At one point, Robert Kennedy was convinced Lyndon Johnson had murdered JFK

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Very early on, Robert Kennedy suspected CIA operatives murdered JFK. That is why he asked CIA director John McCone did one of "our guys" do it.

I think over time, perhaps early on, Robert Kennedy figured out Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. "Lyndon" was at the very top of the lists that Evelyn Lincoln, JFK's personal secretary for 12 years, had compiled while riding on the plane back from Dallas.

RFK and Jackie in December, 1963, sent their friend William Walton to tell the Russians that the JFK assassination had been a domestic plot that it had been a grievous mistake to pick Lyndon Johnson as Vice President. Early Russian propaganda immediately pointed the finger at Texas oil men for the JFK assassination. In fact, the Russian media has stuck to the "Texas oil men did it" for 40+ years. By September,1965, FBI counterintelligence learned that the KGB was *now* in possession of evidence purporting to show that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

I would be interested to know exactly at what point Robert Kennedy was "convinced" that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. Based on the massive amounts of hatred between the Kennedys and LBJ, I bet it was quite early after the JFK assassination.

As I often say, having Lyndon Johnson and US military intelligence as murderers of JFK are not mutually exclusive options. In fact I think both were at the epicenter of the JFK assassination. Lyndon Johnson was certainly plugged into the US military/industrial/intelligence complex as any one human being could be. LBJ was their #1 congressional appropriator for 10 years in the 1950's; LBJ was one of just a handful of congressional overseers of the CIA. LBJ and his Texas oil executives had deep military/intelligence ties, certainly on a professional level; likely on a social level as well.

Arthur Schlesinger:

"We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

[C. David Heymann, "RFK," p. 365]

And let's remember what Jim Garrison said at a press conference on 12/26/67.

In December of 1967, New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison said, "President Johnson is currently the most active person in the country protecting the assassins of John Kennedy." (12/26/67) We now know that LBJ, the FBI and the CIA (the perps) were sabotaging Garrison's investigation. "Why? Because of power – because if people knew the facts about the assassination they would not tolerate the people in power today. Keep in mind who profits most. Who appointed the Warren Commission? Who runs the FBI? Who runs the CIA? The President of the United States.” - Jim Garrison (12/26/67)

Jim Garrison also said, "President Johnson is currently the most active person in the country in protecting the assassins of John Kennedy."

"President Johnson must have known by the time of the arrest that Oswald did not pull the trigger."

Edited June 27, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Ian Kingsbury]

Robert

At what level was Mac Wallace involved?.

Were his prints found or not?.

Or were his Prints uncovered as insurance/leverage?

I think this hit a bit too big for Wallace !.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Robert

At what level was Mac Wallace involved?.

Were his prints found or not?.

Or were his Prints uncovered as insurance/leverage?

I think this hit a bit too big for Wallace !.

I don't know at what level Lyndon Johnson's personal hitman Malcolm Wallace was involved. I think it is pretty clear, as per Vincent Salandria and Martin Schotz, that the actually killing of JFK was done by US military intelligence. I believe that LBJ had full knowledge and participation in this plot.

I currently do not believe that Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint was a match to one found on the TSBD 6th floor: http://www.clpex.com...neous-Match.htm

In 2011 I interviewed Kasey Wertheim, an experienced fingerprint examiner, and he told me that in no way was the Mac Wallace fingerprint a match. Kasey's email is kaseywertheim@aol.com.

I think Nathan Darby the man who originally called the fingerprints a match with Mac Wallace was a competent and honest man. But he probably got it wrong. Having said that, Mac Wallace could easily have been involved in the JFK assassination in some capacity.

I think Gen. Edward Lansdale, who had a very frustrating time running Operation Mongoose for the Kennedys, was probably overseeing the JFK assassination at the field level. Perhaps in coordination with George Herbert Walker Bush. The men who actually shot JFK in a triangulation assassination were most likely the CIA operatives and anti-Castro Cubans who had been training to assassination Fidel Castro.

So I think Robert Kennedy was right on all his hunches: on "one of our (CIA) guys" being involved. On being convinced that Lyndon Johnson was involved.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Robert Morrow

[Bernice Moore]

The Article re the KGB...fwiw...b

[Bernice Moore]

Ian you may find the information within this site...best b.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/

[Pat Speer]

Robert

At what level was Mac Wallace involved?.

Were his prints found or not?.

Or were his Prints uncovered as insurance/leverage?

I think this hit a bit too big for Wallace !.

