If Oswald Was an Intelligence Agent of Some Sort, How Was He Manipulated Into Being a Patsy?

[Guest Tom Scully]

Proof Lee Harvey Oswald was trained by CIA,worked for ONI.

I came across this document,shown in link provided.I don't know if its a fake or true.Or even if its been shown before.Click on document to enlarge.Anyway,enough gas,here is the link.

http://hidhist.wordp...worked-for-oni/

Malcolm, controversy over that "document" has been beaten to death, please let us not dredge it up on this forum? It is known as the "McCone-Rowley document" and it has been around nearly eight years (or longer):

http://mccone-rowley...owley-from.html

http://www.jfklancer...id=19036&page=4

http://mccone-rowley...09/james-l.html

September 26, 2005

....I originally received the McCone-Rowley memo from a former tabloid writer, Jim Moore, who posted the following biographical document to the internet:

http://lists.topica.com/lists/TheOmegaReport/read/message.html?mid=908277472&sort=d&start=18

There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is a real government document either.

FEDERAL AGENCY (redacted)

INVESTIGATIVE BACKGROUND REPORT

SECURITY LEVEL: SECRET TO: DDCI - Washington CC: SAIC - Nashville; SAIC - Memphis; SAIC - Los Angeles

NAME: James L. Moore

DOB: 07/02/45

PLACE OF BIRTH: Independence, MO

RACE: Caucasian

HEIGHT: 5'11"

.....Cuban Student Directorate (CIA cut-out) (1965). Information officer, according to published sources he participated in covert military operations in Cuba.

Federal Reserve Bank (Kansas City, MO) (1965-66). Duties classified.

National Features Syndicate, Chicago, IL (1966-68) CEO - Bob Sorren. Syndicated columnist and investigative reporter, received covert assistance from CIA re: matters pertaining to Cuba and Fidel Castro, worked with Israeli Embassy re: sabotage of Israeli, French and US nuclear submarines after USS Thresher. Was responsible for arrest and imprisonment of 27 organized crime figures in Chicago and New Jersey in counterfeit watch operation targeting Longines-Wittnaur Watch Co. and Hamilton; as a result, a $10,000 Chicago mob contract was let out on him, but strangely, he had some protection from yet another alleged organized crime figure whose granddaughter, Linda Morganelli, was Moore's secretary. Moore was known to be working with the Kennedy family and with New Orleans DA Jim Garrison's staff, as well as unknown law enforcement agencies in California. He was also involved in an investigation of a man convicted for second degree murder in Indiana (Randy K. Wilson) and succeeded in getting Wilson's case re-opened. He was banned from the Indiana State Prison by Governor Roger Branigan on grounds he was "impersonating an attorney" (source: AP) Branigan later apologized publicly, saying he had been misinformed, and subject was fully reinstated his prison visiting rights to meet with Wilson.

US Sen. Robert F. Kennedy (1968) - worked as unpaid volunteer until Kennedy was assassinated 6-6-68.

US Sen. Eugene McCarthy (1968) - Illinois state chairman of McCarthy's presidential campaign, filed an election lawsuit against Illinois Governor (1968) and won a belated US Supreme Court decision (Moore v. Shapiro - USC Jan. 1969). During this period, he was inducted by the Selective Service (Clay County, MO). He took the physical, but refused to take the oath of enlistment and was notified of his imminent arrest and told not to leave the city. His attorney (now unknown) apparently obtained documentary evidence that the subject was the target of an illegal conspiracy involving wiretapping and breaking-and-entering, apparently on the orders of the Missouri Selective Service Director. The Selective Service then dropped all charges and reclassified the subject as 1-D. All records have since been expunged on reasons of "national security."

Subject is also known to have been a target of MKULTRA and MK-Chaos during the 1968 presidential campaign. Attempts were made to enlist subject's support of terrorist actions (bombing of polling booths), but he refused and at the state political convention publicly exposed the actions as part of a "federal agent provacateur plot involving the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society)." After denouncing "those responsible" as "traitors to the American ideal" he then abruptly stepped off the podium and walked out the door and quit politics.

Modern People Magazine (1969-1971)- founder of "consumer protection" weekly owned by cousin of National Features Syndicate CEO (see above). Subscribers included Ralph Nader and Sen. Edward Kennedy......

