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Bernardo De Torres


John Simkin
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After persuading journalists to make a fuss about this act of censorship, Bernardo de Torres has been returned to the Google databse (ranked 1st out of 1,380,000 pages).

There is a very interesting passage in William Turner's book, Rearview Mirror about the Jim Garrison investigation:

"Eladio del Valle's body was found in a Miami parking lot twelve hours after Ferrie's was discovered in New Orleans. The DA investigator who was searching for del Valle, Bernardo De Torres, turned out to be a suspicious character in his own right. A veteran of the Bay of Pigs, De Torres showed up on Garrison's doorstep early in the probe, saying he was a private detective from Miami who wanted to help, and dropping the name of Miami DA Richard Gerstein, a friend of Garrison's, as an opener. In retrospect, Garrison remembered that every lead De Torres developed ended up in a box canyon. He also learned that De Torres was forwarding reports on his investigation to the Miami CIA station. In 1977 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) came to believe that De Torres might have played a role in Dallas. "De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box," a HSCA report states. "These pictures were taken during the assassination of JFK." When hauled before the committee, De Torres denied any implication."

I have asked William if he could tell us anything else about the belief that De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box. Does anyone know who gave this evidence to the HSCA?

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John, one of Fonzi's exile informants came up with the DP photo comment. He's the one that Fonzi was actually going to use to "sting" De Torres until he got a frantic call telling him the HSCA didn't do things like that....you know, real criminal investigation "stuff". Sorry the name escapes me at the moment.

However you will find the whole story in Gaeton's book when he's writing about "Carlos".

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John, one of Fonzi's exile informants came up with the DP photo comment. He's the one that Fonzi was actually going to use to "sting" De Torres until he got a frantic call telling him the HSCA didn't do things like that....you know, real criminal investigation "stuff".  Sorry the name escapes me at the moment.

However you will find the whole story in Gaeton's book when he's writing about "Carlos".

Hi Larry!

This from one of Weberman's nodules:

TO: Tannenabaum

FROM: Fonzi

Re: Adames & Otero interviews.

Enclosed are rough notes of my latest interviews with Juan Adames and Rolando Otero. This was my second interview with both men and the first with Adames where I identified myself and my affiliation with the Committee. The additional information developed in both interviews strengthens my opinion that we have a possibly significant new area of investigation which should be given attention.

Here are some of the important points developed in the interview with Adames:

- His experience in the Dominican Republic revolution reveal Mitch Werbell to be an extremely important character in that operation whose connections go up to the highest levels of the military-intelligence community.

- Werbell had very close association with Paul Bethel. I have always thought Bethel to be a key figure. He was press attache in the Havana Embassy and was probably the CIA's liaison-coordinator with anti-Castro groups in Miami. He was one of the first persons Veciana was told to see when he arrived here. Bethel is a very close friend of DAVID PHILLIPS whom, Bethel himself told me, was working covert propaganda in Havana...

- That De TORRES himself does have past experience in assassination involvement.

- That Werbell does have a special relationship with Andrew St. George, and that our assumption about that relationship (see Memo May 22, 1977) may be right.

- Although we get a partial corroboration of what Otero had told us Adames had told him about De TORRES having some connection with the Kennedy assassination, from Adames we don't get the information that De TORRES was involved or that he was on the scene on November 22, 1963. That's specifically why I went back to Otero. From him I again got the very detailed contention that Adames told him, when both were in the Broward County Jail, that De TORRES was involved in the Kennedy assassination and that he personally knew LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

Otero said he would be willing to testify under oath to that. Corroborating to some extent Otero's story is what Otero's girlfriend Kathy told Otero's lawyer, Bob Rosenblatt, a few weeks ago. She said that during the brief period that Adames was out on bond, he came to see her regarding possibly helping Otero. However, without being asked about it, Kathy volunteered that Adames seemed interested in what Otero might have told her about this fellow De TORRES.

Conversely, Adames says nothing to us about meeting Otero in the Broward County jail (though records indicate they were there at the same time) or his visit to Kathy. I didn't want to question him about it specifically because I did not want to reveal to him our lead to him was Otero, and if we ever get them both under oath, that could be a significant point to put some pressure on.

I tend to put more validity to Otero's information since we have made no deals with him and he has nothing to gain, as a far as a I can see now, from feeding us misinformation. There's a possibility as a far as a I can read it now, that Adames may be weighing the value of his information, holding back to see if the situation will develop where he can get the best price or deal for it.

Adames is undoubtedly a con man and there is a risk in using him that he will sell out, but, on the other hand, he could be of immense value in developing the details of De TORRES possible involvement. On that assumption, I told him I would make an effort to expedite his situation to either a work release program or parole. This week he has been transferred to the Broward County Prison, which may be preliminary to placing him on the work release program. I'm checking on that, but I would like him to think, it's so, that we had something to do with it. Adames, as a a risk to society, is minimal or nil. I feel we should make an effort to expedite his situation in order to use him most effectively, or at least do something to make him feel we were instrumental in what is going to happen to him anyway.

I also feel we should perhaps consider at some point a subpoena duces tecum for De TORRES regarding those photo he allegedly has in his bank vault. I think we should combine it with a 24-hour surveillance program when he gets it. [NARA HSCA 180-10092-10141]

Juan Adames, was incarcerated for possession of a forged driver license. Gaeton Fonzi elaborated: "Otero said his source had told him that OSWALD was sent to Russia as a CIA agent. The decision to kill Kennedy was made before OSWALD'S return to the United States. Most of the final planning and coordination took place at meetings held at the Dallas YMCA building. BERNARDO De TORRES posed as a photographer in Dealey Plaza on November 22." Gaeton Fonzi checked with Juan Adames and was told, "I would not put anything past De TORRES since I know that's the kind of business he's involved in. He led me to believe he had some photographs from down there, but I don't know from when. He said they were in a bank vault. The more I think about it, if De TORRES was involved in anyway, Mitch Werbell must have been." [Fonzi, Last Investigation Ch. 28]
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After persuading journalists to make a fuss about this act of censorship, Bernardo de Torres has been returned to the Google databse (ranked 1st out of 1,380,000 pages).

There is a very interesting passage in William Turner's book, Rearview Mirror about the Jim Garrison investigation:

"Eladio del Valle's body was found in a Miami parking lot twelve hours after Ferrie's was discovered in New Orleans. The DA investigator who was searching for del Valle, Bernardo De Torres, turned out to be a suspicious character in his own right. A veteran of the Bay of Pigs, De Torres showed up on Garrison's doorstep early in the probe, saying he was a private detective from Miami who wanted to help, and dropping the name of Miami DA Richard Gerstein, a friend of Garrison's, as an opener. In retrospect, Garrison remembered that every lead De Torres developed ended up in a box canyon. He also learned that De Torres was forwarding reports on his investigation to the Miami CIA station. In 1977 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) came to believe that De Torres might have played a role in Dallas. "De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box," a HSCA report states. "These pictures were taken during the assassination of JFK." When hauled before the committee, De Torres denied any implication."

