Firecracker

[Karl Kinaski]

Am I the only one, who is convinced that the first BUM was a firecracker thrown by a device, seen by Amos Euins, who described it as a "pipe", extending from the Oswald window?

A Firecracker, used to distracted attention and as a starting signal for the real shooters?

Quote WC testimony of Mrs Donald Baker

Mr. Liebeler.

As you went down Elm Street that you saw this thing hit the street--what did it look like when you saw it?

Mrs. Baker.

Well, as I said, I thought it was a firecracker. It looked just like you could see the sparks from it and I just thought it was a firecracker and I was thinking that there was somebody was fixing to get in a lot of trouble and we thought the kids or whoever threw it were down below or standing near the underpass or back up here by the sign.

c.quote

[Karl Kinaski]

This firecracker hit the pavement between the Queen Mary and the Johnson-car...it caused some SS agents ( of the Queen Mary) to look backwards , while Kennedy was hit in the neck from the front...(Altgens 6)...

KK

[Richard Hocking]

Mrs. Donald Baker is a signature witness in Dealey Plaza. Her testimony was clear and consistent.

Her placement of the "firecracker" or first bullet in the middle of the far lane, well behind the Limo raises serious questions of how a shooter in the "sniper's lair" could miss so badly.

She describes smelling gunsmoke after the second shot (just a few seconds after the first shot), which eliminates the SE 6th floor window of the TSBD being the source. She selects an area near the triple underpass as being the source of the sounds.

Mrs. Baker also distinguishes the first sound (described as a firecracker noise) from the second, which she described as a gunshot.

More support for Bang ............ Boom Boom.

[Paul Rigby]

Just before a freeway sign, the driver began to slow down the presidential limousine.

Suddenly, a shot came from the top of Elm St., now a half block in back of the President. A Secret Service agent in the Vice-President's follow-up car had raised his left hand out of the partly open left, rear window. A revolver was fired skyward.

The crowd's attention was distracted from the presidential limousine by the sudden explosion…

The Decoy Shot

As the motorcade approached Elm St., an amateur photographer focused his movie camera on the presidential limousine and the front of the depository building. His lens also caught the Vice-President's follow-up car, the third car behind the limousine. This was perhaps a minute before the first shot was fired. The Vice-President's follow-up car was approaching the left-hand turn into Elm St. when both of its rear doors opened, six to eight inches (Fig. 3-2). According to the film, no one got in or out of the car.

One witness, standing on the southeast corner of Elm and Houston Streets, saw the follow-up car's open doors. After it turned the corner, he "…heard the first report…" which he thought was a car's backfire. The Texas Highway Patrolman who was driving the Vice-President's car thought the shot "…appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice-President's car."

Many witnesses said that the first shot sounded like a "firecracker" or a "backfire" in the street.

Altgens' sixth photograph of those he took in Dealey Plaza (Fig. 3-3) tends to support the contention that someone in the motorcade fired a gun into the air at the intersection of Elm and Houston Streets, when the limousine was about 100 feet down Elm St.

Altgens' photograph, which was taken about three seconds after the decoy shot was fired, when enlarged (Fig. 3-4) shows Secret Service agent Warren W. Taylor, in the rear left seat, of the Vice-President's follow-up car. His arm is outside of the open car door; the configuration of his hand suggests he is holding a gun. Those people in the car immediately behind smelled gunpowder.

Altgens' photograph also shows Lyndon Johnson leaning forward apparently in the process of getting down at a point in time when others in the motorcade seem unaware of any danger (Fig. 3-5). One witness, who stood on the curb of Elm St. during the shooting, said, "wasn't that rather odd that Johnson was on the floor before the shot sounded?"

The Smell of Gunsmoke

In addition to the eyewitnesses and ear witnesses, there were also nose witnesses to the murder.

Those who smelled gunpowder at the scene of the shooting helped to pinpoint the source of the shots. Placed on a map (Fig. 3-7), they were within the path of the motorcade or near Elm St. The motorcade headed west down Elm St. into a modest breeze.