Edited June 10, 2012 by Tom Scully

[Malcolm Ward]

Proof Lee Harvey Oswald was trained by CIA,worked for ONI.

I came across this document,shown in link provided.I don't know if its a fake or true.Or even if its been shown before.Click on document to enlarge.Anyway,enough gas,here is the link.

http://hidhist.wordp...worked-for-oni/

Malcolm, controversy over that "document" has been beaten to death, please let us not dredge it up on this forum? It is known as the "McCone-Rawley document" and it has been around nearly eight years.:

http://mccone-rowley...owley-from.html

http://www.jfklancer...id=19036&page=4

http://mccone-rowley...09/james-l.html

September 26, 2005

....I originally received the McCone-Rowley memo from a former tabloid writer, Jim Moore, who posted the following biographical document to the internet:

http://lists.topica.com/lists/TheOmegaReport/read/message.html?mid=908277472&sort=d&start=18

There is absolutely no reason to believe that this is a real government document either.

FEDERAL AGENCY (redacted)

INVESTIGATIVE BACKGROUND REPORT

SECURITY LEVEL: SECRET TO: DDCI - Washington CC: SAIC - Nashville; SAIC - Memphis; SAIC - Los Angeles

NAME: James L. Moore

DOB: 07/02/45

PLACE OF BIRTH: Independence, MO

RACE: Caucasian

HEIGHT: 5'11"

.....Cuban Student Directorate (CIA cut-out) (1965). Information officer, according to published sources he participated in covert military operations in Cuba.

Federal Reserve Bank (Kansas City, MO) (1965-66). Duties classified.

National Features Syndicate, Chicago, IL (1966-68) CEO - Bob Sorren. Syndicated columnist and investigative reporter, received covert assistance from CIA re: matters pertaining to Cuba and Fidel Castro, worked with Israeli Embassy re: sabotage of Israeli, French and US nuclear submarines after USS Thresher. Was responsible for arrest and imprisonment of 27 organized crime figures in Chicago and New Jersey in counterfeit watch operation targeting Longines-Wittnaur Watch Co. and Hamilton; as a result, a $10,000 Chicago mob contract was let out on him, but strangely, he had some protection from yet another alleged organized crime figure whose granddaughter, Linda Morganelli, was Moore's secretary. Moore was known to be working with the Kennedy family and with New Orleans DA Jim Garrison's staff, as well as unknown law enforcement agencies in California. He was also involved in an investigation of a man convicted for second degree murder in Indiana (Randy K. Wilson) and succeeded in getting Wilson's case re-opened. He was banned from the Indiana State Prison by Governor Roger Branigan on grounds he was "impersonating an attorney" (source: AP) Branigan later apologized publicly, saying he had been misinformed, and subject was fully reinstated his prison visiting rights to meet with Wilson.

US Sen. Robert F. Kennedy (1968) - worked as unpaid volunteer until Kennedy was assassinated 6-6-68.

US Sen. Eugene McCarthy (1968) - Illinois state chairman of McCarthy's presidential campaign, filed an election lawsuit against Illinois Governor (1968) and won a belated US Supreme Court decision (Moore v. Shapiro - USC Jan. 1969). During this period, he was inducted by the Selective Service (Clay County, MO). He took the physical, but refused to take the oath of enlistment and was notified of his imminent arrest and told not to leave the city. His attorney (now unknown) apparently obtained documentary evidence that the subject was the target of an illegal conspiracy involving wiretapping and breaking-and-entering, apparently on the orders of the Missouri Selective Service Director. The Selective Service then dropped all charges and reclassified the subject as 1-D. All records have since been expunged on reasons of "national security."

Subject is also known to have been a target of MKULTRA and MK-Chaos during the 1968 presidential campaign. Attempts were made to enlist subject's support of terrorist actions (bombing of polling booths), but he refused and at the state political convention publicly exposed the actions as part of a "federal agent provacateur plot involving the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society)." After denouncing "those responsible" as "traitors to the American ideal" he then abruptly stepped off the podium and walked out the door and quit politics.