I have asked William if he could tell us anything else about the belief that De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box. Does anyone know who gave this evidence to the HSCA?

delval_a1.jpg

deadcert-del-val.jpg

More Here:

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After persuading journalists to make a fuss about this act of censorship, Bernardo de Torres has been returned to the Google databse (ranked 1st out of 1,380,000 pages).

There is a very interesting passage in William Turner's book, Rearview Mirror about the Jim Garrison investigation:

"Eladio del Valle's body was found in a Miami parking lot twelve hours after Ferrie's was discovered in New Orleans. The DA investigator who was searching for del Valle, Bernardo De Torres, turned out to be a suspicious character in his own right. A veteran of the Bay of Pigs, De Torres showed up on Garrison's doorstep early in the probe, saying he was a private detective from Miami who wanted to help, and dropping the name of Miami DA Richard Gerstein, a friend of Garrison's, as an opener. In retrospect, Garrison remembered that every lead De Torres developed ended up in a box canyon. He also learned that De Torres was forwarding reports on his investigation to the Miami CIA station. In 1977 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) came to believe that De Torres might have played a role in Dallas. "De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box," a HSCA report states. "These pictures were taken during the assassination of JFK." When hauled before the committee, De Torres denied any implication."

I have asked William if he could tell us anything else about the belief that De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box. Does anyone know who gave this evidence to the HSCA?

delval_a1.jpg

deadcert-del-val.jpg

More Here:

I found this on http://www.spitfirelist.com/f288.html while doing a search on www.officialfind.com for Bernardo de Torres.

10. “On the day Ferrie died, del Valle was found brutally murdered in his car in the parking lot of a Miami shopping center. Prior to that, Garrison had sent a part-time investigator named Bernardo de Torres to question del Valle. De Torres was a military coordinator for the Brigade 2506 part of the exile landing force during the Bay of Pigs invasion. He was captured by Castro’s forces and detained until Christmas Eve of 1962. He eventually found his way to New Orleans where, according to de Torres, he was approached by Sergeant Duffy of the NOPD and asked to join Garrison's staff. As with many other investigators and volunteers at Tulane and Broad, de Torres’ bona fides are suspect. First of all, it was de Torres who showed up at the D.A.’s office in New Orleans very early in Garrison’s investigation claiming he had important information. He said he was a private detective who wanted to help and dropped the name of Miami D.A. Richard Gerstein as an entrée. Shortly after de Torres was given the assignment to question del Valle, del Valle’s brutalized body was discovered in the vicinity of de Torres’ Miami apartment. It was later determined that de Torres was filing reports on Garrison to the Miami CIA station, JM/WAVE. Not long after he left Garrison’s staff, de Torres went to work for Mitch Werbell’s Military Armament Corporation, a large supplier of weaponry to the CIA. The HSCA developed evidence that de Torres was actually a CIA officer with links to Military Intelligence. A well connected anti-Castro Cuban, Arturo Cobos told the FBI that de Torres was ‘the man to call with contacts on a high level with the CIA in Washington, D.C.’ The HSCA also came into possession of investigative information, which indicated that de Torres may have been in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination, and further, that he may have been involved in an assassination conspiracy, charges which de Torres denies. As for Garrison he later came to believe that de Torres was one of his earliest sources of misinformation and recalled that whatever information de Torres provided never went anywhere. In the late 1970’s, de Torres would be linked to the bombing assassination of Chilean leader Orlando Letelier in Washington, D.C.” (Ibid.; pp. 148-149.)

I believe the Ibid reference at bottom is from "Let Justice be Done" by by William Davy; Copyright 1999 [sC]; Jordan Publishing; ISBN 0-9669716-0-4.) Relying largely on documents declassified in the wake of the Oliver Stone film JFK, Davy’s extraordinary book validates much of what Garrison had to say.

I don't like getting my hopes up and being disappointed but seeing this makes me even more anxious to read Joan Mellen's book

P.S. I will preface this by saying "this is what happens when you are researching the JFK assassination and you can't afford to buy every single book ever written about the assassination."

Even though this section doesen't mention de Torres by name; I put it with this post because even though I had heard previously that Lee Harvey Oswald had been seen there, this is the first time that I have ever heard David Atlee Philips mentioned in the same sentence; I suspect I am not the only one. Robt.

Footnote 5:

The H.S.C.A. appears to have obtained a film of this facility (Lake Ponchartrain) .... which connects some very interesting people. Robert Tannenbaum, recalled that the committee viewed the film.... According to Tannenbaum, depicted in the film among the Cuban exiles were Guy Banister, David Atlee Philips and Lee Harvey Oswald. Inexplicably, the film would later disappear from the Committee’s files.” (Ibid.; p. 30.) For more on this subject, see also: L#3, RFA#12, FTR#188.

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After persuading journalists to make a fuss about this act of censorship, Bernardo de Torres has been returned to the Google databse (ranked 1st out of 1,380,000 pages).

There is a very interesting passage in William Turner's book, Rearview Mirror about the Jim Garrison investigation:

"Eladio del Valle's body was found in a Miami parking lot twelve hours after Ferrie's was discovered in New Orleans. The DA investigator who was searching for del Valle, Bernardo De Torres, turned out to be a suspicious character in his own right. A veteran of the Bay of Pigs, De Torres showed up on Garrison's doorstep early in the probe, saying he was a private detective from Miami who wanted to help, and dropping the name of Miami DA Richard Gerstein, a friend of Garrison's, as an opener. In retrospect, Garrison remembered that every lead De Torres developed ended up in a box canyon. He also learned that De Torres was forwarding reports on his investigation to the Miami CIA station. In 1977 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) came to believe that De Torres might have played a role in Dallas. "De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box," a HSCA report states. "These pictures were taken during the assassination of JFK." When hauled before the committee, De Torres denied any implication."

I have asked William if he could tell us anything else about the belief that De Torres has pictures of Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box. Does anyone know who gave this evidence to the HSCA?

delval_a1.jpg

deadcert-del-val.jpg

More Here:

I found this on http://www.spitfirelist.com/f288.html while doing a search on www.officialfind.com for Bernardo de Torres.

