David Morales

[Shanet Clark]

Just an aside on one part of your post, Shanet

In one of Tosh's int'vus over years I remember reading a question put to him similar to your's.    He answered the way anyone would.  I think gist of reply: If it turned out he was unwittingly involved it was unfortunate (for lack of better word) A turn of events he could not singley control at any point in the event. 

....................................The strangest part of this flight to Redbird to me is that it carried Roselli.  A man who later had something to tell the commission in DC and was prevented from doing so.  We know Roselli used this protection before by drawing government into a testimony.  That is important and confounding. 

..................

The men who lived tend to bear the weight of all the others gone before them. 

Just my humblest of opinions         Chris Cox

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris

You'll notice I defend Tosh on another thread, and like I told John,

I'm glad he's with us........

This has been a great thread, I've read it over twice, and your stuff is sharp.

On David Morales, Tosh shows that his sources say he stayed in Miami,

but is that a good picture of him with "Tracy Barnes" on the corner of Main?

Thats what this thread is supposed to answer,

did D. Morales plan the event, and was he in Dallas on 11/22/63?

Howard Hunt went to civil trial and lost over this same kind of question........

Shanet

Edited October 24, 2004 by Shanet Clark

[Chris Cox]

There's another El Indio. James, can you help? I made this error in a mail to you and Larry. This other El Indio was on a Masferrer sponsored raid in October 1960. Americans and Cubans were executed. Perhaps two Indios not two Morales.

[James Richards]

There's another El Indio. James, can you help? I made this error in a mail to you and Larry. This other El Indio was on a Masferrer sponsored raid in October 1960. Americans and Cubans were executed. Perhaps two Indios not two Morales. (Christy Cox)

You are spot on, Christy.

Armentino Feria Perez (aka El Indio) was a Masferrer man. I should have recognized that earlier. This guy was also associated with Anselmo Alliegro and was around when the Masferrer guys went into Cuba. One would have to think that your dad would have known him.

Nice pick-up with the El Indio thing. Well done.

James

[Chris Cox]

yup, that be him. Thanks James. I survived the 70's with half a memory (wink)

Have a slew of FBI files on my dad with the other El Indio mentioned. Not sure if it's worth much here, but thanks for quick response.

[Greg Kooyman]

After reading several topics about David Sanchez Morales, I am wondering if any of the JFK researchers on this forum have tried finding any of Morales' surviving family or close friends to see if David Morales did any more talking about the Kennedy Assassination.

I think I read from an earlier posting here of an article that was written about Morales in which he was extremely proud of his service to his country both military and in intelligence. It seems to me that someone close to Morales may know more about his possible role in Kennedy's assassination.

Has anyone tried looking into to Morales' background for family and friends to interview?

[James Richards]

After reading several topics about David Sanchez Morales, I am wondering if any of the JFK researchers on this forum have tried finding any of Morales' surviving family or close friends to see if David Morales did any more talking about the Kennedy Assassination.

I think I read from an earlier posting here of an article that was written about Morales in which he was extremely proud of his service to his country both military and in intelligence.  It seems to me that someone close to Morales may know more about his possible role in Kennedy's assassination.

Has anyone tried looking into to Morales' background for family and friends to interview?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greg,

Over the last few weeks, I have been speaking with several people who were close to Morales during his high school years. I have also spoken at great length with a gentleman who remained friends with him until his death.

Some interesting things about Morales have emerged like his early military service; supposedly rejected in 1944 at a time of war and accepted in 1946 during a time of peace. There is obviously more to that than meets the eye.

As to his possible role in the assassination of JFK, I have discussed this with his close friend as well as other aspects of his career. Morales did open up a little more towards the end of his life.

I have more work to do on this and have scheduled some other people to speak with. I want to eventually present all of this information so people can make up their own minds.

Needless to say, if one is looking to figure out the conspiracy which murdered JFK, then one must begin with David Morales. In my opinion of course.

James

[Greg Kooyman]

After reading several topics about David Sanchez Morales, I am wondering if any of the JFK researchers on this forum have tried finding any of Morales' surviving family or close friends to see if David Morales did any more talking about the Kennedy Assassination.

I think I read from an earlier posting here of an article that was written about Morales in which he was extremely proud of his service to his country both military and in intelligence.  It seems to me that someone close to Morales may know more about his possible role in Kennedy's assassination.

Has anyone tried looking into to Morales' background for family and friends to interview?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greg,

Over the last few weeks, I have been speaking with several people who were close to Morales during his high school years. I have also spoken at great length with a gentleman who remained friends with him until his death.

Some interesting things about Morales have emerged like his early military service; supposedly rejected in 1944 at a time of war and accepted in 1946 during a time of peace. There is obviously more to that than meets the eye.