Modern People Magazine (1969-1971)- founder of "consumer protection" weekly owned by cousin of National Features Syndicate CEO (see above). Subscribers included Ralph Nader and Sen. Edward Kennedy......

Thanks for the answer Tom,I said I did not know if it was true or false.As is much about the JFK case.You can take it,case closed for me.

[Paul Trejo]

...The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many lone nut theorists focus soley on the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

While ignoring everything else.

Try looking at the evidence, the mountain of evidence uncovered by private researchers and see where it leads.

Peter, it seems to me that those few on these Forum pages who continue to promote the out-dated, Lone-gunman theory (first promoted by J. Edgar Hoover in 1963) are motivated by their intention to take a free ride on the shoulders of Authority.

Their method of logic is called 'truth by authority." They select an authority whom they understand and can mimic, and then they stick with that as long as they can. That's the whole method.

Oddly enough, it works well fifty percent of the time. Given that high rate of success, and the relative ease of the method, it is reasonable that this method would be used on a wide basis -- it is actually a very commonplace method of logic and argumentation.

The problem is that the 'Lone-gunman' advocates have chosen as their authority the famous J. Edgar Hoover, along with his FBI agency and its offshoot, the Warren Commission. They closed their eyes and ears to everything else after 1963 (when the conclusions were first printed), gambling that nobody would ever fully disprove the conclusions of the great J. Edgar Hoover.

However, if they had been the least bit aware, they would have heard that the U.S. Government itself no longer accepts the Lone-gunman theory as of 1979. Here is the URL of the official HCSA report kept at the National Archives and Records Administration:

http://www.archives....rt/summary.html

The upshot of the HSCA findings is that Lee Harvey Oswald was one of the accomplices of the shooting of JFK, but he did not act alone, and nobody has yet (after 49 years) been able to adequately demonstrate sufficient proof to name any of the other accomplices,

Nevertheless, the HSCA concluded, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that individual members of anti-Castro Cuban groups may have been involved, probably in coordination with individual members of organized crime.

Again, no evidence has been substantiated enough to enable anybody to supply any name of any of these suspected maverick individuals from these two underground hate groups, with enough proof to hold up in a court of law.

That, ultimately, is the properly authoritative, official opinion of the U.S. Government, as it stands today.

To those few who still advocate the Lone-gunman theory on the mistaken premise that this is the position maintained by U.S. Government authority (as it was in 1963), I urge you to click on this URL and bring yourself up-to-date with established authority:

http://www.archives....rt/summary.html

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 10, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Gene Kelly]

...The looming question that I'd like to have answered is this one -- Why do so many lone nut theorists focus soley on the "Oswald Did It" evidence so vigorously?

While ignoring everything else.

Try looking at the evidence, the mountain of evidence uncovered by private researchers and see where it leads.

Peter, it seems to me that those few on these Forum pages who continue to promote the out-dated, Lone-gunman theory (first promoted by J. Edgar Hoover in 1963) are motivated by their intention to take a free ride on the shoulders of Authority.

Their method of logic is called 'truth by authority." They select an authority whom they understand and can mimic, and then they stick with that as long as they can. That's the whole method.

Oddly enough, it works well fifty percent of the time. Given that high rate of success, and the relative ease of the method, it is reasonable that this method would be used on a wide basis -- it is actually a very commonplace method of logic and argumentation.

The problem is that the 'Lone-gunman' advocates have chosen as their authority the famous J. Edgar Hoover, along with his FBI agency and its offshoot, the Warren Commission. They closed their eyes and ears to everything else after 1963 (when the conclusions were first printed), gambling that nobody would ever fully disprove the conclusions of the great J. Edgar Hoover.

However, if they had been the least bit aware, they would have heard that the U.S. Government itself no longer accepts the Lone-gunman theory as of 1979. Here is the URL of the official HCSA report kept at the National Archives and Records Administration:

http://www.archives....rt/summary.html

The upshot of the HSCA findings is that Lee Harvey Oswald was one of the accomplices of the shooting of JFK, but he did not act alone, and nobody has yet (after 49 years) been able to adequately demonstrate sufficient proof to name any of the other accomplices,

Nevertheless, the HSCA concluded, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that individual members of anti-Castro Cuban groups may have been involved, probably in coordination with individual members of organized crime.