10. “On the day Ferrie died, del Valle was found brutally murdered in his car in the parking lot of a Miami shopping center. Prior to that, Garrison had sent a part-time investigator named Bernardo de Torres to question del Valle. De Torres was a military coordinator for the Brigade 2506 part of the exile landing force during the Bay of Pigs invasion. He was captured by Castro’s forces and detained until Christmas Eve of 1962. He eventually found his way to New Orleans where, according to de Torres, he was approached by Sergeant Duffy of the NOPD and asked to join Garrison's staff. As with many other investigators and volunteers at Tulane and Broad, de Torres’ bona fides are suspect. First of all, it was de Torres who showed up at the D.A.’s office in New Orleans very early in Garrison’s investigation claiming he had important information. He said he was a private detective who wanted to help and dropped the name of Miami D.A. Richard Gerstein as an entrée. Shortly after de Torres was given the assignment to question del Valle, del Valle’s brutalized body was discovered in the vicinity of de Torres’ Miami apartment. It was later determined that de Torres was filing reports on Garrison to the Miami CIA station, JM/WAVE. Not long after he left Garrison’s staff, de Torres went to work for Mitch Werbell’s Military Armament Corporation, a large supplier of weaponry to the CIA. The HSCA developed evidence that de Torres was actually a CIA officer with links to Military Intelligence. A well connected anti-Castro Cuban, Arturo Cobos told the FBI that de Torres was ‘the man to call with contacts on a high level with the CIA in Washington, D.C.’ The HSCA also came into possession of investigative information, which indicated that de Torres may have been in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination, and further, that he may have been involved in an assassination conspiracy, charges which de Torres denies. As for Garrison he later came to believe that de Torres was one of his earliest sources of misinformation and recalled that whatever information de Torres provided never went anywhere. In the late 1970’s, de Torres would be linked to the bombing assassination of Chilean leader Orlando Letelier in Washington, D.C.” (Ibid.; pp. 148-149.)

I believe the Ibid reference at bottom is from "Let Justice be Done" by by William Davy; Copyright 1999 [sC]; Jordan Publishing; ISBN 0-9669716-0-4.) Relying largely on documents declassified in the wake of the Oliver Stone film JFK, Davy’s extraordinary book validates much of what Garrison had to say.

I don't like getting my hopes up and being disappointed but seeing this makes me even more anxious to read Joan Mellen's book

P.S. I will preface this by saying "this is what happens when you are researching the JFK assassination and you can't afford to buy every single book ever written about the assassination."

Even though this section doesen't mention de Torres by name; I put it with this post because even though I had heard previously that Lee Harvey Oswald had been seen there, this is the first time that I have ever heard David Atlee Philips mentioned in the same sentence; I suspect I am not the only one. Robt.

Footnote 5:

The H.S.C.A. appears to have obtained a film of this facility (Lake Ponchartrain) .... which connects some very interesting people. Robert Tannenbaum, recalled that the committee viewed the film.... According to Tannenbaum, depicted in the film among the Cuban exiles were Guy Banister, David Atlee Philips and Lee Harvey Oswald. Inexplicably, the film would later disappear from the Committee’s files.” (Ibid.; p. 30.) For more on this subject, see also: L#3, RFA#12, FTR#188.

Also from Peter Dale Scott Deep Politics III (CIA, Drug Traffic & Oswald in Mexico)

As Chief of Covert Action in the Mexico City CIA Station, and later as Chief of Cuban Operations, David Phillips oversaw these intercept operations. Simultaneously he held a second operational responsibility in the Special Affairs Staff, which in 1963 was co-ordinating all covert operations (including assassinations) against Castro. Some of these anti-Castro Cuban assets were based in Mexico City, and two of these in particular have been linked to the Kennedy assassination.

The first is Isidro (or Eusebio) Borja, the Mexican –born Cuban military chief of the exile group DRE, the Directorio Revolucionario Estudiantil. At the 1995 meeting in Nassau between Cuban and American students of the assassination, the Cubans reported that according to their files Borja was back in Mexico in 1962-63, as an asset of Phillips. This is quite credible, given Borja’s Mexican background, plus the DRE’s role in propaganda activities for the Bay of Pigs, for which Phillips was responsible.[173]

The Cubans, who had seen a photograph of Borja also suggested that Borja might have been the alleged Mexican observed in the photographs of Oswald leafleting in New Orleans.[174] More relevant in my view is Borja’s responsibility for the DRE’s military arms procurement program in 1963, which brought the DRE to Dallas and possible contact (according to a book by Ray and Mary La Fontaine) with both Oswald and Jack Ruby.[175] Of particular interest is the fact that arms were being supplied by a Captain of the U.S. Army at Fort Hood (Capt. George Nonte), the army base in Texas which for some reason maintained an intelligence file both on Oswald and his alias “A.J. Hidell.” [176] I shall have more to say about this DRE program, which impinged on the assassination in Chicago as well as Dallas, in Chapters XIV-XVI.###

The second of Phillips’ anti-Castro Cuban assets was Bernardo de Torres, the assassination suspect referred to by Gaeton Fonzi as “Carlos.” [177] De Torres also developed close relationships with the DFS and has been accused of smuggling drugs out of Mexico with the knowledge of Nazar Haro. [178]

Bernardo de Torres has further been established as a contact of David Sanchez Morales.[179] Morales was a CIA officer and killer who "was well known as the Agency's top assassin in Latin America." He also openly described Kennedy's conduct during the Bay of Pigs operation "as traición (betrayal)."[180] According to a friend, Morales once ended an anti-Kennedy tirade with the words, "Well, we took care of that son of a bitch, didn't we?"[181]

Since the 1950s Morales' career had closely paralleled that of his friend David Phillips: in Caracas, on the Guatemala operation, on the Bay of Pigs, and by 1963 at the JM/WAVE station. Two witnesses have stated that when Morales was stationed at JM/WAVE in Miami, and Phillips in Mexico City, "Morales would frequently travel from... Miami to Mexico City."[182] Two of Morales' friends said that Morales spoke of having taken part in the killing of Che Guevara (1967), and also of "a leader of the government in Chile" (either General Schneider in 1970 or President Allende in 1973).[183] The former assassination at least would have been while under the direction of David Phillips, who was in charge of the CIA's program to prevent Allende from assuming office.[184]

But in 1963 Morales was also meeting with the former principals of the ZR/RIFLE plots, William Harvey and John Rosselli, for purposes which are unexplained, and were possibly unauthorized.[185] Rosselli, an associate of Richard Cain from Chicago, had been the principal mob participant in the ZR/RIFLE project to assassinate Castro.[186] But by 1963 Harvey, after infuriating both Robert Kennedy and CIA Director McCone, had been taken off anti-Castro operations and reassigned as CIA Station Chief in Rome. The FBI had Rosselli under close observation in 1963; and allegedly overheard him and Harvey indulge themselves "by saying nasty things about Bobby Kennedy."[187]

Another significant revelation is the presence in William Harvey's ZR/RIFLE files of Harold Meltzer, who in the 1940s helped build up the Mafia's Mexico City drug connection.[188] According to Richard Mahoney,

