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Thursday, Jun 14, 2012 06:00 PM EDT

National Archives: No new JFK docs

Bowing to the CIA, the National Archives says it won't release 1,100 secret assassination documents in 2013

By Jefferson Morley


Topics: JFKkennedy_rect-460x307.jpgPresident and Mrs. Kennedy ride through Dallas moments before Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963. (Credit: Reuters)

Acquiescing to CIA demands for secrecy, the National Archives announced Wednesday that it will not release 1,171 top-secret Agency documents related to the assassination of President Kennedy in time for the 5oth anniversary of JFK’s death in November 2013.

“Is the government holding back crucial JFK documents,” asked Russ Baker in a WhoWhatWhy piece that Salon published last month. The answer, unfortunately, is yes. In a letter released this week, Gary Stern, general counsel for the National Archives and Record Administration, said the Archives would not release the records as part of the Obama administration’s ongoing declassification campaign. Stern cited CIA claims that “substantial logistical requirements” prevented their disclosure next year.

“This is a deeply disappointing decision that deprives everyone of a fuller understanding of the JFK assassination,” said Larry Sabato, a political scientist at the University of Virginia, who is writing a book about the impact of JFK’s assassination on American politics. “The 50th anniversary of that terrible event is the perfect opportunity to shed more light on the violent removal of a president. This adds to the widely held public suspicion that the government may still be hiding some key facts about President Kennedy’s murder.”

The records, requested by the nonprofit Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC), will remain secret until at least 2017, when the 1992 JFK Records Act mandates public release of all assassination files in the government’s possession. (Full disclosure: AARC president Jim Lesar is my attorney in a Freedom of Information lawsuit seeking JFK records from the CIA.)

Among those seeking expedited disclosure were Notre Dame Law School professor G. Robert Blakey, who served as chief counsel for Congress’ JFK investigation in the late 1970s. In an email he accused the NARA of using “bureaucratic jargon to obfuscate its failure to vindicate the public interest in transparency, a goal touted no less than by the Obama administration. “

“It beggars the imagination to assert that documents (or portions thereof) can only be released in 2017, but not 2013,” said independent scholar Max Holland in an email. “I can understand a 100-year argument, in order to protect the identity of confidential sources (say a spy in Castro’s Politburo who said he didn’t do it); a 100-year rule would protect him or her. But 54 years versus 50? Doesn’t make sense … While it is true that JFK assassination is the most declassified event in U.S. history, in some respects NARA has done a poor job of carrying out the letter, spirit and intent of the JFK Act.”

The Archives’ decision comes as two former CIA officers have gone public with the unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that Cuban leader Fidel Castro had advance knowledge of JFK’s assassination in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. In a piece published in the Daily Beast this week, retired CIA officer Glenn Carle claimed that “the Cuban dictator knew of Lee Harvey Oswald’s intention to kill President Kennedy.” Carle also defended a deceased CIA colleague, David Phillips, from allegations of JFK conspiracy theorists that he connived in JFK’s death.

The still-secret CIA records could clarify the issue. The records include more than 600 pages of material on the career of Phillips, the chief of the Agency’s anti-Castro operations in 1963. Phillips oversaw the surveillance of accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City six weeks before Kennedy was killed. Antonio Veciana, an anti-Castro Cuban who worked for the CIA in the 1960s, told congressional investigators in 1976 that he saw an Agency officer whom he knew as “Maurice Bishop” with Oswald two months before JFK was killed. At the time, the CIA unequivocally denied that Phillips had ever used that name. In the Daily Beast article, Carle, a colleague of Phillips, admitted what the Agency has long denied: that Phillips had used the name “Maurice Bishop.”

A CIA spokesman said the Agency declined to comment on Carle’s claims.

Phillips, who died in 1988, told conflicting stories about what he knew of Oswald before JFK’s murder, but always rejected accusations he was involved in the assassination itself. Phillips may have been sensitive about such allegations because, unbeknownst to JFK investigators, he had been involved in another high-profile political assassination while working for the CIA. In 1999, the nonprofit National Security Archive obtained Agency records revealing that Phillips, as a senior CIA official in 1970, had orchestrated the murder of a Chilean general on behalf of the Nixon White House.