Again, no evidence has been substantiated enough to enable anybody to supply any name of any of these suspected maverick individuals from these two underground hate groups, with enough proof to hold up in a court of law.

That, ultimately, is the properly authoritative, official opinion of the U.S. Government, as it stands today.

To those few who still advocate the Lone-gunman theory on the mistaken premise that this is the position maintained by U.S. Government authority (as it was in 1963), I urge you to click on this URL and bring yourself up-to-date with established authority:

http://www.archives....rt/summary.html

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul:

Can you say who the Dallas Planner was... the one who was "far away"?

Gene

[Paul Trejo]

Paul:

Can you say who the Dallas Planner was... the one who was "far away"?

Gene

Gene,

In my personal opinion, based on evidence from the Warren Commission and the HSCA, as well as from JFK conspiracy theorists on this Forum, as well as from evidence found in the Dolph Briscoe Center's Collection of Personal Papers of Edwin Walker, I believe the Dallas Planner was the same person who instigated the massive riots at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962 (and got away with it) and the same person who planned the attack on Adlai Stevenson in Dallas on 24 October 1963 (and got away with it) and the same person who planned the black-bordered ad (WELCOME MR. KENNEDY) and the same person who planned the WANTED FOR TREASON circular (and got away with it). That person was resigned Major General Edwin A. Walker (the only U.S. General to resign in the 20th century).

On the date of the JFK assassination, General Walker happened to be in Louisiana, making speeches alleging that Communists were inside the U.S. Government.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 11, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Gene Kelly]

Thanks Paul... I've admired the detailed work of Jim Root on Walker, who has developed some strong coincidental connections to Taylor, McCloy and Helms. Walker seems both comic but serious... a man who rose to general rank, yet was a fringe lunatic. With the lens of hindsight, he was a pathetic character. He seems to have been largely ignored in the decade following the assasination... why didn't anyone ever prosecute him? Surely, all of the smart guys would've known he was a prime suspect?

I have a difficult time taking him seriously, yet I don't doubt that he was the darling of far right in the early 60's. He led some important WW2 missions, and had Military Intelligence street-credentials. He had friends in high places (and enjoyed the financial backing of HL Hunt)... and the credibilty to enlist JBS/Minutemen activists. But could he command the services of the skilled mechanics and operatives who pulled off the Dealey Plaza 'hit'? It just doesn't fell right to me... why would the Establishment not later crush him (or sacrifice him) like a bug?

Gene

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks Paul... I've admired the detailed work of Jim Root on Walker, who has developed some strong coincidental connections to Taylor, McCloy and Helms. Walker seems both comic but serious... a man who rose to general rank, yet was a fringe lunatic. With the lens of hindsight, he was a pathetic character. He seems to have been largely ignored in the decade following the assasination... why didn't anyone ever prosecute him? Surely, all of the smart guys would've known he was a prime suspect?

I have a difficult time taking him seriously, yet I don't doubt that he was the darling of far right in the early 60's. He led some important WW2 missions, and had Military Intelligence street-credentials. He had friends in high places (and enjoyed the financial backing of HL Hunt)... and the credibilty to enlist JBS/Minutemen activists. But could he command the services of the skilled mechanics and operatives who pulled off the Dealey Plaza 'hit'? It just doesn't fell right to me... why would the Establishment not later crush him (or sacrifice him) like a bug?

Gene

Gene, today we can look back upon Walker and perceive him as pathetic, but in 1962 he was a towering figure. Those were naive days in the USA, when a President could get away with a string of mistresses in the White House, without a peep from the Press.

We should note that General Walker was a military hero in WW2 and Korea, and that he rose to the rank of a two-star General before he fell victim to the lunatic right wing.

The year that Walker joined the John Birch Society (1959) was the year that he first attempted to resign from the US Army. His request for resignation was denied, and he was given a post in Germany as Commander of the 24th Infantry Division in Augsburg. But now, as a member of the fanatic John Birch Society, he (as well as segregationist preacher, Reverend Billy James Hargis, according to Bill Turner and Peter Dale Scott) composed the Pro-Blue reading program of extreme rightist and John Birch Society materials for his 10,000 Troops and their families in Germany. The John Birch Society (as is well documented) preached that FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK were all committed Communists -- traitors.