I don't know at what level Lyndon Johnson's personal hitman Malcolm Wallace was involved. I think it is pretty clear, as per Vincent Salandria and Martin Schotz, that the actually killing of JFK was done by US military intelligence. I believe that LBJ had full knowledge and participation in this plot.

I currently do not believe that Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint was a match to one found on the TSBD 6th floor: http://www.clpex.com...neous-Match.htm

In 2011 I interviewed Kasey Wertheim, an experienced fingerprint examiner, and he told me that in no way was the Mac Wallace fingerprint a match. Kasey's email is kaseywertheim@aol.com.

I think Nathan Darby the man who originally called the fingerprints a match with Mac Wallace was a competent and honest man. But he probably got it wrong. Having said that, Mac Wallace could easily have been involved in the JFK assassination in some capacity.

I think Gen. Edward Lansdale, who had a very frustrating time running Operation Mongoose for the Kennedys, was probably overseeing the JFK assassination at a field level. Perhaps in coordination with George Herbert Walker Bush. The men who actually shot JFK in a triangulation assassination were most likely the CIA operatives and anti-Castro Cubans who had been training to assassination Fidel Castro.

So I think Robert Kennedy was right on all his hunches: on "one of our (CIA) guys" being involved. On being convinced that Lyndon Johnson was involved.

Robert, is Kasey Wertheim related to Pat Wertheim? If so, I find it interesting he talked to you. I was in communication with Pat once about the palm print on the rifle and he said he didn't want to get dragged into looking at the Kennedy assassination evidence.

[Ian Kingsbury]

Ian you may find the information within this site...best b.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/

Thanks B

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Wallace

Print/s !. Maybe because very few believe him to be there and if his print/s

Were found there it would be to ensure LBJ to silence.

Layers of deceit within each seperate piece of evidence or testimony

Only makes you want to discover more!.

Ian

[Pat Speer]

Very early on, Robert Kennedy suspected CIA operatives murdered JFK. That is why he asked CIA director John McCone did one of "our guys" do it.

I think over time, perhaps early on, Robert Kennedy figured out Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. "Lyndon" was at the very top of the lists that Evelyn Lincoln, JFK's personal secretary for 12 years, had compiled while riding on the plane back from Dallas.

RFK and Jackie in December, 1963, sent their friend William Walton to tell the Russians that the JFK assassination had been a domestic plot that it had been a grievous mistake to pick Lyndon Johnson as Vice President. Early Russian propaganda immediately pointed the finger at Texas oil men for the JFK assassination. In fact, the Russian media has stuck to the "Texas oil men did it" for 40+ years. By September,1965, FBI counterintelligence learned that the KGB was *now* in possession of evidence purporting to show that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

I would be interested to know exactly at what point Robert Kennedy was "convinced" that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. Based on the massive amounts of hatred between the Kennedys and LBJ, I bet it was quite early after the JFK assassination.

As I often say, having Lyndon Johnson and US military intelligence as murderers of JFK are not mutually exclusive options. In fact I think both were at the epicenter of the JFK assassination. Lyndon Johnson was certainly plugged into the US military/industrial/intelligence complex as any one human being could be. LBJ was their #1 congressional appropriator for 10 years in the 1950's; LBJ was one of just a handful of congressional overseers of the CIA. LBJ and his Texas oil executives had deep military/intelligence ties, certainly on a professional level; likely on a social level as well.

Arthur Schlesinger:

"We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

[C. David Heymann, "RFK," p. 365]

I think you know, Robert, that I am one of those pesky researchers who refuses to believe everything in print, particularly when it's been written by someone who's made some very suspect claims in the past. Case in point, C. David Heymann. He likes to cite interviews with dead people for the most outrageous of claims, with nothing but the dead person's "word" for support of his claims.

It occurred to me, however, that the quote he attributes to Schlesinger was written while Schlesinger was still alive. This led me to look through the book and see if this quote--which doesn't sound like Schlesinger, IMO--came courtesy an undated interview with Schlesinger, or what have you. Well, Heymann tops himself yet again. He claims the cited passage was written by Schlesinger "Later" but doesn't specify when. The Source Notes for the chapter, even worse, list dozens of books and interviews supposedly used in the writing of this chapter, but the sources for only a handful of quotes. Heymann even has the chutzpah at the start of his sources section to say if you want more details, you're welcome to dig through the 60 boxes of notes and tapes he's deposited at a relatively obscure college (a college so obscure, one suspects, that it doesn't even have the resources to catalog his crap.) In any event, the only Schlesinger book cited in the Source Notes for this chapter is Robert Kennedy and his Times. I just did a google search through this book, however, and found no such quote. In Heymann's bibilography, for that matter, he adds two more books by Schlesinger, A Thousand Days and The Imperial Presidency. Google searches through these books similarly failed to produce the quote. I also searched the book on Schlesinger's journals, which came out after Heymann's book, on the off-chance he'd been allowed to view them. Once again, no such quote could be found.