As to his possible role in the assassination of JFK, I have discussed this with his close friend as well as other aspects of his career. Morales did open up a little more towards the end of his life.

I have more work to do on this and have scheduled some other people to speak with. I want to eventually present all of this information so people can make up their own minds.

Needless to say, if one is looking to figure out the conspiracy which murdered JFK, then one must begin with David Morales. In my opinion of course.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

James,

I definitely agree. Weren't some of David Morales' friends and relatives from Arizona? I will be anxious to find out what your interviews come up with when you get ready to post them.

By the way, you have an excellent photographic collection that you have shared here.

[James Richards]

James,

I definitely agree. Weren't some of David Morales' friends and relatives from Arizona? I will be anxious to find out what your interviews come up with when you get ready to post them.

By the way, you have an excellent photographic collection that you have shared here. (Greg Kooyman)

Greg,

Thank you for the nice words. Arizona may play an important role in all of this. Morales was connected to Carl Hayden's brother and some shonky business deals may have been the result. Morales was also supposedly close with Barry Goldwater which is an area I am currently looking into.

Let's not forget that Morales' close associate during the covert years was Arizona resident Tom Clines. William Seymour was born in Montana but spent a lot of time in Arizona where he currently resides. That's another story for another thread but it plugs back into Morales and his influence over local politics.

FWIW.

James

[Tim Gratz]

James recently posted a lengthy excellent article on Morales.

Can't we redirect this thread to that thread so the information is in one place (because it's al great stuff!).

Thanks!

[Chris Cox]

James I'm reminded of an article I read on web few years ago about the restaurant where Morales hung out. It was an Arizona? article more about the restaurant and his relationship with the family but hinted at his background. Perhaps it was his obit. Maybe you have this.

Anyway I'm interested in his rejection in '44, what were the grounds for this, any details?

Thx

[James Richards]

James I'm reminded of an article I read on web few years ago about the restaurant where Morales hung out.  It was an Arizona? article more about the restaurant and his relationship with the family but hinted at his background.  Perhaps it was his obit. Maybe you have this.

Anyway I'm interested in his rejection in '44, what were the grounds for this, any details?

Thx

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris,

Morales spent some time at 'Rockys' in Arizona. I think his friend Ruben Carbajal had something to do with it; maybe part owner or something.

The reason they gave for military rejection was an enlarged heart. I only have theories at the moment but needless to say it appears that Morales' phsyc profile was ideal for a new type of training/operative that spanned the end of the OSS and into the new CIA.

The other aspect of this is that it appeared he answered to no one. Sure he had superiors but he was autonomous, a force and power base all to itself.

FWIW.

James

Edited February 13, 2005 by James Richards

[Chris Cox]

well you hit the intelligence nail on the head. Indy but not really.

So Morales had a big heart. I guess these are the people needed in other aspects of military service.

Seriously tho' it is interesting how this acceptance rejection thing goes. How these fellows try and finally make the cut. Is it a test, like "show us what you can do first?" Some pre-enlist, some enter via ops and are made officers at sight. Some, perhaps Morales are too good to waste on a battlefield. The MO of this sorting is very interesting. Thanks.

[James Richards]

well you hit the intelligence nail on the head.  Indy but not really.

So Morales had a big heart.  I guess these are the people needed in other aspects of military service. 

Seriously tho' it is interesting how this acceptance rejection thing goes.  How these fellows try and finally make the cut.  Is it a test, like "show us what you can do first?"  Some pre-enlist, some enter via ops and are made officers at sight. Some, perhaps Morales are too good to waste on a battlefield.  The MO of this sorting is very interesting. Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christy,

I don't think there was anything wrong with Morales' heart at all. That reason for rejection only surfaced after his death and was offered by his brother who wasn't privvy to what David was doing at the time.

I think Morales being rejected was a cover story and that he was installed into a new training program during 1944. He was then placed back into society where he attended Arizona State and a college in Los Angeles. Here he was taught the ways of government and the like. One of his school friends went with Morales to join the military in 1944 and he was under the impression that Morales was accepted but next thing he knew, David is studying at Arizona State. Morales never did explain to him what happened.

In 1946, Morales' cover was acceptance into the army however he was being fast tracked through this Intelligence training where he was one of the first CIA operatives in the new Covert division which was formed in 1948.

Given that officially his military service began in 1946, and only eight years later he is prominent in a coup in Guatemala, suggests he was good at what he did.

James

Edited February 13, 2005 by James Richards

[Antti Hynonen]

James Richards Posted Feb 12 2005, 10:10 PM

  James,

I definitely agree. Weren't some of David Morales' friends and relatives from Arizona? I will be anxious to find out what your interviews come up with when you get ready to post them.