Actually, the John Birch Society had sympathizers in the House and Senate (e.g. John Rousselot) and Walker would have got away with his experiment if not for the fact that he also strongly urged his Troops to use the "Conservative Society of America Voting Index" for their voting advice in the 1961 elections. This was a violation of the Hatch Act. For this reason, the US Army dismissed him from his Command, and transferred him to Hawaii.

This was a national incident, and it sparked Congressional Hearings! A Senate Subcommittee on Military Preparedness and Troop Education was scheduled for April, 1962, mainly to hear Walker's side of the story and restore his Command in Germany. The national outcry for Walker seemed to resurrect the image of General Douglas MacArthur, who had been dismissed from his Korean Command by President Truman. This was when H.L. Hunt became interested in General Walker (because Hunt had lobbied hard to make MacArthur the next US President). This was when H.L. Hunt began to tempt Walker with promises of fame and fortune, I believe.

As for the notion of crushing Walker like a bug, that is exactly what RFK tried to do after the horror of the Ole Miss riots of 30 September 1962. The very next morning, 1 October 1962, RFK had Federal Troops arrest General Walker and commit him to an insane asylum for a 90-day psychiatric evaluation.

That backfired in RFK's face. The famous psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz, immediately went public with a blitz against Political Psychiatry! What if all elected officials could commit their political opponents to mental institutions? The ACLU quickly joined Thomas Szasz. Now the liberals and the extreme right were united against RFK! Within five days General Walker was released with an apology.

After a period of rest, Walker entered the Grand Jury in Mississippi, and was quickly acquitted. Why so soon? His lawyers (Robert Morris and Clyde Watts) cleverly devised this strategy -- since RFK had blundered by committing Walker to an insane asylum, they would use that as the centerpiece of their case. The main question would not be whether Walker was guilty of inciting the riots, but it would be about whether Walker was insane or not. The main witnesses called were the psychiatrists who committed Walker -- and the lawyers treated these witnesses as if they were on trial. It worked.

As for establishing any case against Walker for the JFK assassination, we should recall a few facts about the Warren Commission. General Walker's name appears more than 700 times in the Warren Commission record. General Walker's name appears in the first three volumes of the series, as well as in the final volume of the series, as well as in multiple volumes in-between.

Further, when Walker himself was interviewed by the Warren Commission in 1964, he was pointedly asked if he had anything to do with the JFK assassination. No, he replied, he was out of town. Did the right wing have anything to do with the JFK assassination? No, you should be looking to the left-wing, not to the right-wing, he replied. Are you a member of the Minutemen? No, he replied. Well -- finally, what about this article in the Deutsche Nationalzeitung of 29 November 1963, that names Oswald as the Walker shooter back in April, when Marina never told anybody about this until December, 1963? The Germans merely guessed it right, was his response. The Walker Commission had no further questions on the topic.

How could they? What case do we have against Walker, personally? What evidence? The only real evidence is that he worked with Robert Allen Surrey, who, along with Bernard Weissman and Larrie Schmidt, published the WANTED FOR TREASON poster about JFK, and the black-bordered ad (WELCOME MR. KENNEDY). But that is too far removed from the action. Most of the references to Walker in the Warren Commission were about the April shooting by Oswald that Marina had confessed to on December 3rd, 1963. But to a witness, everybody played dumb about it, including George De Mohrenschildt, Jeanne De Mohrenshildt, Michael Paine and Ruth Paine -- when actually far more people knew about that scenario than were willing to confess it.

IMHO, Oswald's April shooting at Walker is probably the Rosetta Stone of any case against Walker -- it can explain how Walker became involved in the many proposed wild plots against JFK. And once Walker was involved -- success was assured.

You ask, Gene, if Walker could "command the services of the skilled mechanics and operatives who pulled off the Dealey Plaza hit." Great question. My answer is that Walker, a leader in field artillery, became one of the first Commandos in World War 2 (a Commando was precursor to the Green Beret). Walker was the leader of his unit, a field commander of Commandos from the USA and Canada. In Korea, Walker was the officer who finally took Heartbreak Ridge.

