David Morales

[William Kelly]

Thank you, Michael, for your insights........

......I'd like to explore the possibility of a Morales "double" -- in the broadest, doppelganger sense of the term. If I'm not mistaken, there was another operative of the period known as "The Indian," or "El Indio." .......

....... I was approached in Dealey Plaza by one of the conference attendees, who told me that there were two "big Indians" in the mix.

We all might benefit from a discussion of the "other" one.

Charles

Charles,

I think I may have found your Other "El Indio," among BEA's cast of characters.

Could "El Indio II" be Ernie Sparks?

This guy Ernie Sparks also reminds me of the "CIA Cowboy" in that little coastal town in Chile where the young American Harmon overheard coup operatives bragging, which cost him his life, as portrayed in the book and movie "Missing."

What do you think?

BK

Bradley E. Ayers:

ERNIE SPARKS - "Sitting Bull" - The Other Indian?

Eventually, and old CIA training officer, Ernie Sparks, arrived and took over as chief of branch….Ernie dressed in Western style, with cowboy boots, jeans and open collared riding shirt. Often he would have a big revolver holstered at his side.

He was about 50, with gray hair, a droopy mustache, ruddy complexion, and piercing blue eyes.

He was portly but muscular. He could have been a Wild West movie character.

He had been nicknamed 'Sitting Bull' while serving as a training officer in Guatemala, preparing Cuban exile Brigade 2506 for the Bay of Pigs invasion. As the time went by I learned he had a penchant for booze, women and sports cars….."

[Charles Drago]

I think I may have found your Other "El Indio," among BEA's cast of characters.

Could "El Indio II" be Ernie Sparks?

This guy Ernie Sparks also reminds me of the "CIA Cowboy" in that little coastal town in Chile where the young American Harmon overheard coup operatives bragging, which cost him his life, as portrayed in the book and movie "Missing."

What do you think?

BK

Bradley E. Ayers:

ERNIE SPARKS - "Sitting Bull" - The Other Indian?

Eventually, and old CIA training officer, Ernie Sparks, arrived and took over as chief of branch….Ernie dressed in Western style, with cowboy boots, jeans and open collared riding shirt. Often he would have a big revolver holstered at his side.

He was about 50, with gray hair, a droopy mustache, ruddy complexion, and piercing blue eyes.

He was portly but muscular. He could have been a Wild West movie character.

He had been nicknamed 'Sitting Bull' while serving as a training officer in Guatemala, preparing Cuban exile Brigade 2506 for the Bay of Pigs invasion. As the time went by I learned he had a penchant for booze, women and sports cars….."

Bill,

Thanks for looking -- and for the pm.

While "Sparks" surely qualifies as a candidate, I recall that the other El Indio was literally of Native American heritage.

But it's also possible that I'm experiencing the so-called creative memory phenomenon. So let's keep looking; I'll mount a semblance of a search through my library and via the Internet.

Something tells me that Bill Turner and/or Gaeton Fonzi would have this info at hand.

And I'm convinced that this is an important story within the doppelganger-as-intel-op context.

Charles

[William Kelly]

I think I may have found your Other "El Indio," among BEA's cast of characters.

Could "El Indio II" be Ernie Sparks?

This guy Ernie Sparks also reminds me of the "CIA Cowboy" in that little coastal town in Chile where the young American Harmon overheard coup operatives bragging, which cost him his life, as portrayed in the book and movie "Missing."

What do you think?

BK

Bradley E. Ayers:

ERNIE SPARKS - "Sitting Bull" - The Other Indian?

Eventually, and old CIA training officer, Ernie Sparks, arrived and took over as chief of branch….Ernie dressed in Western style, with cowboy boots, jeans and open collared riding shirt. Often he would have a big revolver holstered at his side.

He was about 50, with gray hair, a droopy mustache, ruddy complexion, and piercing blue eyes.

He was portly but muscular. He could have been a Wild West movie character.

He had been nicknamed 'Sitting Bull' while serving as a training officer in Guatemala, preparing Cuban exile Brigade 2506 for the Bay of Pigs invasion. As the time went by I learned he had a penchant for booze, women and sports cars….."

Bill,

Thanks for looking -- and for the pm.

While "Sparks" surely qualifies as a candidate, I recall that the other El Indio was literally of Native American heritage.

But it's also possible that I'm experiencing the so-called creative memory phenomenon. So let's keep looking; I'll mount a semblance of a search through my library and via the Internet.

Something tells me that Bill Turner and/or Gaeton Fonzi would have this info at hand.

And I'm convinced that this is an important story within the doppelganger-as-intel-op context.

Charles

Charlres,

While Sparkes might have dressed like a cowboy, I don't think they would have given him the nickname "Sitting Bull" if he wasn't a Native American."