Motorcycle escort officer Billy J. Martin, riding one half car length from the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine, recalled, "You could smell the gunpowder…you knew he wasn't far away. When you're that close you can smell the powder burning, why you - you've got to be pretty close to them…you could smell the gunpowder…right there in the street."

“Nose” witnesses

Senator Ralph W. Yarborough rode in the second car behind the limousine. He smelled gunpowder in the street and said it clung to the car throughout the race to Parkland Hospital.

Two cars behind Yarborough was the Cabell car. Mrs. Cabell said that she "…was acutely aware of the odor of gunpowder." She added that Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also.

According to Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he "…very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up at the corner of Elm and Houston Streets."

Vergie Rackley stood in front of the depository building. "She recalled that after the second shot she smelled gunsmoke…"

At the time of the shots, patrolman Joe M. Smith moved from the intersection of Elm and Houston Streets toward the triple underpass. When interviewed at that time, he stated that he smelled gunpowder near the underpass.

Patrolman Earle V. Brown, stationed 100 yards west of the underpass, stated that he heard the shots and then smelled gunpowder as the car sped beneath him.

A police officer who was on the sixth floor of the depository shortly after the shooting failed to smell any gunpowder there.

One newspaper summed it up: "…seconds later the cavalcade was gone. The area still reeked with the smell of gunpowder." Shots from the sixth floor of the depository building would have caused no gunpowder smell in the street.

Fred T. Newcomb & Perry Adam. Murder From Within (Bloomington, In: AuthorHouse, 2011), chapter 3: Execution, 44, 50, 57-58

The fact that Triage Nurse Bertha Lozano smelled gunpowder as JFK and Connally were wheeled past her at Parkland implies that there was a firearm discharged in the limousine and that particulate matter was embedded in someone's clothing - otherwise she would not have smelled gunpowder.

Doug Horne to Bill Kelly

[Len Colby]

Am I the only one, who is convinced that the first BUM was a firecracker thrown by a device, seen by Amos Euins, who described it as a "pipe", extending from the Oswald window?

A Firecracker, used to distracted attention and as a starting signal for the real shooters?

Quote WC testimony of Mrs Donald Baker

Mr. Liebeler.

As you went down Elm Street that you saw this thing hit the street--what did it look like when you saw it?

Mrs. Baker.

Well, as I said, I thought it was a firecracker. It looked just like you could see the sparks from it and I just thought it was a firecracker and I was thinking that there was somebody was fixing to get in a lot of trouble and we thought the kids or whoever threw it were down below or standing near the underpass or back up here by the sign.

c.quote

This has to be the silliest post I've seen since the Cinzer circus came to a halt. Wouldn't it have been easier to have someone firing blanks? And if for some bizarre reason preferred to use a firecracker why drop it to the sidewalk? Can we all assume that despite extensive searches you were unable to find any other corroborating evidence?

[Mark Knight]

Firecrackers make more sense than you think, Mr. Colby. Firecrackers can be tossed by an adult, but the natural inclination is to blame it on a kid. And honestly, Len...in the South in the '60's, it was a lot easier to buy firecrackers without arousing suspicion than it was to purchase a starter's pistol [unless you were recognized as a coach of some sport] or some other device to fire blanks. And contrary to what you may have seen in cheap western movies, when a blank is fired, a wadding is expelled...an item that, when fired at close range, could injure innocent bystanders. AND...if the SS was doing its job...the person firing a blank would likely be shot and killed because of the similarity in appearance between a starter's pistol and an actual revolver.

So if you want the noise...and the sulfurous smell...of gunpowder, but enjoy living, using a firecracker makes a lot more sense than a blank fired from a pistol, starter's or otherwise.

[Karl Kinaski]

IMO one can figure out the time of the firecracker explosion between the Queen Mary and Johnsons car, on the Zapruder film: it is, when at the south -side of elm, little Rosemarie Willis stops running and

looks backwards. At that time, the Cabell car was still on Huston street. It is shortly before JFK is hit in the neck...