Walker was a West Point graduate. He was schooled in war tactics from childhood. He was well-connected with the General staff at the Pentagon. Walker was an American General. Of course he had the capability to command any group of civilians one wished to throw at him.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 13, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

Paul, can you, or anyone, confirm or refute whether Walker was near Monte Cassini at the time of the landing on Anzio beach?

[Thomas Graves]

Paul, can you, or anyone, confirm or refute whether Walker was near Monte Cassini at the time of the landing on Anzio beach?

Apparently this has become a thread about General Edwin Walker.

Carry on guys.

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it.

Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later.

If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere.

I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart.

So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory).

THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Paul,

I think LHO was inside the TSBD at that time simply because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or helping to set up a "sting" operation on) certain gun running activities taking place there on that particular day. Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby/Joe Civello-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there.) Maybe I'm naive, but I think something was ostensibly "going down" for the express purpose of making LHO "go along with the program" and incriminate himself in the assassination. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie.

Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in "some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI).

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited June 15, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Malcolm Ward]

Paul, can you, or anyone, confirm or refute whether Walker was near Monte Cassini at the time of the landing on Anzio beach?

This gives some details of Walkers timeline John.But I don't think it is specific enough.

World War II Service - Staff Operations 4th Infantry Division Artillery & Commanding Officer 20th Field Artillery Battalion Camp Gordon 1942-1943; Commanding Officer 345th Field Artillery Battalion, 83rd Infantry Division Camp Atterbury & Commander 77th Field Artillery Battalion 2nd Cavalry Division, Fort Clark 1942-1943; Commanding Officer 3rd Regiment, 1st Special Service Force Aleutians & Italy 1943-1944 and Italy & France 1944-1945 (the 1st Special Service Force or FSSF was the fore-runner to the US Army Green Berets known today). For his WWII service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and the Combat Infantry medals.

Source:

http://arms2armor.com/store/product1106.html

[John Dolva]

Thank's Malcolm.

I'm pretty sure he was in the D-day Op so that, if so, accounts for France and Italy leaves open the possibility that, along with others of interest, and things like Gladio, the Strategy of Tension, The Cairo Bureau, the OSS in Italy, Angleton, The Black Prince, and even R.R. Carr fits into a mix of avenues to follow, in particularly if Walker was near Cassini and what his supposed unit was doing at the time of Anzio and of course who he was connected to then which of course could beg a shift in focus for some. So, imo, it is important to resolve what his Italy period was.

I've come across apparently conflicting data like there was a Walker near Monte Cassini but not The Walker or it was two Walkers and The Walker was yet on the promotional ladder. or...

[Thomas Graves]

Don,

Two possibilities:

1) He was told to monitor some kind of activity inside the TSBD

2) He was waiting for a phone call

--Tommy

Tommy,

I understand those possibilities [about why Oswald remained in the building]. However, what kind of activity could he have been monitoring inside the TSBD during the assassination? What activity would have been going on, when everyone (except apparently Oswald) was watching the motorcade?

If he was waiting for a phone call, wouldn't he have objected to it coming during the motorcade, when he could have been watching a public figure he greatly admired? And we have that delay to consider again- if the phone call was to be timed to keep Oswald out of sight while shots were being fired, he had to have been waiting 10-15 minutes for it. Wouldn't he have grown impatient? Pehaps maybe even decided to catch a glmpse of Kennedy?

Tommy and Don, there are more possibilities than those two. Here's a third possibility - Oswald was involved in the assassination, not as a shooter, but as a periperal participant. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming once said that Oswald brought his rifle to the TSBD that day because Hemming promised to buy it.

Oswald, therefore, would have no firm idea that he was being the patsy until much later.

If Oswald brought his rifle to Gerry Hemming to the TSBD to sell it to him, not knowing it would soon be used to frame him, then we seem to have this choice: (1) Oswald was aware that an assassination would be attempted by others at the TSBD building; (2) Oswald was unaware that an assassination would be attempted at the TSBD building; or (3) Oswald was unaware that any assassination would be attempted anywhere.

I believe (2) is the correct choice, for these reasons: (~1) Oswald would never have brought his rifle to the TSBD if he suspected an assassination from the TSBD building; and (~3) Oswald finally found out exactly who he was dealing with in New Orleans as he was currently being blackmailed for having shot at General Edwin Walker, so he knew that an assassination would be attempted in Dallas - most likely at the Trade Mart.

