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Harvey and Lee


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Yes. It's simple. "Harvey and Lee" is 100% BS. It accepts every story of Oswald now matter what, or from who and puts one set of actions by Oswald in the Lee column and one in a Harvey column. No story is ever addressed as being A.) a lie or B.) someone who was not Oswald at all. Armstrong's knowledge of the entire case is tissue thin. He accepts things that if he was an educated man he'd reject...

....Yes, there are reports of an arrest in the balcony of the Texas theatre and reports of someone being taken out the back. But, there is no reason to believe this is a second Oswald.

Don't try to sort this case out from Armstrong's book. It can't be done.

Probably not.

It seems hard to sort this case out from any perspective. .....

........................

I think Jim Root has it exactly backwards, asserting that the method chosen to protect the top level assassination conspirators was to keep the planning as simple and narrow as possible, involving the least number of people on a need to know basis.

The people I know owe the American people an actual explanation of what they knew related to the JFK Assassination, the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the half century long, officially supported cover up of those details, have a long record of conducting by intention, complicated and confusing "operations" using a counter-intuitive, but demonstrably effective strategy of confusion involving many individuals. This strategy has been so successful that there is no consensus to this day whether the high level government "operators" of the 1980's were or were not also culpable in the Assassination of JFK and the cover up.

.............................

According to the CIA/Bellin letter we find that if it would have been known that Oswald had attempted to assassinate Walker then, with the other information about Oswald that was available at the time, it could have been predicted that Oswald would kill Kennedy if given the opportunity. Rather than needing to recruit an assassin all that was needed was to direct a motorcade past where Oswald was working.

FBI Agent J P Hosty's third note provided the information about where Oswald was working. This information, without Hosty's knowledge, was made available to highest levels of US Intelligence. Perhaps the most important piece in this part of my investigation is that that note has disappeared from the files of the CIA. A note has disappeared that, if available, would show exactly eho had had access to the information that it contained. I find this to be a wonderful reason that explains, very easily, why that note has disappeared.....without having to speculate on alot of other scenarios!

Mark, I am not big on the idea of a broad based conspiracy to kill the JFK. Throughout my research I have constantly looked for, and it seems have found, explanations that seem to provide for a conspiracy that invovled very few people.....but those same people would have to have been at the very top of the heap when it comes to directing intelligence assets and having access to intelligence information.

Jim Root

Jim, please devote just a couple of hours of study of this. I avoided looking at any of it beyond what I read or heard from the news media, back then, in real time, until just the other day when comments were posted on another thread here on the subject of the credibility of one "Chip Tatum".

Focus on just this one snippet of the Iran-Contra saga, a 1988 plane crash in which we were told a man named Nir was killed, a man rumored to have recorded the dialogue of a 1986 meeting with then U.S. VP George HW Bush. Nir was supposed to testify before the inquiry convened to investigate the Iran-Contra irregularities.

I was impressed with the way, right from the initial reporting, the confusion was so skillfully injected into what could have been a thoroughly and accurately reported incident, the crash in daylight and fair weather of a small rented airplane with no more than six occupants. .....

....From the time of the crash until today, there seems no agreement on key details and relationships, exactly the outcome that it would seem would be most beneficial for Mr. Bush and a number of his 1980's associates.

I am inclined to view the roles of Oswald, Ruby, and Walker in the assassination conspiracy as a similar dark hole as this example is, an investigation of incidents that, by design, can probably lead nowhere. This example may simply be a scenario lifting the veil on what can be expected of these people if they feel they are being cornered, or feel threatened to any serious degree, for that matter.:

.......

Just consider the following, as purely speculative, because it is.

But the fact that it is a fact that two people, first and foremost Lee Oswald and someone who looked very much Lee Oswald, both left the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963, the former at 12:31, the latter at 12:40,

has a plethora of possibilities.

1. The man running down the slope into the Rambler never happened, and all who described this event are lying or mistaken. (Opinion: Highly improbable, considering a remote feed that ran on network television in California in the aftermath of the assassination captured this on film, and was viewed by Doris and Nell Crane, where if it still exists, is in a vault belonging to CBS).

See FBI/JFK ASSASSINATION FILE (62-109060)

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=62326&relPageId=3

The event did happen, which leads to one of the most enduring questions regarding the

entire assassination. Who was it?

The fact that there is one person in Dallas, who ostensibly fit the bill, has been described

by Dick Russell as John Thomas Masen.

And the idea that the "person" above was Masen, has more than some illuminating elements to it.

To get the full impact one has to read pages 122-124of On The Trail of The JFK Assassins....

but here is a fairly compelling passage....Russell wrote..."Strangely the government reports on Masen don't overlap.