NARA had originally said the 1,171 CIA documents would be reviewed for release. In 2010, assistant archivist Michael Kurtz told a public hearing in Washington that the JFK records would be included in the Obama administration’s ongoing declassification campaign.

The idea was popular with the public. As Baker reported, NARA

, on its online Open Government Forum, for suggestions from the public about what it could do to create greater transparency. The #1 most popular idea?
Get those Kennedy records out
—before Nov. 22, 2013, the fiftieth anniversary of the Dallas tragedy.

In his letter to the AARC, Stern said that Kurtz “misspoke.” The Archives, he explained, tries “to balance historical impact, public interest, and extent of other government agency involvement [emphasis added] in order to manage government-wide declassification resource constraints as efficiently and effectively as possible.”

In this case, the evident public and scholarly interest in JFK disclosure was outweighed by the CIA’s desire to keep ancient but still-sensitive records out of public view.

“After five decades it is ridiculous that information is still being withheld from the people whose taxes paid for it,” said Sabato.

Ridiculous but true: As the 50th anniversary of the Dallas tragedy approaches, the CIA officials are hiding information about the events that culminated in the death of the liberal president — and the National Archives is helping them get away with it.

Kathy C

Edited by Kathleen Collins
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If they still want documents to remain official secrets after all these years,if they think LHO is guilty,then what have they to hide.I doubt if they will ever reveal all the info on the JFK assassination.It could alter peoples perspectives about the Government and trust,for those few that still do trust their Government.

I certainly do not trust my Government,and have not done so for years.What with Dr David Kelly dying,and there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.I trust no Government.

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49 years after the Assassination and 20 some years after the FOIA, tptb still refuse to release a large number of assassination related documents.

This should be on the front page of every newspaper in the country. That is, if this country actually had a free press.

My hunch is this story will only be noted on Internets sites like this one.

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I think all people involved in some way with the Assassination are dead, except Marina Porter, Robert Oswald, and the Bushes. So why hide it? If we knew who planned this, who knew about this and who the shooters were -- nothing can happen to those people. They're dead. They're not coming back. Give us the infomation. But I bet George HW Bush and his worthless son are involved too. Maybe that's the hold up on these records. When George HW Bush dies, we still have his son, and those records won't be released as long as he lives. Obama has no power over the CIA -- that "Independent" Agency of the US. (I guess like the IRS.) President Kennedy had no power over the CIA also and paid the biggest price.

Kathy C

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Guest Tom Scully

So many bigger fish to fry, but "the community" almost universally seems of a mindset locked in time. The organizational, communication, lobbying, and legal abilities of those focused (exclusively ?) on petitioning / pressuring the federal government to release still classified, Kennedy Assassination related documents would best be shifted now to respond to the larger, graver issue, and I see no indication that this will happen.

IMO, compared to demanding accountability for this lawbreaking by the very officials who took an oath of office to "preserve and protect the constitution." the goal of release of Assassination related documents has been made a moot pursuit.

There is no rule of law now, and there are no constitutionally protected "rights" of the individual. At the very least, shift attention, discussion, and outrage to the far graver and imminent crisis. :

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/30/how_extremism_is_normalized/singleton/

Wednesday, May 30, 2012

......Here we have the Obama administration asserting what I genuinely believe, without hyperbole, is the most extremist government interpretation of the Bill of Rights I’ve heard in my lifetime — that the Fifth Amendment’s guarantee that the State cannot deprive you of your life without “due process of law” is fulfilled by completely secret, oversight-free “internal deliberations by the executive branch”...

We are not in Kansas, anymore. The times have changed and the brazen shredding of our protections, conducted in total secrecy, are the immediate crisis that must be confronted today, with all available resources, and I see no one ever willing to talk about, at least in this community. The criminals you are petitioning these days, are laughing at you. They are relieved that you keep your attention to and save your outrage for old abuses of authority.

I've been even more surprised that many here support what almost all of both houses of congress and the president have being doing under the convenient cloak of secret classification, to destroy the Bill of Rights protections.

Prioritize your attention and support in the hope of turning back the unprecedented attacks on our liberty, in the hope that there will be institutions more interested at some future date in observing and upholding the laws than they are now.