So, in essence, I'm calling Heymann a xxxx, and challenging you to either find the quote attributed to Schlesinger, or stop quoting Heymann on this forum.

[Bernice Moore]

Ian you may find the information within this site...best b.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/

Thanks B

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Wallace

Print/s !. Maybe because very few believe him to be there and if his print/s

Were found there it would be to ensure LBJ to silence.

Layers of deceit within each seperate piece of evidence or testimony

Only makes you want to discover more!.

Ian

Your welcome Ian, thing is that rattles some, many ?? is that the fingerprint disappeared I believe it was into the FBI building and filed,for safe keeping...never to see the light of day again, or so they say, and has now disappeared and is not available to anyone, according to I believe Walt Browns research,narrated in the Guilty Man TMWKK episode, so another as you mention gone, into that forbidden huge layer called the FBI Files...thanks...take care b

Edited June 27, 2012 by Bernice Moore

[Guest Robert Morrow]

The Article re the KGB...fwiw...b

Here is the 12/1/66 Hoover memo to LBJ that the article above is based on: http://www.indiana.edu/~oah/nl/98feb/jfk.html#d1

Here is the relevant section of this incredibly illuminating document. The "source" referred to by Hoover is FBI counterintelligence, probably electronic eavesdropping of KGB agents in New York.

"On September 16, 1965, this same source reported that the KGB Residency in New York City received instructions approximately September 16, 1965, from KGB headquarters in Moscow to develop all possible information concerning President Lyndon B. Johnson's character, background, personal friends, family, and from which quarters he derives his support in his position as President of the United States. Our source added that in the instructions from Moscow, it was indicated that "now" the KGB was in possession of data purporting to indicate President Johnson was responsible for the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy. KGB headquarters indicated that in view of this information, it was necessary for the Soviet Government to know the existing personal relationship between President Johnson and the Kennedy family, particularly between President Johnson and Robert and "Ted" Kennedy."

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Very early on, Robert Kennedy suspected CIA operatives murdered JFK. That is why he asked CIA director John McCone did one of "our guys" do it.

I think over time, perhaps early on, Robert Kennedy figured out Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. "Lyndon" was at the very top of the lists that Evelyn Lincoln, JFK's personal secretary for 12 years, had compiled while riding on the plane back from Dallas.

RFK and Jackie in December, 1963, sent their friend William Walton to tell the Russians that the JFK assassination had been a domestic plot that it had been a grievous mistake to pick Lyndon Johnson as Vice President. Early Russian propaganda immediately pointed the finger at Texas oil men for the JFK assassination. In fact, the Russian media has stuck to the "Texas oil men did it" for 40+ years. By September,1965, FBI counterintelligence learned that the KGB was *now* in possession of evidence purporting to show that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

I would be interested to know exactly at what point Robert Kennedy was "convinced" that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. Based on the massive amounts of hatred between the Kennedys and LBJ, I bet it was quite early after the JFK assassination.

As I often say, having Lyndon Johnson and US military intelligence as murderers of JFK are not mutually exclusive options. In fact I think both were at the epicenter of the JFK assassination. Lyndon Johnson was certainly plugged into the US military/industrial/intelligence complex as any one human being could be. LBJ was their #1 congressional appropriator for 10 years in the 1950's; LBJ was one of just a handful of congressional overseers of the CIA. LBJ and his Texas oil executives had deep military/intelligence ties, certainly on a professional level; likely on a social level as well.

Arthur Schlesinger:

"We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

[C. David Heymann, "RFK," p. 365]

I think you know, Robert, that I am one of those pesky researchers who refuses to believe everything in print, particularly when it's been written by someone who's made some very suspect claims in the past. Case in point, C. David Heymann. He likes to cite interviews with dead people for the most outrageous of claims, with nothing but the dead person's "word" for support of his claims.

