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Missing Church Committee Testimony

JFKCountercoup2

JFKCountercoup2: Missing Church Committee Testimony

From Steve Tilley JFK Liaiaon

Textual Reference Division

NARA

April 17, 1995

Charles Battaglia

Staff Director

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

211 Hart Senate Office Building

Washington, D.C. 20510

Dear Mr. Battaglia:

It has come to my attention that certain transcripts of testimony given before the Select Committee To Study Governmental Operations With Respect To Intelligence Activities may not be among the records transferred to the National Archives for inclusion in the JFK Collection. I discussed this matter with Ms. Judy Hodgson on April 13, and she suggested that I inform you in writing about this matter.

Early last week, I received a phone call from a researcher who has spent considerable time reviewing the Church Committee records. The researcher informed me that he had been reviewing again Book V of the Committee's final report which is entitled "The Investigation Of The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy: Performance of Intelligence Agencies." The researcher directed me to page 42 of the report where testimony by the "FBI supervisor," dated April 8, 1976, was referenced in footnote 113. The researcher stated that he did not remember seeing this transcript during his research and asked if Icould locate it.

Due to the intense interest in the Church Committee records,I had a member of my staff create a folder title list for the records so we would have a finding aid for the records. A finding aid was needed since we have not received the data disk for these records. I instructed the individual making the list to be as precise as possible in describing each folder and to specifically list each transcript of testimony by name of witness and date. Iam enclosing a copy of this list for your information.

In response to the researcher's inquiry, I learned that the testimony of the "FBI supervisor" was not among the records in our custody. I began to read other footnotes in the report and realized that other transcriptsof testimony were referenced that I had not seen on our list. I decided to review every footnote in the report and compiled of (sic a) list of transcriptsof testimony, summaries of interviews, and affidavits described in the footnotes that are not among our holdings. I have also enclosed a copy of this list for your use. I call your attention to the fact that most of these transcripts are dated in 1976. A review of our folder title list shows that most of the transcripts in the records in our custody are dated in 1975. It goes without saying that the individuals who gave this testimony, whether identified by name or title, are very significant persons in the history of the assassination.

While compiling this list, I remembered other testimony that was supposedly taken from the Church Committee but not among these records. One researcher has informed me that John Rosselli testified before the Committee on June 24, 1975, and April 23, 1976. The only transcriptswe have for Rosselli are September 22, and September 23, 1975. Another researcher has informed me that Evelyn Lincoln, President Kennedy's secretary, testified or was interviewed by the Committee staff. We have been unable to locate any documents relating to this issue.

I am also enclosing a copy of a document created by the Committee staff, apparently around the middle of August 1975, entitled "Assassination Testimony File." This document was located by the individual who compiled the folder title list. I have compared this document with the folder title list and highlighted in yellow the transcripts that we located while compiling the folder title list. While this document only lists testimony taken early in the Committee's history, there still appears to be significant documents from 1975 that are also not in our holdings. I realize that some of these individuals may have testified about other events under investigation by the Committee. However, some of the documents listed are clearly assassination related, such as Rosselli's testimony of June 24, 1975, and Richard Helm's testimony of June 13, 1975.

Ms. Hodgson informed me that the records of the Church Committee are stored in the National Archives Building in downtown Washington, D.C. If you decide to search the Committee's records again for these documents, I would be pleased to assist your staff in conducting that search if that would facilitate this matter. I will also be pleased to arrange assistance from the staff of our Center for Legislative Archives if you wish.

Please contact me on (301) 713-6620 if you wish to discuss this matter. As I informed Ms. Hodgson, I have informed the Assassinations Records Review Board about this issue.

Sincerely,

Signed

STEVEN D. TILLEY

JFK Liaisoin

Textual Reference Division

(NARA)

Enclosures

Cc: Dr. David Marwell

ExecutiveDirector

AssassinationsRecords Review Board.

