Impossible: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald

[Chris Newton]

And I'm not talking silencers which, on rifles in 1963, were r4eally supression devices, not silencing ones...

For the record, the Werbell designed rifles were called 'directionally silenced rifles." They were muffled in such a way that they would confuse the listener, depending on where he was, about the direction from which the shot came.

I agree with sentiment of both these posts above and also believe that any debate about how many shots one person or another "heard" doesn't prove a thing and just leads you down the primrose path that the conspirators would like you to travel. It impossible to imagine one untrained sniper with a bolt action rifle being responsible for all the shots and the damage caused.

"Mr. SPECTER. Now, in your prior testimony you described a flurry of shells into the car. How many shots did you hear after the first noise which you described as sounding like a firecracker?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, these shells came in all together."

Here's your probable Knoll weapon (IMHO): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine

For the record, as stated in the article linked above, the noise the bolt made chambering a round was louder than noise made while firing.

The weapon had been used by US, British and French special forces and specifically used by the OSS for assassinations.

[Barry Krusch]

Norman was as compromised as Givens. He wasn’t officially interviewed until the beginning of December and is on record, when testifying to the HSCA, that the statements containing his signature from the 26^th of November are not his.

Wow. Lee, could you give the cite to that info? I can't seem to locate it. In fact, Norman is not even listed in the index of people who testified to the HSCA. You must have him confused with someone else.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Barry Krusch

[Barry Krusch]

Norman was as compromised as Givens. He wasn't officially interviewed until the beginning of December and is on record, when testifying to the HSCA, that the statements containing his signature from the 26^th of November are not his.

Wow. Lee, could you give the cite to that info? I can't seem to locate it. In fact, Norman is not even listed in the index of people who testified to the HSCA. You must have him confused with someone else.

Hi Barry,

There are many interviews by the HSCA that are still not released in full. I'm very interested in seeing the dozens of pages of testimony given to them by William Lowery that is still withheld.

I can assure you that Norman was interviewed by investigators of the HSCA, as was James Jarman. In fact, it is James Jarman's HSCA testimony that throws a spanner in the works concerning Bonnie Ray Williams chicken dinner on the sixth floor story.

Please read through pages 13 through 17 of the following link that has several pages of Norman's HSCA recorded testimony.

Cheers

Lee

http://digitalcollec.../0/title/Page 1

I stand corrected Lee. This is absolutely dynamite. A fantastic find, thanks!

[Karl Kinaski]

edit

Edited May 11, 2012 by Karl Kinaski

[Barry Krusch]

That whole story about the three shells dropping, that was exposed by Patricia Lambert before she went off the deep end.

But this is really good also, since it essentially says that FBI made up testimony.

BTW Lee, is this is Armstrong's book?

And Barry, the thing you were talking about on Len's show, the two packages of bullets at the DPD, one with two and one with three, where is that in John's book precisely?

That is in my book, Jim. Chapter 9.

[David Josephs]

Norman was as compromised as Givens. He wasn't officially interviewed until the beginning of December and is on record, when testifying to the HSCA, that the statements containing his signature from the 26^th of November are not his.

Wow. Lee, could you give the cite to that info? I can't seem to locate it. In fact, Norman is not even listed in the index of people who testified to the HSCA. You must have him confused with someone else.

Hi Barry,

There are many interviews by the HSCA that are still not released in full. I'm very interested in seeing the dozens of pages of testimony given to them by William Lowery that is still withheld.

I can assure you that Norman was interviewed by investigators of the HSCA, as was James Jarman. In fact, it is James Jarman's HSCA testimony that throws a spanner in the works concerning Bonnie Ray Williams chicken dinner on the sixth floor story.

Please read through pages 13 through 17 of the following link that has several pages of Norman's HSCA recorded testimony.

Cheers

Lee

http://digitalcollec.../0/title/Page 1

I stand corrected Lee. This is absolutely dynamite. A fantastic find, thanks!

