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Final proof that the mtorcade came to a halt !


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This is a animated gif posted by Robin Unger that shows the motorcycle officers did stop. They appear to be reacting to something on their right side. It also shows JFK's head being thrown back and to the left. I believe it also shows the moment when Officer Hargis was splattered with blood.

The frame which shows JFK's head thrown back is equivalent to Zapruder Frame 318.

zlimobrake4bikes183nisaofi.gif

Hey there Mike...

[...]

DJ

ps... if you;ve EVER driven at 3mph, even 8 mph... and imagined that as the PROTECTIVE SPEED OF THE SS for POTUS... shock and horror SHOULD be your response...

Greer, if not guilty of failure to do his job, should have been reprimanded for his driving alone...

[...]

David,

I agree. Greer certainly hadn't accelerated much after negotiating the near hairpin turn at Elm and Houston, had he? Especially since there weren't very many spectators lining the sidewalks, etc at that point for JFK and Jackie to wave to.

Maybe he was confused, right before the fatal head shot, about which freeway entrance to take ? LOL

But! If there had already been a shot from the front which went through the windshield (scattering a few fragments of glass on Greer and Curry), maybe Greer and Co. were hesitant to get any closer to that shooter.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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This is a animated gif posted by Robin Unger that shows the motorcycle officers did stop. They appear to be reacting to something on their right side. It also shows JFK's head being thrown back and to the left. I believe it also shows the moment when Officer Hargis was splattered with blood.

The frame which shows JFK's head thrown back is equivalent to Zapruder Frame 318.

zlimobrake4bikes183nisaofi.gif

Hey there Mike...

[...]

DJ

ps... if you;ve EVER driven at 3mph, even 8 mph... and imagined that as the PROTECTIVE SPEED OF THE SS for POTUS... shock and horror SHOULD be your response...

Greer, if not guilty of failure to do his job, should have been reprimanded for his driving alone...

[...]

David,

I agree. Greer certainly hadn't accelerated much after negotiating the near hairpin turn at Elm and Houston, had he? Especially since there weren't very many spectators lining the sidewalks, etc at that point for JFK and Jackie to wave to.

Maybe he was confused, right before the fatal head shot, about which freeway entrance to take ? LOL

But! If there had already been a shot from the front which went through the windshield (scattering a few fragments of glass on Greer and Curry), maybe Greer and Co. were hesitant to get any closer to that shooter.

--Tommy :sun

One of the more fascinating aspects of Greer's WC testimony is that he failed to notice any of the bullet damage to the windshield during the shooting sequence.

Arlen Specter: I hand you Commission Exhibit 350 and ask you if you are able to state what that depicts?

William Greer: That depicts a break or a shatter in the windshield of it.

Arlen Specter: Does that picture accurately represent the status of the windshield on the President's car at sometime?

William Greer: Yes, sir; that windshield looks real familiar to me on the way it...

Arlen Specter: At what time, based on your observation, did the windshield of the President's car look like that picture?

William Greer: I had never seen that until the following day after it came back from Dallas.

Arlen Specter: But on November 23, did the President's car windshield look like that?

William Greer: Yes, sir; it looked like there was a break that had a diamond, in the windshield whenever I was shown that at the garage, the White House garage.

Arlen Specter: Was the size and scope of the crack the same as that which is shown on that exhibit?

William Greer: That I wouldn't remember whether it was quite that large or not. I don't believe it was that big. It might not have been but I wouldn't say for sure.

Arlen Specter: Did you observe any crack on the windshield after the time of the shooting on November 22?

William Greer: No, sir; I didn't see it at all. I didn't know anything about it until I came back, until the car came back and I was shown that.

Arlen Specter: Did you have any occasion on November 22, after the shooting, to observe closely the windshield?

William Greer: No, sir. The only time I was in the car was going to the hospital and I never - I didn't see the car any more. It was just from the shooting until we got to Parkland that I was with the car. I left the car there and never did see it until it was back at the White House garage.

Arlen Specter: Are you able to state with certainty there was no crack in that windshield prior to the shooting on November 22?