LIST OF MISSING CHURCH COMMITTEE TESTIMONY

(Includes some interviews and summaries)

  • FBI Supervisor, 4/8/76 (Footnote 113, page 42)
  • Chief, SAS/CI, 5/10/76 (Footnote 32, page 17)
  • Western Hemisphere Division Desk Officer, 5/7/76 (Footnote 12, page 25)
  • Thomas Karamessines, 4/18/76 (Footnote 13, page 25)
  • Amlash Case Officer, 2/11/76 (Footnote 31, page 17)
  • Executive Officer, 4/22/76 (Footnote 32, page 17)
  • Section Chief, 5/11/76 (Footnote 7, page 11)
  • Chief JMWAVE, 5/6/76 and/or 5/16/76 (Footnote) 8, page 11, and footnote 19, page 14)
  • Intelligence Officer, 5/10/76 (Footnote 13, page 13)
  • Richard Helms, 6/13/75 (Footnote 33, page 18)
  • CIA Liaison Officer, 5/7/76 (Footnote 52, page 30)
  • Staff Interview of CIA Analyst, 3/15/76 (Footnote 62, page 31)
  • Staff Interview of William C. Sullivan, 4/21/76 (Footnote 70, page 34)
  • Alex Rosen, 4/30/76 (Footnote 76, page 35)
  • FBI Supervisor I, 4/27/76 (Footnote 78, page 35)
  • FBI Supervisor II, 2/27/76 (Footnote 78, page 35)
  • FBI Supervisor III, 4/29/76 (Footnote 78, page 35)
  • General Investigative Division Supervisor, 3/31/76 (Footnote 80, page 36 and footnote 27, page 81)
  • Soviet Section Supervisor, 4/23/76(Footnote 86, page 36)
  • Former Section Chief, 5/11/76 (Footnote 89, page 37) This may be the same person as item #7.
  • Supervisor, 5/5/76 (Footnote 90, page 37)
  • Mexico City Legat, 2/4/76 (Footnote 100, page 40)
  • FBI Special Agent, 12/5/76 (Footnote 34, page 52)
  • SAC, 12/20/76 (Footnote 36, page 52)
  • Staff Interview of FBI Inspector, 3/20/76 (Footnote 54, page 56)
  • Staff Discussion with Ambassador John Sherman Cooper, 5/24/76 (Footnote 120, page 67)
  • James Angleton, 2/6/76 (Footnote 134, page 69)
  • James J. Rowley, 2/13/76 (Footnote 21, page 80)
  • FBI Agent I, 5/3/76 (Footnote 44, page 83)
  • FBI Agent II, 4/13/76 (Footnote 44, page 83)
  • Washington Lawyer, 3/17/76 (Footnote 45, page 83)
  • Supervisor, 3/31/76 (Footnote 53, page 85) This may be the same person as item #18.
  • Client No. 1, 4/23/76 (Footnote 55, page 85)
  • Client No. 2, 4/28/76 (Footnote 55, page 85)
  • James Hosty, 12/12/75 (Footnote 6, page 87)
  • Staff summary with former FBI Headquarters Supervisor, 1/16/76 (Footnote 15, page 89)
  • FBI Headquarters Supervisor, 3/15/76 (Footnote 15, page 89) This may be the same individual as item #36.
  • James Hosty, 12/13/75 (Footnote 17, page 89)
  • INS inspector, 12/19/75 (Footnote 1, page 95)
  • J. Gordon Shanklin, 12/19/75 (Footnote 1, page 95)
  • Affidavits of various FBI personnel, pages 96-97

Edited by William Kelly
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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I don't know the answers to your questions Jim, but the way its put, that the ARRB will help the committee staff look for it, if they want to bother to go to the trouble, makes me think that they just didn't bother.

BK

JFKcountercoup

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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.

So I guess this material was never really lost.

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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.

So I guess this material was never really lost.

No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.

And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.

There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.

If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.

BK

JFKcountercoup

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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.

So I guess this material was never really lost.

No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.

And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.

There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.

If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Where did SS Bane say this, and when? Do you have proof he said this?

Joe Backes

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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.

So I guess this material was never really lost.

No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.

And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.

There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.

If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Where did SS Bane say this, and when? Do you have proof he said this?

Joe Backes

He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.

Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.

BK

JFKcountercoup: The Kennedy Detail - Kelly's Review

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This is a real good find.

Was any of this stuff found? I don't think the Roselli stuff was, was it?

And why was so much of it anonymous?

The ARRB is looking worse and worse.

I obtained all this from Rex Bradford 7 years ago. And read almost all of it. I double-checked a few of them, and it looks like they're all up on the Mary Ferrell site.

So I guess this material was never really lost.

No one claimed they were lost. It is a record of them keeping track of the obviously historical records they are intentionally destroying.

And that's a fact. Many of these docs are up at Mary Ferrell, which proves the point John Newman made many years ago - that they never make one copy of any document, unless it is a very dangerous one, as the purpose of making documents is to pass the info on to others. It's just they never suspected that these records would be ever revealed to the public - and the excuse that the records requested have been destroyed is just a bogus excuse to get around having to provide them.