It occurred to me, however, that the quote he attributes to Schlesinger was written while Schlesinger was still alive. This led me to look through the book and see if this quote--which doesn't sound like Schlesinger, IMO--came courtesy an undated interview with Schlesinger, or what have you. Well, Heymann tops himself yet again. He claims the cited passage was written by Schlesinger "Later" but doesn't specify when. The Source Notes for the chapter, even worse, list dozens of books and interviews supposedly used in the writing of this chapter, but the sources for only a handful of quotes. Heymann even has the chutzpah at the start of his sources section to say if you want more details, you're welcome to dig through the 60 boxes of notes and tapes he's deposited at a relatively obscure college (a college so obscure, one suspects, that it doesn't even have the resources to catalog his crap.) In any event, the only Schlesinger book cited in the Source Notes for this chapter is Robert Kennedy and his Times. I just did a google search through this book, however, and found no such quote. In Heymann's bibilography, for that matter, he adds two more books by Schlesinger, A Thousand Days and The Imperial Presidency. Google searches through these books similarly failed to produce the quote. I also searched the book on Schlesinger's journals, which came out after Heymann's book, on the off-chance he'd been allowed to view them. Once again, no such quote could be found.

So, in essence, I'm calling Heymann a xxxx, and challenging you to either find the quote attributed to Schlesinger, or stop quoting Heymann on this forum.

Pat, Arthur Schlesinger, the close Kennedy family confidante, died in 2007. "RFK" by C. David Heymann was put out by a major publishing house Penguin in 1998. Schlesinger had 9 years to scream to high heaven if Heymann had misquoted him. You make a good point about Heymann's lack of footnotes, but that does not mean he was fabricating this. I am sure Schlesinger would have gotten a copy of "RFK" by Heymann.

I have been searching for this Schlesinger quote for a long time. I think I originally saw Schlesinger say this on film in a documentary about the Kennedys or the JFK assassination that I was watching. I have so many JFK things and DVDs around my house, I don't know which documentary it was in.

I do agree that the actual Schlesinger quote needs to be nailed down. It would have to been in a Schlesinger book or interview before 1998. Maybe it is in Schlesinger's "Journals: 1952- 2000." This was published in 2008: http://www.amazon.com/Journals-1952-2000-Jr-Arthur-Schlesinger/dp/B0043RTAXY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1340851936&sr=8-4&keywords=arthur+schlesinger

C. David Heymann is very valuable and I encourage folks to read all of his works relating to the Kennedys. I think Heymann pretty much proved to the 98-99% level that Robert Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy were having an outrageous affair post JFK assassination. Knowing the Kennedys, that affair may have started before 11/22/63.

Heymann in his works documents a lot of dirt on the Kennedys. That is why he is so valuable. Even if Heymann is making up 20% of his stuff, the other 80% is lot of stuff the JFK groupies and clowns on Education Forum will never tell you. The JFK assassination research community is plagued by people who willfully tossed away their ability to look at the Kennedys objectively. They worship them or think the Kennedys are like comic book super heroes. It is that pitiful.

These JFK "researchers" - I call them "groupys," David Lifton calls them "Camelotians" - get down on their knees for the Kennedys a lot more than Mimi Alford, Fiddle or Faddle ever did.

C. David Heymann is a nice chilly cold splash of (ugly) reality for these folks. And anyone else who wants to learn the truth.

"Bobby and Jackie: A Love Story:" http://www.amazon.com/Bobby-Jackie-A-Love-Story/dp/B004JZWMFS/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340852436&sr=1-1&keywords=bobby+and+jackie+a+love+story

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Very early on, Robert Kennedy suspected CIA operatives murdered JFK. That is why he asked CIA director John McCone did one of "our guys" do it.

I think over time, perhaps early on, Robert Kennedy figured out Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. "Lyndon" was at the very top of the lists that Evelyn Lincoln, JFK's personal secretary for 12 years, had compiled while riding on the plane back from Dallas.

RFK and Jackie in December, 1963, sent their friend William Walton to tell the Russians that the JFK assassination had been a domestic plot that it had been a grievous mistake to pick Lyndon Johnson as Vice President. Early Russian propaganda immediately pointed the finger at Texas oil men for the JFK assassination. In fact, the Russian media has stuck to the "Texas oil men did it" for 40+ years. By September,1965, FBI counterintelligence learned that the KGB was *now* in possession of evidence purporting to show that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination.

I would be interested to know exactly at what point Robert Kennedy was "convinced" that Lyndon Johnson was behind the JFK assassination. Based on the massive amounts of hatred between the Kennedys and LBJ, I bet it was quite early after the JFK assassination.

As I often say, having Lyndon Johnson and US military intelligence as murderers of JFK are not mutually exclusive options. In fact I think both were at the epicenter of the JFK assassination. Lyndon Johnson was certainly plugged into the US military/industrial/intelligence complex as any one human being could be. LBJ was their #1 congressional appropriator for 10 years in the 1950's; LBJ was one of just a handful of congressional overseers of the CIA. LBJ and his Texas oil executives had deep military/intelligence ties, certainly on a professional level; likely on a social level as well.