BK

[Charles Drago]

Bill,

I know two Italian-Americans whose features are so stereotypically Native American that they have "Indian" nicknames.

Don't mean to split (scalp?) hairs, but by the same token none of the Morales photos I've seen, including those most recently dug up by Messrs. Morley and Talbot, reveal a gentleman whose features readily seem to fit the stereotype in question.

The grainy photo released by the Cubans, however, is another story. The broad, round face, square jaw, and even hairline do not resemble those features of the older Morales; but age exacts a price -- or so I'm told.

I referenced this issue in an earlier post, which prompted John Simkin to opine that, to his eye, all photos are of the same individual -- the "historical" David Sanchez Morales.

Charles

[Wayne Smith]

My only comment is that I remain convinced that the man in the photos is Dave Morales. I knew him well and saw him often over a period of years. And given everything else I know and knew about Morales, I’d have had no reason to doubt that he’d have been there. The other two I didn’t know at all.

[James Richards]

My only comment is that I remain convinced that the man in the photos is Dave Morales. I knew him well and saw him often over a period of years. And given everything else I know and knew about Morales, I’d have had no reason to doubt that he’d have been there. The other two I didn’t know at all.

Thanks, Wayne.

I posed this question a few weeks ago on another thread but would be really keen to get your imput. In your opinion, is there any chance that the guy in Dealey Plaza below is Morales? I know this is difficult to commit to but anything you can offer would be appreciated.

Also, during the days in Havana, did you know Morales as David Morales or Stanley Zamka?

Cheers,

James

Edited July 24, 2007 by James Richards

[Antti Hynonen]

James,

Can't say if "Man photographed in Dealy Plaza" is a lookalike of David Morales in the picture you posted, but "Man photographed in Dealy Plaza" sure resembles the man in the film from the Ambassador hotel. The one thought to be David Morales.

[Wayne Smith]

My only comment is that I remain convinced that the man in the photos is Dave Morales. I knew him well and saw him often over a period of years. And given everything else I know and knew about Morales, I’d have had no reason to doubt that he’d have been there. The other two I didn’t know at all.

Thanks, Wayne.

I posed this question a few weeks ago on another thread but would be really keen to get your imput. In your opinion, is there any chance that the guy in Dealey Plaza below is Morales? I know this is difficult to commit to but anything you can offer would be appreciated.

Also, during the days in Havana, did you know Morales as David Morales or Stanley Zamka?

I can’t tell. It could be Morales but the picture is too blurry and sideways to be sure. I knew him in Havana as Dave Morales. Never heard of Stanley Zamka.

[James Richards]

My only comment is that I remain convinced that the man in the photos is Dave Morales. I knew him well and saw him often over a period of years. And given everything else I know and knew about Morales, I’d have had no reason to doubt that he’d have been there. The other two I didn’t know at all.

Thanks, Wayne.

I posed this question a few weeks ago on another thread but would be really keen to get your imput. In your opinion, is there any chance that the guy in Dealey Plaza below is Morales? I know this is difficult to commit to but anything you can offer would be appreciated.

Also, during the days in Havana, did you know Morales as David Morales or Stanley Zamka?

I can’t tell. It could be Morales but the picture is too blurry and sideways to be sure. I knew him in Havana as Dave Morales. Never heard of Stanley Zamka.

Thank you, Wayne.

I appreciate the reply.

Antti, in the period just after the RFK assassination, Morales lost a dramatic amount of weight. On the surface this might mean nothing but I am working on something here which might prove interesting. Hopefully more later.

Cheers,

James

[Charles Drago]

James,

"Dramatic" is the only word to describe the weight loss. This is the sort of thing that contributes to the "were there more than one of these guys" questions.

I'd appreciate your take on the differences between the Cuban-released photo of the clean-shaven, square-jawed, round-faced Morales, and the "dramatically" thinner character we otherwise see. Please think of this in light of the two El Indios issue as I've raised it previously.

One of many questions: Do you see anything in the Morales photographic record -- albeit comprised of B&W images -- that would lead a stereotypically inclined person to peg him as an "Indian"?

Charles

Edited July 24, 2007 by Charles Drago

[James Richards]

James,

"Dramatic" is the only word to describe the weight loss. This is the sort of thing that contributes to the "were there more than one of these guys" questions.

I'd appreciate your take on the differences between the Cuban-released photo of the clean-shaven, square-jawed, round-faced Morales, and the "dramatically" thinner character we otherwise see. Please think of this in light of the two El Indios issue as I've raised it previously.

One of many questions: Do you see anything in the Morales photographic record -- albeit comprised of B&W images -- that would lead a stereotypically inclined person to peg him as an "Indian"?