These are the first signs of progress, but it is doubtful the rulings of this federal judge will remain in force without mass insistence.:

NDAA Update: Another Legal Victory

A federal judge on Wednesday said that her earlier ruling on the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act applied to everyone, not just the plaintiffs in the case. She made the clarification in upholding a preliminary injunction that would block the military from indefinitely detaining American citizens it accused of supporting terrorists. Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges (above) is among the plaintiffs.

Posted on Jun 8, 2012

This is not a naive community trusting in the integrity of government, yet it seems to have turned a blind eye to an executive branch unchallenged by the house and senate as it deliberately did not charge several Americans it had tarred as "traitors" and "terrorists" because it cynically and unlawfully invented the reasoning that bringing criminal charges would accord legal protections that would interfere with the decision to assassinate them by drone attacks. When these assassinations of Americans were ordered and those orders were carried out, "the system: shifted from innocent until proven guilty, to "sentence carried out first, verdict to be rendered at some future date."

Despite this display of ultimate oath of office breaking criminality, nothing seemed to change. Many still believe that a government that would kill three U.S. citizens with total avoidance of due process as a feature of the strategy, all done in secret, and justified by still classified legal determinations, would then work to speed up the release of classified Assassination related documents.

They show us that it does not even require a constitutional amendment hurdle to empower the executive as an executioner of U.S. citizens, only the drafting of a secret legal opinion. They are not even promising not to order the extrajudicial execution of Americans on U.S. soil, but by and large, the focus of frustration and disappointment is over the lack of follow through on promises made more than three years ago by the man who promised the most open and classification free, presidential administration, in our nation's history.

Your belief that the president hasn't yet ordered the assassination of someone who you know or value should not cause you to delay in shifting your immediate demand for the declassification of the OLC "legal opinion" that is asserted by the executive to have legalized "execution first and verdict later!"

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Guest Tom Scully

Unless sufficient numbers commit to risking life and limb to turn this back, we are now in a permanent new era. The most transparent president ever, Obama, simply extends the illegal excesses TAKEN by the Bush administration, as will Obama's probable successor, just seven months from now, Willard Romney.

This is indicative of the present state of affairs. :



  1. thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/.../obama-tempts-fight-over-r...
    by Charlie Savage - in 911 Google+ circles - More by Charlie Savage Jan 4, 2012 – Obama Tempts Fight Over Recess Appointments. By CHARLIE SAVAGE. 5:41 p.m. | Updated President Obama's decision on Wednesday to ...

  2. Justice Dept. Defends Obama's Recess Appointments - NYTimes.com
    www.nytimes.com/.../justice-dept-memo-defends-obama-on-recess-...
    by Charlie Savage - in 911 Google+ circles - More by Charlie Savage Jan 12, 2012 – Defends Obama Recess Appointments. By CHARLIE SAVAGE. Published: January 12 ... Justice Department Memo on Recess Appointments ...

  3. Times Sues DOJ for Legal Memoranda - Courthouse News Service
    www.courthousenews.com/2012/04/26/45965.htm Apr 26, 2012 – MANHATTAN (CN) - New York Times reporter Charlie Savage sued the ... Presidents have traditionally not made recess appointments during ...


http://www.motherjon...t-include-your-

Opinion About Recess Appointments is "Eyes Only" -- And That Specifically Doesn't Include Your Eyes

—By Kevin Drum

| Fri Jun. 15, 2012

.......but Savage submitted a FOIA request for other legal opinions on this issue. This is not an issue of national security, just a legal skirmish between branches of government, but when OLC finally produced a 2004 opinion written by Jack Goldsmith, here's what it looked like:

https://www.document...memorandum.html

blog_recess_appointments_olc_opinion.jpg

The image above is what the NY Times was able to extract from the executive branch as a result of a recent FOIA lawsuit.

One of the only 11 unredacted lines contained in the three page memo is:

“Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.”

If you're young enough, consider choosing a life in a different country to pursue your dreams and to live with some reasonable assurance of rule of law, perhaps in Belize? Or indefinetly commit to non-violent acts of civil disobedience provocative enough to result in imprisonment or death, and to tirelessly organizing demonstrations and convincing others to participate. The disruptions must be non-violent but intense enough to impact the economy enough to provoke an intensely violent response from the corporatist government.

