William Plumlee Posted October 20, 2004 Author Share Posted October 20, 2004 (edited) x Edited March 21, 2008 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 ... If I remember right was'nt their two Morales active around that time. I can't remember for sure, but I think there were. The man also known as "El Indio", would be David S. Morales, right? Who could the other one have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 (edited) I did say at one time to Peter Lemkin and Jim Marrs that he did look like Bosch also known as 'Gator" and had a finger missing on his right hand I think. (Tosh Plumlee)Tosh, You mention the name 'Gator'. Could it have been El Gato? This guy supposedly had a finger bitten off by an alligator. James <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Right on James: And he had a large Adams Apple. I could not recall all the details and would not be in a position to know all the details about him. It was outside my expertise, a pilot, "bus Jocky" as Hemming used to call me. None the less, I can tell you how he lost his finger or fingers. He used to capture alligators and put on displays at an alligator farm near West Palm Beach and one got him one day. That was before he became engaged with the mob and the Cuban cause. I think he was also known as "the Assination" and ran around with " Charlie the blade". I know who this is (the blade; its recorded by me years ago ask Marrs) his real name) He used to work in Havana at Mayer Lansky's Casino, before the fall of Batista. Later came to Florida and got engageded in Ops as a "contract employee" for Johney Rosellie. However, I can not confirm that this is the man in the picture.. It does look like the man on the Dallas flight and I am on record as saying that years ago... to the FBI and to Jim Marrs and others. It went no where and I was accused of making up the story. Thanks for the memory jog... tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> note: previous post At the time of the Peter Lemkins interest and later Joe West and Dick Clark. ref; 1991-92 The person you speakm of was said to be Orlando Bosch and I was ask if I knew this. I said he looked like 'the person on my flight with the code name of "Gator" and I told them the story about the alligator farm and the Havana stuff. Later I told them I did not think it was the Omega-7 Bosch. Lemkin said I was wrong, he knew it was Bosch but would not tell me how he knew. Later, Joe West ask me about this man and said , "I was not telling him the truth", because I had previously said it was Orlando Bosch. This was in Oliver Stones office in Santa Monica, and Alex Hoe, another person, and Oliver's dog 'Danny' was there. That was before Joe died and was when I first meet Joe. Stone had hired Joe West to "check me out" because he was researching JFK. That was before others contaminated Joe's work. That was one of the reasons I quit working with Lemkin and West. I thought I had better clear this up. It has been twisted around, because I would not support others projects and change my knowledge of the events. Tosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tosh: You said, "I thought I had better clear this up" regarding Orlando Bosch, so I am trying to nail down this one issue. Are you saying that the Dark Complected Man (DCM) standing next to the Umbrella Man was definitely NOT Bosch? Any why do you think people like Joe West falsely claimed that you had identified Bosch? And if the DCM was not Bosch, do you mean to still be saying that DCM, whomever that is (Gator? Gato?), was on your flight into Dallas? Tim Edited October 20, 2004 by Tim Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I did say at one time to Peter Lemkin and Jim Marrs that he did look like Bosch also known as 'Gator" and had a finger missing on his right hand I think. There's an interesting animated gif on the Lancer forum. It's an enlargement of a segment of the Zapruder film, and is the clearest look I've seen at DCM's waving right hand. I tried to save the image to post here but couldn't save it for some reason. There's something odd about his hand, like it's missing a finger or the thumb or has a stub or something. Everyone take a look and see what you can make of it. Here's the link. Scroll down about half way, to the large animated image that shows the waving hand. http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...ing_type=search Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) [x Edited March 21, 2008 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) x Edited March 21, 2008 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) x Edited March 21, 2008 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carroll Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Tosh, Because your answers have been twisted at various times for various reasons, I am making an effort to stick directly to the facts. I understand this answer about Bosch to be that it looked him but that you don't think it was him. But the other part of the question is, whoever DCM is, was that the same man that was on your flight? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Plumlee Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) x Edited March 21, 2008 by William Plumlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanet Clark Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 If he was on my flight then he would have been part of the abort. Tosh Nothing personal, but I think the main problem people may have with your story is that you say your CIA JM/WAVE task was to "abort" the assassination...it looks more like you were sent to Dealey Plaza to observe, participate in and/or be implicated yourself... and you helped Johnny Roselli get in to town and you may have helped the shooters or other players get out....see what I mean? Were you authorized to use deadly force to "abort"? What if you had seen a shooter in place - would you have used deadly force to prevent the killing? I think a lot of people might think you're hedging, and claiming good intentions after the fact. If that's what they told you, did you have any doubts about the task? Shanet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 (edited) Is it checkable whether Orlando Boch has a pink missing? What does Gator mean? Does it mean something or is it just a name? Wim Edited October 22, 2004 by Wim Dankbaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Gator is short for Alligator. Wim, do you mean you folks over there have never heard of the Florida Gators? Tsk tsk. Go Gators! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wim Dankbaar Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thanks, Well, I had heard of Gator and Gator Ridge (a name for no name key) but never made the connection with the word aligator. We don't have aligatores here by the way, exept in the zoo. Have you ever heard of dropjes? Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Have you ever heard of dropjes? (Wim Dankbaar) Isn't that some kind of liquorice? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cox Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Just an aside on one part of your post, Shanet In one of Tosh's int'vus over years I remember reading a question put to him similar to your's. He answered the way anyone would. I think gist of reply: If it turned out he was unwittingly involved it was unfortunate (for lack of better word) A turn of events he could not singley control at any point in the event. Not having that interview in front of me, I'm taking license in my shoddy recall I too thought the same thing about the abort mission. I'm sure I asked Tosh if he felt he had flown in shooters or otherwise participants. IMO, he's been consistent in his view. If I remember correctly this was a mil operation Tosh was on, but he'll have to correct me. Hearing these recounts, from guys like Tosh, I've learned that missions or need to know operations carry risks when you only know your part. A shaky safety net. If there's a bonafide mission going on, it's going to go bad sometimes. My father (Paul Hughes Cuba '60), Geoffrey Sullivan and Alex Rorke ('63) and Cuesta and guys like Bayo Perez, too many to list, all have this in common. Unfortunately they can't tell us their stories. The strangest part of this flight to Redbird to me is that it carried Roselli. A man who later had something to tell the commission in DC and was prevented from doing so. We know Roselli used this protection before by drawing government into a testimony. That is important and confounding. The men who lived tend to bear the weight of all the others gone before them. Just my humblest of opinions Chris Cox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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