The FBI was seemingly interested in finding the source of ammunition for Oswald's 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano rifle. The Secret Service was curious about Masen's anti-Castro associates. The Warren Commission privately noted his connection with the Minutemen, but published nothing about him. Putting all this information together, a pattern emerges. [ATF] Ellsworth's Oswald look-alike was arrested shortly before the assassination; so was Masen. Ellsworth's look-alike had Minutemen connections, traveled in Mexico and had been nabbed on a firearms charge; so had Masen;

If Masen was not the Oswald double, he must have had a pretty good idea who was."

Masen's Gun Shop 7402 Harry Hines ME1-4253

more

John Thomas Masen - A Picture At Last - Mark Bridger

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=389572

When Bridger worked on his article Masen was 64 years old, today he would probably be about 71 or 72.

The Mendoza brothers were ostensibly connected to Masen and there are a few tidbits in Bridger's article that

are rather thought provoking. If I had to guess on the identity of the other Oswald, it would be Masen.

When the Dallas Morning News got around to an article about Masen, it was

October 8, 1964.....Seems like a long time for Judge Thomas Whitfield Davidson to render a decision, I also believe his name, "Davidson" has popped up on the Forum before....

Dallas Morning News; page 5; Date: 10-08-1964;

Fine, Jail Term Assessed Man in Sale of Weapon;

“failed to record the sale of a German surplus sub-machine gun”

The government's prosecutor was Robert Ward.

Heck, if I am right which has certainly not been established, it seems he could have even been blackmailed into doing the running man routine on 11/22, as it was he lost his license to sell firearms.

Edited by Robert Howard
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Yes. It's simple. "Harvey and Lee" is 100% BS. It accepts every story of Oswald now matter what, or from who and puts one set of actions by Oswald in the Lee column and one in a Harvey column. No story is ever addressed as being A.) a lie or B.) someone who was not Oswald at all. Armstrong's knowledge of the entire case is tissue thin. He accepts things that if he was an educated man he'd reject...

....Yes, there are reports of an arrest in the balcony of the Texas theatre and reports of someone being taken out the back. But, there is no reason to believe this is a second Oswald.

Don't try to sort this case out from Armstrong's book. It can't be done.

Probably not.

It seems hard to sort this case out from any perspective. .....

........................

I think Jim Root has it exactly backwards, asserting that the method chosen to protect the top level assassination conspirators was to keep the planning as simple and narrow as possible, involving the least number of people on a need to know basis.

The people I know owe the American people an actual explanation of what they knew related to the JFK Assassination, the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the half century long, officially supported cover up of those details, have a long record of conducting by intention, complicated and confusing "operations" using a counter-intuitive, but demonstrably effective strategy of confusion involving many individuals. This strategy has been so successful that there is no consensus to this day whether the high level government "operators" of the 1980's were or were not also culpable in the Assassination of JFK and the cover up.

.............................

According to the CIA/Bellin letter we find that if it would have been known that Oswald had attempted to assassinate Walker then, with the other information about Oswald that was available at the time, it could have been predicted that Oswald would kill Kennedy if given the opportunity. Rather than needing to recruit an assassin all that was needed was to direct a motorcade past where Oswald was working.

FBI Agent J P Hosty's third note provided the information about where Oswald was working. This information, without Hosty's knowledge, was made available to highest levels of US Intelligence. Perhaps the most important piece in this part of my investigation is that that note has disappeared from the files of the CIA. A note has disappeared that, if available, would show exactly eho had had access to the information that it contained. I find this to be a wonderful reason that explains, very easily, why that note has disappeared.....without having to speculate on alot of other scenarios!

Mark, I am not big on the idea of a broad based conspiracy to kill the JFK. Throughout my research I have constantly looked for, and it seems have found, explanations that seem to provide for a conspiracy that invovled very few people.....but those same people would have to have been at the very top of the heap when it comes to directing intelligence assets and having access to intelligence information.

Jim Root

Jim, please devote just a couple of hours of study of this. I avoided looking at any of it beyond what I read or heard from the news media, back then, in real time, until just the other day when comments were posted on another thread here on the subject of the credibility of one "Chip Tatum".

Focus on just this one snippet of the Iran-Contra saga, a 1988 plane crash in which we were told a man named Nir was killed, a man rumored to have recorded the dialogue of a 1986 meeting with then U.S. VP George HW Bush. Nir was supposed to testify before the inquiry convened to investigate the Iran-Contra irregularities.

I was impressed with the way, right from the initial reporting, the confusion was so skillfully injected into what could have been a thoroughly and accurately reported incident, the crash in daylight and fair weather of a small rented airplane with no more than six occupants. .....

....From the time of the crash until today, there seems no agreement on key details and relationships, exactly the outcome that it would seem would be most beneficial for Mr. Bush and a number of his 1980's associates.