The corporatists in control have become brazen enough that it becomes more difficult by the day to impress a level of fear of the people's reaction to their consolidation of power sufficient to deter them in any meaningful way.

We know this because unlike the crime and coverup in 1963-64, they have been doing what they do, much more boldly and openly, and in lockstep, except for the occasional errant senator, congressman, or whistleblower. The whistleblowers are being prosecuted with an unprecedented aggressiveness.

If you're old enough, consider living out your retirement years with some reasonable assurance of rule of law, perhaps in Belize?

That is it, it is as good as it gets. We've let it slip away. The hope once was that the release of Assassination documents would result in exposure, prosecutions, and positive change in the way the government is accountable to the people.

If every bit of information related to the Assassination was released tomorrow for all to examine, the problem now is to accept that we live under ever tightening, unaccountable tyranny. It is time to catch up with the realization that we now live in a police, corporatist state, and then any one of us could be its next victim,:

http://www.salon.com...d_frisk_crisis/

Saturday, Jun 16, 2012 02:00 PM EDT

....To understand this total of 684,330 — an increase of 14 percent from the 2010 figure –think of it like this: The number of black and Latino males detained by the NYPD in 2011 is more people than the total populations of North Dakota (672,591), Vermont (625,741), Wyoming (563,626), or America’s capital, Washington, DC (601,723). Taken together, these detainees would constitute America’s 19th largest city, nestled between Detroit, Michigan (717,777) and El Paso, Texas (649,121).

Of those stopped last year, 92 percent were male and 87 percent were African American or Latino. In essence, we are demonizing and criminalizing an entire generation of black and Latino teen boys and young men—many of them already mired in poverty, sub-par schools, and limited employment possibilities—for the rest of their lives. And before they even know what hit them. This is not just a New York problem. This is an American epidemic, a national crisis, where it has become acceptable for local police forces to view black and Latino males in inner cities as menaces to society, first, and as citizens, maybe....

.....Statistics reveal that nine out of 10 individuals who are stopped and frisked are never ticketed or arrested. Though by law, police must have “reasonable suspicion” that a target is carrying a weapon in order to frisk them, no gun is retrieved in over 90 percent of the stops. The proportion of gun seizures to stops has fallen significantly—only 780 guns were confiscated last year, not much more than the 604 guns seized in 2003, when officers made 160,851 stops......

Edited by Tom Scully
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I agree with Tom Scully. If I have learned anything in 49 years of attempting to find the evidence in the murder of JFK, I have learned that my government is the threat. MLK had it right when he preached non-violence and it is long since past the time for Americans to rally for the rights given to each of us under the Constitution. Today we are paralyzed by political ideology, where we hide in an attempt to find America. I'm sorry, that train left the station many decades ago.

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The first article I saw about this:

http://www.examiner....-records-secret

was a mostly neutral description of the Archives reversal on release of the materials, other than a short scolding of the Obama administration:

"Kurtz' promise to process the secret JFK related documents fulfilled President Obama's expressed desire that his administration be the most open in history. Today's reversal to release these records defeats President Obama's pledge that his has be the most open administration in history."

I searched for other articles on the web at the time without success.

A couple of days later the more high-profile Salon.com article came out:

http://www.salon.com...docs/singleton/

which IMO obscures the issue with "Cuba did it" disinfo and the curious statement "While it is true that JFK assassination is the most declassified event in U.S. history, in some respects NARA has done a poor job of carrying out the letter, spirit and intent of the JFK Act."

While I tend to agree with many of the cynical opinions expressed in this thread, I see some potential usefulness in this news story. It clearly shows the government is still hiding things, and give a good opportunity to ask "lone nutters" exactly why details are still classified if the murder of JFK was the result of nothing more than nutty Oswald firing a few rounds with a cheap rifle.

Edited by Daniel Meyer
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I don't understand the surprise concerning this issue. Why on earth would the perps allow the public to see with utmost possible clarity what they've planned, sanctioned and executed lol? We are asking the CIA to release documents regarding an incident that they themselves played one of the largest roles in actualizing. While I am sure it is possible for the documents to be released, I am not sure exactly how it would happen, perhaps some 3rd world revolution (of course, the US Establishment made sure well that wouldn't happen in the future in the 6-7th decades, and with PsyOps it is not difficult to shift people's attention and focus). And this is only JFK Sr....