In 1975, the Church Committee catalogued Harvey's ZR/RIFLE files and found the dossier of one Harold Meltzer, whom Harvey had described as "a resident of Los Angeles with a long criminal record." What the ZR/RIFLE memo did not say was that Meltzer was a longtime collaborator and sometime shooter for Rosselli. Who, if not Rosselli, would have introduced him and vouched for him to Harvey? It was yet another indication that the alliance between Harvey and Rosselli went far deeper than the one-shot joint venture to kill Castro. What sealed their relationship was a venomous hatred of the Kennedys, and their collaboration in the sensitive art of murder.[189]

And what Mahoney does not mention is that both FBN and FBI files linked the Mexican drug connection to Jack Ruby. Ruby's contacts with Mexican drugs are first reported in 1948, but seem to have been reactivated in 1963. At least one old collaborator of Meltzer in the Mexican drug traffic, Paul Roland Jones, contacted Ruby in Dallas just before the assassination.[190]

It is clear that throughout 1963, members like David Morales of the CIA’s Special Affairs Staff, designated to co-ordinate operations against Castro (including new assassination projects), maintained contact with Cuban and other enemies of the Kennedys. What has become clear only recently is that David Phillips, when he acquired his second role in the fall of 1963 as Chief of Cuban Operations in Mexico City, now answered in this capacity to the Special Affairs Staff.[191] Phillips was in effect rejoining the officers he had worked with on the Bay of Pigs in 1961, at which time he had been responsible for propaganda operations against the newly-created Fair Play for Cuba Committee.[192]

From about October 1 to October 9 Phillips made a quick trip, authorized by the Special Affairs Staff, to Washington and then Miami.[193] On October 1 the Mexico City CIA station also sent a cable directing that a diplomatic pouch, sent on October 1 to Washington, should be held in the registry until picked up by “Michael C. Choaden” (i.e. Phillips) presently TDY (temporary duty) HQS.”[194][195] The date October 1 catches our eye, inasmuch as it is the date of the alleged Oswald-Kostikov intercept. One is also struck by Phillips’ presence in the Miami JMWAVE station from October 7-9. There are reports that Rosselli, who had good standing in the JMWAVE station, met on two occasions in Miami in early October with Jack Ruby.[196]

Phillips’ trip coincides curiously with a significant change in the contents and handling of Oswald’s 201 file. Up to late September 1963, incoming documents about Oswald had been referred to the CI/OPS and SR/CI (Soviet Russia/Counterintelligence) desks.[197] But there was a new addressee for the next Oswald document, an FBI Report of September 24 from New Orleans about Oswald’s arrest in August 9 after distributing Fair Play for Cuba leaflets. This was “Austin Horn” of SAS/CI (replacing the usual SR/CI), whose name appears next to the date stamp “8 Oct 1963.” This exclusion of SR/CI, coupled with the initial exclusion of the report (entitled “Lee Harvey Oswald”) from Oswald’s 201 file, helps explain how an unwitting member of the SR/CI staff (Stefan Roll) could clear an outgoing cable that stated, falsely, that

“Latest HDQS info [on Oswald] was ODACID [state Department] report dated May 1962 [!] saying ODACID had determined Oswald is still US citizen and both he and his Soviet wife have exit permits and Dept State had given approval for their travel with their infant child to USA.[198]

Of the six officers responsible for drafting and signing this important cable, only one, Jane Roman of CI/LS (Counterintelligence/Liaison), had seen the incoming FBI report of September 24 that disproved their text. In Chapter III### we shall investigate the probability that this dishonest cable was part of a CIA/CI operation.

Who was this “Austin Horn” who was privileged to see documents on Oswald denied to those who were drafting cables about him? We shall postpone to a later chapter the possibility, as yet still uncertain, that “Austin Horn” may in fact be David Phillips.

Whether he is or not, David Phillips is the one man who seems to cover all aspects of the CIA-Oswald operation and cover-up in 1963. David Phillips even had one friend, Gordon McLendon, in common with Jack Ruby. McLendon, a sometime intelligence officer and Dallas owner of radio stations, had known Phillips since both men were in their teens. (The two men would in the the 1970s join in forming the Association of Retired Intelligence Officers.) McLendon was close to two other wealthy men in Dallas who have attracted the attention of JFK researchers, Clint Murchison and Bedford Wynne.[199]

What has not yet been explained is why McLendon, whom Ruby described as one of his six closest friends, embarked on a sudden and surprising trip with his family to Mexico City in the fall of 1963.[200]

Enjoy!

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From Weberman's site, Nodule 24.........

DE TORRES AND GARRISON

The CIA reported: "BERNARDO DE TORRES, who according to a cleared, willing, police contact is a detective hired by Garrison. Contact feels certain, but cannot prove, both BERNARDO and his brother CHARLES, also detective, were in New Orleans during last year. Again, request Headquarters instructions as a to whether further feelers should be put out, through AMOTS or other Station Cuban assets, to attempt learn more about his activities."

BERNARDO DE TORRES encouraged New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison to spend hundreds of futile hours searching for Cuban exile Manuel Gonzalez, who had arrived in the United States in 1964. On one occasion, the District Attorney sought out and questioned Miguel Torres, a Cuban whose only connection to OSWALD was that he had lived one block away from him in New Orleans. [FBI 62-109060-4564; CIA 1228-513, 1227-512; Miami Herald 2.25.67 p2A] On March 13, 1967, the FBI reported that "MM T-1 an American citizen of Cuban descent, who has not been contacted a sufficient number of times to determine his reliability, claimed as follows: (4 paragraphs deleted) It is noted that BERNARDO DE TORRES has been described in the public press as a Cuban private investigator at Miami who has been assisting District Attorney James Garrison of New Orleans in the latter's investigation of the assassination. (Deleted)." [FBI 3.14.67 Miami Copies Destroyed 3.12.73] In 1972 HEMMING put former Los Angeles Mayor Sam Yorty in touch with CARLOS De TORRES.

DE TORRES AND THE LETELIER ASSASSINATION

BERNARDO De TORRES was called before a Federal Grand Jury in 1976 that was probing the Letelier murder. BERNARDO DE TORRES had attended a meeting with Hector Duran, Bay of Pigs Brigade member Armando Lopez Estrada, the head of DINA (the Chilean secret police) and American Richard Townley, during which the assassination of Orlando Letelier was discussed. [Covert Action July 1978]

OTERO TRIES TO MAKE A DEAL WITH THE FBI

In March 1977, Rolando Otero was interviewed in prison awaiting sentencing. The FBI reported on the interview:

"On March 1, 1977, (deleted) interviewed at (deleted) where incarcerated waiting sentence following his conviction on state charges relating to bombing incident in Miami, Florida, area. Present during interview with Otero were and (Deleted) . These attorneys were present in Okaloosa County, Florida, this date in connection with several motions filed in Circuit Court, Shalimar, relating to Otero's state conviction. Otero is scheduled to be sentenced on state charge on March 17, 1977, at Shalimar, Florida.