Not trying to be a buzz kill... but the testimony linked to is the WCR testimony...NOT the HSCA of Norman...

Is there a llink to his HSCA testimony?

DJ

[David Josephs]

My bad buddy... saw it change to Jarman...

thanks... and welcome back to the fray... always enjoyed reading your posts

DJ

[Pat Speer]

Since no one else seems to know about this, let me jump in and give Greg Parker some props. On his website, he has the full transcripts to the HSCA interviews of Jarman and Norman, among others. He got them from researcher Richard Gilbride, and has had them up there for several years now. The most significant thing in there, IMO, is in Jarman's testimony. He told the HSCA HE'D sent Oswald upstairs shortly before lunch to correct a mistake, and that he saw Oswald come back down afterwards. This completely destroys the common LN assertion that Oswald was only pretending to work upstairs before lunch, and never came down.

Anyhow, have fun:

http://www.reopenken...collection.html

Edited May 10, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Barry Krusch]

Since no one else seems to know about this, let me jump in and give Greg Parker some props. On his website, he has the full transcripts to the HSCA interviews of Jarman and Norman, among others. He got them from researcher Richard Gilbride, and has had them up there for several years now. The most significant thing in there, IMO, is in Jarman's testimony. He told the HSCA HE'D sent Oswald upstairs shortly before lunch to correct a mistake, and that he saw Oswald come back down afterwards. This completely destroys the common LN assertion that Oswald was only pretending to work upstairs before lunch, and never came down.

Anyhow, have fun:

http://www.reopenken...collection.html

Fantastic. Is there no end to the madness?

[Michael Hogan]

See, the FBI, Secret Service and DPD altered, falsified, and eliminated so much of the early evidence that it took literally decades, and the ARRB act to even begin to sort things out. But here we are, 49 years later trying to figure out who actually said what when.

Now any objective person would have to admit, that when there is this much deliberate obfuscation and interference and outright falsification, then the official story had to be made up. Or else why do all this crap?

Jim is exactly right. That's it in a nutshell.

Salandria said:

"As I examined the evidence I was confronted with an unvarying pattern. Whenever evidence of a conspiracy emerged --- and mountains of facts were supplied by the government for us to scrutinize --- the government refused to act on that evidence. On the other hand, whenever any data emerged, no matter how thoroughly incredible, which could possibly be interpreted as supporting a lone assassin theory --- the government invariably and with the greatest solemnity declared that such data proved the correctness of the lone assassin myth. That is not the earmark of an innocent, blundering government.

I posited that an innocent civilian government would have in an unbiased fashion accepted, made public, and protected all of the assassination data. An innocent government would have fairly evaluated the data irrespective of whether or not they supported a particular conclusion. An innocent civilian government would never have accepted an improbable explanation of data while other probable explanations were extant.

I concluded that only a criminally guilty government which was beholden to the killers would reject a probable explanation of the evidence coming into its possession and instead would seize upon an improbable explanation for the evidence. Most importantly, I concluded that only a guilty government seeking to serve the interests of the assassins would consistently resort to accepting one improbable conclusion after another while rejecting a long series of probable conclusions. In short, while purporting to tell the truth, our government turned probability theory on its head. In an unvarying pattern it consistently accepted any data that even remotely supported a single-assassin concept and rejected data which incontrovertibly supported a conspiracy."

[David Von Pein]

Jarman...told the HSCA HE'D sent Oswald upstairs shortly before lunch to correct a mistake, and that he saw Oswald come back down afterwards. This completely destroys the common LN assertion that Oswald was only pretending to work upstairs before lunch, and never came down.

This really isn't a bombshell revelation regarding James Jarman at all, because Jarman essentially told the Warren Commission the same thing in 1964 (except he didn't say anything about sending Oswald upstairs to correct a book order "shortly before lunch"):

Mr. BALL - Did you talk to Oswald that morning?