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I don't understand the surprise concerning this issue. Why on earth would the perps allow the public to see with utmost possible clarity what they've planned, sanctioned and executed lol? We are asking the CIA to release documents regarding an incident that they themselves played one of the largest roles in actualizing. While I am sure it is possible for the documents to be released, I am not sure exactly how it would happen, perhaps some 3rd world revolution (of course, the US Establishment made sure well that wouldn't happen in the future in the 6-7th decades, and with PsyOps it is not difficult to shift people's attention and focus). And this is only JFK Sr....

I concur

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  • 2 weeks later...

The first article I saw about this:

http://www.examiner....-records-secret

was a mostly neutral description of the Archives reversal on release of the materials, other than a short scolding of the Obama administration:

"Kurtz' promise to process the secret JFK related documents fulfilled President Obama's expressed desire that his administration be the most open in history. Today's reversal to release these records defeats President Obama's pledge that his has be the most open administration in history."

I searched for other articles on the web at the time without success.

A couple of days later the more high-profile Salon.com article came out:

http://www.salon.com...docs/singleton/

which IMO obscures the issue with "Cuba did it" disinfo and the curious statement "While it is true that JFK assassination is the most declassified event in U.S. history, in some respects NARA has done a poor job of carrying out the letter, spirit and intent of the JFK Act."

While I tend to agree with many of the cynical opinions expressed in this thread, I see some potential usefulness in this news story. It clearly shows the government is still hiding things, and give a good opportunity to ask "lone nutters" exactly why details are still classified if the murder of JFK was the result of nothing more than nutty Oswald firing a few rounds with a cheap rifle.

B.A. Copeland wrote: "While I am sure it is possible for the documents to be released, I am not sure exactly how it would happen."

Short of sparking a revolution, the Constitution of the United States permits citizens to petition the government, and that is what we are doing. While most petitions fail, those with a solid foundation eventually succeed, and we believe that we might not be able to get a grand jury investigation of the assassination and related murders or get congress to full fill their oversight responsibility in regards to the JFK Act, but we can force the government to enforce the Act and release the records if the same effort that led to the passage of the JFK Act is applied to the government today.

You can do your part by simply signing the petition, do more by passing it around and posting it on your social networks and do even more by writing a short, one page letter to the National Archivist, Cas Sunstein, the White House Information Czar, the Prez and the members of the House Oversight Committee.

It's easy to sit back and be cynical when in the same amount of time you can actually do something that might make a difference.

Two years ago the National Archives promised the American public that it would release thousands of pages of still-secret JFK assassination records by the end of 2013. The National Archives, at the behest of the CIA, reneged on this promise. This is contrary to President Obama's pledge to have the most open administration in history and makes it impossible to have a full and open debate when the 50th anniversary of the assassination occurs in less than two years on November 22, 2013. A half-century of secrecy is enough. Free the JFK assassination records now!

Petition: Office of Information Policy and Regulatory Affairs: Release the secret JFK Assassination Records | Change.org

Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC)

AARC - Assassination Archives and Research Center

National Archives: No new JFK docs - Salon.com

JFKcountercoup

JFKcountercoup: NARA Continues Withholding of JFK Assassination Records

Edited by William Kelly
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Guest Tom Scully

Unless sufficient numbers commit to risking life and limb to turn this back, we are now in a permanent new era. The most transparent president ever, Obama, simply extends the illegal excesses TAKEN by the Bush administration, as will Obama's probable successor, just seven months from now, Willard Romney.

This is indicative of the present state of affairs. :


  1. Times Sues DOJ for Legal Memoranda - Courthouse News Service
    www.courthousenews.com/2012/04/26/45965.htm Apr 26, 2012 – MANHATTAN (CN) - New York Times reporter Charlie Savage sued the ... Presidents have traditionally not made recess appointments during ...

http://www.motherjon...t-include-your-

Opinion About Recess Appointments is "Eyes Only" -- And That Specifically Doesn't Include Your Eyes

—By Kevin Drum

| Fri Jun. 15, 2012

.......but Savage submitted a FOIA request for other legal opinions on this issue. This is not an issue of national security, just a legal skirmish between branches of government, but when OLC finally produced a 2004 opinion written by Jack Goldsmith, here's what it looked like:

https://www.document...memorandum.html

blog_recess_appointments_olc_opinion.jpg

The image above is what the NY Times was able to extract from the executive branch as a result of a recent FOIA lawsuit.

