Evidence of link between Nazis still in operation after World War II to the still unsolved murder of John F. Kennedy

by Mae Brussell

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html

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Steven; fwtaw...these are not what i have been looking for, but may be of interest the Tague hit, which led back to the closet window of the Dal Tex Building i believe...b

SS re-enactment white car....Nov.27/63

FBI re-enactment Specter May 1964...black car.....Queen Mary

Shaneyfelt ; Tague shot...Investigation...

Current Section: Shaneyfelt Ex 26 - FBI report, dated July 17, 1964, concerning investigation into curb mark on Main Street in Dallas

One July 15th, 1964 two special agents of the FBI accompanied by Tom Dillard, DMN, and James Underwood KRLD/TV aligned three reference points, in a photo of the TSBD of the mark on the curb.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1138&relPageId=496

Shaneyfelt Photos.....

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1138&relPageId=502

b

Edited by Bernice Moore
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I have some questions about the "MOTORCADE ROUTE CHANGED AT THE LAST MINUTE?" In the years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination in 1963, many conspiracy theorists have latched onto the completely-unsupportable notion that the motorcade route was changed at the eleventh hour just prior to President Kennedy's drive through downtown Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Recently, or should I say not long ago there has been a discussion about the very same topic, somewhere I read that there was indeed a change, my question is. The route scheduled to be driven was as follows: left turn from the south end of Love Field to West Mockingbird Lane, right on Lemmon Ave., right at the "Y" on Turtle Creek Blvd, straight on Cedar Springs Rd, left on North Harwood St, right on Main St, right on Houston St, sharp left on Elm St, through Triple Underpass, right turn up ramp to North Stemmons Freeway, to Dallas Trade Mart at 2100 North Stemmons (This same exact route cannot be driven today; there is a "No right turn" sign on the corner of Main and Houston as well as highway progressions in other areas)

The (original route) had the motorcade continue straight onto Main instead of turning onto Houston, but it was discovered that Elm Street provided the only direct link from Daley Plaza to the Stemmons Freeway, thus the route was altered.

Here's where it gets a bit tricky, if the route was "changed" at the eleventh hour would that have been enough time to set up shop behind the "grassy knoll" AND was this change made publicly? Also,

On the morning of the assassination The Dallas Morning News had the headline “Love Field braces for thousands and detailed security net spread for Kennedy”. The newspaper also included a small map of the President’s motorcade route, which would take him from Love Field to the new modern Trade Mart. However this map only indicated the motorcade would travel west on Main Street through the Triple Underpass and on to Stemmons Freeway, ending at the Trade Mart, where Kennedy was scheduled to attend a luncheon.

The Dallas Times Herald gave a more detailed description of the route. It pointed out that the motorcade would “pass through downtown on Harwood then west on Main, turning back to Elm at Houston and then out Stemmons Freeway to the Trade Mart.” The fastest and safest route for the presidential motorcade from Love Field to the Trade Mart, where Kennedy was going to give a speech, was only four miles, but this was eventually rejected for a longer (10 miles) and more circuitous drive through downtown Dallas to allow more people to see the president. This surprised some security experts as this zigzag motorcade route violated Secret Service procedures.

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Thanks John;

from an old post;

The original route, which was to take the motorcade straight down Main Street, was printed on the front page of the November 22, 1963 early edition of the Dallas Morning News...

Later a large plain, grey square appeared in a later edition, in the exact same place where the original route was printed in the early edition?......

It has been said that the change was made so that the motorcade could get onto the Stemmons Freeway. .that there was a curb, a divider....that the motorcade would have had to have driven over....now keep in mind, I guess, that apparently Dignitaries do not like bumps...now this was......Not a high divider by any means...and a car could have driven over it.....I have read...but one, none the less....

But also there was a dreaded " No Turn Sign" and we cannot have such allowances made for, the President of the U.S nor the V.P let alone the Governor nor the rest of the dignitaries, breaking the law now, could we..?..sheesh...

See the enormous mountain of a bump..... and the dreaded dangerous no turn sign in photo below.....

BUT........The motorcade could also have just as easily gone straight down the Main Street, to the Trade Mart by way of Industrial Blvd. ..ta da......

The change was against the SS standards in creating such a slow down as to present access to the President with all of the dangerous aspects that went along with such...see Palamara's Link .....

There is also within the W/C Hearings & Exhibits the DMN map taken from that paper, showing the blank space....though I do not have the link right now....a search would turn it up...

There are the map diagrams also from the DMN of Nov.22.63 in Fetzer's, as well as Garrison & Walt Brown's books...also information in Livingstone's..