"The presence of these attorneys during interview was at their request.

"Attorneys for Rolando Otero stated prior to the interview that they had no knowledge as to specifics which Otero was to provide FBI relating to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

"During the interview with Otero, who spoke broken English, Otero alleged that he had information regarding the Kennedy assassination. Otero declined to provide any specific information regarding this matter.

"Otero advised that it was his personal opinion that 'CIA, FBI and Secret Service at a high level were involved in the assassination.' When Otero was asked for specifics as a to this opinion, he declined to furnish such information. Throughout interview, Otero alleged that he had information concerning the Kennedy assassination that would 'embarrass FBI.'

"Initially, Otero advised that he would be willing to testify before the HSCA, headed by Mr. Sprague, concerning the 'concrete' information he had on the Kennedy assassination. Rolando Otero's condition for this testimony was for his state conviction on bombing charges to be dismissed by the FBI, or government intervention on his behalf with Florida authorities.

"Otero was informed that the FBI could not enter into such an agreement. During the later part of the interview with Otero he related that if this condition for his information was not met by the end of this week, he would then release information to the media on limited basis concerning the Kennedy assassination, and in turn provide similar, but more detailed, information to HSCA. He also claimed at the same time he would furnish other information relating to Cuban activities in South Florida and South America, which he alleged would be of embarrassment to the FBI.

"After the contradiction in his stated intentions in this matter were discussed with (deleted) it was determined that he initially meant to advise that he would be willing to withhold information he claimed to have concerning the Kennedy assassination, in view of its alleged embarrassment to the Bureau, if the FBI would intervene with state authorities concerning the state charge, resulting in the dismissal of the state charge against him, otherwise he would provide the information he had in his possession to both the media and the HSCA.

"At this point, Otero, with his attorneys present, was specifically and unequivocally advised that the FBI wanted him to furnish any and all information he might have relating to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and other matters to the HSCA, as a was his stated 'desire' and that the FBI would have no part in his withholding such information.

"After this point was made clear to Otero, he advised that in view of this he would be willing to testify before the HSCA without condition concerning information relating to the Kennedy assassination, the specifics of which he declined to furnish the FBI.

"At the conclusion of interview with Otero he and his attorneys were informed that Otero's stated desire to testify before the HSCA would be furnished by FBI to appropriate authorities." [FBI 62-117290-454X19]

A few weeks later Rolando Otero told a Miami reporter: "The killers of Kennedy are alive and living in Miami." The testimony of Rolando Otero to the HSCA was classified, although researcher Dick Russell obtained a copy: "They had a rumor in the Cuban community, like Kennedy was a Communist, he's against us, he's messing up the whole cause. Before the Kennedy assassination they called a meeting of these people, and they said they had to be ready because there was going to be a coup d'etat in the United States." [Russell, Man Who Knew Too Much p538]

Rolando Otero told Gaeton Fonzi that Cuban exile Juan Adames (HEMMING claimed the name was Juan Aldama Abreu) told him that BERNARDO De TORRES had some connection with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Gaeton Fonzi: "From Otero I got the very detailed contention that, when both were in the Broward County jail, Adames said that BERNARDO DE TORRES personally knew OSWALD."

MEMO June 15, 1977

TO: Tannenabaum

FROM: Fonzi

Re: Adames & Otero interviews.

Enclosed are rough notes of my latest interviews with Juan Adames and Rolando Otero. This was my second interview with both men and the first with Adames where I identified myself and my affiliation with the Committee. The additional information developed in both interviews strengthens my opinion that we have a possibly significant new area of investigation which should be given attention.

Here are some of the important points developed in the interview with Adames:

- His experience in the Dominican Republic revolution reveal Mitch Werbell to be an extremely important character in that operation whose connections go up to the highest levels of the military-intelligence community.

- Werbell had very close association with Paul Bethel. I have always thought Bethel to be a key figure. He was press attache in the Havana Embassy and was probably the CIA's liaison-coordinator with anti-Castro groups in Miami. He was one of the first persons Veciana was told to see when he arrived here. Bethel is a very close friend of DAVID PHILLIPS whom, Bethel himself told me, was working covert propaganda in Havana...

- That De TORRES himself does have past experience in assassination involvement.

- That Werbell does have a special relationship with Andrew St. George, and that our assumption about that relationship (see Memo May 22, 1977) may be right.

- Although we get a partial corroboration of what Otero had told us Adames had told him about De TORRES having some connection with the Kennedy assassination, from Adames we don't get the information that De TORRES was involved or that he was on the scene on November 22, 1963. That's specifically why I went back to Otero. From him I again got the very detailed contention that Adames told him, when both were in the Broward County Jail, that De TORRES was involved in the Kennedy assassination and that he personally knew LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

Otero said he would be willing to testify under oath to that. Corroborating to some extent Otero's story is what Otero's girlfriend Kathy told Otero's lawyer, Bob Rosenblatt, a few weeks ago. She said that during the brief period that Adames was out on bond, he came to see her regarding possibly helping Otero. However, without being asked about it, Kathy volunteered that Adames seemed interested in what Otero might have told her about this fellow De TORRES.

Conversely, Adames says nothing to us about meeting Otero in the Broward County jail (though records indicate they were there at the same time) or his visit to Kathy. I didn't want to question him about it specifically because I did not want to reveal to him our lead to him was Otero, and if we ever get them both under oath, that could be a significant point to put some pressure on.

I tend to put more validity to Otero's information since we have made no deals with him and he has nothing to gain, as a far as a I can see now, from feeding us misinformation. There's a possibility as a far as a I can read it now, that Adames may be weighing the value of his information, holding back to see if the situation will develop where he can get the best price or deal for it.

Adames is undoubtedly a con man and there is a risk in using him that he will sell out, but, on the other hand, he could be of immense value in developing the details of De TORRES possible involvement. On that assumption, I told him I would make an effort to expedite his situation to either a work release program or parole. This week he has been transferred to the Broward County Prison, which may be preliminary to placing him on the work release program. I'm checking on that, but I would like him to think, it's so, that we had something to do with it. Adames, as a a risk to society, is minimal or nil. I feel we should make an effort to expedite his situation in order to use him most effectively, or at least do something to make him feel we were instrumental in what is going to happen to him anyway.