So, Oswald knew who the plotters were, yet he refused to take this information to the police. My theory maintains that Oswald was an accessory to the JFK assassination (while avoiding all the contradictions of the Lone-gunman theory).

THEREFORE: Oswald could have been an informer for the FBI, but he was too unreliable. He was also a prospect for the ONI and the CIA, but again, he was too much of a loose cannon -- too undisciplined. So, he might have done odd jobs for them, contracting here and there. But the money was too little for Oswald, and he wanted something bigger. Therefore, Oswald also dealt with the underground, i.e. with criminals. He could get money for gun-running, for example. (Oswald did not hang out with Communists, but he did hang out with Russian Exiles, Cuban Exiles, ex-Marines and other rightist types, as well as gun-runners. It should be crystal clear to everybody that Oswald was a fake FPCC advocate, though a pretty good fake.)

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Paul,

I think LHO was inside the TSBD at that time simply because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or helping to set up a "sting" operation on) certain gun running activities taking place there that day. Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby/Joe Civello-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there.) Maybe I'm naive, but I think something was ostensibly "going down" for the express purpose of making LHO "go along with the program" and incriminate himself in the assassination. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie.

Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in "some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI).

--Tommy

edited and bumped

bump and P.S.: Ruby had been a Federal Bureau of Narcotics informant as far back as 1947, and we all know he was into gun running, too. Hmmm....

Edited June 16, 2012 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Paul,

I think LHO was inside the TSBD at that time simply because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or helping to set up a "sting" operation on) certain gun running activities taking place there that day. Evidence suggests that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running/explosives transhipment activity, which, in my mind, was probably to the CRC/Alpha 66-type anti-Castro Cubans. Ideally situated by the railway yard, big wooden crates, owners, supervisors and employees with "interesting" backgrounds, etc. (We cannot rule out the possibility of Mafia/CIA/Jack Ruby/Joe Civello-connected drug smuggling activity's taking place there.) Maybe I'm naive, but I think something was ostensibly "going down" for the express purpose of making LHO "go along with the program" and incriminate himself in the assassination. The timing would have been perfect for a real gun running deal to go down there in that everyone's attention would have been focused on JFK and Jackie.

Let's not forget that the "tramps" were found in a boxcar that also had a significant amount of explosives in it. Maybe the "tramps" themselves thought that they were participating in "some criminal activity other than the assassination that day. Or maybe they were there to make LHO think there was a gun/explosives deal going down that day, which LHO was either participating in, or more likely, monitoring as an undercover agent for the predecessor of ATF (or for Customs or Military Intel or FBI).

--Tommy

bump and P.S.: Ruby had been a Federal Bureau of Narcotics informant as far back as 1947, and we all know he was into gun running, too. Hmmm....

Tommy, I finally get around to responding to your interesting questions about Oswald. You think Oswald was inside the TSBD at noon on 11/22/1963 because he'd been duped into thinking he was monitoring (or "stinging") gun running activities taking place there that day.

That's vaguely possible, but more information would be required to arrive at that conclusion. For example, Gerry Patrick Hemming confessed to his role in the JFK assassination when he said that he personally asked Oswald to bring his rifle to the TSBD to sell it to Hemming that day. Marines stick together, and Oswald needed the money (with a second baby on the way) so Oswald was going to sell his rifle to Hemming.

Now, this doesn't discount rumors that the TSBD was a hotbed of gun running.

But even more crucial (IMHO) is the culture of the TSBD personnel, i.e. almost all of them had guns and rifles, and they often brought them to work for show-and-tell. Wesley Frazier also had firearms.

Oswald's supervisor also had firearms, and as I recall the story, on the week of the JFK assassination he had just purchased a new rifle, so he brought it into the TSBD to show it off. It was a Mauser. Employees at the TSBD did not blink, but expected to see guns and rifles at the TSBD on a regular basis.

As for gun-running -- every extreme right-winger who had any money to spare was almost certainly going to contribute money to the Cuban Exiles who urgently wanted to overthrow Fidel Castro in Cuba. This was the big political movement of the day. So, it is quite likely, IMHO, that the owner of the TSBD building (who was wealthy and almost certainly a rightist) would participate in gun-running 'for the cause.'