William Greer: Yes, sir; I am sure there was nothing wrong with that windshield prior to that because I would have it was almost in front of me and I examined the car, I looked it all over when I got there, I saw it was clean and everything, the windshield. I didn't see this ever at any time previous...

Considering the extent of the damage to the frame (which appears to be a primary bullet strike), the mirror, and the windshield in front of his face, it seriously strains credibility for Greer to say he noticed nothing that day.

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Jim,

The frames which are being displayed in the gif file you display in your post are Zapruder frames 317 and 318. Zapruder frame 318 correlates to the nix frame in which we see the backward head snap. The nix frame is much clearer so there is no doubt of the head movement. The blur in Zapruder frame 318 tends to cause researchers to not interpret the head movement on that frame, attributing all of it to blur caused by movement of the camera. However, the nix frames show that movement is real.

Frames 312 and 313 followed by Frames 317 and 318.

shot313.gif

shot318.gif

Edited by Mike Rago
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At 1.04 seconds of the

you can see a part of the motorcade at the corner of Main Str. and Huston street at a complete halt! Then starting again with the press bus coming into the picture.

KK

This is silly JFK's car is not in view at the time of the supposed stop. As for the witnesses, there was a study (on Tink's site IIRC) which showed that of the ones cited by Fetzer didn't really say it stopped

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Mike, thanks for posting this clip. As you mentioned the motorcycle police are reacting. It appears 3 of the 4 are reacting the split second after the head shot in the direction of the GN.

Excellent comment Tommy about the possibility of a windshield shot creating a distraction.

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What is significant is that there were witnesses to the limo stop, contra Len Colby, and their testimony stands. David Lifton has mentioned his interview with the Newmans; I have frequently brought up Debra Conway's 2000 interview with Toni Foster. She told Debra: "...The spray went behind him [not seen in the extant Z-film]. I do believe from what I heard and wghat I saw the shots came from the back. Now this whole thing was a shock but that's how I feel, what I heard and what I saw. At the time when I looked at him and I saw [how he reacted]--they were coming from the back. I know the Governor and Mrs. Connally were there but I wasn't even thinking about them. I don't mean that in an inconsiderate way but it's just what I saw. They were proteting themselves too. For some reason the car stopped. It did stop for seconds. I don't every know why it stopped and all of a sudden it sped up and they went under the underpass. I could never figure out why the car stopped. [Mrs. Kennedy] started crawling out the back of the car crying and screaming..." KAC Summer 2000.

(emphasis mine)

It is clear to me that Toni, at least at the time of the Conway interview, had not seen the extant Z-film, and that gives her greater credibility. The simple astonishment of the limo stop is one of the more remarkable statements in the interview, other than the phrase, "the spray went behind him," which, unknown to Toni, is strong evidence of an avulsive wound in the back of the head due to a shot from the front.

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Even men actively involved in the "Oswald did it alone"cover up, were talking about a halt.

For example, Postal Inspector Harry Holmes WCT:

quote

Mr. Holmes.

Mr. Kennedy leaned over against his wife, Mrs. Kennedy, as this thing, firecracker, looked like, come out. The car almost came to a stop, and Mrs. Kennedy pulled loose of him and crawled out over the turtleback of this Presidential car and was almost off of the back of the turtleback when a man from a car next to it came running up and I never--I got the impression in one way that she was trying to help him on the bumper.

c. quote

Or Witt, the fake Umbrella man: (HSCA testimony).

quote.

I saw the car coming down the street, down the hill to my left, the car was just about at a position like this [indicating] at this angle here. At this time there was the car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars.

c. quote

I know James Fetzer was taking this sentence of Witt as proof that Witt could have been there. The more plausible explanation is, that nobody involved of teaching Witt his text, was thinking about the Zapruder film were no car stop occurs...

Contradictions over contradictions too bad...the cover up guys overlooked so much...and they never thought, that it would be that easy to nail them in an age called the INTERNET age...

KK

Edited by Karl Kinaski
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The head moved down and to the right in Zapruder frame 313.