I also feel we should perhaps consider at some point a subpoena duces tecum for De TORRES regarding those photo he allegedly has in his bank vault. I think we should combine it with a 24-hour surveillance program when he gets it. [NARA HSCA 180-10092-10141]

Juan Adames, was incarcerated for possession of a forged driver license. Gaeton Fonzi elaborated: "Otero said his source had told him that OSWALD was sent to Russia as a CIA agent. The decision to kill Kennedy was made before OSWALD'S return to the United States. Most of the final planning and coordination took place at meetings held at the Dallas YMCA building. BERNARDO De TORRES posed as a photographer in Dealey Plaza on November 22." Gaeton Fonzi checked with Juan Adames and was told, "I would not put anything past De TORRES since I know that's the kind of business he's involved in. He led me to believe he had some photographs from down there, but I don't know from when. He said they were in a bank vault. The more I think about it, if De TORRES was involved in anyway, Mitch Werbell must have been." [Fonzi, Last Investigation Ch. 28] HEMMING 1994: " Juan Adames worked with Lucian Conein. I did time with Otero. Somebody tried to poison him in the Okalusa County jail. They gave the poison to the wrong guy and almost killed him. Otero can tell you something about Dealey Plaza. De TORRES was military leader of the Brigade in the 1970's. He worked with Anslinger and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics for years. Him and his brother. They worked around Gene Marshall. He is still operational. He had dealt with people like Adames before. De TORRES don't read this stuff. Unless someone in the government brings it to his attention and that ain't Fonzi's fault or your fault. I could give a rat's ass for Adames. His case officer will fry. De TORRES did surveillance of OSWALD in New Orleans and in Texas, Dealey Plaza. He don't sue. If you use De TORRES name, the son-of-a-bitch will kill you. You put that kind of a guy's name on [the Net], the son-of-a-bitch, and you're dead. You wanna be a martyr? This guy is a xxxxing professional killer. He won't do it personally. He has people that work for him. He'll wack your xxxxing ass in a heartbeat. I wouldn't bandy his name about. Fonzi didn't use his name, neither did Propper, a former U.S. Attorney. [Propper used the name.] I guess they're all cowardly xxxxs anyway. Maybe you're the only one with any balls? De TORRES is afraid of me. He think's I'm even more evil than he is. I made him a partner in Parabellum, and got him on Werbell's payroll. That's a long story. It has nothing to do with JFK yet. The HSCA wouldn't give him immunity, so he wouldn't talk."

In March 1977 Rolando Otero was sentenced to 40 years. Released from prison in the late 1980's, he attempted to extort money from his lawyers by threatening to bomb them. State and federal warrants were issued for his arrest. As of 1996 Rolando Otero was a fugitive. HEMMING intimated that the De TORRES brothers might have been individuals who offed many JFK witnesses: "I don't see people on the periphery, people that don't have a direct link. People that couldn't prove xxxx, they just fill in blanks, what with the nasty FBI running around talking to everyone's dog, putting xxxx together, who would feel threatened? Not the real shooters. They could give a xxxx. But who's out there that feels threatened that may have been running dope, or doing all kinds of crazy xxxx, who is somebody now. Who is somebody now? Who is somebody in the xxxxing community now? I know one of them made money in the dope trade and turned that money around and used it against Fidel again. The Contras. And these people live comfortably. Their associates are politically prominent. They could erroneously say, 'This guy could cause us a problem.' There are cold-blooded motherxxxxers out there that do this xxxx for practice. It don't mean nothing to them. I mean these people love their work. Good thing the American people don't know about it.

"It depends on how the job was done. Shooting a guy with a rifle - that's Cuban. Karate chop, Jim Koethe, he's linked to me cause he interviewed me in 1963 when I went through Dallas. [Koethe, a reporter, was killed by a karate chop to the neck in Dallas on September 21, 1964. His murder remained unsolved.] If you're talking about someone who had an apparent heart attack or something, those are the Cuban technicians."

ANALYSIS

BERNARDO De TORRES fit HEMMING'S description although I have no evidence De TORRES ever committed a crime. The CIA reported: "In conversation Subject stated he is private detective employed by U.S. Government and is sales supervisor for Central and South American of Defense System International. Has suspicious visitors and there are rumors that he and brother involved in illegal activity." [CIA 201-295,213] END OF NODULE.

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  • 1 month later...
Murgado now claims he was Angelo, Bernardo de Torres was Leopoldo and Leon was Oswald. Joan Mellen adds: "Angelo had been betrayed by a companion he believed he could trust, a man not so much dedicated to the overthrow of Fidel Castro, as Angelo believed, as involved in arranging for Oswald to be blamed for the murder of the President, what the Odio visit was really about."

The key question concerns why Murgado has waited so long before coming forward with this story. I suppose it could be argued that he did not because he was scared of Bernardo de Torres. However, Torres is still alive and other witnesses have suggested that he is the key reason why they have not told the full story.

Robert Charles-Dunne has suggested that Murgado’s story may be an attempt to discredit Joan Mellen’s book. I find this argument convincing, especially as Tim Gratz has been so keen to push the credibility of Murgado’s evidence.

The three best sources on the Silvia Odio story are Gaeton Fonzi, The Last Investigation (pages 108-116 and 250-259), Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much (308-311) and Tony Summers, The Kennedy Conspiracy (296-301 and 446-447). All three of these authors interviewed her and came to the conclusion she was telling the truth. G. Robert Blakey also points out that the House Select Committee on Assassinations also believed that she was telling the truth (The Plot to Kill the President, pages 162-165).

I agree that Silvia Odio is telling the truth. This is why:

(1) Her story is corroborated by her sister, Annie Odio, who was in the apartment when they had the visit from Leopoldo, Angel and Leon Oswald.

(2) The day after the visit Silvia received a phone call from Leopoldo. He told her that Leon was a former Marine and that he was an expert marksman. He added that Leon had said “we Cubans, we did not have the guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs”.

(3) Silvia told the story of Leopoldo, Angel and Leon to her father Amador in a letter a few days after the meeting took place. The letter did not survive but his reply has. In it Amador confirms that she has good reason to be worried by these three men who are not known to him.

(4) Silvia told her story to her psychiatrist, Dr. Burton Einspruch before the assassination took place.

(5) It is also believed Silvia told her story to Father McChann, a Catholic priest in Dallas. See William Kelly’s post on this here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5347

(6) Silvia and Annie both identified Lee Harvey Oswald as Leon when his photograph appeared on the television following the assassination of JFK. However, they did not go to the police with this information. Silvia’s sister, Sarita, told her friend Lucille Connell about these events. She in turn told a friend who passed this information onto the FBI.

In her article for the Key West Citizen (2nd September, 2005) Joan Mellen claims that she is the first person in print to name Bernardo De Torres as Leopoldo. However, as long-term members will know, he was named on this Forum sometime ago. This information also appears on my webpage on Torres. Maybe that is why it was removed from the Goggle database for so long (it is now 1st out of 1,430,000 pages).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm

Of course, I also name Edwin Collins and not Angel Murgado as Angelo.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKcollinsE.htm

My page on Silvia Odio is also ranked first out of 269,000 pages. I have placed a photograph of Bernardo De Torres and Edwin Collins taken in 1963. If she surfs the net she will no doubt come across this page and picture. Maybe she could contacts me and identify Leopoldo and Angel as Torres and Collins.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKodioS.htm

John it is certainly an interesting story that has developed in front of us in the past few months. Although the Mellen story in the Solares Hill supplement to the Key West Citizen states that the three traveled together it is my understanding that the version in her book is consistent with what Angel Murgado says: that he and deTorres went to the Odio apartment alone and Oswald was already there when they arrived.

