'Hiding in Plain Sight' Photographic Evidence of Bullet Hole in JFK Limousine Windshield by Douglas P. Horne

[Bernice Moore]

http://lewrockwell.c...rne-d2.1.1.html

Photographic Evidence of Bullet Hole in JFK Limousine Windshield 'Hiding in Plain Sight' by Douglas P. Horne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vkH2ILChHo

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Edited June 8, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Ron Ecker]

For Doug Horne's work, from the ARRB up to now, I think he deserves to receive the Medal of Freedom. What do you think are the chances?

[Josh Cron]

Does anybody have a copy of the DVD? Would it be possible to post a hi-quality screen shot of the supposed bullet hole?

[Daniel Gallup]

Josh, I have a copy of The Smoking Guns, but the segment involving the bullet hole in the windshield consists of eye-witness testimony to it (and this is quite powerful), not pictures of the actual hole itself. The Secret Service drove the limo away from Parkland and kept observers for the most part away from the limo. Had someone taken a picture of the hole while the limo was at Parkland, that film would have been confiscated anyway. Shots from the front were not suppose to happen, IMO, and this was known by those Secret Service involved in the assassination, whoever they were. For a good study of the windshield, it's hard to beat Weldon's article in Murder in Dealey Plaza , pp. 129 ff. Some of the people mentioned in the article are interviewed in The Smoking Guns. Best, Daniel

[Peter McGuire]

Have not seen this in a while - great work. I must say now that I do not care if it was Rybka or another Agent called off at Love - makes no difference. I also do not care if "Mac" Malcolm Kilduff says he did not say, or point to his temple when explaining the president's fatal wound. The first explanation is usually the correct one and those covering up this Coup D' Etat are experts at trying to explain away the truth.

[Stuart Wexler]

The problem here is that Bill Miller, in my mind, has come awfully close to debunking the "bullet in the windshield" argument with actual photos. Perhaps he will chime in here if he is around. Much of the argument was on Lancer's forum.

[Josh Cron]

Daniel, the quote below is from the article by Doug Horne linked to in the original post.

There is some "B-roll" in "The Smoking Guns" episode, only a little over two seconds long, which definitely appears to show the bullet hole in the limousine windshield – the through-and-through bullet hole described by the six credible witnesses cited above. This is shown during the segment of the program in which Evalea Glanges was interviewed. This "B-roll" footage appears between the times of 14:02 and 14:04 on the DVD, and consists of a total of 84 video frames (there are 30 video frames per second in a U.S. television broadcast). The black-and-white images appear to come from standard 16 mm B & W newsreel footage, taken by a stocky man wearing a hat who had approached the Presidential limousine as it was parked outside the Parkland Hospital emergency room (and before the bubble top was installed). The point of view (POV) of the camera was that of someone sitting in the limousine, or rather standing just beside it and to the right side. The camera is pointed at the inside surface of the windshield from behind – that is the POV. One man in a suit and tie can be seen standing on the front side, or forward of, the windshield, and two DPD motorcycle patrolmen (are they Ellis and Freeman?) can be seen leaning in and examining the windshield. What looks to me like a through-and-through bullet hole is visible in all 84 video frames, left of center on the windshield (adopting the POV of the camera) and approximately halfway down from the top, although these are only rough approximations.

Would you mind checking out the clip and letting us know what you see?

[Joseph Backes]

Josh,

You do understand that you are not going to find the image Doug Horne is referring to unless you've got the DVD and a high - def TV, right? Daniel does not indicate he has the show on DVD, nor does he indicate he has a high-def TV. So, it's completely POINTLESS to watch it on Youtube.com, or on VHS, or in any way other than how Doug said to look for it, right?

Edited June 10, 2012 by Joseph Backes

[Joseph Backes]

Josh,

You do understand that you are not going to find the image Doug Horne is referring to unless you've got the DVD and a high - def TV, right? Daniel does not indicate he has the show on DVD, nor does he indicate he has a high-def TV. So, it's completely POINTLESS to watch it on Youtube.com, or on VHS, or in any way other than how Doug said to look for it, right?

From an email Doug sent out:

Dear friends,

As usual, I have been discovering and correcting typos in my piece---and wordsmithing a few phrases---during the two days subsequent to its release. This seems to be inevitable, unfortunately. You wake up the next day and suddenly notice mistakes you didn't see the day before.

I am now satisfied that it is properly corrected and wordsmithed.

Please discard---delete---all previous versions. Sorry for the confusion, but it is virtually impossible for someone to perfectly proofread his own work. This version also contains the caveat that you cannot see this evidence in the crappy, low-resolution posting on U-Tube. People need to understand that you need the factory-produced DVD to do this research.

(emphasis added)

Here is the link the corrected copy: http://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/2012/06/01/

[Daniel Gallup]

The problem here is that Bill Miller, in my mind, has come awfully close to debunking the "bullet in the windshield" argument with actual photos. Perhaps he will chime in here if he is around. Much of the argument was on Lancer's forum.