I am inclined to view the roles of Oswald, Ruby, and Walker in the assassination conspiracy as a similar dark hole as this example is, an investigation of incidents that, by design, can probably lead nowhere. This example may simply be a scenario lifting the veil on what can be expected of these people if they feel they are being cornered, or feel threatened to any serious degree, for that matter.:

.......

Why are Tom Scully's posts as big as a billboard? Why do you have a photo of yourself that looks like you're one of the Dukes of Hazard? Why are your interests the size of several volumes of an encyclopedia? And if that wasn't enough why do you have a large pointless photo of cops at the bottom of your posts? Can one apply to be an editor of a moderator?

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Guest Tom Scully

NYPD is the biggest paramiltary agency in the country, Joe. I'm impressed enough by

the fact that it is unaccountable, to highlight the "problem". BTW, I don't change my sig when I leave here and post in Politcal Conspriacies, for example.

Brad Lander, Jumaane Williams to Ray Kelly: NYPD Must Have Oversight

Village Voice (blog) - Mar 15, 2012

But Kelly couldn't really say. Lander and Williams, along with other council members, want to know exactly what happens to the cops' cash.

Activists decry NYPD monitoring of liberal groups

Wall Street Journal - 4 days ago

You are not the head of the CIA," Ahmed said of Kelly. "You are accountable to the people of New York." The NYPD's Intelligence Division has been the ...

Whatever....

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/29/cops_mock_poor_people_calls_prosecu.php#photo-1

As 16 NYPD officers were arraigned at a Bronx courthouse yesterday to face charges related to the department's massive ticket-fixing probe, around 500 off-duty police officers, including paralyzed NYPD officer Steven McDonald, showed up to voice their support for "professional privilege." According to the Times, the officers shoved away television cameras and jeered at people receiving public assistance at a benefits center across the street. According to the Daily News, some of those assembled shouted "you _________!" at prosecutors. ....

Indictments Reveal Police Procedures for Ticket-Fixing - NYTimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/nyregion/in-ticket-fixing-scandal-16-officers-to-be-charged.html

Oct 28, 2011 – Unsealed Indictments Shed Light on Procedures for Ticket-Fixing by Officers ... Outside Central Booking and Criminal Court in the Bronx early Friday ... Prosecutors said the inquiry involved monitoring 10000 phone calls, .

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-15/news/31198658_1_ticket-fixing-scandal-bronx-prosecutor-officer-jose-ramos

Cop at center of police ticket-fixing scandal gets new?lawyer with checkered past?

KEVIN DEUTSCH

Thursday, March 15, 2012

The cop at the center of the police ticket-fixing scandal has a new lawyer with her own checkered history.

After butting heads with his previous attorney, Officer Jose Ramos retained Dawn Florio, a former Bronx prosecutor fired in 2000 after Queens prosecutors investigated allegations that she abused her position to help her ex-con former boyfriend.....

Records from Florio's arrest have been sealed - and the case's outcome was not immediately clear.

Florio, a niece of Appellate Court Judge Anita Florio, was on track for a judgeship herself before the 2000 incident, sources said.

Now she is repping Ramos, a 40th Precinct officer facing 26 criminal counts - including attempted robbery and transporting heroin.

He was one of 16 cops indicted in the ticket-fixing scandal that rocked the NYPD last year.

Florio took over the case from lawyer John Sandleitner, who Ramos accused of "abandoning" him while he languished on Rikers Island.

The cop is currently being held on $500,000 bail.

Prosecutors have already turned over reams of evidence to Florio, including a hard drive full of videos, photographs and recordings of wiretapped phone calls that prosecutors say implicate Ramos.

The district attorney's office has offered Ramos a plea deal calling for 18 years in prison, but Florio said he has no plans to take the offer.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/01/ap-cia-pulling-agent-who-helped-nypd-spy-on-muslims/1#.T3j8tFm_PAs

Jan 26, 2012

AP: CIA pulling agent who helped NYPD spy on Muslims

....The review resulted from AP articles that "revealed how the NYPD, working in close collaboration with the CIA, set up spying operations that put Muslim communities under scrutiny. Plainclothes officers known as 'rakers' eavesdropped in businesses, and Muslims not suspected of any wrongdoing were put in intelligence databases," AP writes.

The CIA's top lawyer never approved sending a veteran agency officer to New York.

Muslim activists today urged Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly to resign, saying the unprecedented CIA/NYPD collaboration recalled the FBI's COINTELPRO, which spied on political and activist groups in the 1960s and 1970s.....

Edited by Tom Scully
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I'm going to have to pull the book out tomorrow, but in Talbot's Brothers book, he dedicates around 15 pages to a man who was on a military plane that parked in Dallas on the way to the West right around the time JFK was killed. The man says the plane was not supposed to stop in Dallas but did, and it let on 2 men, one that looked exactly like LHO (as he found out later). Can someone elaborate more on this story? I'll try to find it tomorrow in the book, but reading this thread that rekindled my memory about the subject.

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