If Oswald Was an Intelligence Agent of Some Sort, How Was He Manipulated Into Being a Patsy?

[David Von Pein]

I'm curious...as to how Oswald remaining inside the TSBD during the assassination can be reconciled with an intelligence assignment, outside of being told he was infiltrating a potential plot to kill the president?

How would his handlers have kept him away from the windows, if not the outside with the rest of the crowd, while someone he admired so much was driving by? How could they have associated anything to do with Cuba, or guns, with Oswald not being allowed to watch his idol, during perhaps the only chance he would ever have to see him in person?

The key here is how he was controlled that day. Their patsy could not show up conspicuously in any films taken during the shooting, or interact with any witnesses at the moment of the assassination. How did they stop this from happening? We must factor in the fact the motorcade was running behind schedule, too, which would have potentially altered his instructions.

I think it's important to question why Oswald remained in the building.

Don,

Why not just accept the obvious fact that Oswald killed Kennedy?

The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many conspiracy theorists fight the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

The only possible way to make Oswald an "innocent patsy" is to either totally ignore the evidence against him (for two murders, not just one)...or for the CTers to fall back on the lame claim of "All the evidence is fake". Because the only way that Oswald can be innocent of killing both JFK & Tippit is for all of the evidence to be manufactured. And just exactly how likely is that (even in a CTer dream world)?

Edited June 7, 2012 by David Von Pein

[Thomas Graves]

Larry,

As always, I respect your input. I'm curious, though, as to how Oswald remaining inside the TSBD during the assassination can be reconciled with an intelligence assignment, outside of being told he was infiltrating a potential plot to kill the president?

How would his handlers have kept him away from the windows, if not the outside with the rest of the crowd, while someone he admired so much was driving by? How could they have associated anything to do with Cuba, or guns, with Oswald not being allowed to watch his idol, during perhaps the only chance he would ever have to see him in person?

The key here is how he was controlled that day. Their patsy could not show up conspicuously in any films taken during the shooting, or interact with any witnesses at the moment of the assassination. How did they stop this from happening? We must factor in the fact the motorcade was running behind schedule, too, which would have potentially altered his instructions.

I think it's important to question why Oswald remained in the building.

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

[Don Jeffries]

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

[Greg Parker]

Greg, I have gone though one batch of 112rh files and as you are likely aware Col Jones (who was actually not the operations officer for the 112th but rather G2, a position calling for lots of report reading) stated when interviewed that his message of November 22 relating Oswald to the Hidell name was based in 112th Oswald file documents which had been received from the its Regional office in New Orleans. The file included material from Oswald's leafleting at the WASP as well as local agent reports. I'm going to check my Lancer CD on the 112th to see if those documents are included there, they are not in my paper files - but I sent all the major documents to Lancer for production onto the CD.

It seems to me that Col. Jones based his communications of Nov. 22 simply on seeing both names in the Oswald file.

Now comes the embarrassing part, I have a distinct memory of seeing at least one memo from New Orleans where there is speculation as to whether or not Oswald and Hidell might be one and the same person, basically as a ploy (perhaps not strictly an alias). When I read it I recall thinking that somebody in NO was on the money, although it was more speculation than a firm conclusion. Unfortunately that's only a memory, its not something I wrote about and hence nothing I would have filed away in paper, simply a memory. Possibly some of the NO specialists like Jim or Joan might recall it - or perhaps its just a faulty memory of mine.

So, I won't actually dish up the crow for myself quite yet, but I'm getting the ketchup ready... Larry

Larry,

here's the relevant part of Jones' testimony (there is possibly more if I had time to go through it)

Mr Dodd: I am curious on one point. You again, responding to Counsel's questions initially, you mentioned you had a file on Hidell, A.J.

Mr Jones: Yes, sir.

Mr Dodd: Aka Oswald. I am curious if you can tell us, tell the Committee how it was that you did not have two files, given the fact that this seemed to be information pointing to two individuals.

Mr Jones: We do not, or we did not, I should clarify that, keep two files on an alias. We would have two cards but one file. And in the cross reference, the Hidell card would refer to the Oswald card, and there we would look at the Oswald card and file and pull the Oswald file.

Mr Dodd: How did you establish it was an alias?

Mr Jones: Because we had him listed -- I do not know what you have available here. There is a piece of paper, the literature he was passing out that had his name at the bottom of it as A.J. Hidell and he was arrested as Lee Harvey Oswald.