Arthur Schlesinger:

"We tried to perpetuate the myth by convincing ourselves that we were good and that LBJ was evil. I remember one time Bobby telling me he was convinced that Lyndon was behind his brother's death. 'Come on Bob. Get real.' I said. His other theory had it that Richard Nixon and Howard Hughes were somehow involved. He hated them both. 'Nixon's a true slimebucket,' he said. 'And I should have investigated Hughes years ago.'"

[C. David Heymann, "RFK," p. 365]

I think you know, Robert, that I am one of those pesky researchers who refuses to believe everything in print, particularly when it's been written by someone who's made some very suspect claims in the past. Case in point, C. David Heymann. He likes to cite interviews with dead people for the most outrageous of claims, with nothing but the dead person's "word" for support of his claims.

It occurred to me, however, that the quote he attributes to Schlesinger was written while Schlesinger was still alive. This led me to look through the book and see if this quote--which doesn't sound like Schlesinger, IMO--came courtesy an undated interview with Schlesinger, or what have you. Well, Heymann tops himself yet again. He claims the cited passage was written by Schlesinger "Later" but doesn't specify when. The Source Notes for the chapter, even worse, list dozens of books and interviews supposedly used in the writing of this chapter, but the sources for only a handful of quotes. Heymann even has the chutzpah at the start of his sources section to say if you want more details, you're welcome to dig through the 60 boxes of notes and tapes he's deposited at a relatively obscure college (a college so obscure, one suspects, that it doesn't even have the resources to catalog his crap.) In any event, the only Schlesinger book cited in the Source Notes for this chapter is Robert Kennedy and his Times. I just did a google search through this book, however, and found no such quote. In Heymann's bibilography, for that matter, he adds two more books by Schlesinger, A Thousand Days and The Imperial Presidency. Google searches through these books similarly failed to produce the quote. I also searched the book on Schlesinger's journals, which came out after Heymann's book, on the off-chance he'd been allowed to view them. Once again, no such quote could be found.

So, in essence, I'm calling Heymann a xxxx, and challenging you to either find the quote attributed to Schlesinger, or stop quoting Heymann on this forum.

Pat, Arthur Schlesinger, the close Kennedy family confidante, died in 2007. "RFK" by C. David Heymann was put out by a major publishing house Penguin in 1998. Schlesinger had 9 years to scream to high heaven if Heymann had misquoted him. You make a good point about Heymann's lack of footnotes, but that does not mean he was fabricating this. I am sure Schlesinger would have gotten a copy of "RFK" by Heymann.

I have been searching for this Schlesinger quote for a long time. I think I originally saw Schlesinger say this on film in a documentary about the Kennedys or the JFK assassination that I was watching. I have so many JFK things and DVDs around my house, I don't know which documentary it was in.

I do agree that the actual Schlesinger quote needs to be nailed down. It would have to been in a Schlesinger book or interview before 1998. Maybe it is in Schlesinger's "Journals: 1952- 2000." This was published in 2008: http://www.amazon.com/Journals-1952-2000-Jr-Arthur-Schlesinger/dp/B0043RTAXY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1340851936&sr=8-4&keywords=arthur+schlesinger

C. David Heymann is very valuable and I encourage folks to read all of his works relating to the Kennedys. I think Heymann pretty much proved to the 98-99% level that Robert Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy were having an outrageous affair post JFK assassination. Knowing the Kennedys, that affair may have started before 11/22/63.

Heymann in his works documents a lot of dirt on the Kennedys. That is why he is so valuable. Even if Heymann is making up 20% of his stuff, the other 80% is lot of stuff the JFK groupies and clowns on Education Forum will never tell you. The JFK assassination research community is plagued by people who willfully tossed away their ability to look at the Kennedys objectively. They worship them or think the Kennedys are like comic book super heroes. It is that pitiful.

These JFK "researchers" - I call them "groupys," David Lifton calls them "Camelotians" - get down on their knees for the Kennedys a lot more than Mimi Alford, Fiddle or Faddle ever did.

C. David Heymann is a nice chilly cold splash of (ugly) reality for these folks. And anyone else who wants to learn the truth.

"Bobby and Jackie: A Love Story:" http://www.amazon.com/Bobby-Jackie-A-Love-Story/dp/B004JZWMFS/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340852436&sr=1-1&keywords=bobby+and+jackie+a+love+story