Since Hargis (who smelled gunpowder too) was a good deal in front of that explosion , there must have been another source of gunpowder-smell. Maybe the Umbrella weapon? (Causing the gunpowder smell on JFKs clothes: "nose" witness

Triage Nurse Bertha Lozano smelled gunpowder as JFK and Connally were wheeled past her at Parkland...that not necessarily implies that there was a firearm discharged in the limousine. That gunpowder matter could have come from the propelling charge of the little missile who caused the 3 t o 5 mm(sic) punctured wound in Kennedys neck...

KK

PS It was  Jarman who testified, he thought the first Bum came from down below on the street to his left ...while he located the next two explosions he heard directly above him...

Edited July 1, 2019 by Karl Kinaski

[Thomas Graves]

IMO one can figure out the time of the firecracker explosion between the Queen Mary and Johnsons car, on the Zapruder film: it is, when at the south -side of elm, little Rosemarie Willis stops running and

looks backwards. At that time, the Cabell car was still on Huston street. It is shortly before JFK is hit in the neck...

Since Hargis (who smelled gunpowder too) was a good deal in front of that explosion , there must have been another source of gunpowder-smell. Maybe the Umbrella weapon? (Causing the gunpowder smell on JFKs clothes: "nose" witness

Triage Nurse Bertha Lozano smelled gunpowder as JFK and Connally were wheeled past her at Parkland...that not necessarily implies that there was a firearm discharged in the limousine. That gunpowder matter could have come from the propelling charge of the little missile who caused the 3 t o 5 mm(sic) punctured wound in Kennedys neck...

KK

PS I think it was one of the three "5th floor guys", Yarman, Norman or Williams who testified, he thought the first Bum came from down below on the street...while he located the next two explosions he heard directly above him...

Rosemarie Willis has said that she distinctly remembers hearing four shots and thinks that there may have been as many as six. Is is interesting that she reacted (by stopping running and turning to her right) so early on in the Z-film. Maybe the first shot she heard really was a firecracker.

--Tommy

[Paul Baker]

Am I the only one, who is convinced that the first BUM was a firecracker thrown by a device, seen by Amos Euins, who described it as a "pipe", extending from the Oswald window?

Pure, pathetic and laughable nonsense. Of course you won't be the only one to believe it.

A Firecracker, used to distracted attention and as a starting signal for the real shooters?

Why didn't those clever conspirators simply arrange for a shot to be fired from the rifle that they'd placed up there in order to frame Oswald? Because, obviously, that would have been just plain stupid. It made much more sense to launch a firecracker using a pipe-like device which would hopefully be mistaken for the barrel of a rifle just like the one that those clever conspirators had placed there in order to frame Oswald. Luckily for them, no-one noticed that "Oswald" was busy launching a firecracker from a pipe-like device when, according to the WC, he should have been busy shooting the President.

[Karl Kinaski]

Oh, what a surprise: Lone nut prayer mill Pauly: I missed you...your input of "common sense" is always a pleasure...

SCNR

Edited July 3, 2012 by Karl Kinaski

[Paul Baker]

Oh, what a surprise: Lone nut prayer mill Pauly: I missed you...your input of "common sense" is always a pleasure...

SCNR

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in there somewhere?

[Len Colby]

Firecrackers make more sense than you think, Mr. Colby. Firecrackers can be tossed by an adult, but the natural inclination is to blame it on a kid. And honestly, Len...in the South in the '60's, it was a lot easier to buy firecrackers without arousing suspicion than it was to purchase a starter's pistol [unless you were recognized as a coach of some sport] or some other device to fire blanks.

Oh yeah I'm sure the CIA/MIC etc. would have been unable scare up to "a starter's pistol or some other device to fire blanks" in any case blanks can be fired from many normal guns.

and contrary to what you may have seen in cheap western movies, when a blank is fired, a wadding is expelled...an item that, when fired at close range, could injure innocent bystanders.

And since it was being fired from a sixth-floor window no one guilty or innocent; plotter, patsy or bystander would have been “at close range”. And if you think the amount of gunpowder in a firecracker would have done the job only minimal wadding would have been necessary.