So what we end up with is very circular logic.

Hidell was an alias because that name was on the bottom of literature he passed out, and the name was on the bottom of the literature because it was his alias.

Jones also claims he (Oswald) was arrested in NO under his real name and not the name at the bottom of the flyers as one more proof. The trouble is Oswald is said to have told the NOPD that Hidell was someone who contacted him about FPCC meetings - a separate person just as indicated by Dodd, and there is nothing to indicate the veracity of the claim was ever questioned or checked at the time of the arrest.

This is why I'm keen to know if this document speculating that Hidell was an alias actually exists. Without it, there is NO reason in the world for Jones or any underlings to assume - let alone believe Hidell was anything other than what Oswald allegedly said.

But even if such a document existed - would they create an alias cross-reference based on speculation?

The bottom line - this testimony is one reason why I am suspicious of Military intel in this whole thing. The "Hidell as alias" story seems to originate with them.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Greg Parker

[Mark Wengler]

In some ways it is very easy to do. His handler could have said Lee i want you to go here and wait for a message and then leave.

Or Lee i need you to go here and pickup a package and take it to this address.

By doing so they would had Lee in these places to look guilty and he would had no idea wat really was going on.

[Paul Trejo]

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it.

Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later.

If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere.

I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart.

So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory).

THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 9, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[David Josephs]

The possibility also remains that those "in the know" would not be concerned even if Lee had run out into the street and hit JFK with a bat....

the EVIDENCE was not going to show him visible in DP, the witnesses would all be "wrong" ala the GK...

I really do not think we grasp the magnitude of arrogance related to whatever "evidence" was to be gathered that day.....

Think about it... they REMOVED a 2 second stopping of the limo during the headshots...

Evidence of more than a couple shots

the FACT that men showed fake SS credentials in DP immediately afterward....

Wouldn't you suppose that whoever was using Oswald would use these "weaknesses" to their advantage... talker, arrogant, disrupter, etc....

and NOT be worried about the evidence....

DJ

Edited June 9, 2012 by David Josephs

[Paul Trejo]

The Cuban people are not stupid. How could any reasonable person think that with a history like Oswalds he would get in to Cuba. So Oswald is stupid.?

Does anyone have an opinion of what Oswald himself wrote about the MinuteMen. If anyone has read it, Isn't that enough of a hook for people wanting to use him?

John, I think that Oswald was naive in many ways. Let's review the Warren Commission testimony of George De Mohrenschildt on this. Yes, I am aware that George De Mohrenschildt himself had secrets to hide, i.e. being an agent for Nazi collaborators, and urging Lee Harvey Oswald to shoot at General Walker. George had secrets and withheld vital information from the Warren Commission. But on other topics, IMHO, he was happy to be candid and forthcoming. Here's George's opinion of the intelligence potential of Lee Harvey Oswald:

---------------- Warren Commission Hearings of 23 April 1964: -------------------

Mr. JENNER. Did there go through your mind speculations as to whether Oswald was an agent of anybody?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No.

Mr. JENNER. Why? Before I put it that way – when you say “No,” am I correct in assuming that you thought about the subject and you concluded he was not an agent of anybody? Is that what you meant?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never thought even about it. I will tell you why I thought he never was – because he was too outspoken. He was too outspoken in his ideas and his attitudes. If he were really – if he were an agent, I thought he would have kept quiet. This would be my idea.

Mr. JENNER. You say he was outspoken. What do you base that on?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. For instance, he showed me his – he discussed very freely with me, when he showed me his little memoirs...Those memoirs I think are very sincere. They explain more or less the sincere attitude of a man, sincere opinion of a man...I did not take him seriously – that is all.

Mr. JENNER. I know you didn’t. Why didn’t you? ...You are a highly sophisticated person.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, he was not sophisticated, you see. He was a semi-educated hillbilly. And you cannot take such a person seriously. All his opinions were crude, you see. But I thought at the time he was rather sincere.

Mr. JENNER. Opinion sincerely held, but crude?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. He was relatively uneducated.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Oh, yes.

Mr. JENNER. Quite, as a matter of fact – he never finished high school.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; I did not even know that.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have the feeling that his views on politics were shallow and surface?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Very much so.