Mr. JARMAN - I did.

Mr. BALL - When?

Mr. JARMAN - I had him to correct an order. I don't know exactly what time it was.

Mr. BALL - Oh, approximately. Nine, ten?

Mr. JARMAN - It was around, it was between eight and nine, I would say.

Mr. BALL - Between 8 and 9?

Mr. JARMAN - Between 5 minutes after 8 and 9.

Mr. BALL - You had him correct an order?

Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.

http://mcadams.posc....russ/jarman.htm

But even if Jarman did send Oswald back upstairs to correct an order "shortly before lunch" (in addition to having him correct a different order between 8 and 9 AM, as he told the WC), that doesn't prove much of anything, and certainly doesn't negate any of the evidence that indicates Oswald was on an upper floor of the TSBD shortly before noon.

Oswald might have been sent upstairs to correct a dozen orders "shortly before lunch". But so what? All of the times that witnesses gave for certain events (like when they saw Oswald, etc.) are only estimates and are very loose and approximated timelines. There's no fixed times for these things and everybody knows it.

Oswald could still have had plenty of time to correct a few orders upstairs "shortly before lunch", then come back downstairs, and then go back upstairs again....all within just a very few minutes. He did it all the time, every day. That was his job--to go upstairs and then come back downstairs again--repeatedly.

Edited May 11, 2012 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

For some silly reason, DiEugenio (the leader of the "Anybody But Oswald" pack around these parts) thinks that it would have been unusual (and totally impossible) for Lee Harvey Oswald to have gone up and down from the first floor to the sixth floor a few times on 11/22/63.

Why was that type of up and down activity unusual for Oswald on Nov. 22nd, Jimbo? You never did say.

Edited May 11, 2012 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

JIM DiEUGENIO SAID:

There are now so many questions about these three [Williams, Jarman, and Norman] that people wonder just what the heck they were doing and where they actually were at the time of the shooting.

DVP SAYS:

Incredible.

Jimbo actually wonders WHERE Harold Norman, James Jarman, and Bonnie Ray Williams were "at the time of the shooting"??

Even with Tom Dillard's photos staring him in the face, DiEugenio still can't quite figure out WHERE those three guys were located "at the time of the shooting".

Are Norman, Williams, and Jarman being impersonated by imposters in these pictures, Jim?....

Jim, you're hilarious.

Footnote -- Jimbo gave us this bladder-buster earlier:

"I actually am beginning to think those [Dillard] photos were reenactments."

Great! More fake stuff!

DiEugenio wants Jarman, Norman, & Williams to be somewhere other than the fifth floor at 12:30 PM, so what does Jimbo do (even with the above Dillard pictures staring back at him) -- Jimbo will pretend that the Dillard pictures are "re-enactment" photos. Lovely.

As we can all easily see, for conspiracy theorists like DiEugenio, it doesn't matter how much stuff has to be deemed "fake" and "phony" in order to avoid the obvious conclusion of Lee Oswald's guilt. However much NEEDS to be fake and phony, IS fake and phony (per the conspiracy clowns).

Take Fetzer's latest "fake" revelation -- he thinks Lovelady was inserted into the news film showing Oswald being taken into the DPD.

There is NO END to the fakery in the JFK case (if you're a fringe CTer--like DiEugenio and Fetzer).

You guys are truly hysterical.

Edited May 11, 2012 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

I agree, David, that it's possible Oswald made multiple trips up and down the stairs, or even in the elevators, in the 11:00 to 12:00 hour. But will you agree that Oswald was WORKING on 11-22-63, and not hiding out on the fifth and sixth floors pretending to work, as claimed by some LNs, who think Oswald's being on the upper floors the bulk of the morning of 11-22 a necessary part of the plot?

Edited May 11, 2012 by Pat Speer

[Barry Krusch]

DVP refuses to take the JFK Challenge, so I wouldn't rely on anything he reports.