Charles

Charles,

In addition to the weight loss issue there is also his height. In the new Vietnam images, he seems to be of average height when from all reports he was well over 6 foot. The images show him standing alongside a Vietnamese gentleman of roughly the same height and tall Vietnamese are somewhat of a rarety. Given that these two men were indeed in excess of 6 foot, that would make the bald guy over 7 foot tall.

Maybe I am not factoring in perspectives here and one of the forum's photographic experts can explain, but the discrepancies appear to be considerable.

To add another perspective, I showed the Vietnam photos to someone who had worked with Morales and he didn't recognize him but did say that the one snapped in Peru was definitely him.

As to the two 'El Indio's', there was a Cuban nicknamed 'El Indio' but I have not been able to find a photograph of him.

Onward!

James

Edited July 25, 2007 by James Richards

[Charles Drago]

Onward indeed, James.

With the caveat that the photos we do have of the historic Morales are B&W and few in number, there is nothing in his appearance that to these eyes would prompt the "Indian" sobriquet.

That being noted, it may well be that "El Indio" was not inspired by facial features but rather arose from recognition of heritage alone.

I still feel that I'm on shakey ground, but something's wrong with the Morales picture(s). Again, compare the big, round countenance in the Cuban photo with the others we now can study. The high school basketball view and the Viet Nam shots show a slender person of modest frame.

(And yes, I have first-hand evidence of what middle age can do to one's middle section.)

But what about bone structure? And what about the hair? Significantly different styles and textures are noted.

As for the other El Indio being Cuban -- I think you're right. My own search through the literature continues.

I do not want to be instrumental in encouraging yet another wild goose chase. And yet ...

Curioser and curioser ...

Charles

[Myra Bronstein]

James,

"Dramatic" is the only word to describe the weight loss. This is the sort of thing that contributes to the "were there more than one of these guys" questions.

I'd appreciate your take on the differences between the Cuban-released photo of the clean-shaven, square-jawed, round-faced Morales, and the "dramatically" thinner character we otherwise see. Please think of this in light of the two El Indios issue as I've raised it previously.

One of many questions: Do you see anything in the Morales photographic record -- albeit comprised of B&W images -- that would lead a stereotypically inclined person to peg him as an "Indian"?

Charles

Charles,

In addition to the weight loss issue there is also his height. In the new Vietnam images, he seems to be of average height when from all reports he was well over 6 foot. The images show him standing alongside a Vietnamese gentleman of roughly the same height and tall Vietnamese are somewhat of a rarety. Given that these two men were indeed in excess of 6 foot, that would make the bald guy over 7 foot tall.

Maybe I am not factoring in perspectives here and one of the forum's photographic experts can explain, but the discrepancies appear to be considerable.

To add another perspective, I showed the Vietnam photos to someone who had worked with Morales and he didn't recognize him but did say that the one snapped in Peru was definitely him.

As to the two 'El Indio's', there was a Cuban nicknamed 'El Indio' but I have not been able to find a photograph of him.

Onward!

James

Did he have a 13" head?

...

I'm rather curious.

[Myra Bronstein]

Onward indeed, James.

With the caveat that the photos we do have of the historic Morales are B&W and few in number, there is nothing in his appearance that to these eyes would prompt the "Indian" sobriquet.

That being noted, it may well be that "El Indio" was not inspired by facial features but rather arose from recognition of heritage alone.

I still feel that I'm on shakey ground, but something's wrong with the Morales picture(s). Again, compare the big, round countenance in the Cuban photo with the others we now can study. The high school basketball view and the Viet Nam shots show a slender person of modest frame.

(And yes, I have first-hand evidence of what middle age can do to one's middle section.)

But what about bone structure? And what about the hair? Significantly different styles and textures are noted.

As for the other El Indio being Cuban -- I think you're right. My own search through the literature continues.

I do not want to be instrumental in encouraging yet another wild goose chase. And yet ...

Curioser and curioser ...

Charles

We need John Armstrong on the case.

[Charles Drago]

Myra,

I'll be the first to write for the record that, at the present time, it's at least as likely that my interpretations of the Morales photos will be shown to be baseless as it is that we've stumbled onto the latest in a long series of double-header gambits.

We need to identify the other El Indio -- James, by the way, is on the right track when he, like me, recalls that this character was/is Cuban.

We need more photos of DSM and serious, objective analyses of the photos in hand.

We need to understand that, given the recent heightened interest in Morales, the release of photos doctored to engender just the sort of suspicions that I harbor is hardly out of the question.

The objective of such an op: To distract and demean "conspiracists" who see bogeymen behind every tree.

Let's proceed with hard-earned wisdom and all due caution.

Charles