Mr. JENNER. That he had not had the opportunity for a study under scholars who would criticize, so that he himself could form some views on the subject?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Exactly. His mind was of a man with exceedingly poor background, who read rather advanced books, and did not understand even the words in them. He read complicated economical treatises and just picked up difficult words out of what he has read, and loved to display them. He loved to use the difficult words, because it was to impress one.

Mr. JENNER. Did you think he understood it?

Mr. DE MOHRESSCHILDT. He did not understand the words – he just used them. So how can you take seriously a person like that? You just laugh at him. But there was always an element of pity I had, and my wife had, for him. We realized that he was sort of a forlorn individual, groping for something.

Mr. JENNER. Did you form any impression in the area. let us say, of reliability – that is, whether our Government would entrust him with something that required a high degree of intelligence. a high degree of imagination. a high degree of ability to retain his equilibrium under pressure, a management of a situation, to be flexible enough?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never would believe that any government would be stupid enough to trust Lee with anything important.

Mr. JENNER. Give me the basis of your opinion.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well. again, as I said, an unstable individual, mixed – up individual, uneducated individual, without background. What government would give him any confidential work? No government would. Even the government of Ghana would not give him any job of any type.

Mr. JENNER. You used the expression “unstable.” Would you elaborate on that?

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, instability – his life is an example of his instability. He switched allegiance from one country to another, and then back again, disappointed in this, disappointed in that, tried various jobs. But he did it, you see, without the enjoyment of adventure – like some other people would do in the United States, a new job is a new adventure, new opportunities. For him it was a gruesome deal. He hated his jobs. He switched all the time.

Mr. JENNER. Now, let’s assume he switched jobs because he was discharged from those jobs. Does that affect your opinion? That is, assume now for the purpose of discussion that he lost every one of his jobs.

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Well, frankly, if I – you always base your opinion on your own experience. If I had my own country since my childbirth, and my government, I would remain faithful to it for the rest of my life. He had a chance to be a Marine. Here was a perfect life for him – this was my point of view. He was a man without education, in the Marines – why didn’t he stay in the Marines all his life? You don’t need a high degree of intelligence to be a Marine corporal or a soldier.

Mr. JENNER. That is, it was your thought –

Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That was my idea.

---------------------------- END OF WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY -----------------

It seems to me that Lee Harvey Oswald was complicated -- he was ambitious and had enough intelligence to teach himself Russian, but he was also hot-tempered and proud, and was not a consistent team player. So, the ONI, the CIA and the FBI would consider him for their agencies, but after testing him with a few contracts, they soon learned that Oswald was unreliable and arrogant and hard to work with.

Oswald, frustrated with this treatment, would snoop around the underground for his own benefit. Shooting at General Walker was a major foul-up in Oswald's strategy. He did this, IMHO, to impress George De Mohrenschildt, Volkmar Schmidt, Michael Paine and others in their circle. It was a major miscalculation.

However (according to Ron Lewis, 1992) when Lee Harvey Oswald bragged to two Minutemen (namely, Guy Banister and David Ferrie) that he was the one to take a pot-shot at General Edwin Walker on 10 April 1963, he soon realized he made the blunder of his life. They seized him and made it clear that he now belonged to them and Oswald would now do anything they told him to do.

The Minutemen group was organized as a paramilitary organization, and military experience was preferred. Military rank was respected and promoted amongst the Minutemen. The FBI, ONI and CIA would have next to zero visibility into their daily operations.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 9, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it.

Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later.

If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere.

I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart.

So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory).

THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.)

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
<edit typos>

Paul,

I think LHO was duped into thinking he was monitoring gun running activities at the TSBD, and therefore was inside said building during the motorcade's passing through Dealey Plaza in order to make and/or place a phone call in accordance with that "mission".

Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there as well.) Maybe I'm naive, but maybe something was going down during JFK's visit to Dallas, or at least LHO was led to think so. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down then and there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie.

Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI).

--Tommy Edited May 7, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[William Kelly]

I'm curious...as to how Oswald remaining inside the TSBD during the assassination can be reconciled with an intelligence assignment, outside of being told he was infiltrating a potential plot to kill the president?

How would his handlers have kept him away from the windows, if not the outside with the rest of the crowd, while someone he admired so much was driving by? How could they have associated anything to do with Cuba, or guns, with Oswald not being allowed to watch his idol, during perhaps the only chance he would ever have to see him in person?