Bill Miller has nothing of the sort. Stuart, photo experts are experts primarily in contradicting eye-witness testimony. Actual photos are open to subjective interpretation, as well, unfortunately, to alteration. I suggest listening to those on the DVD who saw the hole, and judge for yourself whether these witnesses sound credible. Yes, I have a copy of the DVD, but it is not of sufficient quality to discern a hole. But the eyewitnesses are most impressive, and trump anything Bill Miller or any other alleged photo expert mgiht say. If I sound testy, and I admit I am, it is because of Bill Miller's absurd responses some challenges I have laid at his feet, namely: 1. where in the extant film is all the ejecta which left the back of Kennedy's head? The extant film shows 0 -- zero-- leaving the back of his head. Miller's response: it left too fast to be captured by the camera. 2. to the claims of Toni Foster, the Running Woman, who is one of the clearest and articulate witnesses to the limo stop, thanks to Debra Conway's interview of her in 2000. She like the Newmans and several motorcycle officers and others, said the limo stopped right in front them. MIller: collective shock made them see something that wasn't there. If Bill had taken time to read Debra's interview with Toni Foster, he would have seen how specific she was in describing the events surrounding the head stop. And it is apparent from the interview that she was not aware that her recollections were at variance with the extant film.

Bill Miller is a fine man and dedicated researcher, but when his conclusions contradict corroborative eye-witness testimony, I'll take the witnesses every time. I think the DVD The Smoking Guns is a must see. I do wish I had it in high def, but do not. Best, Daniel

[Josh Cron]

Yes Joseph, obviously I realize the bullet hole is not visible in the youtube version of the program, otherwise I would have simply viewed the clip myself. Daniel mentioned he owned the program and I assumed it was the dvd version.

[Joseph Backes]

The problem here is that Bill Miller, in my mind, has come awfully close to debunking the "bullet in the windshield" argument with actual photos. Perhaps he will chime in here if he is around. Much of the argument was on Lancer's forum.

Bill Miller has nothing of the sort. Stuart, photo experts are experts primarily in contradicting eye-witness testimony. Actual photos are open to subjective interpretation, as well, unfortunately, to alteration. I suggest listening to those on the DVD who saw the hole, and judge for yourself whether these witnesses sound credible. Yes, I have a copy of the DVD, but it is not of sufficient quality to discern a hole. But the eyewitnesses are most impressive, and trump anything Bill Miller or any other alleged photo expert mgiht say. If I sound testy, and I admit I am, it is because of Bill Miller's absurd responses some challenges I have laid at his feet, namely: 1. where in the extant film is all the ejecta which left the back of Kennedy's head? The extant film shows 0 -- zero-- leaving the back of his head. Miller's response: it left too fast to be captured by the camera. 2. to the claims of Toni Foster, the Running Woman, who is one of the clearest and articulate witnesses to the limo stop, thanks to Debra Conway's interview of her in 2000. She like the Newmans and several motorcycle officers and others, said the limo stopped right in front them. MIller: collective shock made them see something that wasn't there. If Bill had taken time to read Debra's interview with Toni Foster, he would have seen how specific she was in describing the events surrounding the head stop. And it is apparent from the interview that she was not aware that her recollections were at variance with the extant film.

Bill Miller is a fine man and dedicated researcher, but when his conclusions contradict corroborative eye-witness testimony, I'll take the witnesses every time. I think the DVD The Smoking Guns is a must see. I do wish I had it in high def, but do not. Best, Daniel

No,

You need the DVD and a high def TV. It's the TV that has to be high def, not the DVD. I don't think there was a high-def version of the DVD.

[Joseph Backes]

Again, from Doug's blog:

The viewer needs the factory-produced DVD; a good DVD player with functioning frame-by-frame advance; and a big screen, High Definition (1080p) TV.

The rest of Doug's blog entry on this is here - http://insidethearrb.livejournal.com/2012/06/01/

[Ray Mitcham]

Doug mentions Bill Ashby in the write up

"Researcher Robert P. Smith (as reported by David Lifton in Best Evidence) interviewed a Mr. Bill Ashby, crew leader at the Arlington Glass Company, who told Smith he removed the limousine's windshield in Washington, D.C. on November 27th; this occurred after Roy Kellerman had felt the interior surface earlier that day and determined it to be damaged on the inside, and smooth on the outside. "

Just for historical accuracy, Bill Ashby signed the White House log at 11.15 on the 26th November. His name doesn't appear on the 27th.

[Robin Unger]

can someone post a screenshot of the youtube frame supposedly showing a bullet hole.

It doesn't have to show the hole, just to be used as a reference in case i decide to purchase the DVD.

I have a 1080P High Def TV & Blue Ray Recorder.