There are copies of the unedited AF1 radio transcripts out there, SS Agent Blane says that he has kept copies of the SS Advance reports for Miami and Chicago that they intentionally destroyed after they were requested by the ARRB, and he's kept them in a box in his closet.

If you believe the Navy completely lost the entire office records for Admiral Rufus Taylor, the Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), then our Navy must be so incompetent that we might as well surrender.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Where did SS Bane say this, and when? Do you have proof he said this?

Joe Backes

He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.

Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.

BK

JFKcountercoup: The Kennedy Detail - Kelly's Review

Thanks Bill. I do have the book. Is this SS Jerry Blaine you're talking about? I think you are. It's Blaine. He states he has kept copies of SS records that refute Abraham Bolden's story of a possible assassination attempt on JFK in early November 1963.

Blaine also states, and this is the first time this excuse has been brought up as far as I know, that the reason for the cancellation of the trip to Chicago was the death of Diem in Vietnam.

LBJ's place in Washington, D.C. called The Elms has interested me for years. A place worthy of study, especially who goes in and out, and when to see LBJ.

Joe

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....He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.

Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.

BK

JFKcountercoup: The Kennedy Detail - Kelly's Review

Thanks Bill. I do have the book. Is this SS Jerry Blaine you're talking about? I think you are. It's Blaine. He states he has kept copies of SS records that refute Abraham Bolden's story of a possible assassination attempt on JFK in early November 1963.

Blaine also states, and this is the first time this excuse has been brought up as far as I know, that the reason for the cancellation of the trip to Chicago was the death of Diem in Vietnam.

LBJ's place in Washington, D.C. called The Elms has interested me for years. A place worthy of study, especially who goes in and out, and when to see LBJ.

Joe

From Bill's review:

As related in William Manchester’s book The Death of the President, Agent Blaine claims that he was told by the head of the White House Detail,

Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) Jerry Behn, that while in Tampa four days before the assassination, the president told Behn “To keep Ivy League

Charlatans off the bumper, back there.” (18)

To Behn, this was taken as a request they didn’t officially enter into any report, but orally passed along (over the radio) to other agents,

such as Blaine and Hill, which resulted in the agents being ordered off the bumper of the presidential limo for the Dallas motorcade from

Love Field to Dealey Plaza. The order given and the result being a dead president.

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....He says it in his book The Kennedy Detail.

Read it, it's has a lot of important information, especially about Jerry Behn, a major player on the AF1 tapes, and the take SS over of LBJ's house after the assassination.

BK

JFKcountercoup: The Kennedy Detail - Kelly's Review

Thanks Bill. I do have the book. Is this SS Jerry Blaine you're talking about? I think you are. It's Blaine. He states he has kept copies of SS records that refute Abraham Bolden's story of a possible assassination attempt on JFK in early November 1963.

Blaine also states, and this is the first time this excuse has been brought up as far as I know, that the reason for the cancellation of the trip to Chicago was the death of Diem in Vietnam.

LBJ's place in Washington, D.C. called The Elms has interested me for years. A place worthy of study, especially who goes in and out, and when to see LBJ.

Joe

From Bill's review:

As related in William Manchester’s book The Death of the President, Agent Blaine claims that he was told by the head of the White House Detail,

Special Agent In Charge (SAIC) Jerry Behn, that while in Tampa four days before the assassination, the president told Behn “To keep Ivy League

Charlatans off the bumper, back there.” (18)

To Behn, this was taken as a request they didn’t officially enter into any report, but orally passed along (over the radio) to other agents,

such as Blaine and Hill, which resulted in the agents being ordered off the bumper of the presidential limo for the Dallas motorcade from

Love Field to Dealey Plaza. The order given and the result being a dead president.

Michael,

What is the point of posting that snippet from Bill's review?

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Michael,

What is the point of posting that snippet from Bill's review?

Joe, there seemed to be some confusion over names; Blaine and Behn, "Blane and Bane." (sic)

I thought maybe reading Bill Kelly's review might clear it up. I guess I was wrong.

I probably should have left it to Bill Kelly to do that.

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Michael,

What is the point of posting that snippet from Bill's review?

Joe, there seemed to be some confusion over names; Blaine and Behn, "Blane and Bane." (sic)

I thought maybe reading Bill Kelly's review might clear it up. I guess I was wrong.

I probably should have left it to Bill Kelly to do that.

Yes. Well, Kelly misspelled Blaine as Blane. Then I did too with Bane. It's Gerald Blaine and its page 357 of "The Kennedy Detail," where he talks about his box of

1963 SS records he has.

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