Zapruder frames 312 and 313.

33681500.gif

The shot at Zapruder frame 313 from the Nix location.

Spray of blood above presidents head, pointed in forward direction.

nixshot313.gif

Edited by Mike Rago
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Again, back to the question of "boots on the ground." In the .gif made from the Nix film, we see the inboard motorcycle officer take his left boot off the peg and lower it to the ground just after the head wound, in preparation for a full stop. It happens just as Clint Hill steps up on the limo bumper.

Is there any other filmed reaction by the motorcycle officers that would indicate a limo stop, at this moment or any other moment?

Also, in the .gif, do we not see Bill Newman turn to his right to look at the limo passing? He is turned right when he reacts to the fatal head shot.

In Zapruder, we can see Mary Moorman, opposite the Newmans and a few feet East of them, turn to her left to photograph the limo passing.

How can we relate spectator reactions to motion and non-motion of the limo to assess where the limo actually stopped? Was it before the fatal shot, or just after it? What's Greer's position in the car when the limo stops? Looking forward or behind?

Edited by David Andrews
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It seems credible to me that Greer would stop or almost stop the car if the fatal head shot came through the windshield. If there were shooters in front, where was he supposed to go? Then he did the only thing he could do, since there was no room to turn around, and that was to duck and take off. This reaction would suggest he was not complicit in the plot, i.e. he didn't stop or almost stop the car to wait for the head shot. He subsequently lied through his teeth, of course, wanting people to believe that from the plaza to Parkland he didn't notice that the windshield he was looking through was so obviously damaged. He was thus fully complicit in the cover-up, going so far as to give JFK's clothes to Rybka to stow in a White House locker so the clothes wouldn't be available at the autopsy. Greer had his instructions pretty quick.

As I recall, "back spatter" refers to spatter that goes back toward the source of the bullet (entry wound spatter), and "forward spatter" refers to spatter that goes in the direction of the bullet (exit wound spatter). (The terminology always confuses me, because it seems like it should mean the opposite.) Would it be correct to say that the back spatter, seen in front of JFK's head in both the Z and Nix films, is visible while the forward spatter isn't, because back spatter moves slower than forward spatter? If so, then the spatter seen in both films is consistent with a shot from the front.

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Ron, I tend to think that it was the throat shot that came through the windshield,* based on Connally's reaction in Zapruder, where he reflexively swats at the missile with his hat as it passes his face from the front. I suspect the bullet hole is what Kellerman is staring at transfixedly in Altgens 6.

Again, the operative words are "think" and "suspect," but Connally's reaction in Zapruder is compelling and underexamined. As a Stetson-hatted, motorcade-riding Texas politician, he must have swatted at a few pesky bees before. This one was copper-jacketed.

* It may have struck the throat and not the head because it was aimed through the windshield.

Edited by David Andrews
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It seems to me that the limo traveling at 2-3 mph for a couple seconds would APPEAR as if the limo stopped from a variety of angles...

yet it very possibly just keeps rolling...

and to me, the image on the left shows that JFK's head may have moved ever so slightly toward the bullet from the front, but not as a response to a shot from the back and right

Regarding Greer avoiding a frontal assassin... the composite I made showing Greer looking back starting at 303 makes it obvious he was not concerned with aNYTHING in front of him... the head shot comes AFTER the limo has slowed to a crawl...

AFTER Hill is able to reach a car supposedly going 8+mph, in 2-3 steps

and AFTER he stares at JFK until his head is blown off...

Given what Kellerman does upon arrival at Bethesda (leaves Greer at the wheel just waiting at the entrance while he RUNS to the morgue... this is just before 7pm) and how that evening is orchestrated... I get the impression that Greer was betwen a rock and hard place..

There is simply no justification, after the turn onto Elm, for Greer to EVER stop accellerating... that he hits the brakes and slows the car to 2-3mph is very damning ....

12. (f) Within these limitations, however, the Commission finds

that the (SS) agents most immediately responsible for the President’s

safety reacted promptly at the time the shots were fired from the TSBD.

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