AND...if the SS was doing its job...the person firing a blank would likely be shot and killed because of the similarity in appearance between a starter's pistol and an actual revolver.

As opposed to someone pointing a rifle barrel like pipe out of a window and shooting a firecracker out of it. And as Paul pointed out why not just shoot a real bullet instead of following the Rube Goldberg like scenario of i) having someone point a rifle barrel like pipe out of a window and shooting a firecracker out of it ii) planting a real rifle at the scene iii) faking other evidence to make it appear the shot was fire from that location .Also starters pistols don’t look like real guns.

So if you want the noise...and the sulfurous smell...of gunpowder, but enjoy living, using a firecracker makes a lot more sense than a blank fired from a pistol, starter's or otherwise.

Wrong for reasons stated above

[Mark Knight]

Len, you're making assumptions again.

Show me where I agreed with the premise of a firecracker being expelled from a pipe on the sixth floor of the TSBD. You can't do it, because I didn't post it...because I don't believe that happened. I never mentioned a blank being fired from the sixth floor, either. In fact, in this thread, I never [previous to this post] mentioned the sixth floor at all.

In the crowd below, from the sidewalk, it's logical that someone might have tossed a firecracker. Makes much more sense than a starter's pistol with blanks...which most likely would have gotten someone killed, when/if the SS had reacted to that.

So you're constructing straw men here, Len. Don't put words on my mouth, or in my posts, that didn't come from me. Just because you ASSUMED I was talking about something occurring on/from the sixth floor doesn't mean that's what I was saying or thinking. I simply posted what I posted. What you read INTO it is YOUR problem. You're so quick to argue that, in cases such as this, you're arguing against a statement I didn't make.

Why did I expect better from you? Silly me.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Mark Knight

[Rodney Rivers]

I guess out of the hundreds of theories, the firecracker scenario would only make sense in the 'fake assassination' theory. You know, the one where some military suit said that the plan was to fake an assassination of JFK and blame it on Cuba so he would invade. Only that someone got wind of the fake plot and used it to setup a real plot and murder him. I don't believe that theory but I guess firecracker may work in that one.

But isn't it true that most people even the ones in the motorcade thought the first shot sounded like a car backfire?

I'm sure there are people on here who use to be in military operations during those years or even in the 70s/80s. I've always wondered how these things work with slight of hand. When you setup a hit, such as this one, do you use a big loud gun to make the most amount of noise to fool the public while the other assassins use some kind of silencer to take care of the job while everyone else's attention is on the loud gun?

Is there information out there on CIA assassination techniques during the 50s/60s/70s?

[Len Colby]

Len, you're making assumptions again.

Show me where I agreed with the premise of a firecracker being expelled from a pipe on the sixth floor of the TSBD. You can't do it, because I didn't post it...because I don't believe that happened. I never mentioned a blank being fired from the sixth floor, either. In fact, in this thread, I never [previous to this post] mentioned the sixth floor at all.

In the crowd below, from the sidewalk, it's logical that someone might have tossed a firecracker. Makes much more sense than a starter's pistol with blanks...which most likely would have gotten someone killed, when/if the SS had reacted to that.

So you're constructing straw men here, Len. Don't put words on my mouth, or in my posts, that didn't come from me. Just because you ASSUMED I was talking about something occurring on/from the sixth floor doesn't mean that's what I was saying or thinking. I simply posted what I posted. What you read INTO it is YOUR problem. You're so quick to argue that, in cases such as this, you're arguing against a statement I didn't make.

Why did I expect better from you? Silly me.

I questioned KK's 'theory' you defended it, since you didn't express any doubt about his wild speculation it was reasonable to assume you accepted it as reasonable. KK placed the firecracker launcher in the snipers nest there was no reason to believe you placed the hypothetical blank shooter elsewhere. Having a distractor, whether he was using a firecracker or blank firing weapon on the sidewalk would be even dumber than placing him on the 6th floor of TSBD. It's absurd to criticize someone for misunderstanding you when you failed to make yourself clear.