By the way, you have an excellent photographic collection that you have shared here. (Greg Kooyman)

Greg,

Thank you for the nice words. Arizona may play an important role in all of this. Morales was connected to Carl Hayden's brother and some shonky business deals may have been the result. Morales was also supposedly close with Barry Goldwater which is an area I am currently looking into.

Let's not forget that Morales' close associate during the covert years was Arizona resident Tom Clines. William Seymour was born in Montana but spent a lot of time in Arizona where he currently resides. That's another story for another thread but it plugs back into Morales and his influence over local politics.

FWIW.

James

Perhaps this ties in too: WC witness statement from Lee Bowers.

Mr. BALL - Did you notice any cars around there?

Mr. BOWERS - Yes; there were three cars that came in during the time from around noon until the time of the shooting.

Mr. BALL - Came in where?

Mr. BOWERS - They came into the vicinity of the tower, which was at the extension of Elm Street, which runs in front of the School Depository, 'and which there is no way out. It is not a through street to anywhere.

Mr. BALL - There is parking area behind the School Depository, between that building and your tower?

Mr. BOWERS - Two or three railroad tracks and a small amount of parking area for the employees.

Mr. BALL - And the first came along that you noticed about what time of day?

Mr. BOWERS - I do not recall the exact time, but I believe this was approximately 12:10, wouldn't be too far off.

Mr. BALL - And the car you noticed, when you noticed the car, where was it?

Mr. BOWERS - The car proceeded in front of the School Depository down across 2 or 3 tracks and circled the area in front of the tower, and to the west of the tower, and, as if he was searching for a way out, or was checking the area, and then proceeded back through the only way he could, the same outlet he came into.

Mr. BALL - The place where Elm dead ends?

Mr. BOWERS - That's right. Back in front of the School Depository was the only way he could get out. And I lost sight of him, I couldn't watch him.

Mr. BALL - What was the description of that car?

Mr. BOWERS - The first car was a 1959 Oldsmobile, blue and white station wagon with out-of-State license.

Mr. BALL - Do you know what State?

Mr. BOWERS - No; I do not. I would know it, I could identify it, I think, if I looked at a list.

Mr. BALL - And, it had something else, some bumper stickers?

Mr. BOWERS - Had a bumper sticker, one of which was a Goldwater sticker, and the other of which was of some scenic location, I think.Mr. BALL - And, did you see another car?

Mr. BOWERS - Yes, some 15 minutes or so after this, at approximately 12 o'clock, 20 to 12--I guess 12:20 would be close to it, little time differential there--but there was another car which was a 1957 black Ford, with one male in it that seemed to have a mike or telephone or something that gave the appearance of that at least.

Mr. BALL - How could you tell that?

Mr. BOWERS - He was holding something up to his mouth with one hand and he was driving with the other, and gave that appearance. He was very close to the tower. I could see him as he proceeded around the area.

Mr. BALL - What kind of license did that have?

Mr. BOWERS - Had a Texas license.

Mr. BALL - What did it do as it came into the area, from what street?

Mr. BOWERS - Came in from the extension of Elm Street in front of the School Depository.

Mr. BALL - Did you see it leave?

Mr. BOWERS - Yes; after 3 or 4 minutes cruising around the area it departed the same way. He did probe a little further into the area than the first car.

Mr. BALL - Did you see another car?

Mr. BOWERS - Third car, which entered the area, which was some seven or nine minutes before the shooting, I believe was a 1961 or 1962 Chevrolet, four-door Impala, white, showed signs of being on the road. It was muddy up to the windows, bore a similar out-of-state license to the first car I observed, occupied also by one white male. Mr. BALL - What did it do?

Mr. BOWERS - He spent a little more time in the area. He tried-he circled the area and probed one spot right at the tower in an attempt to get and was forced to back out some considerable distance, and slowly cruised down back towards the front of the School Depository Building.

Mr. BALL - Then did he leave?

Mr. BOWERS - The last I saw of him he was pausing just about in--just above the assassination site.

Mr. BALL - Did the car park, or continue on or did you notice?

Mr. BOWERS - Whether it continued on at that very moment or whether it pulled up only a short distance, I couldn't tell. I was busy.

Mr. BALL - How long was this before the President's car passed there?

Mr. BOWERS - This last car? About 8 minutes.

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Golwater sticker, out-of-state license plate and sticker of scenic attraction. Could the state be Arizona and the sticker a Grand Canyon sticker?

Hmmm....

[Steve Thomas]

Antti,

Golwater sticker, out-of-state license plate and sticker of scenic attraction. Could the state be Arizona and the sticker a Grand Canyon sticker?

FWIW, I once contacted the Automobile License Plate Collectors Association of America and asked them what state had that particular configuration - six black numbers, no letters, on a white background in 1963.

I was told that only one state had that configuration in 1963 - Virginia.

Steve Thomas