If the story in the Citizen correctly summarized her interview with Mr. Murgado, why would she change it for her book?

What is so interesting is that a Forum provides dates and a chronology of the way information is released. The postings on this Forum will show that Robert Charles-Dunne, Pat Speer and myself were highly suspicious of Murgado’s story from the beginning. We were not alone. I also received emails from several other researchers who shared these views.

My own view was this was part of a campaign to discredit Joan Mellen’s book. That it would be revealed later that Murgado was not telling the truth. I emailed Joan expressing these views. I also communicated them to two other authors who were working on books about the JFK assassination who intended to use Murgado as a source.

According to Tim, Joan has two different versions of the Silvia Odio incident. One in the article and one in the book. The account in the article is consistent with Odio’s own account. The one in the book contradicts Odio’s account.

In other words, the article exposes Bernardo De Torres as someone who helped set up Oswald. That is also my belief and this is reflected in what I had to say about him on my webpage. However, the revised story that appears on this Forum, provides an alibi for De Torres. According to the new story, De Torres was only playing a social visit and like Murgado did not know Oswald. The main beneficiary of this new story is Bernardo De Torres. I suspect that he is the true motivator behind this development.

Bernardo De Torres is an interesting character. His name has rarely appeared in any book as being involved in the assassination. Donald Freed (Death in Washington, page 195) and Taylor Branch & Eugene Propper (Labyrinth, page 185) suggest he might have been involved in the killing of Orlando Letelier. Peter Dale Scott (Deep Politics, page 105) provides evidence that he had links to the CIA and the drug trade.

William Turner (Rearview Mirror, page 143) points out he turned up as a disinformation agent in the Jim Garrison inquiry and that an informant told the HSCA that he was in Dallas on the day JFK was assassinated and had pictures of “Dealey Plaza in a safe-deposit box”. These points are also repeated in James DiEugenio article, Rose Cheramie” that appeared in The Assassinations (page 236).

However, Bernardo De Torres was not looked at in any depth until the publication of Larry Hancock’s Someone Would Have Talked (pages 221-222). It was Larry who revealed that De Torres used the name of Carlos. If that is the case, is Bernardo De Torres the “Carlos” who appears in Gaeton Fonzi’s The Last Investigation (232-241)? Rolando Otero told Fonzi that Carlos was posing as a photographer in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963. Otero also claimed that Carlos was one of a five men team from Miami who assassinated JFK. Fonzi claims that Carlos was linked to Frank Sturgis and Gerry Hemming via the Anti-Communist Brigade. He also had links to Ken Burnstine, a South Florida real estate developer and Mitch WerBell, the arms dealer.

Fonzi also points out that Carlos turned up in New Orleans to volunteer their services in Jim Garrison’s investigation. Fonzi adds that the HSCA discovered that the CIA planted a number of agents on Garrison’s staff.

Another informant, Ten-One, claimed that Carlos and an associate fitted the description of “Angel” and “Leopoldo”. However, G. Robert Blakey stopped Fonzi from showing the picture of Carlos and his friend to Silvia Odio.

Carlos received a subpoena to testify before the HSCA. What Carlos did not know was that his telephone calls were being monitored. When these were checked it was discovered that one of his first calls after receiving the subpoena was to McLean, Virginia.

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I have been sent details by a journalist of another example of Google censorship.

Googling for images of Ukrainian opposition leader (and president designate) Victor Yushchenko brings up ONLY pictures of him before he was poisoned with dioxin and suffered disfiguring chloracne. Like so:

http://tinyurl.com/6jorl

Googling <yushchenko, poison> (and obvious variations) or <yushchenko, dioxin> returns zero results.

Yet there have probably been more pictures reproduced of him with his poisoned face than without. Some of them actually turn up on pages in the normal google web search function.

What's going on here? I've wracked my brains and can't think of any answer. A simple failure to spider the appropriate images doesn't seem possible -- but I can't think of a human motive for deselecting these images either.

I do recall, however, several recent allegations of CIA censorship of the google engine, which I can gladly tell you about -- I assumed at the time that these were just mad claims, but now I'm not so sure.

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: TORRES ALVAREZ, BERNARDO GONZALEZ

Sources: CIA 84, p. 2; CIA 1227-512, p. 3; CIA 1228-513, p. 6; Plot or Politics, James, p. 165; Counterplot, Epstein, p. 40; HSCA Reel 6, Box 4, Folder B (AMKW 5)

Mary's

Comments: A Cuban exile living in Miami. Once helped to guard JFK during a speaking appearance in Miami. Torres worked with Jim Garrison on his investigation of the Kennedy assassination and said Garrison's investigation would make the Warren Commission investigation look pale. Worked for Military Armament Corp., one of Mitch WerBell's companies (according to Gaeton Fonzi). (Also see De Torres)

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Edited by Robert Howard
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De Torres set up a lot of hits, and the problem was that they mostly favored Fidel's people. He approached me to take out Torriente for $25K, but I said that domestic work on noncombatants wasn't my line -- and moreover, I questioned exactly what was, and who had, the beef against this guy ??

He did NOT call Sylvia ever, and Angelo never hinted at same. Mellen alleges that the call was made behind Murgado's back. Who is the source. Not one of the compartmented guys & gals on the Odio matter have ever talked to anybody, save their "cutouts" to RFK's teams. These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me [and on a limited basis]. They didn't even want to speak with others they knew or suspected to be amongst the compartmented elements. And they dogmatically and absolutely refused to talk to talk to any reporter, writer -- even if the party was from the CIA/I.G.s office, and especially not with any CIA elements !!

So where does this "Bernie called back to Sylvia" really come from ??!!

The inside scoop of Sylvia, et al. and especially any relationship with a young priest -- can't be clearly answered, not by her or the others. And moreover, she wouldn't be interested in finding out either !! Even when people believe that they are participating in something patriotic and noble -- when the final results are kept secret, most non-operators feel used -- and/or betrayed. They have a hard time grasping that it is safer for all concerned -- NOT to know intricate details. However, they sure as hell feel that it is not normal when when the "Mushroom" syndrome arrives.

De Torres taking on a JFK type task, not likely -- even if it was a logistics, commo, or coordinator tasking, he likes living too well -- and he would avoid an Op which either might go sour, or as happens in the drug trade, you expect to be paid in Silver [Plata] but in the end you are paid in Plomo [lead] !!

When an asset doesn't have a clue as to what is really going on, later on and down the road, they lose interest in finding out !! Discovering that you have been "used" is a bitter experience.