*****************************

TESTIMONY OF WINSTON G. LAWSON, ACCOMPANIED BY FRED B. SMITH, DEPUTY GENERAL COUNSEL, TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Mr. LAWSON. I imagine it was a little faster at this time,

sir, because the downtown section where it was quite heavily populated

with people watching the motorcade, we had been out of that for a while before we got to the Houston Street turn. So we were probably

back up to perhaps 12 or 15 miles an hour by then.

Mr. McCLOY. But you would have had to slow up a bit coming

around the curve.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Mr. Lawson, can you tell us why you didn't plan the

motorcade so that it went straight down Main Street to turn right on

to the entrance to the freeway instead of taking this dogleg on

Houston and Elm?

Mr. DULLES. Jerry, will you take over.

Page 333

Representative FORD. Will you proceed please, Mr. Stern?

Mr. STERN. Yes.

Mr. LAWSON. You mean why we didn't come straight down Main

Street to the Stemmons Freeway?

Mr. STERN. Right.

Mr. LAWSON. Because it is my understanding there isn't any

entrance to the freeway on Main Street...

Mr. STERN. But you don't yourself recall now or do you?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, I was told that there wasn't any entrance

that way, and I myself once when I went to the Trade Mart, not knowing

that there was any entrance to it, went down Main Street, You must

enter the freeway going in the direction that We wanted to go from the

Elm Street extension.

Mr. STERN. When you went down Main Street you found that you could not get on to the entrance to the Stemmons Freeway?

Mr. LAWSON. Going the direction on the freeway towards the

Trade Mart, that is correct.

Mr. STERN. Which is the direction the motorcade was to go?

Mr. LAWSON. Was to go; yes, sir.

http://jfkassassinat...mony/lawson.htm

*******************************

From Vince Palamara.....

THE SPECIAL AGENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE DETAIL, GERALD A. BEHN, TOLD ME ON 9/27/92

THAT THE ROUTE WAS CHANGED IN DALLAS---

THE HSCA EVEN ASKED HIM WHY (NOT IF) THE

ROUTE WAS INDEED CHANGED IN *EXECUTIVE SESSION* (THESE RECORDS ARE STILL NOT

RELEASED)!

BEHN, TO ME ON 9/27/92, RE: THE HSCA: "ISN'T THAT THE ONE THAT STOKES

WAS ON?

WELL, THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHY THE ROUTE WAS CHANGED---I KNOW IT WAS

CHANGED, BUT WHY---I'VE FORGOTTEN COMPLETELY; I DON'T KNOW"

**********************

See Fact #6:

In a related matter.....

http://web.archive.o...tsheet_vmp.html

***************************************

Advance man Marty Underwood ,worked on the planning of JFK's Texas tour

- specifically, his proposed stops at Houston and Austin....

In an exclusive interview conducted on 10/9/92, the author obtained the following new information [similar in content to what Underwood told "Evening Magazine" on 11/22/88, his only TV appearance]:

- Underwood became "an honorary Secret Service agent" and served under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson. While with LBJ, he became the "aide in charge of the Secret Service." The advance man confirmed to this author that JFK did not restrict agents from riding on the Presidential limousine. Underwood told Harrison Livingstone: "There were so many things that fell through in Dallas. Any advance man who had any sense at all would never have taken him down that route." When Livingstone commented that the route was changed, Underwood added: "Yeah, I know. You don't take a guy down a route like that."("High Treason 2", by Harry Livingstone, page 442)

DNC advance man Underwood and uniformed agent Norris were two men who strongly criticized the route in interviewsLink to the HSCA Appendix to Hearings..Volume X1

(http://web.archive.o...sp_denials.html

If interested Link to the HSCA Appendix to Hearings ...Volume X1

on the motorcade route...

http://history-matte...Vol11_0257a.htm

*************************

"" Furthermore, the #1 agent in the president's detail Jerry Behn, told me ( Vince Palamara) that the Dallas route was changed from some other (unknown) choice, as the House Select Committee on Assassinations asked him in Executive Session in still unpublished testimony in the late 1970s.

Furthermore, agents Kinney and Winston G. Lawson confirmed for this author that there were indeed alternate routes (two, according to Kinney), and the author discovered much confusion in the newspapers and perhaps unwitting obfuscation in the strangely conflicting accounts of the route Kennedy was to take in Dallas.""

*********************

This below, I found within an e-mail...and seems to be a couple of years old, I believe it to be from Vince Palamara.if not ??

Most of this analysis of the motorcade route is taken from WC and/or HSCA testimony.

WHD Jerry Behn revealed some details that the route had been changed for Dallas (as the HSCA had inquired of him in Executive Session)-Behn should know: besides being the SAIC, Win Lawson told the HSCA that the selection of the motorcade route involved Behn (HSCA11516).