The key here is how he was controlled that day. Their patsy could not show up conspicuously in any films taken during the shooting, or interact with any witnesses at the moment of the assassination. How did they stop this from happening? We must factor in the fact the motorcade was running behind schedule, too, which would have potentially altered his instructions.

I think it's important to question why Oswald remained in the building.

Don,

Why not just accept the obvious fact that Oswald killed Kennedy?

The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many conspiracy theorists fight the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

The only possible way to make Oswald an "innocent patsy" is to either totally ignore the evidence against him (for two murders, not just one)...or for the CTers to fall back on the lame claim of "All the evidence is fake". Because the only way that Oswald can be innocent of killing both JFK & Tippit is for all of the evidence to be manufactured. And just exactly how likely is that (even in a CTer dream world)?

If Oswald had anything to do with the assassination, whether as a patsy, sniper, or killing Tippit, then because of his operational background as an intelligence operative, in USSR, New Orleans, Mexico City and Dallas, then whatever you believe happened at Dealey Plaza was a covert intelligence operation and not the result of The Lone DeRanger.

BK

JFKcountercoup

[Paul Trejo]

If Oswald had anything to do with the assassination, whether as a patsy, sniper, or killing Tippit, then because of his operational background as an intelligence operative, in USSR, New Orleans, Mexico City and Dallas, then whatever you believe happened at Dealey Plaza was a covert intelligence operation and not the result of The Lone DeRanger.

BK

JFKcountercoup

William, I think that's a well-established point in this Forum. Even the US Government no longer promotes the old WC idea that Oswald was a lone gunman. In 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations put the lone-gunman theory to rest, and it's surprising to hear anybody raise that self-contradictory theory at this late date.

Nevertheless, for the rest of us, the question that remains is about the precise character of the covert intelligence operation in question. Was it primarily an FBI plan? A CIA plan? ONI? Secret Service? An Army intelligence plan?

It is increasingly difficult for me to imagine that the CIA had enough players in enough positions to carry out a cover-up so enormous. The FBI did its part in covering up, but I doubt that it had enough powers beyond law enforcement. The Secret Service had a lot of responsibility in this cover-up, but like the CIA, did not have power over enough people all over the US bureaucracy to control an operation of this magnitude.

In my personal opinion, only a covert intelligence operation controlled by rogue elements in the US military could have planned, carried out and covered up something so enormous. A rogue, ex-military person, somebody like Oswald but far more powerful and effective, with decades of military experience, with a sterling reputation, with tight friends in very high places -- somebody who lived in Dallas and especially somebody who was cold and calculating when the chips were down -- this is the only kind of person who could have personally coordinated every aspect of the Dallas ground-crew (the most critical part of the JFK assassination).

The Dallas part of the operation was the most critical. Plots failed in Florida. Plots failed in Mexico. Plots failed in Chicago. Those plots did not have brilliant military minds planning and controlling every detail with the life-and-death loyalty of their men at their sides.

The Dallas planner was able to transform Oswald -- a low-level agent and a loose-cannon trainee -- into the patsy. The Dallas planner was able to change the Presidential motorcade route. The Dallas planner was able to place the patsy in the right place at the right time. The Dallas planner was able to manipulate the patsy to bring his rifle to the kill-zone -- unwary of the facts at hand. The Dallas planner was able to recruit covert members of the Dallas Police Department.

The Dallas planner did not need to be on site for the day of the crime. He could be far away. I believe I know who the Dallas planner truly was.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it.

Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later.

If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere.

I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart.

So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory).

THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Paul,

I think LHO was duped into thinking he was monitoring gun running activities at the TSBD, and was inside said building during the motorcade's passing through Dealey Plaza in order to make and/or place a phone call in accordance with that "mission".

Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there as well.) Maybe I'm naive, but maybe something was going down during the JFK's visit to Dallas, or at least LHO was led to think so. The timing would have been perfect for gun running to take place there at that time in that everyone's attention would have been focused away from the railway yards and towards the hoop-la surrounding JFK and Jackie, instead.

Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI)

http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2006/02/spiders-web-texas-school-book.html.

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited June 10, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Gene Kelly]

If Oswald had anything to do with the assassination, whether as a patsy, sniper, or killing Tippit, then because of his operational background as an intelligence operative, in USSR, New Orleans, Mexico City and Dallas, then whatever you believe happened at Dealey Plaza was a covert intelligence operation and not the result of The Lone DeRanger.