[Twyman shed tears when he got that kind of feeling about me and the teams -- while I thought he was trying to say: "...welcome home soldier...you've earned it" -- but that just wasn't the case at all !!]]

Mellen wouldn't take NO for an answer, and just couldn't [or wouldn't] comprehend that most of these folks have no interest in rehashing the unknown/uncertain past. This is primarily due to a fear that: they will be linked to something bad, or worse, discover that they had been used like a goat. And they sure as hell don't want those close to them to discover their past [good or bad]. It causes rifts, jealousies, and recriminations within the extended family -- especially when there exist distinct opposing beliefs.

Angelo is of the same mindset as the rest, and if I hadn't believed that it was time to set history straight, and give some overdue credit -- I would have never pounded him to open up just a little bit. Only on two occasions has he ever done so. Now look at what the response has been. A bunch of "Bookies"; who have never been there nor done that. "Talking the Talk, without ever having even been close to The Walk !!"

Don't bother asking a veteran grunt; they don't talk "outside of class" -- and operators -- If you ever find a real one, he/she won't be a conversant one.

That is just the way it is -- I learned that at a very young age, and have since instilled much of it in my kids.

Most of what is in print, including what is at NARA is "Legend" and "backstop" files !! CYA flows through the blood of the Intel Community -- when it clots, we get 9/11s !!

I have taken this quote from another thread. I think it raises a lot of issues. As Gerry points out, what motive would Angel Murgado have for coming forward with this story. As Gerry says: "When an asset doesn't have a clue as to what is really going on, later on and down the road, they lose interest in finding out !! Discovering that you have been "used" is a bitter experience."

Gerry, would you care to tell us more about De Torres' "hits"? Did any involve people who had stories to tell about the assassination? Is it possible he was involved in the death of Ed Collins?

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John wrote:

My own view was this was part of a campaign to discredit Joan Mellen’s book. That it would be revealed later that Murgado was not telling the truth. I emailed Joan expressing these views. I also communicated them to two other authors who were working on books about the JFK assassination who intended to use Murgado as a source.

According to Tim, Joan has two different versions of the Silvia Odio incident. One in the article and one in the book. The account in the article is consistent with Odio’s own account. The one in the book contradicts Odio’s account.

John, as I have stated earlier, should it be determined that Murgado lied about being Angel, I can hardly see how that would discredit Professor Mellen's book, unless she had reason to believe Angelo was lying to her, e.g. by his demeanor, for instance.

However, she has published two different versions of the Murgado story. One version appears not only in the Key West Citizen article but also in the review copy of her book. She corrected that version for the actual book after Mr. Murgado's son called her attention to the error.

Gerry Hemming who attended the interview Mellen had with Murgado has stated on this Forum that Murgado clearly told her that he did not travel to Dallas with Oswald. And yet, incredibly, the account she put in the Key West Citizen article and in the review copy of the book is consistent with Odio's version. Gerry also states that she neither tape-recorded the interview nor took contemporaneous notes.

Amaury Murgado, although not present at the interview, states his father confirms Gerry's version of what Murgado said. I believe this is also what he told David Talbot.

If this version of events is correct, Professor Mellen got a rather important part of the story wrong when she wrote it.

It will be interesting to hear what Professor Mellen says about this. If she should claim that what Mr. Murgado told her in Miami is consistent with what appears in the review copy of the book, it then means that she has published in the final book a story in which the witness changed a very important part of that story and she does not bother to inform the reader of that change. Certainly that is something a reader would want to know (and expect to be told).

When he gets the final copy of the book, Amaury Murgado is going to review with his father the section on his father to determine if there are any other errors. He has promised to advise forum members of the results of that review.

I know Professor Mellen spent years interviewing almost 1,000 witnesses for the book as well as years writing it. It is unfortunate that this "incident" may indeed call in to question the accuracy of the book, but that is NOT the result of some sinister conspiracy as you suggest.

Note that the above has nothing to do with whether the main story Angelo told Mellen is correct or not. But even if it should be demonstrated (as you suggest) that that story is incorrect, that, I submit, is no reflection on Professor Mellen. What is troubling is that, apparently, what she first wrote is inconsistent with what he told her and the incorrect version would have been so published in the book had not Mr. Murgardo seen it on the Forum and called it to her attention.

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Don't bother asking a veteran grunt; they don't talk "outside of class" -- and operators -- If you ever find a real one, he/she won't be a conversant one.

I am sure this is usually true. However, there are times when you do reveal a great deal. For example:

De Torres set up a lot of hits, and the problem was that they mostly favored Fidel's people. He approached me to take out Torriente for $25K, but I said that domestic work on noncombatants wasn't my line - and moreover, I questioned exactly what was, and who had, the beef against this guy ??

He did NOT call Sylvia ever, and Angelo never hinted at same. Mellen alleges that the call was made behind Murgado's back. Who is the source. Not one of the compartmented guys & gals on the Odio matter have ever talked to anybody, save their "cutouts" to RFK's teams. These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me [and on a limited basis]. They didn't even want to speak with others they knew or suspected to be amongst the compartmented elements. And they dogmatically and absolutely refused to talk to talk to any reporter, writer -- even if the party was from the CIA/I.G.s office, and especially not with any CIA elements !!

Isn't this an example of you talking outside of class?

How can you be so sure that De Torres did not call back Sylvia?

I am also interested in your comment "These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me". Who are these folks? Why would they only talk to you?

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Don't bother asking a veteran grunt; they don't talk "outside of class" -- and operators -- If you ever find a real one, he/she won't be a conversant one.

I am sure this is usually true. However, there are times when you do reveal a great deal. For example:

De Torres set up a lot of hits, and the problem was that they mostly favored Fidel's people. He approached me to take out Torriente for $25K, but I said that domestic work on noncombatants wasn't my line - and moreover, I questioned exactly what was, and who had, the beef against this guy ??

He did NOT call Sylvia ever, and Angelo never hinted at same. Mellen alleges that the call was made behind Murgado's back. Who is the source. Not one of the compartmented guys & gals on the Odio matter have ever talked to anybody, save their "cutouts" to RFK's teams. These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me [and on a limited basis]. They didn't even want to speak with others they knew or suspected to be amongst the compartmented elements. And they dogmatically and absolutely refused to talk to talk to any reporter, writer -- even if the party was from the CIA/I.G.s office, and especially not with any CIA elements !!

Isn't this an example of you talking outside of class?

How can you be so sure that De Torres did not call back Sylvia?

I am also interested in your comment "These folks refused to discuss these matters with anybody else but me". Who are these folks? Why would they only talk to you?

I wanted to ask any and all Forum members (James Richards?) if they have made any perusal of DP Photo archives to see if anyone has looked for a photographer who "even looks like he could be de Torres 'even wearing a disguise' ." I have, without any luck. But I am beginning to wonder if this another wild goose chase. Anybody?

Edited by Robert Howard
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