Both Sam Kinney and Winston Lawson had mentioned ALTERNATE routes, including Main to Industrial (also:4H326).

Advance man Jack Puterbaugh had also told the HSCA investigators about driving over alternate routes with Sorrels, as a new document dated 4/14/78 reveals.

I strongly believe that the route was changed after advance agent David Grant's arrival on 11/18/63 from the Florida trip, where he worked with Boring on the planning of this trip before doing the same in

Texas (18H789;17H601).

Lawson told the WC that the route could be changed on 11/19/63 if need be (4H341).

Although Chief Rowley knew releasing motorcade routes to the press was against Secret Service rules, he stated that this breach of regulations in Dallas was not done by the Secret Service; even Lawson had told the WC that he didn't know who had announced the route in the papers (4H340).

However, Bill Moyers, who, along with his assistant, Betty Harris, was working with the Secret Service, told the HSCA that the authority to print the motorcade route in Dallas was done with the cooperation of an unnamed agent he characterized as "in charge of the Dallas trip"-if true, this was Floyd Boring.

Houston and Austin advance man Marty Underwood and Uniformed Officer John Norris both harshly criticized the choice of route to me, as this was a route which violated Secret Service regulations by involving a 120 degree turn in a warehouse district (the TSBD), which would slow the limousine to a dangerous speed.

Evidently, some real subterfuge was involved in the release of the actual route to be used on 11/22/63, for not only did many newspapers contradict each other with the details of the exact outline of the route, but, as revealed in a WC Document (Griffin to Rankin re: Dallas Police) recently found amongst some HSCA files, it was written that "from an administrative standpoint, (DPD's Charles) Batchelor believed that the failure of the Secret Service to inform the police adequately in advance of the exact route to organizing their men and taking the necessary security precautions".

In addition, Governor Connolly stated that he also was never informed about the exact route to be taken on 11/22/63 (New York Herald Tribune, 11/29/63)!

If both Greer and Kellerman can be believed when they told the WC that they had no knowledge of the route either (2H111,121), it appears then that the lead car they were following-containing Chief Curry, Sheriff Decker, and, most importantly, Forrest Sorrels and Winston Lawson-dictated the actual route to be used on 11/22/63.

Incredibly, even the route was blamed on JFK- it was supposedly "entirely appropriate in view of the known desires of the President" (WR)!;

In addition, although the WC claimed that the route was "selected by Agent Lawson" (WR195(Assoc. Press)),

the HSCA learned from Lawson that he could NOT identify the person who selected the hazardous, 120-degree Elm Street turn (HSCA11522).

Incredibly, the WC had taken testimony from Agent Sorrels who claimed that HE was the actual person who selected the dog-leg turn!

I believe the HSCA was correct when they stated that Lawson "did not have control over the final determination of the route" (HSCA11521)-

The arrival of advance agent David Grant from the Florida trip was a profound influence at work here;

Even though the use of 18 motorcycles for JFK's motorcade in Dallas had been approved on 11/20/63, there were no Secret Service agents present at this security meeting.

At the 11/21/63 meeting, 3 agents were in attendance, including agent David Grant, who made the claim that JFK did not "desire" that many motorcycles, or even ANY motorcycles on each side of him, but only to the rear (HSCA11527,529).

Strangely, the original plan was used in all of the prior Texas stops-San Antonio, Houston, and even Fort Worth on the very morning of 11/22/63 (NBC video)!

According to some in the DPD, they had received this "change of plans" at Love Field (HSCA11528).

The HSCA appropriately termed this appalling situation "uniquely insecure";

David Grant also cancelled the DPD squad car over the protests of Chief Curry (HSCA11529-530);

Not only were the Secret Service responsible for the motorcade's vehicle order, the placement of several vehicles-including the Presidential limousine- were changed from their original order (25H786; 17H618; 4H322;

"Murder From Within", pp.37-39);

Although the Secret Service was responsible for the overpasses being totally free of any spectators, this was not adhered to in Dealey Plaza (4H351);

The media, White House Photographer Cecil Stoughton, Pres. aide Godfrey McHugh, and Dr. Burkley were placed further back in the motorcade from where they normally were positioned: near the front, near JFK (CFTR radio 1976; Manchester, p.169; Bishop, pp. 109-110, 133-134).

McHugh said that this was "unusual"; even Greer admitted that many times an aide rode in the front seat of the limo with the driver and the supervisor (2H129).

Press photographer Tom Dillard told C-SPAN on 11/22/93 that the press photographers' flatbed truck that traditionally rode in front of the Presidential limousine was "cancelled at the last minute", adding that "we were put in Chevrolet convertibles six cars back" that "put us totally out of the picture".