One of the only 11 unredacted lines contained in the three page memo is:

“Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.”

...............

.........

You can do your part by simply signing the petition, do more by passing it around and posting it on your social networks and do even more by writing a short, one page letter to the National Archivist, Cas Sunstein, the White House Information Czar, the Prez and the members of the House Oversight Committee.

It's easy to sit back and be cynical when in the same amount of time you can actually do something that might make a difference.

........

It is also easy to consider what has happened and to adjust accordingly. The alternative is to do the same thing over and over, and expect a different result. Conditions have changed. Obama and almost all sitting legislatures no longer maintain even the pretense of promoting disclosure because it they have abandoned the notion that they are accountable to the oath of office they were sworn in under.

Published on May 1, 2012 by wearechange

http://wearechange.org/store

In a rare public appearance, The Obama Administration's Information Czar Cass Sunstein gave a lecture at the NYU Law School in NYC yesterday, prompting Luke Rudkowski of WeAreChange to attend. Watch as Luke confronts Sunstein multiple times on an academic paper he co-authored back in 2008 entitled "Conspiracy Theories" in which he called for cognitive infiltration of conspiracy groups by the government.

You can download the paper for free here: http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

SALON article that appears in video: http://www.salon.com.../15/sunstein_2/

*UPDATE* Infowars Article on Confrontation: http://www.infowars....n-conspiracy...

http://twitter.com/lukewearechange

http;//wearechange.org

Bill, I am telling you that I've considered what Obama and democrats in the legislature said in the last presidential campaign cycle, vs. what they have done. After processing the contradictions in their speech and subsequent actions, I am 100 percent certain it is a waste of time to petition them. You have not even evolved your perception to accept that Obama is exhibiting multiple signs that he craves and practices dictatorial powers, including murder of fellow citizens.:

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/29/tea_party_treason/

Friday, Jun 29, 2012 04:53 PM EDT

Tea Party “treason”

What powers should the president have against those who advocate open, violent revolt against the U.S. government?

By Glenn Greenwald

......Obama defenders often justify Obama’s assassination of Awlaki by equating it to Lincoln’s killing of Confederate soldiers (revealingly, justifying War on Terror abuses by pretending this “war” is analogous to the Civil War was also the long-standing favorite tactic of neocons during the Bush years). Leaving aside the painfully glaring differences between the two “wars” — and the glaring difference between killing uniformed soldiers on a battlefield versus killing individuals in their homes far from any battlefield (see point 5) — wouldn’t acceptance of that analogy justify the targeting of Nicholson without due process? If Nicholson is in open revolt against the U.S. Government, then shouldn’t the President order him killed?

Think Progress’ accusation that Nicholson is guilty of “treason” is absurd — the U.S. Supreme Court has expressly held that the First Amendment free speech clause guarantees the right even to advocate violence or terrorism against government officials — but that did not stop the Democratic think tank and many others from cheering Awlaki’s assassination. And here’s a related question: for those who justified the due-process-free imprisonment of U.S. citizen Jose Padilla (who was arrested by the Bush administration on U.S. soil and then indefinitely detained without charges based on the allegation that he had joined Al Qaeda): should President Obama have the power to order Nicholson indefinitely detained without charges or trial? Would those who oppose such a power be guilty of advocating for traitors?

In light of all this, does anyone have difficulty understanding the complaint that the U.S. Government has a radically different system of justice for Muslims than it does everyone else? The primary “evolution” of the War on Terror over the past several years has been the importation of its civil liberties erosions onto U.S. soil and applied to U.S. citizens on the claimed ground that Homegrown Terrorism is now the gravest threat. As the country largely cheered the due-process-free assassination of U.S. citizen Awlaki, is it really difficult to envision the same power being applied in cases like this?......

Adjust your tactics Bill. In the house of representatives, the committee head you reached out to is as crazy as a loon. Obama and democrats are even more dangerous than Issa because they still seem to have the influence to fool people into believing they are more reasonable and responsive.

We are not in Kansas anymore, Bill.

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