The Kennedys, in order to put on a peaceful front for the United Nations, ordered all above-ground Cuban Exile training grounds to be shut down -- but secretly the Kennedys kept underground training grounds in operation (according to Lamar Waldron). So, the legitimate gun-running during the Eisenhower years became underground during the Kennedy years -- but it still existed.

Also, the TSBD building was set in Dealey Plaza, which was owned by the Dallas Morning News operator, E.M. Dealey, who was a notorious rightist in newspaper journalism and in his personal politics. I would suspect that all the building owners in Dealey Plaza would be known and approved by E.M. Dealey personally. (BTW, does anybody know who owned the TSBD building?)

So, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the TSBD was a site of gun-running via the railroad system. However, more evidence should be forthcoming. If evidence is found, then I would also agree that the recipients of the weapons would also be the Cuban Exiles, including Alpha-66, CRC and DRE groups, among others.

The question you raised - and I also raise - is what exactly was 'going down' to make Oswald play the patsy?

Two broad theories are possible: (1) Oswald was spying for the FBI and was the good guy in this plot; and (2) Oswald was part of the plot. Jim Garrison at one point opted for theory #1, but I think he did that to shake some trees. If Oswald was an FBI informer, then he would have been protected by the FBI when he was arrested by the Dallas Police; and he would have been even cooler and calmer under pressure from the Press, and he might even have told the Press who the real conspirators were. But Oswald kept a tight lip. He knew far more than he said.

Also, a gun-running deal is small potatoes compared with a Presidential assassination. Oswald wouldn't have let himself be patsified over a gun-running operation. The numbers don't match up. Gun running was not so illegal that people were regularly killed over it. So much of it was going on underground - even by the Kennedys themselves -- that savvy gun-runners made good business in lean times and fat.

The "tramps" are a separate and special issue, Tommy. The photographs we have of them show that they were not really tramps -- as Jim Garrison noted long ago -- but those photographs also show that the policemen marching them around were not really policemen -- they didn't know how to hold their rifles. It was theater. They were probably part of a ground-crew of two dozen or more.

In my theory, Tommy, Oswald was not undercover for the good guys, he was guilty. On the other hand, Oswald was in no way a lone gunman -- in fact he was the least involved of the ground-crew that day. The main ground crew -- as Jim Garrison noted long ago -- absolutely had to involve at least a few Dallas Police.

IMHO, Roscoe White is a fitting suspect, since he had just joined the Dallas Police Department in August, and even as a trainee was already wearing a uniform and carrying a gun. In the Marines White was a sharpshooter with few equals. (His son believes he was involved, and so does Ron Lewis, who claims to have known Oswald briefly in New Orleans, and further claims that Oswald told him that Roscoe White was going to shoot JFK in Dallas, but not to worry, because he, Oswald, had a secret plan to stop the plot before it went too far (and he confided in Lewis because Lewis was on the lam from the cops)).

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

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Edited June 16, 2012 by Paul Trejo

[Malcolm Ward]

Roscoe White sounds very much like Badgeman from ,

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwhiteR.htm

Roscoe White joined the United States Marines and left for Japan in August, 1957. He was stationed at Atsugi and worked on the U-2 project.

Whitejoined the Dallas Police Force in September, 1963. Soon afterwards, his wife Geneva White, claimed that she overheard her husband and Jack Ruby plotting the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

White left the police force and was employed by a company called M & M Equipment. On 23rd September, 1971, White and a fellow worker, Richard Adair were both badly burnt in an industrial fire. Adair recovered but White died the following day.

On 4h September, 1990, Roscoe's son, Ricky White, revealed to a meeting at the University of Texas that his father had been involved in killing the president: "The diary said after my father shot the President he handed his 7.65 Mauser to the man standing beside him, hurled over the fence, took the film from the military man, whirled around the fence and went through the parking lot."

White added that Lee Harvey Oswald had also taken part but had not fired any of the shots. White then went on to kill J. D. Tippit. Ricky White claimed he had got this information from his father's diary. This apparently had been taken away by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.