Even the press bus, which usually followed the Secret Service follow-up car, was placed further back in the motorcade.

Stoughton rode in the follow-up car taking pictures 11/18-11/21/63 but was “replaced” by Dave Powers for the Dallas trip. Stoughton admitted to me that many times he rode here AND on the rear of the limo taking film. In fact, on page 160 of his book, he stated that Jackie Kennedy wanted him to ride in the follow-up car from July 1963 onward!;

The ambulance that would have been on standby in case of injury to JFK was gone from the scene a few minutes before the shooting, carrying an alleged Dealey Plaza "seizure victim" (WFAA TV, interview with Aubrey Rike and Dennis McGuire, 11/22/63; Curry, pp. 27-28);

JFK/LBJ: same city, same motorcade, in slow-moving open vehicles in close proximity to each other-this was unique (interview with Bolden, 9/16/93; 4H336).

This is the exact reason why the president and the VP to this day fly on different planes-you are never to have them travel so close together in such a compromising position!;

Lawson told both the WC and the HSCA that he could not recall giving instructions to watch building windows, "although it was his usual practice to do so". DPD Captain Perdue Lawrence confirmed that NO instructions were given (WR197(Assoc. Press version); HSCA11526).

Although Treasury Secretary C. Douglas Dillon tried to claim after-the-fact that it was "not the practice of the Secret Service to make surveys or checks of buildings along the route of a Presidential motorcade" (CD3),

Chief Inspector Michael W. Torina told author William Manchester in 1961 that wherever a Presidential motorcade must slow down for a turn, the entire intersection must be checked in advance (Manchester, p.32).

*****************************

Winston Lawson ALSO testifieD to the Warren Commission that he had been an agent in the Army CounterIntelligence Corps. (Military Intelligence):.link above....

Mr. STERN: Briefly, what was your employment experience from 1949 to 1959.

Mr. LAWSON: From the time of my graduation after a couple of months working for a firm that my father worked for, I became a wholesale carpet salesman until December 1951, and then I joined the Carnation Co., manufacturers of milk products nationally, and was a representative in various capacities for them in New York State. In 1953, March, I went in the Army and I had been a reservist and was called up as a CIC agent. I had 16 weeks of basic infantry, basic training, went to the CIC Counterintelligence School in Holabird, Md.--Fort Holabird, Md.--outside of Baltimore, and then was assigned eventually to the Lexington field office where I did general counterintelligence work for the Army, background investigations, and some interviews of the prisoners, POW's from the Korean war.

Mr. McCLOY: When you say CIC agent you mean----

Mr. LAWSON: Counterintelligence agent; yes, sir, in the Army. 4 H 318

Next, Lawson tells the Commission that when the President's limo slows down enough, the agents run alongside the car.

Mr. McCLOY: It was part of your routine duties when you were going through a street in any city, to look at the windows as well as the crowds?

Mr. LAWSON: Yes, sir; and if the President's car slowed to such a point or the crowd ever pressed in to such a point that people are getting too close to the President, the agents always get out and go along the car. 4 H 327

*****************************

From : Evelyn Lincoln's book, Kennedy & Johnson (1968).

She states that JFK was very reluctant to go on the trip to Texas;

“Advance reports from our own staff and from many other people gave us cause to worry about the tense climate in Texas – and most especially, in Dallas.

Dallas was removed and then put back on the planned itinerary several times. Our own advance man urged that the motorcade not take the route through the underpass and past the Book Depository, but he was overruled

Edited by Bernice Moore
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In his book, JFK Assassination File (1969) Jesse Curry said that Secret Service advance man Winston G. Lawson was the “central figure and primary planner of all security arrangements” (page 10). However, Lawson later disputed this and said that “he had nothing to do with the selection of the Main-Houston-Elm turn" (House Select Committee of Assassinations Report - IIHSCA522)

A total of 178 police officers had been assigned to control the expected crowd of 250,000 people and to observe the estimated 20,000 open windows along the parade route. The authors of High Treason (1989) have argued: “Originally, the limousine would have proceeded straight down Main Street when it came to the end of the business district, and then gone directly onto Stemmons Freeway. Ordinarily, Secret Service regulations provide that the Presidential limousine is to proceed at a good speed and not take unnecessary or hazardous routes which would slow it down. The procedural manual requires the car to move at 44 miles an hour.” (page 156) Of course, when the motorcade arrived in Dealey Plaza it was travelling at 12 miles an hour.

Another interesting fact was the press bus usually was at the head of a motorcade. This time it was placed in 14th place in the procession. This was the reason why the only newsman to witness the assassination was James Altgens, a photographer with Associated Press.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKaltgens.htm

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