BK

JFKcountercoup

William, I think that's a well-established point in this Forum. Even the US Government no longer promotes the old WC idea that Oswald was a lone gunman. In 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations put the lone-gunman theory to rest, and it's surprising to hear anybody raise that self-contradictory theory at this late date.

Nevertheless, for the rest of us, the question that remains is about the precise character of the covert intelligence operation in question. Was it primarily an FBI plan? A CIA plan? ONI? Secret Service? An Army intelligence plan?

It is increasingly difficult for me to imagine that the CIA had enough players in enough positions to carry out a cover-up so enormous. The FBI did its part in covering up, but I doubt that it had enough powers beyond law enforcement. The Secret Service had a lot of responsibility in this cover-up, but like the CIA, did not have power over enough people all over the US bureaucracy to control an operation of this magnitude.

In my personal opinion, only a covert intelligence operation controlled by rogue elements in the US military could have planned, carried out and covered up something so enormous. A rogue, ex-military person, somebody like Oswald but far more powerful and effective, with decades of military experience, with a sterling reputation, with tight friends in very high places -- somebody who lived in Dallas and especially somebody who was cold and calculating when the chips were down -- this is the only kind of person who could have personally coordinated every aspect of the Dallas ground-crew (the most critical part of the JFK assassination).

The Dallas part of the operation was the most critical. Plots failed in Florida. Plots failed in Mexico. Plots failed in Chicago. Those plots did not have brilliant military minds planning and controlling every detail with the life-and-death loyalty of their men at their sides.

The Dallas planner was able to transform Oswald -- a low-level agent and a loose-cannon trainee -- into the patsy. The Dallas planner was able to change the Presidential motorcade route. The Dallas planner was able to place the patsy in the right place at the right time. The Dallas planner was able to manipulate the patsy to bring his rifle to the kill-zone -- unwary of the facts at hand. The Dallas planner was able to recruit covert members of the Dallas Police Department.

The Dallas planner did not need to be on site for the day of the crime. He could be far away. I believe I know who the Dallas planner truly was.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Curtis Lemay? Walker's "handler" (John J. McCloy?)

[Malcolm Ward]

Proof Lee Harvey Oswald was trained by CIA,worked for ONI.

I came across this document,shown in link provided.I don't know if its a fake or true.Or even if its been shown before.Click on document to enlarge.Anyway,enough gas,here is the link.

http://hidhist.wordpress.com/assassination/jfk/proof-lee-harvey-oswald-trained-by-cia-worked-for-oni/

[Peter McGuire]

I'm curious...as to how Oswald remaining inside the TSBD during the assassination can be reconciled with an intelligence assignment, outside of being told he was infiltrating a potential plot to kill the president?

How would his handlers have kept him away from the windows, if not the outside with the rest of the crowd, while someone he admired so much was driving by? How could they have associated anything to do with Cuba, or guns, with Oswald not being allowed to watch his idol, during perhaps the only chance he would ever have to see him in person?

The key here is how he was controlled that day. Their patsy could not show up conspicuously in any films taken during the shooting, or interact with any witnesses at the moment of the assassination. How did they stop this from happening? We must factor in the fact the motorcade was running behind schedule, too, which would have potentially altered his instructions.

I think it's important to question why Oswald remained in the building.

Don,

Why not just accept the obvious fact that Oswald killed Kennedy?

The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many conspiracy theorists fight the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

The only possible way to make Oswald an "innocent patsy" is to either totally ignore the evidence against him (for two murders, not just one)...or for the CTers to fall back on the lame claim of "All the evidence is fake". Because the only way that Oswald can be innocent of killing both JFK & Tippit is for all of the evidence to be manufactured. And just exactly how likely is that (even in a CTer dream world)?

If Oswald had anything to do with the assassination, whether as a patsy, sniper, or killing Tippit, then because of his operational background as an intelligence operative, in USSR, New Orleans, Mexico City and Dallas, then whatever you believe happened at Dealey Plaza was a covert intelligence operation and not the result of The Lone DeRanger.

BK

JFKcountercoup

Good point Bill.

The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many lone nut theorists focus soley on the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

While ignoring everything else.

Try looking at the evidence, the mountain of evidence uncovered by private researchers and see where it leads.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Peter McGuire